All Adult Sexual Acting Out is An Attempt To Reconnect With Ourselves

All Adult Sexual Acting Out is An Attempt To Reconnect With Ourselves
@MO-Survivor,
  • Behavioral observation: masturbation with or without porn - was and still is a way of feeling "connection" with someone - even if it's just in our minds. That teen kid I was struggled so much with trying to connect intimately, and this became a way to soothe the lonely / alone feelings. But I don't have to continue to use this mechanism any longer - I have a wife and people in my life I can truly (and safely) connect with

Thank you for this! I’m finally realizing this very same behavioral observation. I think it’s spot on. It’s a good feeling after so many years of the cycle(s). LRD
 
I’ve actually thought some of the same. I did a lot of acting out through anonymous gay sex. Was everyone I was acting out with also CSA survivors acting out their own abuse? If not, how do you categorize them? Where do they fall in any spectrum of sexuality? Were all of my abusers victims too? If not, what is the genesis of their behavior?

I have already written here that only 3% of the entire world population are pedophiles and that they are addicted. Nothing will change their abusive behavior, not even chemotherapy.

This data is official since 2006. Also I believe its the same today and it remains the same.

Yet 3% worldwide its not much but victims learn that its how sexuality should be. On the other hand what is, I would say not wonderful no it is very sad, but that since MeToo, there is a denunciation to crack down on sexual abuse. There is a community that wants it to stop this sexual abuse now.

My granddaughter who is 6 years old and in first grade, knows very well how to tell someone she trusts that they have touched her in a way that she did not want. Also she knows what is a good touch and a bad touch.

At school in her sex education class, they explain to her that her vulva or her buttocks should not be touched without her consent. Me with her and my daughter and my son-in-law without undoing what school taught her I simply told her that it was true what her education teacher shared with her, but that also if a friend an adult rubbed her knee and she didn't like it that it was abuse. I explain to her that her whole body belongs to her completely.

Even for giving them a kiss I ask their permission. However, I know it's due to my own sexual abuse and I am ok whit that.
Take care and your love ones,
Jp
 
Behavioral observation: masturbation with or without porn - was and still is a way of feeling "connection" with someone - even if it's just in our minds. That teen kid I was struggled so much with trying to connect intimately, and this became a way to soothe the lonely / alone feelings. But I don't have to continue to use this mechanism any longer - I have a wife and people in my life I can truly (and safely) connect with
It is connection, even if it's just in our minds.
I find there are productive and non-productive connections through masturbation.
Fantasizing about the abuse, I feel, while normal, serves to build that connection with the abuser.
Fantasizing about the past keeps you in the past.
Fantasizing with porn builds a connection to unrealistic attitudes about sex.

I struggle with all of these. I struggle because they leave me filled with guilt and shame.
But what I find doesn't leave me worse off is what I'll call "mindful masturbation."
A focus only on oneself, or on fantasies of your intimate partner, in a positive, loving way.
It can take effort to keep focus, but it is worth it.
 
It is connection, even if it's just in our minds.
I find there are productive and non-productive connections through masturbation.
Fantasizing about the abuse, I feel, while normal, serves to build that connection with the abuser.
Fantasizing about the past keeps you in the past.
Fantasizing with porn builds a connection to unrealistic attitudes about sex.

I struggle with all of these. I struggle because they leave me filled with guilt and shame.
But what I find doesn't leave me worse off is what I'll call "mindful masturbation."
A focus only on oneself, or on fantasies of your intimate partner, in a positive, loving way.
It can take effort to keep focus, but it is worth it.
Thank you @savage_sid. You are spot on in this assessment. I love what you said here - each point regards a different aspect of fantasy and masturbation - all so very true.

And yes - the times I am able to focus on my wife in those moments can be productive, but yes - it takes focus. Of course, all the better for both of us when we can engage together in the room instead of just in my mind ;)
 
Thank you @savage_sid. You are spot on in this assessment. I love what you said here - each point regards a different aspect of fantasy and masturbation - all so very true.

And yes - the times I am able to focus on my wife in those moments can be productive, but yes - it takes focus. Of course, all the better for both of us when we can engage together in the room instead of just in my mind ;)
I'm happy for you that you have that ability.
At the moment I'm working on rebuilding my relationship with my wife, so alone is all I have.
 
I'm happy for you that you have that ability.
At the moment I'm working on rebuilding my relationship with my wife, so alone is all I have.
Good for you man. Trust me - the intimate part of our relationship isn't perfect either. But my wife is very patient, compassionate and understanding right now as I continue to work on me in therapy. We're all still finding our way to freedom (from the past) and connection (with the present).
 
FYI - I had a significant breakthrough yesterday with the teen kid in me :) We finally really connected! I was undone by it, honestly. There was so much emotion that I was actually "shivering" like sometimes happens after a really emotional thing occurs. I was glad it happened on a therapy day so I could discuss it with my T. All good - and amazing.

And just to be clear, when these parts of me connect & communicate with me - it's through dreams, feelings, or through images and words / phrases that pop into my head. Any actual conversation is typically one way - me to him. Because I'm sure people will wonder what "connecting" and "communicating" with fragments of ourselves looks like. That said, I do know people who have had back and forth conversations too - so it's probably different for different people.

