Underachieving/hiding/not growing up - anyone who has overcome it?

[EdfromNYC]

Reading book about male CSA survivors. There's a patient that describes me. It's a 45 year old guy who radiates a "sweet, boyish charm" who tried to solve his problems by not growing up. Like me, based on his past, he thought that if he were to really grow up and become a man that he would have to behave abusively. But he also saw gay men as societal victims and he didn't want to be that even though he was afraid he was that or that other men would know that he had engaged in sexual behavior with men. He "retreated" to a seemingly asexual, innocent adolescent posture. He was also employed in a low level position that didn't use his intellect, abilities or education and he had lacked adult financial ability.

I know that I'm writing about another guy but this is me. I am in a job, in an apartment that doesn't suit me or my abilities or education. I am "asexual" and "innocent" on the surface. I am afraid to claim being a male all of the way. Life continues to pass me by. I want out of this. I've wasted so much time not taking chances, not being among other guys, not facing up to what happened and not growing up.

I'm really looking for other guys who have seen aspects of themselves in this or identify in some way who have grown out of this or who can give suggestions. I am not looking to spend years in therapy to "figure this out" while my life goes nowhere. Has anyone started achieving later in life after having lived a life of staying small, without their real self being expressed?

 

[tony passey]

Hey bud , I’ve always been the age I was then. That’s what Impressionism does . I am a free child now though not an adapted one for someone else’s purposes.
If I wasn’t a free child I might not have done the third highest tombstone in UK last month. But I am and I did and I loved it like a child should. You will most probably have to live what you missed. It’s not a crime. It’s what was taken, so your entitled to it back
Best wishes Tony

 

[Tom E.]

EdfromNYC
I can sure relate to this.This is exactly what I've done with my life too. Sad isn't it?

 

[tony passey]

Sad ........ I don’t know the difference, they both make you cry Tom E

 

[tony passey]

Maybe I should expand on that
Happy and Sad feel the same to me
I don’t know whether either tears are good but I know that I cry a lot, pray a lot, get overwhelmed with both a lot
It’s my lot in life. Yes I suppose it is sad but then when I attend to my infirm neighbours I feel happy that I’ve done my bit , but sad that life is this way for them. Even though one is really happy and her fella totally demented with age and very sad, I respect the fact that he asks me to cut all the trees down as the leaves are touching his head when he tries to walk around the village. I’m sad for him , sad for the trees and sad that his wife has it 24-7 but I’m happy that she maintains him and herself and I’m happy that we share beautiful trees and he doesn’t know how to work his chainsaw anymore. It’s all very emotional and I feel that the more I give then the more I have to take. Luckily I only 49 and but unlucky enough to not be able to define the difference between happy and sad

 

[Reflecting]

Hi EdfromNYC, I was in a very poor head space about eight years ago. I was constantly despairing about being stuck in a rut with my life direction, lack of career success after my first degree & tiny number of relationships. I started having long discussions with some close friends from high school and also with a psychologist (non trauma trained) about how to move forward with my life. I did not discuss any details about my sexual abuse, but did briefly talk about my parental emotional abuse with my psychologist. I realised that as awful & frightening as the prospect of making changes and also potentially failing at them, staying stuck where I was in the present, was even more frightening. This was not an easy thing to realise or take action on, I'll be the first to admit that!

I moved to a different city and started a new university degree in a field I was more passionate about. After completing that, I then completed a related Masters degree & gave myself a long awaited overseas holiday. I moved to another state two years ago (there were speed-bumps in the way!), where I've been working in a clinical area that I enjoy. I've also dated & had more relationships over these past few years, both at unviersity and after graduating, than I did beforehand.

Once I started making the very first steps towards changing (researching degrees in an area I felt passionate about, looking at new places to live), I felt immensely better about the future, and the more little steps I took, the better I felt. Making the first step is difficult, but once you get started, that little bit of momentum makes it easier to keep on making even progress. If I can suggest anything from my experiences, it's that doing small little steps towards one area you want to work on, be that a new job/promotion that better uses your skills & passion, relationships etc. Even if it's literally spending 5 minutes a day just reading up on a more suitable job or education opportunity, upcoming social events for adults your age, online exercise programs, whatever, that is progress.

Whilst I've still got a long, long, long way to go in terms of opening up emotionally with more meaningful relationships, advancing my career & other fun life stuff, I'm much more confident that I can do it, and feel pride in what I've accomplished compared to 2012 me.

