All Adult Sexual Acting Out is An Attempt To Reconnect With Ourselves

[DanielQ432]

@DanielQ432, I just wrote this to David and it is a start to answering your questions about the "how" of connecting with the parts of yourself.

I'll be honest: the mumbo-jumbo of “connecting with your inner child” sounds ridiculous at first. Like I told David, I didn’t “get it” at all either when I read something here on this site about that idea. I have even told people this over and over this past year: “This is not the path to healing I would have ever imagined. Ever. It’s too weird. But it's real - and it is making a difference.”

I think most of us initially react like you did when your therapist asked you to have a conversation with your younger self. And I’ll tell you this too: I can’t do that. I cannot talk to my younger self in my therapist's office with her, even though she would like it if I did. I just can’t. If I do, it sounds forced and contrived. There are times where I get emotional talking about my younger kid or teen kid and I might say something to him in that setting - but it's really hard to do for me there. She doesn't press it because she knows there is still plenty of progress going on - on my own.

I think the two most important things in connecting with your younger self are:

• The willingness and open-ness to connect and communicate with each other. In other words: "I don't know how to do this, but I'm willing to let it happen - if that kid wants to talk to me."
• A willingness to listen to what that kid has to say. Very little of what has been done has been me (my adult self) trying to initiate anything with him. But he's been very willing and able to communicate with me - once he knew I was open to hearing him, and once he knew I was willing to help him deal with the hard stuff (the pain, the loss, the confusion, the anger)

To take some of the weirdness out of it, consider the following:

• The boy you were lived. He was a living, breathing person who had thoughts, memories, emotions, and relationships
• Now that boy actually lives as those things inside you: thoughts, memories, emotions, and relationships. That's who he is. But... it is actually helpful to personify him as a little person living in you I know it's weird, and no - we don't have multiple personality disorder. But just think of him like this and it gets less weird

Putting the things in bold together, you will be on the path to getting to know him in a way that allows you to ultimately reconnect with him intimately: consider that boy did indeed live, he lives in you now as thoughts, memories, emotions, and relationships, be open and willing to connect with him (not even because you emotionally want to, but because you know it will ultimately help you both), and then open your eyes and ears to see and hear him. He will show himself through thoughts, memories, emotions, relationships, and dreams.

This isn't something that can be forced or made to happen. That's why your therapist asking you to have a conversation felt contrived. It just has to happen - once you are truly open to it. Trying to think of a word picture....

Here is how things are now: frozen boy --> his thoughts, memories, emotions are hidden and walled off. But your openness to connecting with him will remove that wall (at least a part of it) --> some of his feelings will start to leak through that wall, and if you are looking and listening you will feel them --> if you let yourself feel those things, and you allow yourself to have empathy, he and you will feel safe with this level of communication --> you will take down more of the wall, and he will be more willing to share himself with you --> you will process these emotions with your therapist, and the threads will untangle, and you will connect and re-integrate what that young part of yourself.

For me, connecting with the young kid (5-11) wasn't nearly as hard from my point of view. But I think it was harder from his point of view. He was scared and fearful. But being a dad, and having worked with kids for years, it wasn't hard for me to have empathy for him and receive what he was saying to me.

But the teen kid in me - we have much more of the relationship you describe you have with the kid in you. There is a lot of anger. I have anger towards him for the crap he did. And he has much anger towards my dad and what he did. It has been way harder to start this process with this kid. He's clearly asked me to connect with him... it's been me that isn't sure I even want to. I had several therapy sessions where I was weighing the cost / benefit of being open to this kid and everything he felt with my therapist. As she reflected back to me, I was basically saying: "Look, if I'm going to go through all this shit, it better be f***ing worth it." That was my starting point in relating my teen kid. But I stayed open to the idea - again, because I know it's worth it and it's the path to healing. Notice I didn't say he's worth it Because I certainly didn't feel that way. I've softened up a lot though towards him. I've found grace to understand why he did the things he did. And I've even found empathy for the impossible situation he was in. But yeah - it's been more difficult.

If you read one of my other posts, the teen kid shouted to me after a dream I had (while I was dozing): "Good kids always tell." As strange as it sounds, he's pissed at the little boy (5-11) and thinks if that kid had just told my mom, he wouldn't have gone through all the shit he did. And my reaction to that? Shut up dude - because why didn't you tell anyone what happened to you? You had just as much opportunity as that little boy did. And because I'm a dad, I'll come to that little guy's rescue every time. I did tell my T that this 3-way interaction I have going on with me, the boy, and the teen kid is kind of weird. But it's real: there are three parts of self that I'm trying to figure out how to get back together. And we / they aren't all on the same page.

