Using old issues to mask others. Possible Triggers

Using old issues to mask others. Possible Triggers

AndyS87

Registrant
I didn't intend for this to be this long when I sat down to write it, but I guess I had a lot to get off my chest as I type this back in some two hours later. Trigger warnings in advance - I do talk about how I was abused. No really explicit detail, but enough that I thought it'd be best to post a trigger warning.

When I first started posting here about ten years ago, I was just finally coming to terms that the sexual abuse I experienced from my cousin when I was a child wasn't "normal". I had finally decided to go to therapy for it because I wanted to move on in my life, feel "normal", have relationships, and was fixated over trying to prove 100% without a shadow of a doubt what my sexual orientation was.

About three years later, I was done with therapy. Many of the initial issues I went in for had resolved themselves. For a kid who had been so worried about my orientation, I had two women fighting over me less than a week after my last therapy session. Life felt awesome at that moment. But then, time went on. I still never dated or had much of an interest. I still occasionally found myself questioning my sexuality, and I still found myself on here posting my thoughts in a very cyclical fashion.

Now in 2018, I have realized an enormous amount of issues at hand that I didn't deal with or even realize, the sexual abuse being only part of it.

I did not have healthy role models when it came to relationships - my parents were not married happily, and my sister and I were subject to their fights regularly, as well as the fallout from it.

I was subject to constant emotional abuse by my sister as a child - my parents still to this day both minimize it as "just normal sibling stuff". The only times my sister was nice to me growing up was if she wanted something. She would tell me things like I was a failure at life, nobody ever really wanted to hang out with me, if I was ever married I'd be an abusive husband, I was a burden to the family and just made everyone in it upset, I should kill myself, etc.

If I was in my room listening to music, the music was too loud and she'd start a fight over it. If I was trying to play video games, she HAD to use whatever TV I was using, even though we had two other ones in the house. Playing guitar? Too noisey. Working out? I looked "fat" and "gross" and I'd never be a good athlete (I've been involved in kickboxing and judo now for 15 years - I may not be a stellar athlete, but I'm not exactly out of shape). I drove too slow. My breathing was too loud. My chewing was too noisey. You get the drift. My parents saw this happen every. single.fucking.day. I would say for 18 years, but we probably weren't having conversations at birth, so I'll say for 14 or 15 years. They did nothing. I have to assume they didn't know what to do about it, but again, they tell me to this day it was "just normal sibling stuff", so maybe they did truly believe that.

She would frequently kick me in the crotch when we were in middle school, knowing that if I hit her back I'd end up getting yelled at by our parents. She would get sent to her room and "spoken to", make a half hearted apology, and that would be the end of it. If I ever did anything to protect myself, I got berated, told I needed to go to therapy (ironically, the guy told my mom and sister they needed to get off my case - not surprisingly, they didn't) or go "talk to the priest", etc. My father actually threw me across a room once.

She'd try to either steal from me directly or con me into splitting birthday or christmas gifts for other relatives, and then not paying her fair share for them. She'd take the car we shared and use all the gas, then try to make me pay for it. That's hard for me to deal with now, as she's changed markedly for the better and sincerely apologized for what she put me through. We were just kids, but it was constant from elementary school all the way through high school. We even shared an apartment for a while in our mid twenties, and I was astounded by how little she had changed back then.

My mother was also fairly manipulative and emotionally explosive (I think probably owing to her unhappy marriage at the time). She would tell me how to talk if I was having an argument with somebody, and to remain calm, how to be diplomatic, etc. That actually worked fantastically - I am pretty good at it now. The only issue is that if I was arguing with her and tried to remain the same way, she would explode on me. Eventually, I'd end up yelling back. I tried to help her get the house ready for spring one year, and the deck broke. 20 minutes of being screamed at - not my fault at all, the wood was dried out and brittle, I was leaning on it to help me get a hold of a tiki torch, and it broke. She would tell me that she didn't know what to do with my sister, and I'd recommend that she try and do other things she did with me to keep me in line. Eventually she'd end up screaming at me. I lost my temper once with her after these exchanges and nearly tore the door off a dishwasher. She tried to grab me, and I took her arm off my shoulder and told her to keep her hands off me (she never hit me, ever, but at the time...). She immediately called my martial arts instructor to tell me I was attacking her. He sat me down to chew me out the next time I was in - I just told him what had happened and he understood, but she would pull that shit all the time. Tell me how to handle something, get mad when I did exactly what she had told me to do, and then attempt to take away the things I enjoyed or that acted as an escape for me.

When I was VERY young, my parents would often scold me or punish me if I stood up for myself. I was patient in dealing with my sister (also my twin), but when I had enough I would get, as they termed it, "violent", meaning I would shove her away or try to restrain her. I was big for my age until high school as well, so whenever I interacted with other kids who treated me in the same way, I was always scolded harshly for reacting. This caused me to learn to not stand up for myself.