You've already made a major step forward in actually acknowledging you're not happy where you are. I'm confident that you can continue down this path of advancing and setting out to achieve what you want to in this life.

 

[Ferguson]

The analogy of weight loss works for me: Metaphorically let's say I was 100 stone and lost 50 stone (Progress!) But the response from others is always "Wow your fat!" I lose another 25 stone....but "Wow your fat!" or just knowing that is what is being thought. So long as I am allowing myself to be defined by others, I'm never changing/ catching up fast enough. My idea of being fully a man - "despising the day of small beginnings" has help me remain stunted. I'm 56 and my assessment of my emotional maturing and productivity and manhood is not very objective and I would say neither is the assessment of others. I think this endless "death" is a ruthless teacher! But I think I'm learning! It's inevitable. Be Well. It is all in hand.

 

[EdfromNYC]

Reflecting:

I realised that as awful & frightening as the prospect of making changes and also potentially failing at them, staying stuck where I was in the present, was even more frightening.

Exactly! That's when change seems to happen. I can't stay where I am any longer, can't stay with the same people in the same groups. I can state that I need to grow. I've started investigating with the help of others different cities that suit me where I am now. I am taking a trip in a few weeks to different areas to check them out. I'm worried about the unknown and also about leaving NYC (it's such a way of life whether I partake of all of it or not) but I want to grow up and live more. I've spent a lot of time in worry and fear and not taking action. I have ideas about what I can do wherever I go but there's risk. I've been letting go slowly over past few months as a precursor to making leaps like it sounds like you did. I agree that it is the 5 minutes per day mentality that works.

Thanks I needed to read a story of someone who was where I am now and has moved on past that.

 

[EdfromNYC]

Ferguson, agree with a lot of what you wrote. It's funny but in last 4 months I've lost 30 pounds but since covid, there's no one to show it to since I'm not working. I didn't get to experience the affirmation or validation from others like I would have before. Now, I just get to experience how I feel about it. And I like it! This is the fittest I've been since high school, decades ago. Covid has forced me to live more from the inside out plus a lot of growth work I've been doing around boundaries, changing perspective, accepting, facing more of what happened to me and how I got here. I agree that comparing myself is a losing proposition. But I'm not happy. That's due to continuing to live a life based on values that I mistakenly adopted as a reaction to my abuse and how I thought my abuse defined me. No more details than that but I've been stuck in this mentality of being a victim, less of a man due to that, sexually disoriented, ashamed and guilty and wanting to remain hidden for decades and I don't want to live like that any more. I've lived based on my victim status and how I processed it for way way too long.

 

[ShawnJM]

I did this early on in my adult life. Had an accidental child at 21. Blew a full scholarship. Worked a 5 pizza joints, etc., etc. But that full scholarship nagged at me. So by age 25, I was divorced, and a full time dad, and back in college. 14 years later, I have 2 degrees.

I drown myself in over achievement. Because I have learned one thing in this fucked up journey. I have to define my self worth before anyone else can.

You are worth more than you know. And you have to believe it. Believe it by doing things that establish this. Actions speak louder than words.

And at some point, you need to muster up the courage to share with your close friends. You may loose some, but in my experience, those people aren't worth keeping around.

I'm on year 46 of this journey. It's been hellish at times, and yet also a beautiful journey.

Stay strong brother. And do no harm, instead, use this struggle to shine desperately needed light, into the dark places.

 

[traveler]

Has anyone started achieving later in life after having lived a life of staying small, without their real self being expressed?

I don’t know how to answer this without defining some terms up front.

The word “achieving” first needs to be explained. Different people mean different things when they use it. Do you mean achieving success in the typical sense like most of society would quantify it – prestigious job, high income, big house, expensive cars and lots of grown-up toys? Or do you mean some more individual measure of achievement that is satisfying to you because you have met your own personal goals and are feeling fulfilled and at peace with how you have invested your time and the kinds of rewards you are receiving?

Next, I’d want to explore what is meant by “real self.” To speak for myself, I do not know what my real self would have been if I had not been abused. That changed everything. It is a question that used to haunt me and could have thwarted my progress if I had given in to the temptation to obsess about it. The self that I know now is one that I am very aware was influenced by my abuse experiences and my reactions to them. I have found it necessary to adapt my goals to ones that I think are attainable given both my interests and talents as well as my limitations and insecurities – the reality of my altered and present real self.

