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[NPM330]

Hi Michael. I can hear how angry you are. I feel for you. The eye doctor appointment wasn’t cool on her part nor is the controlling during sex. I wonder if would you be happier to move on. I’m sure there are many girls who would and couldngive you the things you need. It sounds like your gf doesn’t hear your needs. I know that trying to change people is like turning a rainy day to sunshine. We’re powerless in that department. The only way others behaviors change toward us is when we change our behaviors towards them. Believe me, if I could have changed things, they would have changed. I know it’s hard to find people, but sometimes, finding a hobby that we enjoy is a good way to meet people with similar interests. I hope it doesn’t sound incentive for me to say this. I just think that everyone deserves happiness in their lives and I’m confident you can find that in your. Sometime it’s when you stop looking, that’s when it comes. Hope you have a good day.

 

[michael07]

Hi Michael. I can hear how angry you are. I feel for you. The eye doctor appointment wasn’t cool on her part nor is the controlling during sex. I wonder if would you be happier to move on. I’m sure there are many girls who would and couldngive you the things you need. It sounds like your gf doesn’t hear your needs. I know that trying to change people is like turning a rainy day to sunshine. We’re powerless in that department. The only way others behaviors change toward us is when we change our behaviors towards them. Believe me, if I could have changed things, they would have changed. I know it’s hard to find people, but sometimes, finding a hobby that we enjoy is a good way to meet people with similar interests. I hope it doesn’t sound incentive for me to say this. I just think that everyone deserves happiness in their lives and I’m confident you can find that in your. Sometime it’s when you stop looking, that’s when it comes. Hope you have a good day.

Thank you NPM. I'm just really upset that these strange, mean and selfish sexual behaviors have caused me so much pain now. I don't deserve it, and I tried so, so hard.

Thank you. This thread, if nothing else, can be useful to others who are in relationships with men who were sexually abused as boys. This is such dangerous territory for us and mistreatment in this area can cause serious, serious damage.

 

[NPM330]

I hope it can help someone too. Don’t let someone hurtful keep hurting you. You are strong and smart and in charge of you and your life. There is someone out there that needs you. Always remember that.

 

[SinkBackIntoTheOcean]

I wonder if would you be happier to move on. I’m sure there are many girls who would and could give you the things you need.

dear @michael07 , i don't wonder if you would be happier to move on. i think it's obvious you need to do it. you're clearly a very cerebral person, an overthinker. your gf is victimizing you, which is what happens to a lot of survivors because abusive people can sniff out vulnerability from a mile away. please stop torturing yourself, cut your losses & start healing...

 

[michael07]

dear @michael07 , i don't wonder if you would be happier to move on. i think it's obvious you need to do it. you're clearly a very cerebral person, an overthinker. your gf is victimizing you, which is what happens to a lot of survivors because abusive people can sniff out vulnerability from a mile away. please stop torturing yourself, cut your losses & start healing...

Thank you SBITO.........it's SO hard to see sometimes. You keep trying harder and harder to make her happy. And, I think because of the abuse, I feel that everything is my fault and I'm screwing it up. I do feel for her, I believe hurting people hurt people, and I've done a lot of reading that leads me to believe that she is bpd, thus the rages and the criticism and the gaslighting. It makes me feel bad for her and want to take care of her.

 

[SinkBackIntoTheOcean]

It makes me feel bad for her and want to take care of her.

she is clearly damaged, but you can't afford to sympathize with someone who is sabotaging you. you're a vulnerable survivor, you're not equipped to be her therapist. would you ask a lamb to take care of an angry wolf?

 

[Visitor]

Sound advice SB... to the point. Michael, you came because you're in pain and wanted support from men who've been dealing with the residue of child sexual abuse. That was a wise thing to do. We struggle when it comes to caring for ourselves. That can happen for many reasons. But our healing really depends on our becoming an advocate for ourselves. We really need to make our own healing the first priority. Reading about your struggles it seems clear this woman is a toxic presence in your life. She may be damaged herself, doubtless is, but as SB says, you can't fix her problems. Trying to do so you're not taking care of yourself. I hope you can claim the space you need so you can heal. We'll support you along the way.