I have pondered sharing the details of yesterday's breakthrough here. But... that teen kid is finally just now willing to trust me with all this. And I feel like I need to honor that part of me and the confidence of things at this point. The little kid - I don't think he cared. He wanted to be "seen" so badly - he would have reached out and told anyone who would listen. But I think as a teen, I would have been terribly apprehensive and wouldn't have wanted anyone to know any of this. Kind of sounds silly to my adult self since I'm dealing with fragments of myself - not multiple personalities (thankfully) - but I think it's important to honor confidence with him right now. I'm sure I'll share more at some point down the road.

Thanks.
 
I’m sorry I couldn’t read all the comments in thread! I really tried! It’s just I don’t do well in convo discuss pedophiles in details at all… along with some other topics… I tend to shut down quick. So I will comment on a few things I read and I’m sorry if I missed any clarification or come off like a complete a-hole!

First OP, the way you talked about the fracture self really is something that I realize maybe me… I have myself at different stages is in constant battle with the the kid me from the abuse! Normally I can quieten it all down but when I spiral it gets out of control and I have too many thoughts about the same topic to really focus and it overloads me!

Because I started hating myself for going to the third guy I shut my sexuality off! It was isolated and so restricted that I really didn’t explore more till coming out… so some of the points people make I don’t get! Acting out as an adult… I’ve had hook up encounters that I think weren’t the best choices but even those I don’t feel was an act of me repeating the abuse… I will say I’ve saw porn related to things people have done on hookups that were not ok and they knew it was a no for before they did it and it freaked me out and between those connections there was a response that I’m not sure I like but even then keeping it moving…

Then the topic of inappropriate thoughts really don’t know what to say to express my feelings on that… they are so jumbled. Like intellectually I understand things that I’ve read and discussed with my therapist, it’s just personally my brain doesn’t comprehend it! I had a reoccurring dream about the first guy who abused me… about him coming and taking me to do it again! When I did I’d norm crawl in my brothers bed, hide behind him under the covers completely so when he came he would see me! Then one night (this was while the other situation was happening) I was laying behind my brother under the cover barely breathing and it hit me… if he didn’t see me, he may take him! He wouldn’t be able to handle that… he was already preaching in childrens church and what that man did would be too much! So I crawled to the front of the bed and sat up that night crying staring at the door… waiting for that man to come so I could go with him… I covered my brother up completely hoping he wouldn’t even notice him… that’s was how I felt then… and it’s never changed! I’ve always been the one to stop my life to do what ever I needed to for those around and help in anyway… I mean even animals lol I buy 25 lbs of cat food every other week and I don’t own a cat! There are just strays around my house and I can’t not feed them… I go through a drive through and pass a homeless person… if I don’t have any money I hand them the bag because I can’t eat it knowing they are there hungry… that is just my nature… I mean even as a little kid I’d cry if a kid stepped on an ant bed because they messed up their house! And if I did… I waited for them to find me based on my shoe prints and bite me… was always convinced when I randomly got into ants that I must have stepped on their house and not realized it… so I truly don’t understand it… it breaks my heart…

gonna stop here for the moment… may come back but need a breather on the topic. Sorry for dumping this… I really am not judging any posts her just sharing my thoughts… I really hope I didn’t over step!
 
I’m sorry I couldn’t read all the comments in thread! I really tried! It’s just I don’t do well in convo discuss pedophiles in details at all… along with some other topics… I tend to shut down quick. So I will comment on a few things I read and I’m sorry if I missed any clarification or come off like a complete a-hole!

First OP, the way you talked about the fracture self really is something that I realize maybe me… I have myself at different stages is in constant battle with the the kid me from the abuse! Normally I can quieten it all down but when I spiral it gets out of control and I have too many thoughts about the same topic to really focus and it overloads me!

Because I started hating myself for going to the third guy I shut my sexuality off! It was isolated and so restricted that I really didn’t explore more till coming out… so some of the points people make I don’t get! Acting out as an adult… I’ve had hook up encounters that I think weren’t the best choices but even those I don’t feel was an act of me repeating the abuse… I will say I’ve saw porn related to things people have done on hookups that were not ok and they knew it was a no for before they did it and it freaked me out and between those connections there was a response that I’m not sure I like but even then keeping it moving…

Then the topic of inappropriate thoughts really don’t know what to say to express my feelings on that… they are so jumbled. Like intellectually I understand things that I’ve read and discussed with my therapist, it’s just personally my brain doesn’t comprehend it! I had a reoccurring dream about the first guy who abused me… about him coming and taking me to do it again! When I did I’d norm crawl in my brothers bed, hide behind him under the covers completely so when he came he would see me! Then one night (this was while the other situation was happening) I was laying behind my brother under the cover barely breathing and it hit me… if he didn’t see me, he may take him! He wouldn’t be able to handle that… he was already preaching in childrens church and what that man did would be too much! So I crawled to the front of the bed and sat up that night crying staring at the door… waiting for that man to come so I could go with him… I covered my brother up completely hoping he wouldn’t even notice him… that’s was how I felt then… and it’s never changed! I’ve always been the one to stop my life to do what ever I needed to for those around and help in anyway… I mean even animals lol I buy 25 lbs of cat food every other week and I don’t own a cat! There are just strays around my house and I can’t not feed them… I go through a drive through and pass a homeless person… if I don’t have any money I hand them the bag because I can’t eat it knowing they are there hungry… that is just my nature… I mean even as a little kid I’d cry if a kid stepped on an ant bed because they messed up their house! And if I did… I waited for them to find me based on my shoe prints and bite me… was always convinced when I randomly got into ants that I must have stepped on their house and not realized it… so I truly don’t understand it… it breaks my heart…

gonna stop here for the moment… may come back but need a breather on the topic. Sorry for dumping this… I really am not judging any posts her just sharing my thoughts… I really hope I didn’t over step!
Hey @Imstillstanding, your response was fine. I thought you came across well.

