All Adult Sexual Acting Out is An Attempt To Reconnect With Ourselves

All Adult Sexual Acting Out is An Attempt To Reconnect With Ourselves
Thank you for sharing. I look back at my life and realize acting out and coping in different ways was our way to control and temporarily feel safe. I had a woman in my life on and off throughout college and a few year after who made me feel safe. Her family was tolerant and accepting of everyone, no judgment, abuse was not part of their life nor would they tolerate it. Unfortunately, in the end it did not workout--she never married and we are friends today. I still remember the laughs and feeling of safety. I did not have that again until about 7 years ago and to this day. I think having people who do not judge or put you behind others allows us to feel safe.

Trauam is so difficult to understand. I have friends who are doctors and the admit they cannot understand--they say talk to a professional. As I was unraveling and post op nurse gave incompetent advice as to trauma. Sadly, people believe what they hear. I hold no grudge because I have learned people who advise without knowledge only show their ignorance.

I wanted to be loved in marriage but it was not meant to be as to battle a spouse who put parents and siblings first, sadly before me or children. The children do no see the damage done and none have a meaningful relationship. I look back and say I should have told of the abuse years ago, but I could not. Why I could not feel safe with myself.

It is important we look at our coping mechanisms, because most are unhealthy. Once we confess to ourselves our lives were damaged we can begin to heal--easier said than done.

I know intimacy today and in college but had gaps--sometimes in marriage I felt safe and felt intimacy until I realized I was the whipping boy to be left and to be spat, locked in a room etc because a spouse did not realize spouses are to be number one--a unit for the family.

I read this and realize I have traveled a journey that seems to never end, but one where I have found happiness, love and safety.

Kevin
Kevin, I recall reading another post where you went into detail about your marriage relationship and the family dynamics there and why it didn't work out. Yes - if spouses cannot put each other first and above their family or origin and even their kids. Although there are situations where parents need to choose their kids first - but those are scenarios like CSA and not the situations you lived through. I'm so sorry. It's easy to head into relationship with someone and not really know all the dynamics of their relationships. Or, we know some of those dynamics but believe things will change after marriage.

I'm glad you have found love and intimacy in life. Finding, losing, and finding new friendships & intimacy is something that is lifelong and never ending. People change, people leave, people die - and part of relationship is allowing those we care about to make their own choices even if that means changing the level of relational intimacy we have. Our kids are a prime example of this. So in that sense, we continually experience risk, connection, and then loss (even if the people are safe). We get the highs and lows. And oh to have a place where we don't have to live the roller coaster of it.

So yeah - coping with difficult and painful things is something we will inevitably do. Sometimes we learn and / or choose healthy ways of coping, and sometimes we don't. As CSA survivors, we entered adulthood packaged with some unhealthy ways but we can address those. And per the onion picture - we can address them at different "levels." We can try and change the surface behaviors and find another way to cope (taking out anger at a punching bag at the gym vs. a destructive way of coping with anger, for example). We can also invest the time and cost to cope via getting help to try to address the heart issues that led us to those unhealthy coping mechanisms. Again - it doesn't have to be one or the other but can be. Or it can be both.

Kudos to you and your journey; for having found happiness, love, and safety in the midst of loneliness and loss.
 
I really think Daniel, it would be of great help if we as a group could "zoom" each other in a group session. And privately once safety is assured.
@Bornfree and @DanielQ432 - you all have a great discussion going about the huge shortcomings of the mental health system in the US and elsewhere. I have seen the same. And yeah - you might think about private messaging each other here first, prior to a zoom session. Just a suggestion. Via PM's you all can build relationships & can keep the dialogue going :)
 
@Bornfree and @DanielQ432 - you all have a great discussion going about the huge shortcomings of the mental health system in the US and elsewhere. I have seen the same. And yeah - you might think about private messaging each other here first, prior to a zoom session. Just a suggestion. Via PM's you all can build relationships & can keep the dialogue going :)
Thanks MO! PM's would be a good way, and I forget about them! my darn cognition!!!
 
Kevin, I recall reading another post where you went into detail about your marriage relationship and the family dynamics there and why it didn't work out. Yes - if spouses cannot put each other first and above their family or origin and even their kids. Although there are situations where parents need to choose their kids first - but those are scenarios like CSA and not the situations you lived through. I'm so sorry. It's easy to head into relationship with someone and not really know all the dynamics of their relationships. Or, we know some of those dynamics but believe things will change after marriage.