 

[michael07]

Sound advice SB... to the point. Michael, you came because you're in pain and wanted support from men who've been dealing with the residue of child sexual abuse. That was a wise thing to do. We struggle when it comes to caring for ourselves. That can happen for many reasons. But our healing really depends on our becoming an advocate for ourselves. We really need to make our own healing the first priority. Reading about your struggles it seems clear this woman is a toxic presence in your life. She may be damaged herself, doubtless is, but as SB says, you can't fix her problems. Trying to do so you're not taking care of yourself. I hope you can claim the space you need so you can heal. We'll support you along the way.

Yes, I know that I need to take care of myself. I am very co-dependent, and very loose with my boundaries. Surprise, surprise. I'm too trusting. I'm scared to have a sexual relationship with someone for fear that ......THIS......will happen.

Having codependence and not good boundaries allowed me to accept verbal abuse, then manipulations. Plus, as another thread discussed, I"m TERRIFIED of abandonment after I've been sexual with someone.

I appreciate everyone here on the boards and their willingness to help. So much guilt and appoint and sadness.

 

[NPM330]

Michael, hi. I’m wondering, do you have friends and/or family around? Is there anyone who is supportive of you in your area? I know that sometimes when my husband was feeling lonely (when we separated) he went to see lots of family and friends. It made things easier on him.

 

[SinkBackIntoTheOcean]

Having codependence and not good boundaries allowed me to accept verbal abuse, then manipulations. Plus, as another thread discussed, I"m TERRIFIED of abandonment after I've been sexual with someone.

i know you're hurting, but your becoming aware of those issues, bringing them into consciousness where you can deal with them more calmly & with self-compassion, is no small achievement. many survivors go through life completely unaware of the motives that drive their (self-)destructive behaviors

 

[michael07]

Michael, hi. I’m wondering, do you have friends and/or family around? Is there anyone who is supportive of you in your area? I know that sometimes when my husband was feeling lonely (when we separated) he went to see lots of family and friends. It made things easier on him.

My Dad is a gigantic support, some friends too but they are tired of seeing me like this and think her behavior is just horrible and can't understand why I'm feeling so bad. I don't blame them, they don't know what this PTSD feels like because of the csa. A friend of mind thought his wife was divorcing him a few weeks ago and he was a wreck- called me late at night to go get something from the store for him since he couldn't get out with his kid, so I did. He wasn't sleeping, wasn't eating and had to take some days off work. They patched it up and he's fine now, but I told him that I feel like that times 3....for 8 weeks straight now.

I also have my therapist who is good, and I have an appointment with her tomorrow.

It's such an emotional mess for me. The sexual/PTSD stuff, the codependency part that makes me ache for her. The intellectual understanding that if I had sone or said these things to someone it would be considered absolutely horrendous (and of course I never would), and my reading of borderline personality disorder and support boards I'm on have enlightened me. I think that's what she has, and they all say that the things she's done are very consistent with it. And they also say to not take the things they say or do personally, you have to go to the underlying fear and shame and validate it. I didn't know all of this and so I took her words and actions very hard- I never yelled at her and only tried to calm her down and explain things to her, so I"m proud of that and don't have any guilt about that, but I was just shell-shocked after these episodes, or when she simply left at Christmas, and decided I needed to distance myself from her for my mental health. That TOO was the wrong thing to do.

So, I have guilt and fear that I've ruined it. But how was I to know? I actually feel very sorry for her in her fear and anger and behaviors and feel like she is hurting too and I want to be there for her. But she makes that hard, putting me to tests that I can't pass, and then getting mad at me. That has happened a number of times. But the heart is the heart.......

 

[michael07]

i know you're hurting, but your becoming aware of those issues, bringing them into consciousness where you can deal with them more calmly & with self-compassion, is no small achievement. many survivors go through life completely unaware of the motives that drive their (self-)destructive behaviors

Thanks SBITO, I am aware of these issues and have never blamed her directly for them, they're mine to own. So I've tried to protect her from them and tried to just work on my reactions and feelings myself. At least I"m not in the hospital (yet) like last time.

