When is enough enough?

[i-m-Bri]

I don't speak much about this process with my husband of 42 years.
He's known most of my story all along.
Hell, he was my therapist's boyfriend (long story)
I'm always been reluctant to talk to him about it, usually because it felt like therapy.
When I do, his responses are always short.
One he always pulls out is, "How long am I going to let this guy(s) live in my head"?

A few months ago, I got very disturbed seeing a video of the man who kidnapped me.
It stirred a lot up.
Yesterday I mentioned something to my husband and he said that stupid phrase.
And things like "moving on" and "how much therapy?"
I answered, "You know I don't feel my dick; I can't feel my dick; the doctor said it wasn't physical. WTF is in between me and my dick? They are. I just know it"

Fuck, I felt so fucking tiny and failed.
I also thought he (with a pretty fucked up past) would understand.

A few hours later, I received an email from the documentary director who "would be happy" to talk to me about the kidnapper.
I was reluctant to share my good news with my husband.
But didn't want to stuff my excitement.
He said, "Oh Good!" as if he was happy for me.

Ugh

So fuck it.
I will do what I need to do.
Enough is when I say so.

 

[Maleelder]

It is with full disrespect that he treats you and you need to either work on this issue with him or without him. He sounds to me like he has no empathy and you deserve to be treated with love and respect. I would ask him to speak to a counselor together so he might understand the pain he creates by his attitude about your past. Take care and I hope you both get help with this situation.

 

[wolfbane]

He said, "Oh Good!" as if he was happy for me.

Was he being sarcastic? If not, why would that response be so upsetting for you? Is it because of his previous responses of "get over it," etc.? Is there any chance those previous responses were born out of the frustration of seeing his husband suffer and not being able to help? Regardless, you're right in doing what you feel you need to do. Sorry you're going through this.

 

[Induna]

So fuck it.
I will do what I need to do.
Enough is when I say so.

Exactly.

After so many decades of never really trusting our instincts and always questioning our motives now is the time to be masters of our fate, at least as much as a man can be.

Evicting ghosts and monsters from our minds requires bravery and sacrifice. Go @i-m-Bri !!!

 

[smc1972]

I don't speak much about this process with my husband of 42 years.

Been with mine 25 years coming this November and we do not speak about my past. All he knows is I was sexually abused but not the details as i can’t share it. I think in part he wont know how to react that it would be uncomfortable for him plus I feel I will be dumping my issues on him.

I would like to think your husband would be more attentive to you and listen to you in a supportive manner versus being dismissive. You mentioned he had a pretty “fucked up” past. Has he dealt with his past? Do you think he maybe is feeling like you have made progress in dealing with the horrible things you experienced and he can not relate? I am not saying it excuses him but just wondering.

I do admire you and others here who had such extreme experiences and he you are sharing and evening speaking to a director making a documentary. I can only share here and with my T. And here this is pretty anonymous which is why i can do it here but not in person at a group.

But didn't want to stuff my excitement.

You shouldn’t stuff it, it is how you feel and it is a good for you.

So fuck it.
I will do what I need to do.
Enough is when I say so.

Exactly you, me all of us have to think like that as we seem to never have had that in us growing up. I know i still don’t as I know others here are also still working to find that self-confidence within.

Last thought and again i am not one to speak as I have never done this and probably should, have you and your husband ever gone to therapy together like couples?

I see that you have it in you to do what is best for you and you should.

 

[smc1972]

After so many decades of never really trusting our instincts and always questioning our motives now is the time to be masters of our fate

So true. I hope I can get there one day myself.

 

[leith70613]

Hey dear brother Bri,

I hear you. It takes a lot to open up to someone you’ve shared so much life with, and to have him respond in a way that minimizes what you’re going through is tough, upsetting and frustrating. I get that feeling of wanting him to understand, especially when his past has been rough too. But somehow, he just doesn't get how deep the pain goes or why it’s still there. It’s not something you can just “move on” from, and it’s frustrating when people think time or therapy should’ve wiped it all away by now.