Taking my inability to stand up for myself a step further, I was the "weird" kid at school, and was bullied or excluded (and we all know the favorite nicknames for the excluded kids - more on that in a bit). Where some children who deal with this can escape, when I went home I was just picked on even more by my sister, who would actively seek me out to harass me, as I already said. I didn't make it easy on myself either - I was always trying to be the funny kid so I could gain acceptance from somebody, but instead I really think I just annoyed the shit out of my classmates and came off as really, really awkward, so I wasn't too popular. There were girls at school who would ask me if I wanted to go out on a date - they were upperclassmen girls who knew my sister, and I knew they were teasing me. Girls in my own grade wouldn't speak to me at all - in retrospect though, while that may have added on to already feeling like I was repellant to women, I am fully aware that the way I acted back then, cry for help that it may have been, was not helping me AT ALL. I see it in my own students now, but guidance and student support services are WAY more responsive now than they were back then, so...

my impression of women were that they only ever treated you kindly when they needed you to do something. Otherwise, they'd either go out of their way to nag you (though as an educator now, I kind of understand the nagging with some kids), try to purposely go out of their way to make you feel lower than dirt if they didn't need something from you, try to use you for money, or just try to purposely manipulate you into doing all kinds of crazy shit. Long story short, as much as I'd like to be in a relationship, I don't trust most women and can't find it in me to believe they'd actually see anything in me except as somebody to try and manipulate and control, and I'm terrified I'll end up stuck in a relationship I can't get out of that will totally rob me of any independence I have and will deprive me of anything that makes me happy or brings me enjoyment.

Take all that, then add in the abuse by my cousin. Again, he's only 3 years older than me. When it started, he couldn't have been older than 7 or 8. I know for a fact now that my mother's side of the family had a "weird" uncle, who was pretty much a child molester. I never asked, but my cousin now is pretty screwed up, and I remember him talking about how a lot of the stuff he would do with me was from a "friend of his with gray hair". I will never know for sure, but I suspect that's who he was talking about. Anyways, I always had a general feeling that what was going on between the two of us was something that wasn't supposed to be going on, but in contrast to how the rest of my family treated me, he was a close friend and an older brother of sorts. The abuse began with exposure and, for lack of a better word, "sword fighting" - nothing out of the ordinary for kids as young as we were, but it got to the point where he decided that that would be our "handshake", where every time we were together for family functions we'd go off and that'd be our official version of "Hey, how've you been"? From there it got progressively stranger - I had bunkbeds, but when he slept over he'd want to be in the same bed as me. He had me try oral on him - I didn't really want to, but I tried it out. Nothing happened when I tried it on him, I didn't see the point, and I kept telling him it didn't make any sense to me until he said I didn't have to keep going. Then he wanted to try it on me - again, didn't see the point, nothing happened, and I think he eventually realized I didn't particularly care for it or enjoy it, so he stopped. To me, at least in retrospect, that hits the extreme far end of "kids experimenting cause they're kids" and starts crossing the line into abuse. Things got weirder though.

As time went on, he began bringing anatomy books with him for "school", or had encyclopedias. Every time he was over, I ended up hanging out with him. He'd show me the diagrams of the male and female reproductive systems, diagrams of sex, talked about how people had sex, ejaculation, what puberty was and how it meant you were becoming a man and could have sex with women, etc. etc. etc. Never said anything about gay sex, and at that time, all I knew about gay people was that there were a few of them who went to church at my mom's church, and I thought it was kind of silly for two men to be married, because in my 8 or 9 year old mind, you were friends with boys and married girls. Even I had had a kindergarten and first grade girlfriend (we were of course supposed to be married, at least according to us, but her family moved).

Eventually, I think when I was in either 3rd or 4th grade, a bunch of us cousins were sitting around, and he said, "So who wants to have sex?" I had spent all this time learning from him that sex was between men and women, but I didn't realize I had basically been groomed. I don't even know if HE consciously knew he was grooming me, but there ya have it. He tried to anally penetrate me, but I remember he didn't because I told him I thought it wasn't gonna work and didn't want to do it anymore. He had me try it on him, but I was an elementary school student and didn't get erections, so that wasn't going to work. That concluded that episode and we went about more normal family stuff.

There was one more time after that where he told me that he had finally figured out how to ejaculate and wanted to show me. At this point, I think we've already established that although child me knew there was something not quite right going on, I didn't bother arguing because I knew eventually he'd end up just convincing me, but I do seem to recall saying stuff like "yeah if you get caught we're both going to get in a lot of trouble and this doesn't seem worth it". Dude ended up masturbating in front of me to completion. Weirdly even with all the other shit he'd done, I think that was maybe the most traumatic moment of those 4-5 years of abuse. I was jealous that, at least according to him, he was a man and I wasn't. He could get an erection, I couldn't.

Today, I fill out tests for kids who show "overly sexualized behavior" if I have to make a DCF referral for work. In retrospect, I look at myself after that episode and think, "How the hell did people not notice anything?!" I became obsessed with sex. I wanted to be able to do what he had done, but thought he was kind of a perv, so I didn't want to exactly mimic what he had done. A few years later when I finally figured things out, I felt guilty because I thought what I was doing was weird, since he had done the same thing. Some people's first orgasms, they think about members of the same or opposite sexes. I just tired to mimic what my cousin had done down to the most exact detail I could. Tried to stand in the same spot in the room as he did, tried to use mirrors to re-create my perspective when it happened so I could make sure I was mimicing everything as exactly as possible...it always struck me as weird, but I figured it was just my thing. It wasn't until years later that I read a Joe Kort article about how many sexual abuse victims attempt to recreate their abuse to gain control over something they had no control over. Talk about an eye opener! That article is what finally convinced me to go to therapy and EMDR for my abuse, after which my sexual behavior had changed entirely. It was a profound lesson in how abuse can "hijack" our own sexual behaviors or preferences, and revealed to me that literally my entire sexuality had been based on compulsions from day one.