So – my approach to this question is to know and accept myself and set realistic and self-satisfying goals. I refuse to let anyone else define me or define success for me. I am now officially retired but during my working career I found my fulfillment by working in jobs that I enjoyed, that gave me creative outlets, and that benefitted others. I never got rich, but I have had a pretty good life, have had the chance to travel extensively, have successfully raised a family, and have seen my work make a difference to numerous people.

A turning point came when I was about 40. I lost a job that was comfortable but had no prospects for advancement. In order to not only survive but to move forward, I had to take a “leap of faith” and to start a journey upon “the road less traveled.” It was scary, but I have never regretted it.

lee

 

[Visitor]

What Lee says... The turning point for me was when I was 43 and finally told a therapist about my dark past. That led a year later to returning to graduate school. Two and half years later I quit a high paying but soul-crushing job to finish graduate school. I've never made that kind of money again and my journey unpacking sexual trauma left me bruised emotionally but this has been the journey I needed to take. The lines in the 12 Step Promises always speak to me... "We'll not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and will know peace." I've opened the door and explored the dark side of this life I've been given. On some level, a bit like the girl who dug through that mountain of horse manure in the belief there was a pony buried there, I believed there was/is something of immense value that lies within me... in fact, within each of us. Hence the T.S. Eliot quote below... I've been finding the place for the first time where my aliveness is celebrated.

Ultimately, this is a spiritual quest. We are asking the deep questions about the meaning of life. Yes, we've been dealt a pretty horrible hand but human suffering comes in many forms.

PLEASE CALL ME BY MY TRUE NAMES


Do not say that I'll depart tomorrow
because even today I still arrive.

Look deeply: I arrive in every second
to be a bud on a spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with wings still fragile,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.

I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
in order to fear and to hope.
The rhythm of my heart is the birth and
death of all that are alive.

I am the mayfly metamorphosing on the surface of the river,
and I am the bird which, when spring comes, arrives in time
to eat the mayfly.

I am the frog swimming happily in the clear pond,
and I am also the grass-snake who, approaching in silence,
feeds itself on the frog.

I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks,
And I am the arms merchant, selling deadly weapons to Uganda.

I am the twelve-year-old girl, refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean after being raped by a sea-pirate,
and I am the pirate, my heart not yet capable of seeing and loving.

I am a member of the politburo, with plenty of power in my hands,
and I am the man who has to pay my "debt of blood" to my people,
dying slowly in a forced labour camp.

My joy is like spring, so warm it makes flowers bloom in all walks of life.
My pain is like a river of tears, so full it fills the four oceans.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and laughs at once
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart can be left open,
the door of compassion.

Thich Nhat Hahn
Vietnamese Buddhist Monk

You're asking good questions Ed. When we stop running away from ourselves, finally discover some compassion for ourselves and begin taking care of ourselves, then we have the opportunity to find answers that are meaningful for us.

 

[Piepel]

Hey EDfromNYC, for years I kept up the "sweet, boyish charm" as you say. It was a survival technique resulting from the CSA. A friend of mine in my master's program nicknamed me "smiley." I identified who I was by this facade I had created to cope with the wreckage of my past and to survive in a world that doesn't really care about my past but is obsessed with what I bring to the table.

During those younger years, I assured myself that at least I would never become a bitter old man. I realized one day in my mid-50's that I had become just that. That sweet, boyish charm had dissipated and I smiled less and less often.

God was merciful and allowed me a spiritual renewal. I pray for wisdom and grace. Where I live and what I do are secondary for me today. And I am glad to be reconnected with others again.

Thank you for your post,
Piepel from NJ.

 

[Harry]

I also express a boyish charm socially. It's like I'm saying, "Hey everyone, I'm safe and non-sexual and non-threatening".
I have an aversion to success, because success gives you power, and power will corrupt me. I have nothing to back that theory up with, but it's a strong maladaptive schema engrained in my mind.
I have worth, but I've not defined it. I've got to break free from my negative self-perception. Augh!!!!!!!!

 

[EdfromNYC]

I like to reply to everyone because everyone has something that helps me. But there's a perfectionist streak in me that wants to do that rather than be grateful for the replies and people relating their own experience. I've found that the best way for my heart and mind to be receptive is when people relate their experience rather than try to "teach". Each person shared their experience.