I'm glad you have found love and intimacy in life. Finding, losing, and finding new friendships & intimacy is something that is lifelong and never ending. People change, people leave, people die - and part of relationship is allowing those we care about to make their own choices even if that means changing the level of relational intimacy we have. Our kids are a prime example of this. So in that sense, we continually experience risk, connection, and then loss (even if the people are safe). We get the highs and lows. And oh to have a place where we don't have to live the roller coaster of it.

So yeah - coping with difficult and painful things is something we will inevitably do. Sometimes we learn and / or choose healthy ways of coping, and sometimes we don't. As CSA survivors, we entered adulthood packaged with some unhealthy ways but we can address those. And per the onion picture - we can address them at different "levels." We can try and change the surface behaviors and find another way to cope (taking out anger at a punching bag at the gym vs. a destructive way of coping with anger, for example). We can also invest the time and cost to cope via getting help to try to address the heart issues that led us to those unhealthy coping mechanisms. Again - it doesn't have to be one or the other but can be. Or it can be both.

Kudos to you and your journey; for having found happiness, love, and safety in the midst of loneliness and loss.
MO-Survivor

Thank you for your kind words. Life offers challenges and opportunities. Sadly, with trauma we see life as a challenge and the opportunity seems to be elusive. Once we take control of ourselves, our environment, our relationship even if marriage or by blood, and most importantly for me--my thoughts and how I perceive myself from the abuse to today loving myself.

Healthy coping mechanisms seem obvious but sadly for survivors they are obvious instead we do not release the past instead we choose coping mechanisms that temporarily removes us from the memories, the abuses, the pain and need to control the abuse, in the end we are not free instead these negative coping mechanisms take over our lives.

I hope society including the medical profession face the truth of trauma and not allow ignorant members to say the coping mechanisms, the changes to the mind during trauma are not real. Training needs to be expanded to the medical profession, educators, social workers and others who work with children to help identify so the child can have a healthier and happier life. I have doubts as I see some around me and my own and former family who do not see their lives are not as healthy as they think.

Your words resonate with me. Thank you.

Kevin
 
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@Bornfree and @DanielQ432 - you all have a great discussion going about the huge shortcomings of the mental health system in the US and elsewhere. I have seen the same. And yeah - you might think about private messaging each other here first, prior to a zoom session. Just a suggestion. Via PM's you all can build relationships & can keep the dialogue going :)
Sorry to hijack your thread. I'm done now, I promise. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming, as they say.
 
Kevin, I recall reading another post where you went into detail about your marriage relationship and the family dynamics there and why it didn't work out. Yes - if spouses cannot put each other first and above their family or origin and even their kids. Although there are situations where parents need to choose their kids first - but those are scenarios like CSA and not the situations you lived through. I'm so sorry. It's easy to head into relationship with someone and not really know all the dynamics of their relationships. Or, we know some of those dynamics but believe things will change after marriage.

I'm glad you have found love and intimacy in life. Finding, losing, and finding new friendships & intimacy is something that is lifelong and never ending. People change, people leave, people die - and part of relationship is allowing those we care about to make their own choices even if that means changing the level of relational intimacy we have. Our kids are a prime example of this. So in that sense, we continually experience risk, connection, and then loss (even if the people are safe). We get the highs and lows. And oh to have a place where we don't have to live the roller coaster of it.

So yeah - coping with difficult and painful things is something we will inevitably do. Sometimes we learn and / or choose healthy ways of coping, and sometimes we don't. As CSA survivors, we entered adulthood packaged with some unhealthy ways but we can address those. And per the onion picture - we can address them at different "levels." We can try and change the surface behaviors and find another way to cope (taking out anger at a punching bag at the gym vs. a destructive way of coping with anger, for example). We can also invest the time and cost to cope via getting help to try to address the heart issues that led us to those unhealthy coping mechanisms. Again - it doesn't have to be one or the other but can be. Or it can be both.

Kudos to you and your journey; for having found happiness, love, and safety in the midst of loneliness and loss.
"It doesn't have to be one or the other but can be. Or it can be both." - I like that. I honestly think to break these cycles of self-hatred, toxic shame, guilt, self-harmful behaviors that it really does need to be both for me. Your mileage may vary as they say. I don't have your computer skills or ability to do graphics like you did, but for me, it's kind of a cycle of negative behaviors, guilt and shame, which leads to reinforcing the negative self-image. I told my therapist today that there is also a lot of confirmation bias involved in my cycle of self-abuse, because I have a laser focus on the things I do wrong, and I discount and ignore the positives about myself.
 