The porn I watched was either close up videos of heterosexual sex which recalled the magazines, encyclopedias, and diagrams he had shown me, or it was people masturbating, which is what I had watched him do. It wasn't until the end of high school that I actually got some attention from women and I realized, inhibited as I was, that I really liked that attention, but by then I was all sorts of mixed up.

Anyway, going back to the abuse and my childhood, the problem for me was that later on in school that year (this was 4th grade), they decided to teach us about HIV and AIDS in health class. They told us that you could get HIV/AIDS from sharing blood, needles, or that gay men got it. I remember telling my friend on the bus I didn't understand how that was possible, because sex was something that happened between men and women. My friend then told me that men could do it with each other too, and I promptly freaked right the fuck out, because that sounded exactly like what my cousin had been doing to me or trying to get me to do to him. I didn't realize how important that moment was - I was not a popular kid, and other kids at school, even that young, would say things like, "dude you're so gay" or "get out of the way faggot", etc. I didn't pay attention at first, because in my mind, it didn't make any sense to be called gay. After talking to my friend though, I became TERRIFIED that people would find out what happened, I'd end up being branded, and for whatever reason I'd be a social outcast blah blah blah.

At dinner that night, I wasn't eating, which was rare, because I was a chunky kid when I was young. Parents asked me if I was ok, and I burst into tears and told them everything. My dad was ready to kill my cousin. My mom was like, "I'm gonna have to make some phone calls". In the end, my Aunt was pretty much in denial and so my mom just said, "Just don't be alone with him, don't let him touch you anywhere inappropriate, etc". Of course, the next time the families were together I told him that I spilled the beans, and our relationship was markedly different after that.

The rest of the story is typical male survivor stuff - I was pretty confused about my sexual orientation for a while, but any time in life I've been in situations where I could be sexual with somebody, I've always went with women, and it's always made me feel 1000% times better about myself. Like a lot of male survivors though, questioning my identity led to me to looking at gay porn for a time, and then wondering constantly if maybe I was really gay. Close friends I grew up with who are gay and know my entire story don't see it. I've been to three different therapists for PTSD, relationship issues, and anxiety disorders. All three of them have counseled gay clients and don't see it either. The anxiety specialist did note that I am prone to a certain type of OCD called Purely Obsessional OCD, where I become obsessive over certain things and go through mental rituals.

I did this with confusion about my sexual orientation, where I would watch gay porn and straight porn to see if I "reacted" the same. I'd go out and spend all my time thinking "did I find that girl attractive? What about that guy?" If anything slightly implicating that I wasn't absolutely 100% heterosexual happened to me, I would obsess over and try to prove definitively what my sexual orientation was for months, which only further fuels doubts, which makes the whole thing worse.

Somebody posted a cycle of addiction on here once and I was astounded with how similar it was to the routines I would go through. Basically, I realized it wasn't the abuse itself, but the irrational fear of being labeled as gay BECAUSE of the abuse that set so many of my behavioral patterns.

My cousin was once my closest friend, but without me being aware of it, our relationship was sexual. When I was younger, I assumed that's how most male friendships operated, and I assumed anybody who wanted to be friends with me wanted the same stuff to happen that my cousin did. I was lucky that I have extremely close friends who basically went "yeah, that's not really a thing you have to do/way you have to behave for your friends". Looking back now, I realize I was inappropriately socialized that way by my interaction with my cousin, and didn't get a chance to discover my innate desires on my own. A large part of that was what drove my questioning of my sexuality, until I realized I was simply doing what I was groomed to do.

Out of therapy, I have gotten closer to discovering my innate sexuality. I fell hard for one of my best friends sisters. She was home on break, and I had never noticed her before. After all, you get used to thinking "oh that's just so and so's younger sister". Suddenly, she grew up. Then she started flirting with me - I think just for fun on her end, but I was suckered in. We're still friends, but we both agreed the dynamic between my friend and my relationship with him and the rest of the family would tremendously complicate things. She lives several states away now, so that's a dead issue. There was another girl in grad school - this was the first time I recall feeling magnetically drawn to somebody. We flirted a lot, but she'd eventually keep distance. Three months later she was married - none of us even knew she was engaged at the time. Missed opportunities...anyways...

By losing my relationship with my cousin, anybody who wanted to be my friend pretty thoroughly astounded me - my opinion of myself was really that low. Once in 6th grade we were asked to write about our heroes for an assignment in english class. I chose my best friend of two year simply because he had approached me wanting to be friends and was still my friend two years later (still my best friend to this day).

So, the sexual abuse part was just the most obvious layer of the onion that is my state of mental health. It's really a giant knot of the sexual abuse, dysfunctional sexuality, emotional abuse, a TON of social rejection, and very low self esteem.