I’ve tried putting myself in your husband’s shoes. Maybe he feels like this process is taking over your life, your thoughts, and your emotions. He might see it as an obsession because he likely dealt with his own trauma differently, maybe by letting it go, at least outwardly. I imagine he thinks that because this approach worked for him, it should work for you too. But healing isn’t one-size-fits-all, and the way we cope with trauma is deeply personal.

We both know that trauma doesn’t just disappear. It’s like a curse that lives in our heads rent free, and you can’t simply ignore it or pretend it’s not there. You talked about that wall between you and feeling whole again, and that wall is very real. Sometimes, to break free, we have to search for answers, to find some sort of understanding of why we are the way we are now. You have every right to do that. You deserve answers, and if that’s what’s going to help you find some peace, then that’s what you need to do.

But while you’re searching, I hope you protect yourself, brother. Uncovering disturbing stuff can bring a lot of old pain to the surface, and it can mess with your head in ways that are hard to predict. It can stir up memories we wish would stay buried. Stay strong in your pursuit of healing, but don’t forget to take care of yourself along the way.

You’re doing what you need to do. That’s all that matters. Hugs for you.

 

[MO-Survivor]

When my T and I were considering having my father in a therapy’s session (I opted not to), she was asking me what it was I needed / wanted. One of the things I said was that I wanted him to have to face it head-on, to fill his thoughts like what he did fills my thoughts - every single fucking day.

She said to me, “You know what is hitting me like a tone of bricks right now? This is something you deal with every day. It has affected your life every day, and you want him to know and see that and experience some of that too.” Internally I was like, “You’re just now realizing this about me?” But the rest of me realized that yes - the injustice of me having to live with a “life sentence” and him getting off with no consequences and nary a thought about it and even going so far as telling me those young parts in me just need to “grow up,” is maddening.

Yes, my wife surely struggles at times seeing me emotionally fixating on things of the past. And of course it has affected my ability to be with her emotionally and physically - especially times when I’m emotionally triggered. She still expresses empathy and compassion, but she has never told me to just get over it, ignore it, move on, etc. That sensitivity in her is likely owed to the fact she’s done her own counseling longer than I have and realized the fact there are ups and downs when dealing with our pain and issues. And our past.

I can tell you @i-m-Bri, if someone close to me essentially said, “Get over it,” it would piss me off at them for a long while. The expression of uncaring and a lack of empathy would be hard to take.

 

[Induna]

I think it is incredibly difficult for those who were not sexually abused as children to understand how profoundly we had to adapt in order to deal with it.

There is no "getting over it" in my opinion. There is only recontextualizing it and regaining conscious control of many of our adaptations that we made automatic. It's like having a limb cutoff or losing an eye. You adapt but you can never grow them back.

For those who have not experienced this it is easy for them to imagine that if we could only "deal with and get over" the events which happened so long ago we could be free of it. Some imagine that we "cling" to the past because we do not want to let it go. If we appear to "cling" to the past it is because there are moments there which defined us, which changed the way we had to see the world and ourselves, and which on a level we didn't fully understand made us different forever.

I firmly believe that we are the only ones who can say what is right for us and what is necessary. We don't have to explain it either. We probably could not if we wanted to. Those who love us have to accept this if they want what is best for us. If they cannot they should leave us rather than try to "fix" us. I also believe that even though we will never be "normal" that our journeys through hell, our survival and our blossoming as adults make us very special men and partners.

 

[Curiouspaints]

I think it is incredibly difficult for those who were not sexually abused as children to understand how profoundly we had to adapt in order to deal with it.

There is no "getting over it" in my opinion. There is only recontextualizing it and regaining conscious control of many of our adaptations that we made automatic. It's like having a limb cutoff or losing an eye. You adapt but you can never grow them back.

For those who have not experienced this it is easy for them to imagine that if we could only "deal with and get over" the events which happened so long ago we could be free of it. Some imagine that we "cling" to the past because we do not want to let it go. If we appear to "cling" to the past it is because there are moments there which defined us, which changed the way we had to see the world and ourselves, and which on a level we didn't fully understand made us different forever.