I've done a lot of work since I wrote that post and "smiley" guy is mostly gone. I've become much more genuine and much more integrated and adult and I feel that I'm an adult among other adults. I'm starting to put my abuse in the context of "it's just something that happened to me" and not defining my life around it or my reaction to it. I've been letting go of a lot of coping behaviors and growing and healing. I feel like finding different spaces to actually "put it down" and stop fighting or trying to figure it out is the anti-smiley behavior. It's the behavior of the adult me. I'm accepting loss of time and opportunity but simultaneously knowing that the time to live is now.

 

[Harry]

EdfromNYC, your progress from your smiley façade to authenticity is inspiring. I want to feel like an adult among other adults. I want to stop living my life in a foggy echoing reaction to my trauma.
Fear is exhausting. I'd like to "put it down" more so that I can say, "this is what happened, but that is not who I am."
I want to feel like I'm present and authentic.
What kind of places did you manage to "put it down", Ed?

 

[EdfromNYC]

What kind of places did you manage to "put it down", Ed?

A few places. Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families. It's a place where people are focused on changing their maladaptive behaviors including people pleasing, codependency, being inauthentic. It took a while to get comfortable in there but I stuck around long enough to be honest. Within that program, there's even dialogue around sexual abuse so this issue is "welcome" there or doesn't feel intrusive or ignored. There's other 12 step groups around sexual abuse that I tried for a while and gave me a sense that I am on the spectrum of abuse and there are "worse" cases than mine and "milder" cases than mine but it made me feel very acceptable as I am. A lot of people in both these fellowships talk about being inauthentic and performing rather than actually living.

Through this site I found a free healing circle group based in NYC called Healing Waters. It's all virtual now due to covid and I'm on my second circle. First time was mixed gender and now I'm with men. Every time I go into a new group, my guard is up and takes a couple of weeks to go down. I know that now. I didn't know until now that I used to have such a strong guard up that it would barely come down at all and I would flee quickly and I don't anymore and my guard is coming down much quicker because I've become much more accurate in who to trust to go deeper with due to experience.

I did a lot to get here. I went through other 12 step groups that were behavior and substance to get here where I could deal with deeper stuff. I've committed to finding ways to get out from under defining myself based on what happened decades ago and untangling my identity that became associated with my abuse. That's what I'm doing now. I'm probably going to do short term therapy that is targeted and have other groups that I'm tangentially involved in that deal with some side issues related to abuse. I tried some mens group called Mankind Project to be among other guys who want to talk with other guys openly. It wasn't my thing but I was willing to try.

It feels like the clock is ticking for me to deal with stuff. I used my covid time to develop and try new things and for years before that I did not do try new things. It's been a series of decisions with no road map.

 

[Visitor]

Ed, I believe the name is HiddenWater, not Healing Waters. Perhaps you mentioned it elsewhere but someone did and I checked them out. Thanks for the reminder. They appear to be doing some amazing work. I really want to take a closer look.

 

[EdfromNYC]

Visitor, you're correct. It is Hidden Water. I highly recommend it. It's a different structure than anything I've been in before and it allows for a different type of healing. It's not therapy - which is a good thing. It doesn't have that focus. It's gentler but also freer. If something came out of it for you that would be great.

 

[takingitslow]

I too have missed out on a lot in the last 10 years in regards to jobs/dating/enjoying life.

It was only yesterday that I had the realisation that I’m a highly sensitive person and I have been coping and surviving by acting insensitive. My propensity to violence, words with daggers and crude humour have all been inauthentic.

I always thought because my abuser was a monster with his mannerisms that I knew what a monster was but I wouldn’t be one. But all along It’s like I ve been living as two people depending on the situation and the insensitive arsehole side of me has been the dominant personality and led me down a short term, constantly unfulfilled way of life but it kept me alive.

I think moving forward I need to reconnect with my sensitive nature and incorporate that in my approach to career/dating/friendship. The only advantage I have is that I have a objective cruel persona who I need to keep on the passenger seat and only bring him out if I m in danger.

I have a lot of work ahead of me to forge a life im happy with but I’m going to embrace that I’m actually a very sensitive man more so than just a cold, bitter and vengeful figure.

take care all
Dan.