My mother still can't accept what happened - she, despite, knowing what happened, will say, "He's my nephew, what do you want me to say or do?" I don't know, stand up for and be supportive of your son? She even tried to talk me out of leaving my therapist to go to one she referred people to - I didn't though, and I'm glad. Same thing with the emotional abuse - both my parents will say, "That was just normal sibling stuff". I finally realized my parents have been minimizing these traumas, and turn leading me to minimize them, because they can't cope with the damage I've suffered from these things. That makes them feel like they're guilty, or did something wrong that they can't fix.

It took me 10 years to realize all this. 10 years to realize that my aversion to relationships is because I believe that I'm somehow broken, believe that I am inherently undesirable (even if people tell me I'm not), find myself uninteresting, can't fathom anybody staying with me voluntarily, feel that now I'm too old and awkward to date, don't like one night stands because it's difficult for me to have sex with somebody who I don't know or don't trust 100% (I wonder if they are using their feminine charms to manipulate me), and have NEVER approached women as I automatically assume I will be bothering them or coming off as "creepy". I gradually turned myself more or less emotionally numb and walled off between 7th and 10th grade, because there was nowhere I could vent and nothing I could do without catching shit for it from my sister or my family. Easier to be numb, then. Now that I'm older and wiser though, I can't figure out how to undo that.

The real bear here is that the sexual abuse and confusion over my orientation? I ALWAYS go back to it and analyze it and pick it apart for answer, because it distracts me from having to deal with these other difficult emotions and circumstances, and it's become familiar. When I finished EMDR all those years back, my therapist said, "I'd like to see you start to develop some positive relationships now". I also remember her saying that something what we come in the door for is only a step on a much longer path. That's where I'm at now, but when I finished therapy I remember thinking "I just want peace and to avoid having to suffer or be hurt". There's a part of me that doesn't want to go back and have to do all this over again, but if I don't, I'll stay where I'm at, and that's not really want to do either. If you've read all this, thank you for your time.
 
Hi Andy, your resilience is apparent, that you show/ed hope in the face of derision and bullying is, to me, a sign of survival mode. Which is what I work on, and by watching Joe Kort and discussing this so well here, it's clear to me you're exploring it.

I found Pete Walker to be the most enlightened for me to discern the issues of survival mode. I've also read Janina Fisher and Bessel Van Der Kolk, plus a workbook about dissociation on my way to discovering these things in me.

I like Pete Walker because he introduced fawn mode, which no other has, and I relate to it.

Pete Walker: Fawn Mode

I also have looked at his "inner and outer critic".

Joe Kort helped me realize, like you, to look at men and women and decide whom I'm attracted. I am fine with gay and trans friends, not worried about that, but, do I fit with either Bi or Gay orientation? I have found that I think I'm hetero. Sure, doubt was there, but the Joe Kort videos help a lot.

Obsessing isn't wrong, and my therapist would ask me, what's wrong if you're gay? I'd say, well, nothing really, except I've spent my whole life hetero. So... yeah, that would be confusing.

I've let that drop because I'm in therapy, and have a lot of work to do. A lot of it bullying and other. I write a lot about it in these Forums. I like these long posts, they give enough background and information to ponder what you're getting to. I see, there at the end, it's therapy.

I think therapy is a lifetime, and I hope that's not a negative to state? I'm 56, and waited until I was 54 to start this part, and it's been the most damaging to my life. It's a lot of work to try and sort. Too much at times. Breaks are Ok.

I think 10 years was a time to get the gist of what your life has been like, I waited thinking I was doing the things I needed too. If it's back to therapy, I hope that's not negative to you. It's an awesome proactive decision.
 
Thanks for the response! I do not view therapy in a negative light at all.

I started therapy when I was 20 - if you google Pure O OCD and HOCD you'll get a good idea of what was going on with me and what still flares up with me every now and then. OCD centers of Los Angeles have pretty good information on it.

Joe Kort's stuff was helpful in that I realized a lot of the cycles I went through were compulsive - the whole "trauma as orgasm" bit. I certainly wasn't enjoying them. I did EMDR for the abuse and PTSD, and have seen an APRN as well for work on cognitive behavioral therapy for the anxiety and OCD related stuff. What I learned from that is that orgasms release dopamine, and if what brought you there was something you consider shameful or frightening, it basically wires you to get off on things that you might have found shameful, frightening, etc. Add in the nature of OCD and that it creates doubt and uncertainty, and you've got a recipe for disaster.

I knew I was straight when a girl I had been working with in college, sat down next to me, held my hand, and that was all it took for me to be ridiculously aroused. I have had other men do that, and my reaction isn't violent or angry, it's more along the lines of "I'm flattered and all, but not interested". One instance left me feeling over the moon, the other kind of weirded out and a little uncomfortable.

That experience with the girls in college was also when I knew that for me, I had to KNOW somebody and trust them for me to be comfortable with them. I never could make the first move in those situations though, and that's something that always caused me doubt, and after college, I didn't have women I lived in a dorm with who had been eyeing me for a while. I didn't have any friends who were trying to play matchmaker. As a result, my love life just stopped. You go long enough with having sex or being in a relationship while your friends are getting married and having kids, and the kids you teach in school all just seem to date effortlessly without any kind of doubt or self-consciousness. That fuels my own doubts. I think, "How the hell do they do that? Is it really that easy? If it's that easy, why haven't I been able to do it?" Which is weird, because at the same time I get so happy for those people - a close friend is expecting his second child. An old student who was on a real bad path found himself a girlfriend who is a stellar student and has really helped him turn himself around. Seeing these things happen makes me happy, but then I start criticizing myself for not being able to do those things.

