Curse the SA but not for long (possibly triggering)

Curse the SA but not for long (possibly triggering)
A

andrew51

Registrant
Friends,
Now that we have cursed the darkness of SA and moaned about how unfair it was/is and how others were treated better, and so on and so on. Maybe it's time to figure out what we are going to do.
Our cursing has not been totally unproductive. It has been a form of catharsis, letting us vent our spleens and express our frustrations, letting in a little light. The downside of cursing the SA is that it tends to focus attention on what others are doing to us, or have done to us, rather than focussing on what we can do for ourselves. But remember, all our cursing, whining and complaining isn't solving our problems. We need to stop looking outwards and start looking inwards for the answers. The world is not going to change to resolve our pain. It is up to us to take some action to adjust, or perhaps even take advantage of our circumstances.

Peace, Andrew
 
Andrew,

I don't disagree. But remember we are all in different stages of dealing with SA. Right now, I am in the middle of cursing very loudly, because I need to get some of the rage out before I can effectively look inward.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that the answers are to be found by looking inward, but right now, I personally need to curse.

Will
 
Will,
Cursing totally has its time and place, and is probably very necessary as part of the process

It has been a form of catharsis, letting us vent our spleens and express our frustrations, letting in a little light.
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.

So scream and rant and rave, let in as much light as possible. Peace, Andrew
 
I think the anger and cursing is an essential stage, or at least that's how it felt for me. I was so furious but afraid to let it out. Once I did I was surprised to see how quickly I passed through that stage.

I think when that stage has run its course we can recognize that fact - in a way I got there by seeing that I was rerunning the same thing over and over again. Then I was ready to move on. I had my T to help me and that was invaluable, but I did in a way see that I was ready.

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry,

Then I was ready to move on. I had my T to help me and that was invaluable
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I think that's the key Larry. If we get stuck in the same old pattern of looking outward, it is very essential to seek help from a professional.
Peace, Andrew
 
Larry,

in a way I got there by seeing that I was rerunning the same thing over and over again
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Thats me. Same thing over and over and over. But working on it

Will
 
Will,

I think you will see when you are ready to move on. These things just can't be forced. But as Andrew comments in reply to me, we do need professional help. This doesn't mean we are extra weak, it means that what was done to us was extra evil.

Much love,
Larry
 
My experience is that I should never attempt to separate a man from his misery, or risk getting hurt in the process.

I must allow those who suffer to continue their suffering as long as it serves the purpose for which they use it.

Human beings love being unhappy! We love being miserable! We love being the victim!

In part at least because it relieves us of the troublesome burden of becoming responsible for our own lives.

Only when I had enough, and not until then was I ready to let go of the hurt and the pain, and even then did I release it all very slowly, very deliberately and with professional help.

Suffering, like many conciousness changing things, is very addictive, especially when practiced on a constant and repetitive basis.

The men who sexually abused me hurt me once, twice, perhaps twenty or thirty times.

I have hurt myself in the same way countless number of times, each time I relive, revisit, reopen old wounds and stubbornly refuse to accept the healing that is all around me.

I cannot change the actions of the abusers; but I sure as hell can change the manner in which I continuously lacerated myself.

I will not condemn myself or another for such obstinacy. Instead I perceive my attachment to suffering as a mark of my strength and perseverance.

And then I imagine how powerful those qualities will be when I apply them to my healing and growth, rather than continuing the old patterns and habits of bemoaning my fate and drowning in my little puddle of woe-is-me.

Yes, cursing and hating and weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth is most definitely a part of the process.

In my experience, it is one of the earlier, more primitive stages.

To be stuck there was for me like being in a permanent state of infancy - complete with the dirty diapers and messy throw-up on my bib.

I was there for many, many years. I hope I don't have to go back.

Thanks for the topic, Andrew.

Of course, this represents my personal point of view only and in no way reflects the attitude or
beliefs of the BoD or Mod/Admin of MS. Of course, you already knew that.

Regards,

Danny
 
Danny,

You are one of the great writers of our time!

And then I imagine how powerful those qualities will be when I apply them to my healing and growth, rather than continuing the old patterns and habits of bemoaning my fate and drowning in my little puddle of woe-is-me.
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Sometimes we just have to drag ourselves into positive action.

