One’s level of participation

[kuurt]

Do y’all feel like the amount of a kid’s participation (as opposed to hesitation or protest), or physical arousal during the sexual acts somehow makes them more complicit or responsible for what took place? I am really, really, really having a hard time figuring this issue out for myself, and what it all means. It is so difficult to even think about this...I don’t want to think about it...but I just can’t stop obsessing over *my roll* in everything that took place. It feels like it might be easier if I couldn’t remember any of the gross things I did, or any of the sensations or bodily reactions that I had. Do y’all see where I’m coming from with these questions and thoughts? Does anyone have any opinions on this?

 

[Jacob S]

You were a child. it's not your fault and having pleasurable physical sensations doesn't change culpability. You survived through a situation that you should not have had to deal with. You were not responsible.

 

[kuurt]

What if the perps weren’t originally planning to continue to do sexual things, or weren’t planning on doing more types of sexual things, but when they saw a willingness to “play along” at first, or some arousal they took that as a green light to go forward with things? If that’s what happened, then surely I played some roll in the perversion of the situation?

 

[Strangeways]

Do y’all feel like the amount of a kid’s participation (as opposed to hesitation or protest), or physical arousal during the sexual acts somehow makes them more complicit or responsible for what took place?

No. No. One million times no. A person's body does what it is designed to do, even if that person is terrified. It means their body is working. It DOES NOT mean owner of said body is complicit in any way.

What if the perps weren’t originally planning to continue to do sexual things, or weren’t planning on doing more types of sexual things, but when they saw a willingness to “play along” at first, or some arousal they took that as a green light to go forward with things?

There is zero, none, nada excuse for an adult EVER to have ANY KIND of sexual relations with a child no matter what the child did or said. There is a reason why we have laws against this.

On the contrary, it's very likely that the adult knew the child's body would react the way that it did, even though he child was terrified, and use that as an excuse to say that the child "wanted it." The child did not want it. The adult exploited the child.

If that’s what happened, then surely I played some roll in the perversion of the situation?

You absolutely, completely, totally did not. You had NO role in your own rape, except as victim. This is entirely on your perp. There is NO scenario that makes rape of a child OK. Ever.

 

[KMCINVA]

Do y’all feel like the amount of a kid’s participation (as opposed to hesitation or protest), or physical arousal during the sexual acts somehow makes them more complicit or responsible for what took place? I am really, really, really having a hard time figuring this issue out for myself, and what it all means. It is so difficult to even think about this...I don’t want to think about it...but I just can’t stop obsessing over *my roll* in everything that took place. It feels like it might be easier if I couldn’t remember any of the gross things I did, or any of the sensations or bodily reactions that I had. Do y’all see where I’m coming from with these questions and thoughts? Does anyone have any opinions on this?

Kuurt

I believe we have guilt for various reasons. For me it is why did I go back and the arousal was it a sign I enjoyed the abuse? It took years of therapy, support groups and the kindness and compassion of many to accept I was a child, I was groomed and the abuser being a priest made it difficult as priests in those days were revered, feared and respected. Who would they believe, the abuser said everyone would believe him and not me. I knew it was wrong and kept silent.

Today I know my silence was misguided because so many people have rallied around me, given me support, hope and love. Yes, there have been the naysayers and I have come to accept their denial is their issue to deal with and not mine. I feel this way about the abuser, the guilt and shame I carried was his shame and guilt that was projected on me.

Remembering the details of the abuse was needed so I could fully process the abuse. It also allowed me to see the child within me carried the guilt and shame whereas "me" knew it was not my fault. These divergent emotions and beliefs wreaked havoc on my life causing syncope, dissociation, guilt and shame. I had to reconcile "me" with the child within. It was painful and it took many years. I know the arousal was physical and not emotional or a sign of accepting the abuse. As a child I did not see or understand arousal is not always emotional but it is always physical.

I hope you can reconcile the child within and "you". It is a process and we each approach it differently and heal differently.

Kevin

 

[AlexBoyd]

No.

Many of us struggle with this scenario, but it's crucial to remember and acknowledge that a child can't make fully informed decisions about adult situations. You were a child. That was your role.

 

[Troy86]

I so relate to what you say. I have always struggled with the guilt and shame and embarrassment of my participation. No matter how many times I have been told it wasn’t my fault, it’s always that deep down nagging feeling it was my fault. Getting past these feelings is the route to recovery.

 

[BelovedSon]

****Trigger***

I have been obsessing about my participation. My perp made me give him oral. I have wondered the last week whether I moved my head or did he move himself. I think behind my obsession is concern about culpability. If I moved then somehow it was my fault and I was actively participating. I am frustrated that I didn't fight back.

 

[AlexBoyd]

****Trigger***

I have been obsessing about my participation. My perp made me give him oral. I have wondered the last week whether I moved my head or did he move himself. I think behind my obsession is concern about culpability. If I moved then somehow it was my fault and I was actively participating. I am frustrated that I didn't fight back.

Greg,
To put things in perspective, would you say the things you are thinking to the rest of us here? Would you tell us that we are somehow responsible if we weren't completely passive? Would you tell us that we are somehow culpable if we didn't fight back? I doubt you would. Try to be compassionate with yourself.

 

[Esterio]

Others use pleasure/guilt to control and groom you.
They may start by making you feel special.
They may fill proper needs you have that aren't being filled at home.
They make sure it feels good at first. They make sure your body responds. They may say "Look you are enjoying it" "This is how we show love" "I won't tell what you did"

That is primary abusers MO. that really hurts to read

 

[BelovedSon]

No.

Many of us struggle with this scenario, but it's crucial to remember and acknowledge that a child can't make fully informed decisions about adult situations. You were a child. That was your role.