The reason this stuff is coming up, as far as I can tell, is because I'm about to be 31 now, and starting to feel like if I don't make an effort soon I'm gonna be shit out of luck (I have been dope slapped by coworkers, friends, and family alike for expressing this opinion). I love feeling personally free, but even now, I do get lonely from time to time. I look at my father, who's 60 and divorced, and my grandmothers who are widowers, and I worry about being alone. My father at least still has me, his family, and some friends. My grandmothers have the families. If I don't settle down at some point, the family is eventually going to age out and die. My friends don't live in the same state as I do anymore. I want to have somebody to talk to at the end of the day and share my day with, have a drink with, go to the movies with, etc. Sure, friends fill some of that, but lately I've been feeling like I'm starting to want something more than just that, which is usually my internal barometer that I'm looking to date again.

I'm stuck between wanting to be in a relationship and feeling all the other things I articulated above - distrust, fear of being manipulated, fear of being rejected, fear of losing my autonomy, not understanding why anybody would be interested in my anyway (unless they thought it'd be easy to control or manipulate me) etc. That's uncharted territory for me though, whereas my brain is familiar with all the old BS I put myself through. Dating means putting myself in situations where I might get hurt, rejected, manipulated, etc. My old baggage is acting now as a weird sort of defense mechanism by making me feel too shitty to put myself out there, if that makes sense.

You are so right that 10 years ago, I had no idea what my life was going to be. It was a dead end job that allowed me to get my own place, a lot of partying with friends, etc. Now, things are more settled, I'm in a job I enjoy and hope to be in for the rest of my career, and so my attention has turned to other facets of life.

Thanks for your reply!
 
AndyS87 -

thanks for sharing your story. there were a lot of details that i could really relate to. you have been through a lot that a kid shouldn't have to. it also sounds like you have come a long way in healing. i hope it was helpful to put it out there.

what do YOU see as your next step? You have mentioned a therapist, friends, co-workers, and family members all trying to pressure or influence you. But what do YOU see as a positive and realistic goal that you would like to move toward? my impression is that you need to figure that out and do what is right for you rather than trying to please someone else or fit into society's expectations.

Lee
 
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Wow, half of that could be my words, Andy.

I'm bi, didn't have an orientation till late teens, and my irrational fears were centred around the AIDS crisis. But there's a lot of similarity.

You can look at my story for detqils, and I've had 25 years of abuse by everyone that got close enough after the Asian side of my family started dying mostly centred on my race, but:

Your sister sounds like my half-sister on the white side. Significantly younger, I dropped out of school to support her, she continued the behavoiur and became a white supremacist like the rest of that side (to them, Asians are fun toys to dominate, enslave, use, and someTHING to saddle with their debts so they can keep their money). Even an also significantly younger cousin did that to me, and left me with permanent brain damage.

I was told by my mother that she was gonna tell everyone I was a rapist (she was my first abuser, pushed my dad to suicide, no outright sex but heavy sexual undertones, so funny she says this), and ever since, I cannot approach anyone to ask them out or make any first moves for fear of being seen as predatory. I know I'm not a predator, but I desperately fear very bad things will happen if my advances are unwanted, which my life proves the only people who want me want to use me, so my advances will be unwanted by any good people. I only exist to be used. My life is empty, and the future I see before me is just this, the same, until I die. It's mostly about me being Asian or mixed, but outside of this site, I only have three friends and most people do not see me as a real person. Dating in 2018, I lean very strongly toward other men, but at this time and here in SoCal, Movieland, it's all one-night stands. I CANNOT have sex with anyone I do not 100% trust either. Outside of this site and my three friends beside it, the country generally approves of my being abused, much like your family (in my case it's because "Asians are sex toys for use by real people, which Asians are not people."). So we have that similar re-inforcement around us.

While I can say neither of us deserve it, and only perpetrators and those who back them deserve the pain we get (i.e., those who make others suffer deserve to experince the suffering they inflict. We don't. They should be carrying this, not us. This doesn't count for when one victim is forced to do something to another, those are both victims. The perpetrator is the one who understands and is forcing them. Kids who act out or tjink sex is normal in every friendship because of abuse aren't responsible, either, your cousin was a perp and confused you abot what male bonding was. Those who say Asians are supposed to be raped deserve to get my 25 years of suffering. We deserved and still deserve better)

Unfortunately, I am in the same exact boat as you as far as fearing/repressing. I have no answers, but I wanted you to know you're not the only one.
 