A couple things in response. First of all, this thread is in no way a discussion on pedophiles or pedophila. The fact those comments were inserted in this thread was due to a misunderstanding and a sensitivity to that topic by the post-er. So let's please drop this idea in this thread that what I posted has anything to do with that. Apologies if those comments threw you off, but they were not my comments.

In response to some of the previous comments you glanced through, I added the following notes at the top of the original post:

"Note: some clarifications up-front for this post:​
  • I am only speaking here about male survivors of CSA
  • "Acting Out" = acting out our sexual abuse, or sexual acting out as a result of the consequences of sexual abuse
    • "Adult Sexual Acting Out" does not include all adult sexual activity
  • The "Puberty / Sexual Development" thread can take different paths for the non-CSA survivor. In fact, the non-CSA survivor picture is only one possible view of someone who doesn't experience CSA. Threads can get twisted by other things too
  • Sexual development can happen for the CSA survivor outside of CSA-related issues. However, most of the time it still gets entangled with the other threads where sexual intimacy happened too early and in a f'd up way (as CSA)"
You said: "I’ve had hook up encounters that I think weren’t the best choices but even those I don’t feel was an act of me repeating the abuse." My note above attempts to address that. My sexual relationship with my wife is also not an attempt to repeat my abuse. Some of our own sexual development has occurred in many of us - so, therefore, not all adult sexual activity = acting out or repeating the abuse.

Also, depending on where you are in the therapeutic & healing process, a lot of this may not make sense. And that's not a condescending statement - it's based on my own observations of myself and the realization that even up to a year ago, a post like this probably wouldn't have made much sense to me at all - maybe on the surface, but it would have seemed very abstract to me.

I hope all that helps. Thank you for your thoughtful response!
 
Hey @Imstillstanding, your response was fine. I thought you came across well.

A couple things in response. First of all, this thread is in no way a discussion on pedophiles or pedophila. The fact those comments were inserted in this thread was due to a misunderstanding and a sensitivity to that topic by the post-er. So let's please drop this idea in this thread that what I posted has anything to do with that. Apologies if those comments threw you off, but they were not my comments.

In response to some of the previous comments you glanced through, I added the following notes at the top of the original post:

"Note: some clarifications up-front for this post:​
  • I am only speaking here about male survivors of CSA
  • "Acting Out" = acting out our sexual abuse, or sexual acting out as a result of the consequences of sexual abuse
    • "Adult Sexual Acting Out" does not include all adult sexual activity
  • The "Puberty / Sexual Development" thread can take different paths for the non-CSA survivor. In fact, the non-CSA survivor picture is only one possible view of someone who doesn't experience CSA. Threads can get twisted by other things too
  • Sexual development can happen for the CSA survivor outside of CSA-related issues. However, most of the time it still gets entangled with the other threads where sexual intimacy happened too early and in a f'd up way (as CSA)"
You said: "I’ve had hook up encounters that I think weren’t the best choices but even those I don’t feel was an act of me repeating the abuse." My note above attempts to address that. My sexual relationship with my wife is also not an attempt to repeat my abuse. Some of our own sexual development has occurred in many of us - so, therefore, not all adult sexual activity = acting out or repeating the abuse.

Also, depending on where you are in the therapeutic & healing process, a lot of this may not make sense. And that's not a condescending statement - it's based on my own observations of myself and the realization that even up to a year ago, a post like this probably wouldn't have made much sense to me at all - maybe on the surface, but it would have seemed very abstract to me.

I hope all that helps. Thank you for your thoughtful response!
I don’t think I clearly communicated everything… I read your entire first post and really thought it was done well… including that bit you shared… I was prob trying to talk myself into believing that all of my hook ups were unrelated to stuff that’s happened… yea I was def trying to do that and it was an epic fail! While most I feel perfectly fine about… there are a few that have been red flags for me.

I’ve been doing therapy for years and I’ve done emdr therapy which was super helpful! I’ve just kinda spiraled a bit recently so getting back at it! My therapist pointed out how after the first abuse when I told mom and she was throwing up I rubbed her back… that was just what I thought you should do… he pointed out I was consoling her on my abuse situation when it should have been the other way and I’ve been stuck in that kinda pattern most of life I guess… so I think I’m just wired differently than most… I don’t know!
 
I don’t think I clearly communicated everything… I read your entire first post and really thought it was done well… including that bit you shared… I was prob trying to talk myself into believing that all of my hook ups were unrelated to stuff that’s happened… yea I was def trying to do that and it was an epic fail! While most I feel perfectly fine about… there are a few that have been red flags for me.