 

[NPM330]

My Dad is a gigantic support, some friends too but they are tired of seeing me like this and think her behavior is just horrible and can't understand why I'm feeling so bad. I don't blame them, they don't know what this PTSD feels like because of the csa. A friend of mind thought his wife was divorcing him a few weeks ago and he was a wreck- called me late at night to go get something from the store for him since he couldn't get out with his kid, so I did. He wasn't sleeping, wasn't eating and had to take some days off work. They patched it up and he's fine now, but I told him that I feel like that times 3....for 8 weeks straight now.

I also have my therapist who is good, and I have an appointment with her tomorrow.

It's such an emotional mess for me. The sexual/PTSD stuff, the codependency part that makes me ache for her. The intellectual understanding that if I had sone or said these things to someone it would be considered absolutely horrendous (and of course I never would), and my reading of borderline personality disorder and support boards I'm on have enlightened me. I think that's what she has, and they all say that the things she's done are very consistent with it. And they also say to not take the things they say or do personally, you have to go to the underlying fear and shame and validate it. I didn't know all of this and so I took her words and actions very hard- I never yelled at her and only tried to calm her down and explain things to her, so I"m proud of that and don't have any guilt about that, but I was just shell-shocked after these episodes, or when she simply left at Christmas, and decided I needed to distance myself from her for my mental health. That TOO was the wrong thing to do.

So, I have guilt and fear that I've ruined it. But how was I to know? I actually feel very sorry for her in her fear and anger and behaviors and feel like she is hurting too and I want to be there for her. But she makes that hard, putting me to tests that I can't pass, and then getting mad at me. That has happened a number of times. But the heart is the heart.......

I feel for you Michael. It’s good to hear that you have some support. Have you considered keeping a writing journal? I had periods of time in my life where it helped me out tremendously. Just trying to brainstorm. It’s sounds that you have a good understanding of the emotions you are feeling and why they are happening. A lot of people find that hard and don’t do it. It seems that intellectually you know what has to happen but on some level your emotions won’t let you. I’m like that in a sense that I know things but my emotions respond the other way. Give yourself credit. You’re doing a great job.

 

[michael07]

I feel for you Michael. It’s good to hear that you have some support. Have you considered keeping a writing journal? I had periods of time in my life where it helped me out tremendously. Just trying to brainstorm. It’s sounds that you have a good understanding of the emotions you are feeling and why they are happening. A lot of people find that hard and don’t do it. It seems that intellectually you know what has to happen but on some level your emotions won’t let you. I’m like that in a sense that I know things but my emotions respond the other way. Give yourself credit. You’re doing a great job.

My therapist is suggesting that I get some hypnotherapy, so I called one yesterday. I expect to have a short initial consultation with her today.

I'm just so confused, and scared. As I mentioned, when this last happened in 2008 I spent two years in bed, went to a psychiatric hospital for a month, had to quit a very good job.

And now it's happening again, the same sliding into depression, the same ruminating and wondering what's happened, the same sense that my sexuality is completely destroyed, weeks of little sleep and food.

I go into PTSD shock when I see someone who looks like her, or see her picture in the contacts of my phone, or see a woman about her height, or someone wearing a jacket like hers, or a woman who is simply wearing the same sneakers she wears. Any little detail, and there can be many, many of them if you think about it. Blonde hair, sneakers, jacket, eye color....all are tigers now and it scuks. My knees start to buckle, heart pound and ears ring as the blood pressure suddenly spikes.

Somehow, the csa trauma gets 'transferred' onto her and her image and thoughts of her. And like I said, if we had not ever been sexual, none of this would be happening. Sure, I might be sad or confused or something, but definitely not these intrusive thoughts, these PTSD reactions, the continuing extreme high stress, sleeplessness, inability to eat.

I want to talk to her to somehow clear this up, somehow make sense of it, but that scares me too because I don't think she would be kind and I run the risk of getting berated and called 'shitty' and 'horrible' again, or perhaps worse she might treat me with indifference. I"m stuck in this middle zone where I hope that she'll email or text with an apology and acknowledgement of how hurtful it must have been to be ditched over Christmas, snapped at with sarcasm and disdain in front of her family, called horrible names and set up to miss the eye surgery. Something that acknowledges what she's done, acknowledges that I"m a good person and worthy of love. I don't think that's coming,

 

[NPM330]

Hey Michael, I’m sorry for the late response. The flu has hit our house
You know, I’m pretty sure that everyone but her would acknowledge that she owes you and apology and that she was wrong and everyone else would tell you that you are a good and worthy person. I’m also pretty sure that she is not going to do that. So, you have the choice to feel shitty and ruminate and fee horrible and wait for that to happen, or you can make a choice to realized that her behavior is not changing and you can get moving down a better road. Chances are is that when she sees or hears that you are happy, she’ll come back around. At that point, you need to make a hard decision. It’s something I did. I finally realized that I could either live my life or I was going to let another year pass and get another year older and waste another year of not being happy. It’s not easy but I know you are strong and can do it.