@DanielQ432 - the very fact that you are asking these questions is a huge deal. You have started walking on this path toward healing and re-integration. Be willing. Be open. Don't think anything is too illogical or too weird. Let the kid in you talk to you. If you have dreams that you wake up from, you remember, and that bug you - don't dismiss them. Think about them. Our subconscious really is a playground for these parts of ourselves to interact in. And don't hesitate to keep asking questions. Be patient - it will come. And things will slowly make more sense as pieces fall into place. It's that, "Oh... that's what that guy meant when he said xyz...."

Yeah, I do need to do this, and understand it. I actually have a lot of really vivid memories of childhood stuff, I don't think I've walled it off or repressed it, I just don't like to think about most of it because it's all pretty terrible. But it also directly made me who I am today - and I don't like that man, either, in a lot of ways. Or maybe it's more accurate to say I vacillate between self-hatred and some kind of "I could be ok with myself if I could just fix some things about myself" state.

I remember one period in my life that I needed a real father was 12-16. I know those are rough years for everyone in a lot of ways. I keep wondering what my life and my psychological makeup/mindset would be like now if I had a real father during those years? I can honestly say that the best times in my relationship with him during those years were when he completely ignored me. The alternative to that was that he was tormenting me in one way or another. Remember how cruel kids can be to each other at that age - teasing, name calling, tormenting? Well, I got that in school for all of the things that others perceived as weaknesses - shy, awkward, fearful, bookish, academic, not allowed to participate, that kind of thing. But I got the same at home from him - he picked on me about things that he perceived as being wrong with me, some of them were real (but that doesn't justify it) - being hyper-sensitive and emotional (gee, I wonder why? PTSD at 12-13-14?), being what he called a "momma's boy" - which of course, if one parent is kind and one is cruel, which one will you gravitate towards? Being physically weak and unathletic. But more than anything, and he bundled this with the momma's boy comments, he accused me of being gay, which was kind of ironic given that until I was probably 14-15, I really didn't understand what that meant. But he used to pick on me directly, or on my mother about me, with all kinds of comments running me down and saying I was going to turn out to be a "fa**** or a queer" - his words. Even before I fully comprehended what that meant, I knew from the way he talked about it that it was perceived as a bad thing - in the context of the social attitudes of the 1970s.

It's also weirdly ironic that he was literally a sex offender by what he did to me, had he been caught, but sexuality was such a taboo thing in my household, because he had these very puritanical values - well, maybe Victorian values - because there wasn't any mention about anything relating to sexuality ever allowed. Risque television program - change the channel, that kind of thing. Yet he could torment me about his perception of my sexual orientation before I even really knew what that meant, and of course, not only was it cruel, he got it wrong.

So, then something "big" happened, well, to me it was big and traumatic, and that was definitely the time in my life when I could have used a real father. So, sitting here now in this pretty run-down state emotionally and physically, another sleepless night when I feel like shit, I just have to wonder what that would have looked like and felt like? A REAL FATHER who would have loved me, talked to me, comforted me, imparted some kind of wisdom on me or just maybe said something like "good boy, it will be ok." What would that be like? I guess I kind of know from the other side, I've been there in that role of the good father as I took care of a couple of my dogs as they were dying, especially that hard final one-way to the vet when it's all you can do.

TRIGGER WARNING - GRAPHIC MEDICAL STUFF

So, the time I really needed that REAL FATHER was December 1977 and it's aftermath. Right after Christmas, the 26th or 27th, I woke up and felt sick, and I realized something significant was wrong because my left testicle was swollen. So, what did I do, being who I was (scared, anxious, afraid) and what I had to deal with (a monster I couldn't rely on for anything meaningful)? About what you would expect - I did nothing and prayed it would go away. Which of course, it didn't, and about 36 hours later, when I was really, really sick, after I spent the whole day in bed with a really high fever and throwing up, and I couldn't really walk because of the pain, I ended up in the ER and then off to surgery for testicular torsion, and that was that, you would think.

Except for the fact that the next few years were pretty bad - I don't know if it was real or it was psychosomatic or some of both, but basically, any significant physical exertion caused a lot of pain and nausea - it was like getting kicked in the balls, hard, all of the time, even though I only had one testicle after undergoing surgery, since the other one was necrotic and they could only remove it. So, I got hauled to the urologist a lot for a few years, fortunately, the surgeon that did it was a pretty kindly, nice guy, so that helped. Unfortunately, instead of having the kind of father I - any boy -deserved, I had a pervert who insisted on going in to every appointment and watching me drop my shorts and get examined by a urologist. That probably would have been ok with me if I had had the other kind of father, who was doing it out of some kind of concern, but that kind of father probably would not have insisted on going into the exam room, either, or at least would have had the decency to look away or something. He had a weird thing about doctors, too - so that was part of it, he had paranoid delusions that they were out to get him.