I’ve been doing therapy for years and I’ve done emdr therapy which was super helpful! I’ve just kinda spiraled a bit recently so getting back at it! My therapist pointed out how after the first abuse when I told mom and she was throwing up I rubbed her back… that was just what I thought you should do… he pointed out I was consoling her on my abuse situation when it should have been the other way and I’ve been stuck in that kinda pattern most of life I guess… so I think I’m just wired differently than most… I don’t know!
@Imstillstanding - I went back and read your previous post and this one. I know things can be overwhelming; the abuse itself and then the consequences of it. I'm sorry for what you went through and for the lasting (negative) effects in your life. And then to have to deal with the constant questions about "going back" to your abuser, volunteering yourself in order to save your brother, and how that translates now into trying to save everyone (animals included), etc. :) These things can bring feelings of shame which piles onto the overwhelming feelings. That and trying to sort through our motivations for sexual activity & sexual acting out - it can all be too much.

I think the thing I want you and others to read from this post the most is this: there is hope. And we are not horrible, sick people. Yes, there is much we don't understand about ourselves: the self-hatred, the repetitive acting out through masturbation and / or porn, the Same Sex Attraction (which is due to same-sex abuse, but can also precede and blend into sexual preferences), inappropriate thoughts - whether they are thoughts of us being in the victim role and being abused again, or whether they are thoughts of acting things out like our perpetrator did. All these things feel horrible. We don't want them. They do not define who we are. And yet... we are plagued by them and they fill us with anger, hatred, guilt, and shame. How do we break free from them?

And the want to not tie our behaviors and thoughts to what happened to us? That is probably the child need we all had to be "normal." We just want to be "normal" - like all the other boys. We knew we weren't "normal" because of what we went through - but we strove for it regardless. And yes - we still want to be "normal," not have to deal with all this crap and live a normal life. Isn't that what we say? "I just want to live a normal life."

This post attempts to explain the tangled nature of some aspects of our development that contributed to being plagued by these things. And then I try to paint a picture of the exit strategy from that plague. Because if we can understand, empathize, and then meet the needs of the boy / teen within us that have been with us for so long and continue to drive our behaviors - we really can be free; and free from it all. It takes time, work, and gaining a deeper understanding of ourselves. And no doubt - looking inside at this stuff can be scary.
 
@Imstillstanding - I went back and read your previous post and this one. I know things can be overwhelming; the abuse itself and then the consequences of it. I'm sorry for what you went through and for the lasting (negative) effects in your life. And then to have to deal with the constant questions about "going back" to your abuser, volunteering yourself in order to save your brother, and how that translates now into trying to save everyone (animals included), etc. :) These things can bring feelings of shame which piles onto the overwhelming feelings. That and trying to sort through our motivations for sexual activity & sexual acting out - it can all be too much.

I think the thing I want you and others to read from this post the most is this: there is hope. And we are not horrible, sick people. Yes, there is much we don't understand about ourselves: the self-hatred, the repetitive acting out through masturbation and / or porn, the Same Sex Attraction (which is due to same-sex abuse, but can also precede and blend into sexual preferences), inappropriate thoughts - whether they are thoughts of us being in the victim role and being abused again, or whether they are thoughts of acting things out like our perpetrator did. All these things feel horrible. We don't want them. They do not define who we are. And yet... we are plagued by them and they fill us with anger, hatred, guilt, and shame. How do we break free from them?

And the want to not tie our behaviors and thoughts to what happened to us? That is probably the child need we all had to be "normal." We just want to be "normal" - like all the other boys. We knew we weren't "normal" because of what we went through - but we strove for it regardless. And yes - we still want to be "normal," not have to deal with all this crap and live a normal life. Isn't that what we say? "I just want to live a normal life."

This post attempts to explain the tangled nature of some aspects of our development that contributed to being plagued by these things. And then I try to paint a picture of the exit strategy from that plague. Because if we can understand, empathize, and then meet the needs of the boy / teen within us that have been with us for so long and continue to drive our behaviors - we really can be free; and free from it all. It takes time, work, and gaining a deeper understanding of ourselves. And no doubt - looking inside at this stuff can be scary.
@MO-Survivor, thank you for this most recent post. Sometimes we need to hear it over and over, at least I do. Knowing what we have to do to heal and getting there are hard to connect. I appreciate all your posts and the work you have put in to healing yourself and the willingness to share that experience with all of us.
Thank you
JBP
 
@MO-Survivor the way you write is very interesting! It’s informative yet personable and I appreciate that! I’ll close out saying I’m not familiar with all your postings being new but I am planning to go and read some… like I said I appreciate how you write. Our posts can’t include tone and inflection so it can be hard sometimes to really pick up on the subtlety of phrases. And then we each bring our own experiences (good and bad) to the table and read each line through those lenses… like for me even the mention of masturbation, porn, and same-sex attraction in your reply received a negative response from me lol whether warranted or not it was there. I’m proud of my sexuality! It took me a long time to claim it! I’m happy I am sex positive and can really be in the moment and enjoy solo time and even porn. These are things it took me time to really sort out. So I’m gonna read some of your other posts and if it’s ok I may pm you some clarifying questions and general thoughts because I want to make sure I am fully understanding and also filling respecting your process :) I also feel I sound like an idiot and will have less pressure there hahaha but if that makes uncomfortable let me know! No pressure either way! Again thanks for the back and forth.
 