 

[michael07]

Hey Michael, I’m sorry for the late response. The flu has hit our house
You know, I’m pretty sure that everyone but her would acknowledge that she owes you and apology and that she was wrong and everyone else would tell you that you are a good and worthy person. I’m also pretty sure that she is not going to do that. So, you have the choice to feel shitty and ruminate and fee horrible and wait for that to happen, or you can make a choice to realized that her behavior is not changing and you can get moving down a better road. Chances are is that when she sees or hears that you are happy, she’ll come back around. At that point, you need to make a hard decision. It’s something I did. I finally realized that I could either live my life or I was going to let another year pass and get another year older and waste another year of not being happy. It’s not easy but I know you are strong and can do it.

Thank you NPM. It's so helpful to me to have women that support me on these boards. I didn't know that would happen.

Strangely, I'm right now in Tucson for my work, the first time since I was here in 2008 at the psychiatric hospital, when I was collapsing exactly as I am now. I stood in the baggage area of the airport today in the exact spot where I stood as I waited for the van to take me to the hospital. I nearly cried right then today- it was overwhelming to know all that has happened since then, and deeply depression to realize that the same things is happening again. I almost wish I could have gone back and started over. It's so strange to see the desert and the same mountains I looked at for 30 days.

When I think about things with my gf as if I were the person doing the behavior it becomes more clear to me, and I feel less bad about anything I might have done. I'm writing this out as an exercise to myself here.

What if Michael did the following behavior.

For months I snap at her during sex, turn to her and tell her to take off her clothes and get in bed, lecture her how she's doing it wrong, snap at her "oh my god ____, stop that!" "what are you doing??!" and more.

Then I withhold sex from her, without explanation, because I think she is pathetic for being excited about a business deal with someone I thought was a loser (even though I didn't know this person at all). I lecture her repeatedly and condescendingly on how she should not partner with this person.

She comes to my place for a weekend and I reject her for sex 4 times in a row. (because I'm reevaluating the relationship, but don't tell her). She asks if something is wrong and I say "Oh...I guess we are just in different places"

For months, I literally ignored her texts to come over for connection, and when she finally got the courage to ask if there was something wrong with our physical relationship, If I didn't like her body, that all this made her feel ugly....I yelled at her that it was her sexual abuse talking, then told her she brought it up at the wrong time and got really mad. I later tell her that she "started a fight that night"

So I was reevaluating our relationship, but still needed my dog to be watched for 3 weeks since it would cost me $800, so I asked her if she would. Then while traveling I forgot her birthday, but she was super kind and made sure to not hurt my feelings and told me don't worry about it, it's ok.

On a camping trip during my birthday she gets a nice Papyrus card, writes a beautiful note on it about how much she loves me and treasures us, and sneaks in a craft dark chocolate bar that she went to a special market to get. She sets them out on the camping table so that I find it when I get up. She gets up early to walk the dog so I don't have to. Later that day I scream at her how she gave me a shitty birthday, ruined my day, and gave me a stupid card and a shitty chocolate bar that I don't even like and now I'm having to cover up for her to my friends.

Later in the fall several times I stop responding to her texts and calls, sometimes for days at a time, telling her I"m busy. One weekend I ignore her for two days and she sends a text asking "is there a reason you aren't communicating? I'm worried and not sleeping great". I pick up the phone and she answers with "How are you honey?" Without saying hello I yell at there "GET A THERAPIST! OH MY GOD. This is YOU, not me".