Traveler - thanks for asking the question! In truth, I do want to be in a relationship, just on my terms. If it sounded like family/friends/therapist were pressuring me, it's because many of them saw me when I was at my lowest points. I didn't intend to make them sound like they were "pressuring" me, though I suspect my mother and father would like to see me happy so they don't have to worry about me being on my own. I've told them both not to bank on it - after everything I've been through, I really, really like solitude and tend towards it more often than not. I work with great people every day, and I have a job where I am interacting with other people all day - that's how I get to be in contact with other humans on a regular basis. I was lacking that when I had a desk job, and I was miserable because of it. As far as friends go, some know my story, some don't. The ones who know my story, again, think I'm deserving of somebody who will make me happy because they think I deserve to be happy after all the shit I've been through.

My therapist expressed she'd like to see me have more meaningful relationships only because I'd expressed a desire for them. At the very least, I'd like to be capable of asking for one without second guessing myself, doubting that I could succeed in a relationship, fearing I'd end up in a negative relationship without seeing warning signs, etc. and so on. Do I want a "friends with benefits" type of situation? No. Do I necessarily want to be married? Not really - that's a whole lot of navigating the politics of two different families, a big wedding where you and the wife end have a spotlight on you...not my cup of tea. I'd want something in the middle.

I want to be with somebody who values their independence and free time as much as I do, lets me have my interests, shares hers with me...just somebody who I'd be excited to come home to and hang out with, but without having to do every single thing together all the time every day. First steps first though, if we're going to set small and attainable goals, the first would have to be actually asking women out without assuming I'd be immediately rejected and then after that going on dates where I don't feel like I'm on a job interviewed and under pressure to do the most amazing date ever that isn't boring. I prefer to just really enjoy the living shit out of everyday things that some people find boring instead of having to plan all kinds of crazy stuff and hyping it up.

Chairdesklamp, I loathe white supremacists, which I think they weirdly enjoy. I know there's no shortage of them in Florida, either, and am certainly no stranger to people who fetishize Asians. I visited Japan a few times in college, and we did have that one kid on the trip who was OBSESSED with trying to sleep with a Japanese girl while we were there. It was real creepy.

I've never heard anybody talk about how Asians are supposed to be raped or used as playthings, but again, I'm not in a place where there are many white supremacists, at least none who would ever dare to say something like that out loud. I have read and seen case studies that that's a very common perception towards Asian women, especially, while Asian men ins US pop culture are made to seem almost effeminate, or at least asexual. Even a lot of Asian action stars are portrayed as being all about the fighting and very little about any romantic subtext.

At the end of the day though, yes. My experiences with my cousin did confuse me, especially given that they started so young, and it's taken me a long time to sort my way out of that. Can't change what happened though, I can only keep stumbling forward one day at a time. I am figuring out what I wanted and what I like, but I feel like I'm way behind everybody else I know, and that sucks.

As for your situation, if therapy isn't a reliable option, there are a lot of great books and resources people here can point you to. Mike Lew is one author who comes to mind right now, though I forget the name of his book. I wish you well - I do understand how difficult it is to overcome thoughts that you know are irrational, but at the same time don't know what else to think. For you, you know logically and rationally that nothing bad will happen if your advances are rejected, but on an emotional level, that doubt is still there, and that sucks to deal with.
 
Hi Andy. From everything you described I can see why you prefer solitude as an adult. The fact that your parents allowed your sister to abuse you throughout your upbringing is a betrayal by them of your trust in them as your protectors. Them calling it "just normal sibling stuff" and attacking you when you stood up for or defended yourself is gaslighting for sure. I can see why you'd have difficulty seeing yourself as being able to defend yourself in a relationship with someone after having been betrayed by your parents and sister in such an extreme and prolonged way. What I mean is that growing up you were continually abused and then continually told that it wasn't abuse. That could very well have diminished your confidence and trust in your own perceptions, judgments, and reactions to experience, particularly with regard to scenarios where you could be mistreated. I also see why you see women as untrustworthy and dangerous. You must feel like you wouldn't be able to defend yourself if you were mistreated by a women in a relationship. That is a scary place to be. Your only defense, as you noted to Ceremony, is to stay away from them altogether, by telling yourself that you would be turned down anyway, and certainly, as you alluded to, your sister's treatment of you has negatively influenced your self-esteem.

One way to look at what happened to you is to view it as a reaction to, and distraction from, the continual fighting beween your parents that you and your sister were subjected to. Parental discord is very threatening to children. I wouldn't be surprised if, in an unconscious way, you and your sister created a way to distract yourselves from the threat that continued fighting between parents presented to you. I'm not blaming you in any way. These reactions occur because they are preferrable to living in a state of constant fear of the family dissolving. Children can't tolerate that kind of fear. In this way, these reactions are neccessary and function as kind of defense mechanism against severe anxiety. Your O OCD and HOCD may function in the same anxiety dispelling way that your relationship with your sister did. They have taken on a life of their own, as have the effects of your sister's abuse, but like those effects, they serve a protective function.
 
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I can relate to questioning my orientation as well as distrust of women. For a time when I was around the age of 9 I thought I was supposed to be gay for some reason. It could have been because my uncle had been accused of molesting me, and from something I experienced in that relationship although that doesn't quite check out given how I felt about myself at the time because I don't remember anything that would have triggered those thoughts in me. After the accusation however I was put through counseling and it caused a schism in my family. I think I interpreted the questioning as an insinuation that I had done something very bad and that I was dirty and responsible for what happened. It was totally confusing. Growing up as an on only child with my mother in a single-parent religious household I was aware that sex was a 'dirty secret', and although I didn't know much about homosexuality I had been around enough homophobia to use it as a way to self-immolate. When I look back on it now, I think I was really just mentally abusing myself with a complete distortion of my real identity, exactly as I have experienced my family doing to me.