"It doesn't have to be one or the other but can be. Or it can be both." - I like that. I honestly think to break these cycles of self-hatred, toxic shame, guilt, self-harmful behaviors that it really does need to be both for me. Your mileage may vary as they say. I don't have your computer skills or ability to do graphics like you did, but for me, it's kind of a cycle of negative behaviors, guilt and shame, which leads to reinforcing the negative self-image. I told my therapist today that there is also a lot of confirmation bias involved in my cycle of self-abuse, because I have a laser focus on the things I do wrong, and I discount and ignore the positives about myself.
Very, very true. That negative cycle can certainly get us stuck and reinforce the negatives about ourselves.

Healthy coping mechanisms seem obvious but sadly for survivors they are obvious instead we do not release the past instead we choose coping mechanisms that temporarily removes us from the memories, the abuses, the pain and need to control the abuse, in the end we are not free instead these negative coping mechanisms take over our lives.
This is so good, and sadly - so true. It’s where most of us start and live for years.
 
An interesting post, MO. I always like to read what you share. I read this a while ago and did not reply. I found it offputting, but I couldn't put my finger on why. As I reread it, it's the references to victims becoming offenders that I find troubling.

It's been a few years since I reviewed the data, but I don't believe much has changed. The single thing that most pedophiles have in common is a background of having been raised in poverty. The percentage of pedophiles who were molested as children is greater than the general population, something along the lines of double. All that math works out to mean that far fewer than half of all pedophiles were molested, somewhere around 30 percent.

So when you made a post about "all adult sexual acting out" I inferred that you are including pedophiles who rape children at the extreme end of that spectrum of behaviors called "acting out." Personally, I don't accept that there is a spectrum of behaviors that includes consensual sex and non-consensual sex. I do believe their is a spectrum of violent behaviors that you can place non-consensual sex on.

I know there is currently a school of thought that tries to argue that pedophilia is just another orientation, as in there are gay people, straight people and, also, pedophiles. I haven't read all there is to read on that subject, but what I have read I did not find convincing.

But the question remains, if all adult acting out includes pedophiles, then how does this theory that they are reconnecting with their inner child because of the damage done by CSA explain the 70 percent of pedophiles who were never molested? Or, for that matter, all those other people who wrestle with unwanted sexual behaviors who were never molested? I can assure you there are a great many such people.

Forgive me if I'm inferring something you did not intend, but in my experience the word "all" rarely applies to CSA survivors.
 
An interesting post, MO. I always like to read what you share. I read this a while ago and did not reply. I found it offputting, but I couldn't put my finger on why. As I reread it, it's the references to victims becoming offenders that I find troubling.

It's been a few years since I reviewed the data, but I don't believe much has changed. The single thing that most pedophiles have in common is a background of having been raised in poverty. The percentage of pedophiles who were molested as children is greater than the general population, something along the lines of double. All that math works out to mean that far fewer than half of all pedophiles were molested, somewhere around 30 percent.

So when you made a post about "all adult sexual acting out" I inferred that you are including pedophiles who rape children at the extreme end of that spectrum of behaviors called "acting out." Personally, I don't accept that there is a spectrum of behaviors that includes consensual sex and non-consensual sex. I do believe their is a spectrum of violent behaviors that you can place non-consensual sex on.

I know there is currently a school of thought that tries to argue that pedophilia is just another orientation, as in there are gay people, straight people and, also, pedophiles. I haven't read all there is to read on that subject, but what I have read I did not find convincing.

But the question remains, if all adult acting out includes pedophiles, then how does this theory that they are reconnecting with their inner child because of the damage done by CSA explain the 70 percent of pedophiles who were never molested? Or, for that matter, all those other people who wrestle with unwanted sexual behaviors who were never molested? I can assure you there are a great many such people.

Forgive me if I'm inferring something you did not intend, but in my experience the word "all" rarely applies to CSA survivors.
I’ve actually thought some of the same. I did a lot of acting out through anonymous gay sex. Was everyone I was acting out with also CSA survivors acting out their own abuse? If not, how do you categorize them? Where do they fall in any spectrum of sexuality? Were all of my abusers victims too? If not, what is the genesis of their behavior?
 
An interesting post, MO. I always like to read what you share. I read this a while ago and did not reply. I found it offputting, but I couldn't put my finger on why. As I reread it, it's the references to victims becoming offenders that I find troubling.

It's been a few years since I reviewed the data, but I don't believe much has changed. The single thing that most pedophiles have in common is a background of having been raised in poverty. The percentage of pedophiles who were molested as children is greater than the general population, something along the lines of double. All that math works out to mean that far fewer than half of all pedophiles were molested, somewhere around 30 percent.