@MO-Survivor, thank you for this most recent post. Sometimes we need to hear it over and over, at least I do. Knowing what we have to do to heal and getting there are hard to connect. I appreciate all your posts and the work you have put in to healing yourself and the willingness to share that experience with all of us.
Thank you
JBP
Thanks JBP. Yeah - we all have to hear things over and over I'm afraid. And the getting there - takes time and effort. Today with my therapist we revisited grief. It seems like something I shouldn't have to spend time on, and yet - there I was today. One of our bunnies (with us for 10 years) died on Saturday after showing signs he was heading that way for a couple weeks. He was just old. I find that I'm the one who gets to nurse the old pets in their old age - which is fine with me. Of course, it makes it that much harder when they die - but I would never want another person or animal to be alone in their suffering. That's a theme, isn't it? We know how it feels to be alone in suffering and have great empathy.

Anyway, my T said today that, "deferred grief will come out when we're finally in a place where we are able to and allow ourselves to feel." Consequently, things like the death of a pet - now that I'm feeling so much more than before - creates in me a sizeable mountain of grief. My younger daughter, who is a lot like me in personality, grieves in much the same way but I find myself "projecting" on her some. Because she has the ability to express her grief, and she has the support and comfort of my wife and I, and her sister. I am always so afraid she will be so overwhelmed by events like Saturday that she will be "wounded" and carry it with her for years and years. But... that's me projecting myself on her. Because thinking back to other losses she's faced - she's come through them okay. Of course she gets sad still thinking about it - like anyone else - but she doesn't carry a mountain of deferred grief like I do.

Again - thank you for the encouragement. I am so very, very thankful for you guys.
 
@MO-Survivor the way you write is very interesting! It’s informative yet personable and I appreciate that! I’ll close out saying I’m not familiar with all your postings being new but I am planning to go and read some… like I said I appreciate how you write. Our posts can’t include tone and inflection so it can be hard sometimes to really pick up on the subtlety of phrases. And then we each bring our own experiences (good and bad) to the table and read each line through those lenses… like for me even the mention of masturbation, porn, and same-sex attraction in your reply received a negative response from me lol whether warranted or not it was there. I’m proud of my sexuality! It took me a long time to claim it! I’m happy I am sex positive and can really be in the moment and enjoy solo time and even porn. These are things it took me time to really sort out. So I’m gonna read some of your other posts and if it’s ok I may pm you some clarifying questions and general thoughts because I want to make sure I am fully understanding and also filling respecting your process :) I also feel I sound like an idiot and will have less pressure there hahaha but if that makes uncomfortable let me know! No pressure either way! Again thanks for the back and forth.
Thanks @Imstillstanding - for recognizing the limitations of written communication :) Because yeah - there's no body language, no tone, no inflection, and it can be all too easy like you said - to read things into written statements that are not really there from the writer.

I can honestly tell you that I am very happy for you that you are content with the aspects of your sexuality. There are a lot of posts on this site that bounce around whether Childhood Sexual Abuse (CSA) is responsible for x, y, and z - and what things are okay and not okay: "Did it make me gay?" "Is masturbation helpful or harmful?" "Is Same Sex Attraction (SSA) the same as being gay, or is it different?" "Is porn helpful to you or is it destructive?" Most authors and responders here try to be pretty value-neutral, while at the same time enjoying the freedom to express their own, individual views on things. I've by and large seen a lot of encouragement and respect from guys - regardless of their own views or how things apply to themselves. All this is as it should be on a site like this. We all come here as wounded kids in adult bodies. And just like with any kid (especially hurting ones) - I would never want them to leave after talking with me feeling worse about themselves. On the contrary - my heart's desire is to connect with them, encourage them, and say, "Yes! You can!" to those things they want most. Here, on Male Survivor, the things guys want most:
  • To be "seen" and heard
  • To know they are no longer alone
  • To receive love, empathy, and encouragement
  • To get solid advice on a multitude of things
  • And maybe... just maybe... to build relationships with guys they never dreamed they would know
You are very welcome to PM me anytime you like, and I will respond. In fact, I very much look forward to it.
- MO
 
My teen self and I decided to go ahead and share the dream we had about a month after the original post in this thread. Before, I felt this was too intimate and I didn't want to betray the trust we finally established.