Weeks later she gets the courage to tell me that ignoring me and not returning calls/texts is hurtful and invalidating. I tell I've been speaking with and spending time with my friends, they understand my life, and she is not very cultured and eats shitty food so I've been spending time with my friends. But of course, I have also been telling her I love her once every week or so during this time, which she says is confusing.

She volunteers for my son's theater performance and serves as greeter in the theater. I don't text or communicate with her in the days before at all, and she shows up looking around for me. I mostly ignore her as she is there, and she has to look around for me after the show for 10 minutes. She finds me listening to voice mails on my phone in a corner of the theater. That week I told her I was thinking I'd invite her up to my Mom and Dad's place for Christmas, and she says how nice that would be and how much she'd enjoy it.

The next week she bought tickets for us for the show, my Mom and Dad will be there. I stop communicating with her on Tuesday, send cold and distant texts maybe twice, she asks me if everything is alright since she hasn't heard from me in a couple days, I say to her "busy. around people all the time".

I don't communicate with her on the day of the show when my Mom and Dad will be there, so she just shows up to the theater looking around, finds my family and greets them. I see them across the lobby and walk over and greet my family, but don't even look at her. Then I snap at her several times sarcastically before, during and after the show in front of my family. She texts me to have a great dinner with my family, I ignore it.

I don't communicate with her the rest of Saturday, Sunday or Monday, then simply leave town for my Mom and Dads without a call or text, or a follow up on whether/when she's coming up. I text her on Christmas Eve saying 'tired. going to take some time to recalibrate"

I don't try to communicate with her until the 30th, when I'm back in town, and I call her. She doesn't answer. I call her again on the 31st and she texts me back saying "I'm trying to stay centered and calm. I'm not really feeling up to talking with you tonight". I don't respond to that at all.

No communication for 3 weeks, then I send her an email eviscerating her for not being there for my eye surgery, which we last discussed in October. I tell her she wasn't there for me, disappeared AGAIN, and my friends who love me were there for me. They showed up for me, and she didn't.

She calls me crying, saying how much she loves me, how sorry she was that she wasn't with me for the eye surgery, telling me that we hand't spoken about it since October and of course she wanted to be there for me but she was confused and hurt and I had left her alone at Christmas without any communication, was mean to her and embarrassed her in front of my family, and didn't know what was going on. She says she texted me after I called, but I didn't respond. I then launch into her telling her how she doesn't show up for me and she's a fraud, liar, plagiarist, has no friends and does nothing for her community. I yell at her that I need someone who's going to show up in my life and not melt under pressure.

 

[NPM330]

Michael, I’m sorry it’s taken me some time to respond. I wanted to really read your post and think about it. My initial impression is... Why did Michael take such abouse from his girlfriend? Doesn’t he understand that he deserves better?
Throughout the years, and usually after periods of trials and tribulation, I had come to realize, on my own, that people treat us the way we let them treat us. Also, the hurts and anger casted on us is not bc of anything we did, it’s about them. For years I allowed my husband to mistreat me bc I didn’t think I deserved better. As soon as I realized that I did deserve better, I told him that I wanted out. In changing my behavior, his behaviors changed. He changed for the better. No matter what, I know that whatever happens, I was given a life for a reason. If I allow him to mistreat me, I waste my life. I have made up my mind that no matter what, I will be respected in this life. I will give respect and get it back. No one is hurting me anymore.
I think about you and I want you to have that same epiphany. Maybe you will after reading this, maybe you will next week or next year or in 10 years. I don’t know. I would just say, life is precious and the past is the past and there are people out there who need Michael. Don’t give yourself a hard time. Life is a lesson and life is hard. You are living and therefor doing a great job. Give yourself more credit and find someone who deserves you.
I’m glad you find support on here from me and other woman. When I needed help, this sight was here for me. I’m grateful it exists. Keep up the good fight and remember to eat and sleep. Dr. joe Dipenza on YouTube is a great start.