To be stuck there was for me like being in a permanent state of infancy - complete with the dirty diapers and messy throw-up on my bib.
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A vivid description. How easy it is to not take responsibility for making the future better. Choosing to look outward rather than inward will always impede our healing in my opinion.

In a sense we are mourning our lost youth or innocence. And there is a time for mourning. And even better, there is a time for living.

Peace, Andrew
 
I think that the idea of seeing my process in the light of a mourning or more specifically a 'grieving' process, is infinitely useful.

And of course we all know that anger is one of the principal stages in the processing of grief.

Mike Lew uses the well-known stages of grief over loss as a pattern for the passage to recovery from sexual abuse. First denial, then anger, then bargaining and so on.

I think confusion is one of the biggest obstacles facing me in my recovery. I have many conflicting emotions happening all at once.

I have ideas that are completley contradictory to each other, operating as valid premises for living, simultaneously at work in my head.

For example, I, very erroneously, imagined that the sexual abuse was 'my fault'. That somehow I was so powerful that I was able to 'seduce' a 50 year old man into having sex with me. And I was able to do it without ever saying a single word -merely having a desire for closeness with a man which I kept to myself was enough for me to end up in an extremely inappropriate and damaging sexualized relationship with a man who acted as a father to me.

That was a lot of bullshit on my part of course, yet for many years I lived my life as if it were the gospel truth.

At the same time, in my same mind, I felt very acutely that I was cursed somehow; unlike the people around me; destined to be miserable and unhappy and completely incapable of telling anyone about all the crazy things going on in my head.

On one hand I cast myself as a powerful instigator while at the same time thinking that I was so helpless as to be incapable of ever doing anything about my pitiful situation.

That's just one example of the completely crazy thinking that I lived with for many, many years.

I believe it was a form of insanity or at least some very unbalanced thinking. And since I kept it all to myself, it never got better, only worse.

When I compared myself to being in an infantile state during those years and making reference to dirty diapers and throw-up, that's not really too far of an exagerration.

In my attempt to reconcile what had happened to me with my twisted perception of reality, I became a hopeless alcoholic. More than once did I shit in my pants because I couldn't find the bathroom on my long walks home - which, by the way, did not stop me from popping in the neighborhood convenience store to pick up a 12 pack of beer for the trip home. I think of those clerks working those nights and shudder to see myself through their eyes.

And the throw up part doesn't need much explanation I suppose - I drank even though it made me sick and then I drank more. For years and years. And I believed that I was having fun.

I mention all these personal details only to say that it is not just my thinking about my suffering and my anger that was fucked up for so long. My thinking in general grew irrational and bordered on delusional.

It has taken a long time, a lot of help and a daily effort to reverse the sick patterns of thinking and acting that were my coping mechanisms in the aftermath of being sexually abused.

Occasionally I find myself falling back on old patterns - thinking that no one has suffered like me etc.

A lot of people have suffered a lot more than me - and many of them have complained much less than me and done much more to recover from their hurt and trauma. I consider myself fortunate to be open minded enough to read their thoughts and benefit from their experience.

I have read the stories of Holocaust survivors who found life and hope in Dachau; or the Lost boys of the Sudan who wandered the sub-Sahara for over 3 years, nationless, penniless and at the mercy of all manner of depredation. These are very powerful stories and enormously inspiring testaments to the power of the human spirit.

I say to myself, 'If they can survive and recover, then so can I.'

Thanks guys for a great discussion.

Always mind where my thoughts take me, for there my emotions will follow and my body will not be far behind.

Regards,

Danny
 
One day that darkness will hit you so hard.
It is not something you can just forget about.

It is you, and face it, or it will hit you real hard,

sb
 
Face it, deal with it - yes. Be defined by it and wallow in it - NO!


It is you, and face it, or it will hit you real hard,
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IMO - to take ownership of the darkness is a slap in the face to the real survivors who are working so hard on their personal recoveries.

Darkness = defeat
Light = recovery, victory, life.

Peace, Andrew
 
In a sense we are mourning our lost youth or innocence. And there is a time for mourning. And even better, there is a time for living.
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Andrew,

This hits the nail right on the head.