This dream illustrates and highlights several aspects of the original post, as my heart and mind have attempted to work through these things. I have highlighted the aspects I believe are applicable to the original post in red:

4/19/2022 – Healing the Connection with my Teen Self​

I was my adult self this whole dream. For some reason I was traveling with Christopher and his younger brother Michael. Christopher was a kid I knew in my neighborhood. He was about 4 years younger than me and was on the swim team with me when I was 16 and he was 12. I babysit him and his brother and sister a few times. His younger brother was about 4-5 years younger than him. I always liked Christopher and wanted to act out with him but never did. And I didn’t get to be his counselor for 6th grade camp but wished I had been. I’m pretty sure he represented my teen self and Michael represented my younger, 5-11-year-old self.
We stopped late in the evening at a college campus and stayed in a dorm room that was kind of like a hotel. Once we got to our room, we laid on the floor to go to sleep (apparently there were no beds?). Michael - the younger brother was off by himself and slept soundly. In fact, Michael slept peacefully the entire dream, which is confirmation to me that my young, 5 to 11-year-old self, is largely healed and re-connected with me. But Christopher, age 13 and representing my teen self, was dozing next to me. At some point Christopher snuggled up on top of me, still asleep, and I found myself getting aroused. I put my hand on him to be more intimate as he slept. He stirred and moved my hand off him. But then… he started kissing me - intimate kissing. I didn’t stop it right away. But then I did stop it, and I got up while he went back to sleep.​
I went downstairs to the dorm / hotel’s front desk area to get food from the little pantry you find in many hotels. I grabbed a bag of Cheetos and opened it before paying and ate some of them because I was so hungry. When I went to pay, I realized I had forgotten my wallet and so I set the bag down by the register. I told the woman at the desk (I’m pretty sure she represented my therapist) I was really sorry, but I would be right back down to pay. She was so nice and said it was no problem. She wasn’t scared I wouldn’t pay. But then I realized I’d also forgotten my room key and I had to also ask her for a key. Again, she was not bothered by me asking. She asked my last name and gave me a Master key (not just the one to my room). Inexplicably though, I then couldn’t remember my room # and I had to ask her for my room # too. She told me I was on floor 3 1/2 - which was weird - and we were staying in room 402. Floor 3 1/2? What is that all about? After I awoke from the dream, I pondered this, and what resonated with me was this: I think I was 3 1/2 when my dad started abusing me. This has been a question I’ve had my whole life but have never known. And I think my subconscious decided for whatever reason to serve up the answer in this dream. Room 402? The only significance of 402 is it is a family member's birthday - but I couldn't think of why that would be thrown in this dream.​
I got on the elevator to ride up and pressed the 3 1/2 button (yep, there was actually a 3 1/2 button ). A bunch of guys got on the elevator with me. Disappointingly, the elevator had to first go down to the basement before it went up (when I told my wife about this dream, she told me this made sense: before we can go up to re-connect with our parts of self, sometimes we have to go down into the darker places first). The elevator then stopped on the floor before mine and these guys were all talking and getting both off and on the elevator (again, they were all guys). And they were standing in the elevator doorway while talking and were really slowing things down for me since the elevator couldn't move while they were in the doorway. I thought I recognized someone (a neighbor from my childhood who lived on the street behind me) but it wasn’t him when I looked more closely. Frustrated, I finally said out loud, “Dang guys. This would be much easier and faster if I just took the stairs!” The guys laughed at that. And then several guys asked me if I was from South America because how I said that made me sound like I had a South American accent. Huh? The only thought I had later about this was my mind was reflecting out loud that my adult self was heavily influenced by my very good friend I met when I was 18. This friend grew up in South America.​
After finishing this conversation, I left the elevator and took the stairs. It was so much faster. I remember thinking in the dream as I tried to find my room how it would have been better to just have a key to my specific room instead of a Master key because I was having difficulty again remembering my room number. I was afraid the Master key would open any door I thought was mine and I’d end up in the wrong room (in someone else’s room). I think this reflected the desire in me to unlock only my kid and teen selves’ door, and the fear I would end up trying to unlock and connect with them – but by connecting with someone else (which would not resolve anything). While thinking this and while trying to get back to the room where the boys were sleeping, all of a sudden someone started attacking me. I could not see them, but the bullets were definitely flying at me. In a panic, I ran all the way down the stairs and out of the building.​
I found myself outside my building in a treed area between buildings – like what you see on many college campuses. And walking down the street were the guys ultimately responsible for the attack in the hallway. One was red and one was blue. The blue guy strangely had no head. I don’t think this imagery is that important and is probably a leftover from watching Fringe the night before. I was definitely scared of these guys, and I hid behind a tree and stayed out of their line of sight while they passed by. I crept forward slowly as they moved by to stay out of their line of sight. I really didn’t want them to see me or in any way get their attention. I finally came out from behind the tree because they had passed completely by and made my way towards the other building - but then someone started shooting at me again! So I ran back into the building I started in.​
I went back up to my room - but I don’t remember getting there. I was just in the room again. The boys were sleeping soundly, and I went into the bathroom because I was a little rattled by everything that had happened. I looked at my face in the mirror, but oddly it didn’t look quite like me. I recall telling myself that I looked very tired - in an effort to explain my strange appearance in the mirror. Then I looked down and away from the mirror and then back up again to try and “reset” the image of myself to normal. But every time I would look down and then back up at myself, my face changed slightly from before. And every time it still wasn’t me. I think there were maybe five slightly different faces of me in the mirror – each one was a distorted image of me. This began to get disturbing, so at that point I started trying to awaken from my dream. But while trying to wake up, I had a bit of sleep paralysis, and I couldn’t wake up right away. Then finally, I woke up. I don’t know the significance of the faces not being me. Or perhaps, maybe I didn’t want to know (that thought crossed my mind when I thought about it).​
Once I was awake in real life, I went downstairs to write down this all out because I had laid in bed trying to make myself remember so I could go back to sleep. But while trying to memorize the dream, I could feel the details of the dream fading away because I wanted to drift back to sleep so badly.​
Once I had written out the entire dream, I took some time to think about it to figure out what each element in the dream might represent. And then I talked with my teen self; we had a conversation. I told him that our connection does not always have to be sexualized. There doesn’t need to be sexual touching or kissing in these dreams for us to connect. Instead, I said told him that I will hold him, I’ll put my arm around him, or I’ll even kiss him on the head when he needs to feel connected and loved. He gave me the thought of holding his hand, but I didn’t like that idea. I thought holding his hand would look and feel gay (Note: this is not a statement about people who are gay; rather, this is a personal preference for me and my teen kid who are heterosexual). But he kept going back to the idea of holding his hand. So I finally agreed we could do that, and that it could be a way of him showing me he needs affection and connection if he grabbed and held my hand in a dream.​
I did feel from my teen self that he was very afraid when I started talking about not needing the sexual aspect of connecting. He was very, very afraid of losing the only means of deep connection he ever knew. It was the only thing that ever made him feel deeply connected with someone and alleviated his feelings of being so very alone. So I tried to reassure him that we could still connect deeply without sexualizing things. And I felt he tentatively accepted it and is willing to try to connect without sexualizing things as we go forward.​
Finally, I told my teen self that I love him, and I really will be here for him when he needs me. I felt like he received everything I said this morning. But I also feel he still isn’t at peace or settled like his younger, 5-11-year-old self. But he does trust me now.​
This dream was so deeply emotional that I had a physiological response to all this when I was done writing. I was so emotionally overwhelmed that I was even shaking / shivering a bit. But that’s okay. Because I know this dream was deeply significant in helping me connect with my teen self.
 