Regardless - just sitting here rambling. I think because of losing one testicle, I was kind of late when it came to puberty, didn't really happen until I was about 15. And by that time, I had some comprehension of what sex was all about, at least biologically, and a question that burned in my mind for years was "could I be a father if I wanted to." - although to be honest, I don't think that came until later, maybe more like college age, but maybe it was earlier. And I had no one to ask that question to by the time it came around. And to be honest, although I've asked a couple of doctors in later years, I never had the answer to that until about four years ago, when I finally bought an at-home semen analysis kit and found out yes, had I wanted to, I could have been a father because my test results were on the low end of normal, but what the test instructions said were normal enough.

But yeah, it would have been great to have a father I could have felt free to ask questions like that of, or better yet who might have said some kind thing after my surgery to set my mind at ease in general. But, no, wasn't meant to be.

 

[MO-Survivor]

Thank you Mo, I can see a lot of effort by you and book learning, and just hard work. It shows by you being able to explain it well like you do. I'm inspired to work with my T at this important therapy. Much love, Frank

Thanks Frank, and that’s great! I hope the work you do is freeing and as significant to you as it has been for me.

 

[MO-Survivor]

This kind of opened my eyes to maybe why I always hated my birthdays. I despised them! I didn't like the attention, or so I thought, the lime light on me, drawing attention to just me. But maybe deep down it was me not wanting to grow out of my younger years, knowing I would never get them back. I was losing my childhood year by year. I got robbed of my childhood from the CSA and will never get that back. It makes me sad.
I still hate when my birthday rolls around but now it's because the years have ticked off so quick. Childhood still lost.

Yep. That makes perfect sense.

One thing I’ve never understood, since it’s coming up soon. I have never liked Easter. I just don’t like it. As a Christian, that sounds like a terrible thing to say. Easter is the culmination of what Jesus did for us. I’ve always attributed my dislike toward the formality of it, but… I think it probably has more to do with the trial and death involved. I know the message is that death was conquered, and Jesus rises and lives eternally. But as a boy, I think the idea of being Jesus’ friend and losing him like that - and grieving so much - just really put me off. We have such a hard time connecting with people, and then the ones we get close to (including Jesus in this example), die and leave us. Thanks for causing me to think more about this @Photoman

 

[brother2none]

@MO-Survivor you have done some amazing work and presented it here for us like a gift. For me, this thread ranks in the top ten on my all time list. Thank you.

 

[MO-Survivor]

Yeah, I do need to do this, and understand it. I actually have a lot of really vivid memories of childhood stuff, I don't think I've walled it off or repressed it, I just don't like to think about most of it because it's all pretty terrible. .

It does seem like you have access to everything: thoughts, memories, and the feelings of the trauma you went through. I do see that here with a lot of guys. And honestly, guys like you who have full recall have it the hardest I think. Because there isn’t any regulation and it all floods into you, it is very understandably overwhelming. For me, with memory recall but not emotional recall, the emotions have slowly “leaked” over the wall as I was able to process them. The few times I have been flooded with everything, it’s emotionally very, very heavy. I’m sorry you have this. At the same time, it does allow you to dig into almost everything without having to wait for things to come up But I’m sure it’s hard to know where to start. So maybe that’s part of what you need: help in focusing on just one aspect of your trauma and PTSD and try to tackle things in small chunks. I know that isn’t easy with everything still flooding you

So, then something "big" happened, well, to me it was big and traumatic, and that was definitely the time in my life when I could have used a real father. So, sitting here now in this pretty run-down state emotionally and physically, another sleepless night when I feel like shit, I just have to wonder what that would have looked like and felt like? A REAL FATHER who would have loved me, talked to me, comforted me, imparted some kind of wisdom on me or just maybe said something like "good boy, it will be ok." What would that be like? I guess I kind of know from the other side, I've been there in that role of the good father as I took care of a couple of my dogs as they were dying, especially that hard final one-way to the vet when it's all you can do.

So… this is the exact kind of thing that (adult) you, as a man who can be a good father, can do for that boy you were who went through this. He is still in there and he’s still looking for a father. You can be that father for him, as strange as it sounds. Talk to him about this scenario that was in his life. Love on him and tell him you care. Let him know it will be okay. And empathize with his pain (because you do know what it feels like). This is a great example of how to reach out and connect with him.

If that doesn’t seem to work, then talk to your therapist next meeting about these memories. And tell him you have tried being that kid’s dad but you aren’t there yet. Ask him to role pay with you. You be the kid you were who was going through this. And ask him to play the role of the good dad you needed. This is a very vulnerable thing to do, and it is scary. But no risk, no reward. I think this would be intense but the result of it will be powerful and amazing.