Your experiences with women really resonate with me. I am 34 but did not become sexually active until age 30. I avoided women for so long because of a fear that I would be viewed as a predatory creep. It took that long for me to realize that the opposite is true and that I have no desire to creep someone out, or have power over them in any way. I much prefer a mature, relationship with a women who owns her own power and is able to hold herself accountable and not play the dependent victim role. It also took me that long to realize that many women find me very attractive even though I viewed myself as repulsive to them. Now I know that this was just a distortion of my identity that I acquired from living in a sick household.

Now that I have had several experiences dating and in relationships, I am in a similar position to you when you describe not wanting to get married, but not necessarily wanting to age alone.

At this point I have begun questioning my assumptions about women because of my experiences with them. I feel frustrated that society automatically casts men as the abusers and women as the victims. This is not an accurate perception of reality in my experience. Unfortunately for young boys and men who have endured abuse at the hands of females, this consistently results in extreme emotional and interpersonal isolation due to the fact that our own cultural programming is gas-lighting us when it comes to believing ourselves and validating our own experiences. It also carries the idiotic stigma of ones 'manhood' being inadequate if a man finds himself victim of a woman. In this case, males only get victimized even more. I can see this in your story when you went to people for help and were blamed or shamed further. I am really sorry you had to go through that.

All of this takes a massive toll on men, if male suicide rates compared to female suicide rates are any indication.

I realized, after my last relationship, that marriage is far too risky an endeavor to be considered a serious possibility. It actually feels like a relief because I have allowed myself to determine what is right for me instead of having that decided for my by my social programming.

I just wanted to validate the feelings you express in when it comes to trusting women. The women in your life have certainly been emotionally abusive and narcissistic. Your mother did not respond to your cousin's abuse in a way that really not only protected you, but helped you feel safe and supported your healing. It sounds like you've been through some betrayal.

What I also see though is that you are not betraying yourself. You are owning your experience in a very big way and as you move forward you might find that your family feels threatened by your expanding awareness.

It sounds like you have been pushed to the point of becoming reactive and then shamed and the blame is turned around on you for losing control, making you out to be the abuser. This is a form of narcissistic abuse and it is very toxic. It l I would urge caution as you move forward in healing and awareness to be discerning about what you disclose to your family. Your mother does not sound like she can really accept accountability for her actions or empathize with you, and your father may not be able to either if he is not in touch with what is going on at a deep level. You won't be able to help them, change them or fix them in any way, and I'm sure you are already aware of this. It might be worth considering, if I can offer this, reducing contact if you need to so that you can avoid exposing yourself to toxic situations, having your buttons pushed, being gas-lighted and scapegoated etc., and finding as much support as you can outside your family whether it is therapy, recovery groups, friends or hobbies with other people so that you can focus on having a good life for yourself and not being responsible for any of your family's dysfunction.

Hope this is helpful. Your post contained a lot of really important stuff, I didn't even get to respond to the issue with your cousin, but this is not to diminish it at all. I just wanted to encourage you to trust yourself and your experience above all and to find healthy supportive connections out there in there world, just like you are doing by posting here. Sending you my best wishes.
 
GRC, this resonated with me quite a bit:

"I avoided women for so long because of a fear that I would be viewed as a predatory creep...I much prefer a mature, relationship with a women who owns her own power and is able to hold herself accountable and not play the dependent victim role... It also took me that long to realize that many women find me very attractive even though I viewed myself as repulsive to them. Now I know that this was just a distortion of my identity that I acquired from living in a sick household".

That's very true for me. There was a coworker who I had dated for a while, and she had asked why I seemed distant. I told her I didn't realize that's what her intentions were, because very few people throughout my life had ever expressed any such interest in me, beyond the context of some hookups here and there in college. This was more long term. She told me she found that very difficult to believe...felt like a huge compliment! She ended up moving, but we were on good terms.

Family stuff is hard - my parents both changed MARKEDLY for the better after divorcing. My father can be obstinate, but is also incredibly supportive of me now and would give me the shirt off his back. He allowed me to live with him free or rent when I went back to grad school full time, and in that time period we got quite a bit closer, and we communicate easily now. There are very few things we can't discuss, because we've had enough rows and resolutions that we understand how we communicate. My aunts and Uncle were a helpful insight as well - his childhood really taught him to be emotionally unresponsive, and so anything that challenges him to look inward and express his emotions is very difficult for him to do. He eventually admitted that to me himself, and we're at a point where when I'm speaking with him and he feels stuck, he knows how to articulate that now without getting angry. The upside is also that I think he feels slightly less responsible for things from my childhood because he was always working while my mother was a stay at home mom, and also because after they divorced, she was the primary parent. He always kept his house open for us, and there were several times when my mother would melt down and he'd either let me or my sister stay with him while things calmed down. For a guy who struggles with being emotionally honest, he's generally FAR more stable in his emotional states than my mother.