So when you made a post about "all adult sexual acting out" I inferred that you are including pedophiles who rape children at the extreme end of that spectrum of behaviors called "acting out." Personally, I don't accept that there is a spectrum of behaviors that includes consensual sex and non-consensual sex. I do believe their is a spectrum of violent behaviors that you can place non-consensual sex on.

I know there is currently a school of thought that tries to argue that pedophilia is just another orientation, as in there are gay people, straight people and, also, pedophiles. I haven't read all there is to read on that subject, but what I have read I did not find convincing.

But the question remains, if all adult acting out includes pedophiles, then how does this theory that they are reconnecting with their inner child because of the damage done by CSA explain the 70 percent of pedophiles who were never molested? Or, for that matter, all those other people who wrestle with unwanted sexual behaviors who were never molested? I can assure you there are a great many such people.

Forgive me if I'm inferring something you did not intend, but in my experience the word "all" rarely applies to CSA survivors.
Thanks @Dan99. Good clarification to make.

When I wrote the subject line: "All adult sexual acting out..." I was thinking only about acting out as a result of CSA (because we are all CSA survivors). Nowhere in my mind did I think about or intend to include all adult sexual activity. Big distinction.

I did include the word "Adult" purposely though, because I think acting out CSA survivors do as kids and even teens is related more to the outer layers of the "onion." A 7 year old boy acting out sexually is more likely repeating behavior or possibly trying to meet emotional needs vs. connecting with his younger self :) He's only 7.

So perhaps I should have titled the subject "All Adult CSA Survivor Acting Out...."
 
I’ve actually thought some of the same. I did a lot of acting out through anonymous gay sex. Was everyone I was acting out with also CSA survivors acting out their own abuse? If not, how do you categorize them? Where do they fall in any spectrum of sexuality? Were all of my abusers victims too? If not, what is the genesis of their behavior?
I think these are broader questions that pop up here on this site periodically (were my abusers victims too?). Questions you and @Dan99 asked are unanswered questions. I don't know what to think, and I don't know we can know for sure given how men traditionally respond to questionnaires about sexuality (not very honestly).

The question: "I did a lot of acting out through anonymous gay sex. Was everyone I was acting out with also CSA survivors acting out their own abuse?" I'm not saying that at all. My previous response to @Dan99 clarifies this. If you think of the three threads in the original pictures, puberty / sexual development is its own thread. Someone can have had no CSA and be gay - so I in no way would say (or was saying) that everyone you had gay sex with was a CSA survivor. They could have been, but not necessarily.

In other words (and I said this in a reply somewhere in this thread): there are a lot of variations on the top "normal" / no-CSA kid and the threads of non-sexual intimacy, sexual intimacy, and puberty / sexual development - especially when it comes to puberty / sexual development.

Apologies on the title causing confusion or consternation guys. But this post is specific to CSA survivors and not a general statement about the general public.
 
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I have found the discussion helpful.
Keep up the good work
Thanks Toad. I was a bit short on patience yesterday after my T session (due to impatience with myself). Appreciate the encouragement.

I did add some clarifications to the initial post. Although I chose not to change the Subject of the post, because if you read the post it should be clear :)
 