Thank you. I know you are right. I am quick to dole out compassion to others but not so much myself. I have to confess that when I read your response I thought "But Alex, you don't understand..." I know you do understand.

 

[F.A.]

Do y’all feel like the amount of a kid’s participation (as opposed to hesitation or protest), or physical arousal during the sexual acts somehow makes them more complicit or responsible for what took place? I am really, really, really having a hard time figuring this issue out for myself, and what it all means. It is so difficult to even think about this...I don’t want to think about it...but I just can’t stop obsessing over *my roll* in everything that took place. It feels like it might be easier if I couldn’t remember any of the gross things I did, or any of the sensations or bodily reactions that I had. Do y’all see where I’m coming from with these questions and thoughts? Does anyone have any opinions on this?

I was abused by them, I did not abuse them. I was not complicit in my own victimization I was a helpless little kid.

 

[AlexBoyd]

Thank you. I know you are right. I am quick to dole out compassion to others but not so much myself. I have to confess that when I read your response I thought "But Alex, you don't understand..." I know you do understand.

I understand all too well and spent years wondering the same things you are wondering about now.

It's one of the most hateful forms of abuse when a perp makes his victim believe he is to blame. I was told that I had been teasing him, practically asking him to do it (I was six years old when it started). Eventually, he made me literally ask him to do it. So trust me, I understand the particular kind of anguish you are experiencing.

When I first starting coming to MS, letting go of some of that guilt was my biggest challenge. The men here helped me with that, asking me why I held myself to a higher standard than others. On a purely logical level I can laugh at the notion of a six-year-old being a sexual tease, but on an emotional level believing that I was one had become part of my identity and THAT is something that takes much work to mitigate.

Please know that my response above was not meant to dismiss what you are experiencing, just an effort to put it in perspective.

 

[BelovedSon]

@AlexBoyd no worries, that is how I took it. You and the others here have a unique position to speak truth to me in a way others can't. Thanks for sharing your experiences so me and others can heal.

 

[kuurt]

There are different ways Abusers groom their victims so they can continue the abuse.

Some use fear and force. "I will kill you" "I will hurt your family" "I will kill your dog"
"If you don't let me do it, I will do it to your brother"

Others use pleasure/guilt to control and groom you.
They may start by making you feel special.
They may fill proper needs you have that aren't being filled at home.
They make sure it feels good at first. They make sure your body responds. They may say "Look you are enjoying it" "This is how we show love" "I won't tell what you did"

Both types of grooming are harmful.
But the guilt/pleasure grooming is often more effective. We believe it even as adults.

Holy shit, I can’t believe it, I’m in tears reading this (and all of the posts - thank y’all for taking the time to respond). That’s almost exactly what he said to me in the beginning phases. He told me, “see, look how much you like it,” and that it was good to like it. And then eventually he showed me how much he liked it, too. And he said not to worry, he wouldn’t tell anyone that I liked it. That no one else would understand and we would both get in trouble (and I believed that to MY CORE. I still feel that strong belief). And that meant I could never tell, even when things got worse and worse.

I hate remembering this stuff so much. It physically hurts to remember.

 

[kuurt]

It’s hard to read y’all’s helpful responses where you say it could never be the kid’s fault, and not immediately think that of course it was none of y’all’s fault, but it still was my fault. I don’t know how to explain it...

 

[SetecAstronomy]

Holy shit, I can’t believe it, I’m in tears reading this (and all of the posts - thank y’all for taking the time to respond). That’s almost exactly what he said to me in the beginning phases. He told me, “see, look how much you like it,” and that it was good to like it. And then eventually he showed me how much he liked it, too. And he said not to worry, he wouldn’t tell anyone that I liked it. That no one else would understand and we would both get in trouble (and I believed that to MY CORE. I still feel that strong belief). And that meant I could never tell, even when things got worse and worse.

I hate remembering this stuff so much. It physically hurts to remember.

I got an erection so he said I must want it, and if anyone found out I’d be labeled gay and they would hate me. It worked. I kept the secret for over 35 years. It also believed it to my core, even when I knew it wasn’t rational.

 

[Jim1104]

I tried to take some blame, but my t quickly refuted that. I hd neither the physical nor emotional ability to fight back when I was 12.

 

[C. E.]

Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.

Mark Twain

That quote has helped me a lot with this very issue. Never forget that our intrinsic nature was immutable. If you are a flower and someone sneaks in the garden, plucks you, and puts you in a vase, do you blame yourself for the fragrance you still provide, for drinking up the water fed to you, for continuing to be precisely what attracted us to be so culled? As flowers, it was not our choice to be plucked. That we were what we were does not assign to us the blame for the devastation that resulted. That blame remains squarely and solely with the one who pulled us from our roots - and with the enablers and silent witnesses who let it happen.

 

[Inturn]

My grooming was much more subtle and with implied (or perhaps I perceived them as being as such) threats of retaliation and that no one would believe me if I told them about it. Like Jim1104 I did not have the ability to fight back between 10 and 12. About a year later my second instance of abuse began- different abusers and much closer to me in age... neighbourhood boys. I used to believe this was a consensual thing; I had my first with-other-person orgasm during this abuse. As I look back on it I was in fact saying NO inside of my mind but I could not stop it nor escape from it. I blamed myself for that abuse and was so ashamed that I got pleasure from it. The shame of that is sometimes more painful then the first period of abuse which was by an adult in a more coerced situation. I have since acknowledged what happened and am accepting none of it was my fault. My T said I submitted to the second period of abuse because of the fear experienced from the first period of abuse. So much of who I am now is because of fear and shame of believing I was a willing participant in some of my abuse, that I 'got off' during it.