Mom is tougher - very open about certain things, also wants to do whatever she can to help, but can be prone to reacting in very emotionally explosive ways. For instance, she helped me find cognitive behavioral therapists in the past and also introduced me to mindfulness, which has been a tremendous help for me. She has also given me names of therapists and social workers with experience in family therapy, but when I brought up some of the issues I was having at the time, I kept them strictly related to me and my sister and left her and anything family related out of it.

She is an LPC - the reason I don't talk to her about her own hand is because when she feels guilty, her initial response is to basically have temper tantrums. Through her own journey in life and her own experiences in counseling, she's gotten better, but there are some things I just won't broach with her. She's also the primary caregiver for my grandmother, who has had a life long history of mental illness and is in a nursing home. Her older sisters tend to saddle her with all the other family burdens, and my cousin is the son of her oldest sister. I think she's unable to acknowledge the abuse as abuse because in her mind, there's no way she can resolve it now. She can't make up for not getting me therapy as a child, can't make up for not limiting contact between me and my cousin, can't make up for not being more "protective" of me (and this woman did do everything she could to shelter me from every "bad" thing in the world, which my father did not at all agree with), can't change what she was going through at the time (which included her father dying of cancer and an unhappy marriage). On top of all that, she has from multiple sclerosis and was suffering from it pretty severely until I was in High School. In her mind, all that time she was sick is time she was literally barely capable of providing care - my sister and I do not fault her for that AT ALL - people get sick! But in her mind, it's just one more failure and one more thing she couldn't do for us. I think that's so profoundly upsetting to her and causes her to feel like such an abject failure as a parent that it just sets her off, because there's nothing else she do about it now to make those scars go away.

It may make me a bit passive aggressive, but usually by ignoring her for a week or two she'll come around, apologize, and admit fault. The difference is that now I have the power to do that - when I was a teenager, not so much. As you stated though, she has blindspots. She ALREADY feels so guilty for so many parts of my and my sisters childhoods that I think she truly can't cope with hearing about more shit that happened that she didn't or couldn't stop.

What's telling is that I was always a compliant child. My sister was not, and because my parents never effectively put her in her place, by the time we were teenagers she was an absolute monster, and they couldn't control her at all. I was a lot easier - if I had a problem with a decision my parents made, all they had to do was reason with me. Their reasons were usually solid and made sense to me, so I listened. Over time, they trusted me (and all of my friends) a HELL of a lot more than they trusted my sister, and gave me a lot of freedom because of it, but that was later on into high school, probably my jr. and sr. years. Before that...oof. Almost makes me think it was their way of apologizing.

At any rate...yeah. LOT of family dysfunction. I feel like instead of me growing up and becoming an adult, I've grown up and become an adult, and now all the older adults in the family (my parents, aunts, and uncles) are all growing in their own ways too. Dysfunctional as we are, we've always been a very close family, so when one person's going through something, I think it makes all of us do some soul searching. One day at a time, though!
 
AndyS87 said:
That's where I'm at now, but when I finished therapy I remember thinking "I just want peace and to avoid having to suffer or be hurt". There's a part of me that doesn't want to go back and have to do all this over again, but if I don't, I'll stay where I'm at, and that's not really want to do either. If you've read all this, thank you for your time.

The last part of the paragraph speaks to me. Especially the bolded. Thanks for sharing your story! :)
 
AndyS87

Thank you for sharing your story. You have lived many injustices which have impacted your life and perception of yourself. Forget labels and other peoples perception of you, we are all unique but society wants us to conform to some norm established by--and I am not sure who that would be. Be yourself, be happy and remember the abuse should not define you, your sister's action and your parent's inability to see these actions impact you, should not define you. Family's believe familial behavior as learned from generations before does not negatively impact a child. This is where so many are wrong, they promote the past and continue to subject family members to harm. Teasing, harsh words are all emotional abuse, it does not toughen anyone but rather can destroy self esteem and for some to carry on this ill treatment into future relationships. You are facing the issues by identifying the issues.

You have stated you do not want to stay where you are today, a sign of recognition and strength. Support and help is what we all need, not just survivors, to grow and be who we truly are.

Keep going and I am sorry you lived so many injustices.

Kevin
 
AndyS87

I was thinking about this post. I was thinking of my own family growing up--far from perfect but everything was aired, no one held back what they thought. I have learned holding in and marching to the drummer because we are "expected" probably creates more damage. I think of the difficult times with parents--we talked or more likely yelled but got it out. It may not have been immediate recognition but probably had to be said over and over. I think of my abuse, I did not air and look at the damage it caused to me as I bottled it up over and over, I hid it and let it eat at my mind and body. I think of those in families that live in denial, pretend everything is rosy how attitudes and behaviors continue to damage the child into adulthood. I know I carry baggage from childhood and it impacted others. It takes time for those reared in hiding and denial to breakdown to see the truth. Sadly, some never do. I am not sure how you parents will ultimately respond. Maybe you telling them maybe a first step toward recognition of the damage done to you by allowing a child to emotionally attack you. They may have been reared that way and to them it is acceptable without focusing on the words and actions and how it impacted them or their siblings.

I am beginning to realize sharing here and with others has allowed me to release and that is what you did in your post. I hope it helps you. Thank you for sharing.

Kevin
 
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