Vulnerable moment: I wanted to update on where I stand with relation to connecting with my fragmented kids / parts of myself (how do you say that so it doesn't sound weird?):
  • The young kid, ages 5-11:
    • I feel really reconnected with this kid
    • I've had times where I have had huge empathy for what he went through, as well as the losses he incurred as a result of abuse
    • I've embraced this kid as a dad, and he's responded with affection and thanks
    • He was still looking for parental love and connection, so me being a dad to my daughters really helped me connect with him
    • He can still feel some of the things we worked through last year: feeling unsafe, longing for parental non-sexual intimacy. But by and large he is much more content than before
    • I think this reconnection is what literature refers to as reintegration of our fragmented self
  • The teen kid, ages 12-15:
    • This kid has reached out to me a couple times (in dreams). He's asked me to mentor him and be like a big brother to him
    • I've had some trepidation connecting with him. Teenagers are hard to deal with, and the added thread of puberty / sexual development makes things even more confusing to deal with
    • I think part of me is afraid of the anger that's below the surface during these years. And yet, so far, I haven't felt extreme anger from him
    • This kid holds the shame of not telling someone about the abuse sooner, and also holds the shame of acting out like he did
    • At age 12, I confronted my dad and told him he'd better stop. This was a milestone for me, and when I did this, I did a hard shift away from wanting a close, intimate relationship with my parents to one where I said internally, "Screw you. I have to figure this out on my own." Hence, I put up walls. All kids start to pull away from parents around this age anyway, but mine was an extreme pulling away emotionally because of the abuse
    • This kid says all the time, "I'm fine. It's all good. I don't need anyone or anything. I'm doing well in school, I have friends, I play sports... I'm good," even though he wasn't fine and definitely had needs
    • @B.D.F. had a thread asking for advice about his foster son. I don't, and this teen kid doesn't, think of himself with the same baggage as other kids pulled from abusive homes (because he thinks, "I'm fine. It's all good."). But the truth is, I had a lot of similarities during these years: aloof, difficult to connect with, emotionally distant or extreme
    • This part of me - the kid I was from 12-15 - is still stuck in this place where he carries a lot of the emotional stuff from his younger years (the need to be safe, suppressing emotions, disassociation, etc.) and then piled on some of his own like mentioned above
    • The connections this kid did have were with his friends. And sadly, not all interactions were healthy and included sexual acting out. However, he feels like if he is to give up those old patterns of connection, what will be there? There was no connection with his parents or any other caring adult. So to give up this way of connecting - messed up as it was - it feels like there is a huge void on the other side of that choice. And it is terrifying: that void feels so completely alone and empty. He's not ready to give it up
Adult me? I have been angry and frustrated this past week. I feel like I've been trying to connect with this teen kid and just can't. I sense a lot of resistance from him - for the reasons listed above. I even had a dream where I told him: "You're going to have to make a choice. You can either continue on trying to connect in this unhealthy, tangled way, or you can come along with my therapist and I and learn how to connect in other ways and untangle this mess." In this dream, he was very, very ambivalent and unsure what to do.

One of the big insights my T pulled out of our session is this: "Maybe we are trying to connect with this kid in the wrong way. With the 5-11 year old, you were able to shift into dad mode and connect with him in that role. He was still looking for a dad, and he received it. But this teen kid - he's left that parent need behind. Kids at this age - they look for friends, uncles, big brothers. Even affection looks different - it's a hand on a shoulder, a punch in the arm instead of a full-on hug." This really resonated with me, and I think this is definitely part of what's made connecting difficult. When I thought back to the first dream he showed up in, he asked if I would be his mentor / big brother. He didn't ask if I'd be his dad. And... he's going to be a bit wary about even connecting in this manner. This is going to take some time.
 
Thanks for your reply, MO.

Sounds like you're putting in hard work on the inner child front. I know how challenging that can be. I have a tendency to approach things as if there can be a linear solution to every challenge. But with connecting with my inner child I found the various techniques that were suggested to me didn't really work. What did help was finally just opening myself to it and letting it happen. Not my usual way of operating.

As to my earlier post I fear it may have been a bit sharp and I hope it was not upsetting. I am very sensitive to the issue of how pedophiles are viewed. It's something of a trigger for me, but I'm happy for your continued progress.

Take care.
 
Thanks for your reply, MO.

But with connecting with my inner child I found the various techniques that were suggested to me didn't really work. What did help was finally just opening myself to it and letting it happen.
Thanks Dan. No issues.

And yes - I think a willingness to connect to the kid inside is the biggest key. Then like you said - just letting it happen. You can’t force it, even though I want to grab that teenager’s hand and drag him forward.
 
More observations this past week while trying to understand and reconnect with my teen kid:
  • Internal observation: I "split" (thinking of someone as only good or only bad) my teen self when I think about who he was. And my picture of him is primarily the "visible" / good stuff: he was free from further abuse, he did well in school, he had friends, he was active in sports and other activities. I ignore the "invisible" / bad stuff: he was acting out with friends, he was terribly alone, he longed for connection the only way he knew how
  • Internal observation: My T and I spent time discussing kids who live through trauma, and how difficult it is to connect with them. I mentioned that I had messaged my good friend (who was like a big brother / father) I met when I was 18. I had messaged that I wished he had met me when I was 12 years old - what a difference he could have made. But that when I'm honest with myself, I don't know that I would have let him connect with me like I did when I was 18. Trauma surviving kids, like the foster kids I've known, usually push and pull at the same time: "Please 'see' me, and love me," and, "Get away from me - no one feels safe." Guys - especially those abused in your own family - we could have all been foster kids. Thinking about my younger self in this way gave me an overwhelming flood of sadness and grief
  • Behavioral observation: masturbation with or without porn - was and still is a way of feeling "connection" with someone - even if it's just in our minds. That teen kid I was struggled so much with trying to connect intimately, and this became a way to soothe the lonely / alone feelings. But I don't have to continue to use this mechanism any longer - I have a wife and people in my life I can truly (and safely) connect with
- MO
 
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