 

[michael07]

Michael, I’m sorry it’s taken me some time to respond. I wanted to really read your post and think about it. My initial impression is... Why did Michael take such abouse from his girlfriend? Doesn’t he understand that he deserves better?
Throughout the years, and usually after periods of trials and tribulation, I had come to realize, on my own, that people treat us the way we let them treat us. Also, the hurts and anger casted on us is not bc of anything we did, it’s about them. For years I allowed my husband to mistreat me bc I didn’t think I deserved better. As soon as I realized that I did deserve better, I told him that I wanted out. In changing my behavior, his behaviors changed. He changed for the better. No matter what, I know that whatever happens, I was given a life for a reason. If I allow him to mistreat me, I waste my life. I have made up my mind that no matter what, I will be respected in this life. I will give respect and get it back. No one is hurting me anymore.
I think about you and I want you to have that same epiphany. Maybe you will after reading this, maybe you will next week or next year or in 10 years. I don’t know. I would just say, life is precious and the past is the past and there are people out there who need Michael. Don’t give yourself a hard time. Life is a lesson and life is hard. You are living and therefor doing a great job. Give yourself more credit and find someone who deserves you.
I’m glad you find support on here from me and other woman. When I needed help, this sight was here for me. I’m grateful it exists. Keep up the good fight and remember to eat and sleep. Dr. joe Dipenza on YouTube is a great start.

No apologies necessary NPM. And I do so much appreciate that you take the time to respond to me, put some real thought into the replies.

Does Michael understand he deserves better? Yes, I do. But I want HER to love me, and I think this is both due to my FOO issues with my Mom being so controlling and critical and not accepting me. She is very similar, very similar in her anxiety and worry, and I see that now. I wanted her to accept me to heal that wound. Plus, the extreme FEAR of her leaving me after having been sexual with her, and the lingering and very painful desire to 'heal' the treatment of the sexual issues with her. That treatment of me was very damaging and created a many months long fear and desire to get her to love and accept me.

Also, the hurts and anger casted on us is not bc of anything we did, it’s about them

This is becoming more and more clear to me. In my study of bpd websites and narcissism website I've learned that these things are almost always projections of the person's own self-hatred and shame. And I've also learned that people like me- lack of boundaries, empath, open and vulnerable-will take these words in, take them to heart. And believe them. So yes, I do need to learn this deeply.

The sexual abuse and the FOO issues are at the heart of this all.

 

[NPM330]

Michael, what is FOO? It’s great that from an intellectual standpoint you grasp all this. I guess it just going to be about trying to have your emotions follow. It’s kind of you to want to help her, but like I learned from many hard lessons, changing people bc we want to is different than them wanting to change. Ugh. So frustrating. I wish you didn’t have to go through this.

 

[michael07]

Michael, what is FOO? It’s great that from an intellectual standpoint you grasp all this. I guess it just going to be about trying to have your emotions follow. It’s kind of you to want to help her, but like I learned from many hard lessons, changing people bc we want to is different than them wanting to change. Ugh. So frustrating. I wish you didn’t have to go through this.

FOO is family of origin, and psychologists talk about patterns that we learned as children, influenced by our family dynamics and the way we received love from our parents.

Thus, for me, I have some very serious 'need' for love from a Mom that didn't/couldn't really give it very well. She was anxious, nervous, very strict and got angry with me a great deal when I was young. Controlling and critical, which are of course issues dealing with fear and anxiety. I felt like I couldn't do anything right and I know that my Mom didn't like me very much when I was young. She tried to change me and make me into someone I wasn't. She apologized for that later in my life, but the damage was done with years of being in trouble, feeling unlovable. This of course fed into the sexual abuse with the priest.

So as an adult, the theory goes, we try to 'fix' the relationship through our partners. My gf has many of my Mom's traits- the nervousness, the controlling, the quick criticism, the desire to 'change' me. I actually found her nervousness and anxious attention to detail very endearing and attractive. PLUS...she spoke so beautifully about her son, who was 13 when I met her. She really spoke lovingly of him, really supported him in being who he wanted to be and was so proud of him. I found that super endearing and at some level I know I hoped she could show that love and acceptance to me too.

Regarding her needing to want to change. She is smart, very well-read, very knowledgeable about psychological issues. I can guarantee that if a female friend of hers told her that she had a boyfriend who was saying to her the things my gf has said to me, doing to her the things my gf has done to me, calling her names my gf has called me....she would absolutely tell that friend that it's abusive and to leave him. I can guarantee that.

But for some reason, she can't see this herself. She seems to have no sense of how hurtful all this is, no sense of how I love her and would never hurt her.