I firmly believe that we are the only ones who can say what is right for us and what is necessary. We don't have to explain it either. We probably could not if we wanted to. Those who love us have to accept this if they want what is best for us. If they cannot they should leave us rather than try to "fix" us. I also believe that even though we will never be "normal" that our journeys through hell, our survival and our blossoming as adults make us very special men and partners.

this is why I call folks civilians
it takes So much effort to get down to how we are still alive.
In this moment.

 

[Induna]

this is why I call folks civilians
it takes So much effort to get down to how we are still alive.
In this moment.

It is a very difficult conversation to have because it necessarily touches on some very unpleasant things and brings back feelings in us that we may be ashamed of. It is one thing to talk of being abused and raped by monsters. It is another to talk about the complex and cruel dynamic that happened when our abusers were people we loved or wanted to be with. It is hard for most adults to understand this, even us. They want to imagine first that children are never used sexually, but if they must imagine it they want to believe those children were like little adults to whom something terrible was done and who just needs to "overcome" the trauma. They don't want to conceive of the complex interactions of a child's need to please and be loved and the horrible power that erotic pleasure and psychological manipulation can have over a child's sense of self and future development. The profound disassociation that most of us feel from our lives and bodies is totally alien to them.

Most of us understand these things on some basic level even if we never talk about them. Our brothers here understand but telling this story to "civilians" so they can hear it is very hard. I'm sure girls who were abused face similar problems.

 

[Curiouspaints]

The profound disassociation that most of us feel from our lives and bodies is totally alien to them.

A good film about dissociation

Not clinically but dramatic wise

 

[i-m-Bri]

@Maleelder
When I am vulnerable, his abbreviated verbal interactions are painful.
But I know his heart.
I could ask him to speak more clearly, but I might as well ask him to fly.
He can't.
Today, I just couldn't take it with the understanding I normally do.

Is there any chance those previous responses were born out of the frustration

YES!!!!
A few weeks ago, we had a rare, long (for us) conversation. In it, he expressed how he wished I could find peace. I know he's not good with words (seriously, he rarely uses nouns...can't find them in his mind), so he leans on repeating phrases. I was just shocked it was back to these. I know he wishes me well.

Evicting ghosts and monsters from our minds requires bravery and sacrifice.

and repeated effort
and time!

Has he dealt with his past?

As much as he will.
I attentively listened
to him talk about how it affected him.
And how bitter he is about it.
He doesn't see the similarities, and when it's in front of our faces, it's never the time to say so.

I can only share here and with my T

OMG, it's taken me decades. Even with my T, I forbade him to ever mention "the playground" for the longest time.
There is no schedule or even a "when" to talk to others.

Maybe he feels like this process is taking over your life,

I spent the first lockdown writing my biography. He thought I should have been in the studio making art.
I gave him a few pages to read. He made it to the second page, and it was untouched for days. After a week, I had to know if my writing was that bad he couldn't muddle through. No, he couldn't bear knowing the details.
I think part of him wishes I could just walk away and be free.
But I know if I turn my back on this, it would be denied, not freedom.

said, “Get over it,” it would piss me off at them for a long while.

I know in his heart he is wishing I COULD get over it. He's just so fucking shitty at speaking.
That sounds like an excuse, but I take his actions over his words.
He really shared my excitement about the director's email.

our survival and our blossoming as adults make us very special men and partners.

At the end of the day, I know we both value and cherish each other for exactly who we are.
He's acknowledged the strength I used to survive. I think he believes I can use that to just "break the spell".
But we all know that's not how it works (damn it!)

The profound disassociation that most of us feel from our lives and bodies is totally alien to them.

To him, sex is liberation, a big "fuck you" to everyone who beat the shit out of him.
He can't fathom the shutdown I am locked in.

 

[smc1972]

OMG, it's taken me decades.

I am 52 and I did not really address this here or with a T until 2019. Decades for me also so you are not alone there at all. I still have things i have not shared and not sure when i ever will. I know i think I about all the time i have lost as you probably do and most of us here. But I tell myself if I had not finally sought help would i be here today. So yes it may have taken you decades or me decades but we are working on it now for ourselves.