Adding to what you wrote: someone in a chatroom I am involved with shared this with me.

Shadow Work

Perhaps worthy of an independent post altogether, What it describes is working with the parts of ourselves we find unacceptable, that we find hard to engage with.

When we become men, we attempt to, as the saying goes "Put aside childish things". We are also different people from a self we formerly were.

Nevertheless, we retain the memory of being boys, and the memory of our boyhood, and what we learned during boys, remains with us and informs the reality of our nearer pasts and presents. Backtracking through that to figure out "Why do I react this way" "Why do I think this way" "Why is my life going in this direction" is hard work.

I think that an important part of recognizing that we would like to see our lives change for the better involves these steps:
1. That wrong and harm were done
2. That it affected patterns of thought and reactions to emotions
3. That it has a further detrimental effect.

So this is how I interpret the OP.
That in order for a boy to have a healthy perception of himself, and of emotional, physical, and sexual needs, that boy has to have safety yet also encouragement to grow. CSA interrupts and corrupts this process. Part of the process of healing is unlearning bad lessons and then learning good ones. This is the difficult path ahead for all of us.
 
Adding to what you wrote: someone in a chatroom I am involved with shared this with me.

Shadow Work

Perhaps worthy of an independent post altogether, What it describes is working with the parts of ourselves we find unacceptable, that we find hard to engage with.

When we become men, we attempt to, as the saying goes "Put aside childish things". We are also different people from a self we formerly were.

Nevertheless, we retain the memory of being boys, and the memory of our boyhood, and what we learned during boys, remains with us and informs the reality of our nearer pasts and presents. Backtracking through that to figure out "Why do I react this way" "Why do I think this way" "Why is my life going in this direction" is hard work.

I think that an important part of recognizing that we would like to see our lives change for the better involves these steps:
1. That wrong and harm were done
2. That it affected patterns of thought and reactions to emotions
3. That it has a further detrimental effect.

So this is how I interpret the OP.
That in order for a boy to have a healthy perception of himself, and of emotional, physical, and sexual needs, that boy has to have safety yet also encouragement to grow. CSA interrupts and corrupts this process. Part of the process of healing is unlearning bad lessons and then learning good ones. This is the difficult path ahead for all of us.
Celtaf,

Right up front I want to say: please don't read my response below as dismissive or argumentative at all. I'm simply thinking out loud here and comparing / contrasting the article (not your words) with what I'm sharing in this post :)

Yes, there is a lot of truth in what you say and this is definitely a layer we have to address as we work to connect with our younger selves. There are beliefs and emotions about ourselves, about others, and about what we believe to be true (things like what we believe about sexuality) that are held within our younger selves that aren't in line with what we may know to be true as adults. Yet, because those beliefs and emotions we had as children remain with us (as you said) in an unresolved state, they continue to leak through and affect our current thoughts and emotions - even if we cognitively know things are different than those childhood feelings and beliefs.

I looked at the "Shadow Work" article and there is a lot of what I think is good, pertinent information. Thank you, @Celtaf, for sharing it! I will say that as a former psych student, Carl Jung has always been my least favorite theorist. The idea of a "collective unconscious" or a "collective memory" has always seemed far-fetched to me because it doesn't line up with what we know about physical development (we don't inherit memory from our parents). A "collective unconscious / memory" is somewhat of a real thing - external to us - in terms of shared culture. But in my opinion, that's where it ends. Because of this - I kind of ignore most things Jungian.