How miserable I have been, and how confused I have been for decades. Decades which should have been the happiest and most productive decades in my life. Finally, I realized that I did not want to spend my entire life "mucked up".

I will be 50 yrs old in August. I don't know how many years on this earth I will be granted, but I do know that I plan on living them, really living them to the fullest, and best of my ability. I may stumble and fall over these issues from time to time, but God knows I'm tired of crawling. When I fall, I'm going to try my best to get myself up, and walk on.

To reach a point where I can do this in no way diminishes my pain, suffering, or misery caused from my sexual abuse. Instead it instills in me the real knowledge that I am a survivor.

Being a survivor means a lot more than physically surviving through our abuse. It's obvious that each of us has done that or we wouldn't be here today. Being a survivor means that we will not allow our perpes to steal our lives from us any longer, and that we will continue to work at our individual issues until they are no longer a stumbling block for us.

We cannot allow our perps to steal any more of our time and lives here. We are alive now. We owe it to ourselves to live now.

As a result, and I am no where near my definition of a survivor yet, we owe it to our friends and brothers here to help them up when they stumble and fall. Together we can overcome our SA issues a Hell of a lot better than we can alone. That, along with our own individual desire to survive, should insure that we do in fact live our lives to the fullest. We owe that much to ourselves and to the people who love us.

What could possibly be a better slap in the face of our perps than to show them that we are living life. They cannot steal that from us. We cannot allow that.
 
Face it, deal with it - yes. Be defined by it and wallow in it - NO!
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My question is "How can you not be defined by it?". I don't disagree with "don't wallow in it"...but at the beginning most of us DO wallow in it. But "Don't be defined by it"?

"It" is such a huge part of ME that I must, in some part, be defined by "It". "It" has shaped my personality, my views, my existence...even years into recovery (which I'm not) how can I not be, in some way, defined by "IT".

Many of my POSITIVE personality traits were shaped by "IT". Would I want to leave behind empathy?, sensitivity? I believe that these were a direct result of my experiences w/ SA. My brother ansd sister are cold, unfeeling people because of the neglect of my parents. However, at least I believe, my horrible SA experience, left me with values that my siblings lack.

I'm definitely not saying that I'm glad about my experiences, but at least in my case, some positive attributes emerged due to the SA.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in the present, this is what I believe.

Will
 
Will,
I think there is a time when we all 'wallow in it' and allow ourselves to be defined by 'it'. I guess what I'm saying is that at some point in our recoveries we need to be able to say "hey, look it happened, it was bad, there was a lot of pain and I've found strategies to deal with it and move on. It will not dominate my life to the degree that it defines my life."
I'm not in disagreement that the experience may have brought out strong and admirable qualities in some or perhaps even all of us. I'm saying that we are more, much more than the sum of our abuse. I'm a great believer in building on our strengths, looking inwards and finding answers. I recognize that in the early stages of recovery that there is a need to look outwards and assign blame, that's fine .... but being stuck in that early stage for a very long period of one's life can be disasterous in my opinion. There is no magic bullet or elixir to fix the havoc that sexual abuse causes on a person's psyche. It takes hard work, therapy, peer and family support to recover. The emphasis for me would have to fall on hard work, looking inwards for the answers, building on our strengths.
Peace, Andrew
 
Originally posted by WillP:
"It" is such a huge part of ME that I must, in some part, be defined by "It". "It" has shaped my personality, my views, my existence...even years into recovery (which I'm not) how can I not be, in some way, defined by "IT".
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Will, thanks for posting this. I've been searching for a way to say just that since Andrew started this thread.

I have to say that when Andrew did start the thread, I was quite angered by it. So many people have told me to "just get over it" that if someone says it to me now, I don't contact them anymore because I'm afraid I'll tell them off.

At first I thought that was what he was saying here, but his explanation above clears that up. Thanks, Andrew.
 
Dwayne,

I, like you, was pissed when I read this. My reply that says "Nevermind" was edited because I got really shitty.

Andrew, I understand what you are saying, its just frustrating that I am not there yet. I know that this is not your intent, but it feels condescending. I'm sorry that my reaction is so negative, but it is what it is.

You are absolutely right that being "defined" by abuse is much different than recognizing personality characteristics that may have been influenced by abuse.

Will
 
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