Even with my T, I forbade him to ever mention "the playground" for the longest time

I do not think that is uncommon i have doen the same thing. She knows things i have never shared here. Early on i asked her about her taking notes out of fear somehow someone else would see them. In am email on Wednesday I told her there are things I can not share cause our sessions are online that only in person maybe I could. Never had an in-person session. It is ok but it is also unfortunate that we and I am sure other here we have to do that. We still carry such shame when we know it is not ours, yet we still carry it. Again you are not alone in that.

I spent the first lockdown writing my biography.

I admire you and others who have done such things like that or journaling. I have tried and have some stuff but I quit like everythign else in my life. If he did not read it completely that is on him and has nothing to do with what you wrote. I cant help but wonder how much he has not dealt with in his own life. You can not take his reaction as anything towards you. Not easy to do I am sure.

At the end of the day, I know we both value and cherish each other for exactly who we are.
He's acknowledged the strength I used to survive

He sounds like someone who does truly care and love you and you care and love him. There may be those times as any relationship has where one question things or a one may say somethign that is not the best. At the end of the day it come to is he good for you and you are good for him. Seems to me based on what you wrote it is.

To him, sex is liberation, a big "fuck you" to everyone who beat the shit out of him.
He can't fathom the shutdown I am locked in.

That is an interesting statement. The reason I say that is my partner is hearing impaired and that has been a challenge all his life on how he is treated by others. Sex is something powerful to him he is in control. His first sexual experience was with a cousins that was a couple years older and lasted for a while. I never thought of it but now i wonder like you said is he trying to prove something to himself, be in charge. For me maybe like you a lot of time i turn back in to my young self. He knows I will go there a lot of times even checkout so to speak. Odd dynamics when you sit here and think about it.

He doesn't see the similarities, and when it's in front of our faces

As you said it has taking you decades maybe he is still working to get there. Maybe he does not want to see those similarities. I am just throwing out thoughts. But as you said “you both cherish each other” at the end of the day that is the thing, we all have our issues and struggles but you both recognize that which is way more than a lot of couples can say.

 

[i-m-Bri]

You can not take his reaction as anything towards you

OMG, so true.
I know he has not even come close to resolving his past. What he has done works for him, though. He has it in a stasis field, alive, but unable to hurt him.
He seems to think I am on a quest to forget it, or make it not have happened...I believe he's speaking more for himself.

Our life together is extremely rich with so much. There are blatant things it's missing, but no life is perfect and we have our ways.

 

[Maleelder]

Every relationship has its positives and negatives Enjoy and work on what you have as you sound like you are willing to continue to fix it if it can be

 

[Steve E.]

I think it is incredibly difficult for those who were not sexually abused as children to understand how profoundly we had to adapt in order to deal with it.

There is no "getting over it" in my opinion. There is only recontextualizing it and regaining conscious control of many of our adaptations that we made automatic. It's like having a limb cutoff or losing an eye. You adapt but you can never grow them back.

For those who have not experienced this it is easy for them to imagine that if we could only "deal with and get over" the events which happened so long ago we could be free of it. Some imagine that we "cling" to the past because we do not want to let it go. If we appear to "cling" to the past it is because there are moments there which defined us, which changed the way we had to see the world and ourselves, and which on a level we didn't fully understand made us different forever.

I firmly believe that we are the only ones who can say what is right for us and what is necessary. We don't have to explain it either. We probably could not if we wanted to. Those who love us have to accept this if they want what is best for us. If they cannot they should leave us rather than try to "fix" us. I also believe that even though we will never be "normal" that our journeys through hell, our survival and our blossoming as adults make us very special men and partners.

Thank you for this, Induna. You speak to a question that’s been on my mind recently as I heal - as a survivor of abuse, how do I understand myself both internally and to others who know me? How to make sense of all this? For most my entire life, I’ve had absolutely no idea who I am. I think it’s an important step for me to figure out so I can continue to move forward.

 

[Induna]

Thank you for this, Induna. You speak to a question that’s been on my mind recently as I heal - as a survivor of abuse, how do I understand myself both internally and to others who know me? How to make sense of all this? For most my entire life, I’ve had absolutely no idea who I am. I think it’s an important step for me to figure out so I can continue to move forward.

It is hard untangling threads we have forgotten, buried, or simply refused to see. Sometimes a trusted friend or spouse can help us see ourselves differently.