That said, we can usually find useful, true information from almost all alternate sources of ideas - and like I said at the start, there are still some good truths in the article.

One major difference I can also see between the article and what I'm wanting to say here: the article is rather CBT-ish in that the technique being employed is: understand your current-state feelings and beliefs, look back at the source of those feelings and beliefs even if it's from childhood, and then trying to change the current feelings and beliefs by trying to change the kid beliefs. It feels like a heavy cognitive exercise vs. a heavy relational exercise. The work of connection with our fragmented kid selves, at least for me, has been a very relational thing. I've done plenty of cognitive work like the article talks about before - and I honestly haven't changed that much. But when I began personifying my younger self and incorporating relationship (like I would build relationship with anyone else) with those younger selves into my healing work, I was better able to feel and understand that younger kid's beliefs and feelings at my core. The work became more "real." Given the trust issues (which we had for good reason) for our kid selves, I think there has to be an element of trust-building for change to happen. I hope this makes sense?

Anyway... those are my thoughts for what they are worth.
 
Celtaf,

Right up front I want to say: please don't read my response below as dismissive or argumentative at all. I'm simply thinking out loud here and comparing / contrasting the article (not your words) with what I'm sharing in this post :)

Yes, there is a lot of truth in what you say and this is definitely a layer we have to address as we work to connect with our younger selves. There are beliefs and emotions about ourselves, about others, and about what we believe to be true (things like what we believe about sexuality) that are held within our younger selves that aren't in line with what we may know to be true as adults. Yet, because those beliefs and emotions we had as children remain with us (as you said) in an unresolved state, they continue to leak through and affect our current thoughts and emotions - even if we cognitively know things are different than those childhood feelings and beliefs.

I looked at the "Shadow Work" article and there is a lot of what I think is good, pertinent information. Thank you, @Celtaf, for sharing it! I will say that as a former psych student, Carl Jung has always been my least favorite theorist. The idea of a "collective unconscious" or a "collective memory" has always seemed far-fetched to me because it doesn't line up with what we know about physical development (we don't inherit memory from our parents). A "collective unconscious / memory" is somewhat of a real thing - external to us - in terms of shared culture. But in my opinion, that's where it ends. Because of this - I kind of ignore most things Jungian.

That said, we can usually find useful, true information from almost all alternate sources of ideas - and like I said at the start, there are still some good truths in the article.

One major difference I can also see between the article and what I'm wanting to say here: the article is rather CBT-ish in that the technique being employed is: understand your current-state feelings and beliefs, look back at the source of those feelings and beliefs even if it's from childhood, and then trying to change the current feelings and beliefs by trying to change the kid beliefs. It feels like a heavy cognitive exercise vs. a heavy relational exercise. The work of connection with our fragmented kid selves, at least for me, has been a very relational thing. I've done plenty of cognitive work like the article talks about before - and I honestly haven't changed that much. But when I began personifying my younger self and incorporating relationship (like I would build relationship with anyone else) with those younger selves into my healing work, I was better able to feel and understand that younger kid's beliefs and feelings at my core. The work became more "real." Given the trust issues (which we had for good reason) for our kid selves, I think there has to be an element of trust-building for change to happen. I hope this makes sense?

Anyway... those are my thoughts for what they are worth.
I get what you are saying, and I think that while the connections you are talking about are important, I have a lot of trouble doing them. Part of the issues for me is that it is very hard for me to build up that trust. It often feels to me like it is very hard to explain what I'm experiencing to others, particularly when it is about what I am feeling or what I have experienced. I probably have a long way to go before I am even able to accept how I feel about things. So this is part of a process I am trying to use.

As far as Jung goes, another way one can look at Jung is to see what he's saying as describing the way many people have ideas and concepts in common. Less that a shared unconscious is based on our physical relationships and more based on the commonalities of human experience. There is a human condition, and Jung's approach is a way to try to understand it.
 
I get what you are saying, and I think that while the connections you are talking about are important, I have a lot of trouble doing them. Part of the issues for me is that it is very hard for me to build up that trust. It often feels to me like it is very hard to explain what I'm experiencing to others, particularly when it is about what I am feeling or what I have experienced. I probably have a long way to go before I am even able to accept how I feel about things. So this is part of a process I am trying to use.

As far as Jung goes, another way one can look at Jung is to see what he's saying as describing the way many people have ideas and concepts in common. Less that a shared unconscious is based on our physical relationships and more based on the commonalities of human experience. There is a human condition, and Jung's approach is a way to try to understand it.
Yeah - the trust issue and admitting / accepting how we actually feel is very difficult. I've seen now that how I actually felt under the surface during my teen years was 180 degrees different than what I thought. That's still hard for me to accept, and therefore it's really hard to access those feelings.

And Jung - yeah. I hear you. I just wish sometimes people like him didn't have to resort to something so extreme like he did in a theory - in order to set themselves apart and make a name for themselves :) It's hard not to be cynical about that. Because yes - the "spirit" of what he meant I'm sure lines up with what you said. Or... he could have truly believed the idea of a shared unconscious. We can derive things from it either way.
 
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