But yeah, it would have been great to have a father I could have felt free to ask questions like that of, or better yet who might have said some kind thing after my surgery to set my mind at ease in general. But, no, wasn't meant to be.

It wasn’t meant to be by the bastard who was your dad. You have to grieve this loss, if you haven’t already. And then you can be the dad you needed (and that he still needs).

 

[MO-Survivor]

@MO-Survivor you have done some amazing work and presented it here for us like a gift. For me, this thread ranks in the top ten on my all time list. Thank you.

Thanks @brother2none. Glad you took the time to share that. It is meaningful to me to know this is helpful to you and others and t it resonates for you I can use encouragement just like everyone else. I hope you are doing well @brother2none?

 

[NotAshamed1962]

@brother2none—I agree 100% about this being in his ( @MO-Survivor ) top 10!

 

[MO-Survivor]

@brother2none—I agree 100% about this being in his ( @MO-Survivor ) top 10!

Thanks @NotAshamed1962!

 

[MO-Survivor]

I was thinking this morning and wanted to bring something up with respect to this thread. Because you may read the Subject line, or you may read the thread, and you may think, "Hey MO... I kind of get this and believe this, but this explanation for adult acting out seems too complicated (and a little hokey). I've read books and talked to therapists and they tell me things like this:

• Your acting out is just repeating behavior you unfortunately learned as a child
• Your acting out is a way to relieve pain or loneliness
• Your acting out is an addiction (sexual addiction)
• Etc." (end quote)

Society, especially in the last 10 years or so, has really pushed dichotomies in our thinking. Media on all sides of the spectrum of topics have facilitated this because looking at things in the extremes gets attention (and clicks, and sales). Sadly, most (but not all) dichotomies are false dichotomies. Here is a link to a good video explaining dichotomies and false dichotomies. But essentially, a dichotomy is a logic statement that says something is either this or that. Period. There are things in life that are this or that - and there is no in between, but with most things there are many other alternatives that may be true. Many things are neither this or that, but are this and that.

An example most of us would agree with is a true dichotomy is this statement: The act of Childhood Sexual Abuse is bad / harmful. It's either good or bad - and there isn't really any in-between truths to be found. That said, sadly there are those people who would argue about this - but almost all of us would hold to this logical statement being true.

When it comes to explaining adult survivors or CSA acting out, the answer is not: "Adult acting out is either an attempt to reconnect with ourselves, or it's just an addiction." Rather, adult acting out is the result of many things. And these things can be thought of as multiple layers of an onion. This thread dives to the deepest part of the onion - but acting out may be an attempt to soothe pain or loneliness (or other negative emotions) at the same time. Here is a picture illustrating this:

 

[Life changed at Nine]

I was thinking this morning and wanted to bring something up with respect to this thread. Because you may read the Subject line, or you may read the thread, and you may think, "Hey MO... I kind of get this and believe this, but this explanation for adult acting out seems too complicated (and a little hokey). I've read books and talked to therapists and they tell me things like this:
something is either this or that. Period. There are things in life that are this or that - and there is no in between, but with most things there are many other alternatives that may be true. Many things are neither this or that, but are this and that.
This connected with me. Seems esp. recently that the world is too literal, the in between is dismissed. My mind doesn't work that way am always looking at the pros and cons etc etc.

 

[MO-Survivor]

@After Nine - I don’t think your comments posted

 

[Bornfree]

@DanielQ432, I just wrote this to David and it is a start to answering your questions about the "how" of connecting with the parts of yourself.

I'll be honest: the mumbo-jumbo of “connecting with your inner child” sounds ridiculous at first. Like I told David, I didn’t “get it” at all either when I read something here on this site about that idea. I have even told people this over and over this past year: “This is not the path to healing I would have ever imagined. Ever. It’s too weird. But it's real - and it is making a difference.”

I think most of us initially react like you did when your therapist asked you to have a conversation with your younger self. And I’ll tell you this too: I can’t do that. I cannot talk to my younger self in my therapist's office with her, even though she would like it if I did. I just can’t. If I do, it sounds forced and contrived. There are times where I get emotional talking about my younger kid or teen kid and I might say something to him in that setting - but it's really hard to do for me there. She doesn't press it because she knows there is still plenty of progress going on - on my own.

I think the two most important things in connecting with your younger self are:

• The willingness and open-ness to connect and communicate with each other. In other words: "I don't know how to do this, but I'm willing to let it happen - if that kid wants to talk to me."
• A willingness to listen to what that kid has to say. Very little of what has been done has been me (my adult self) trying to initiate anything with him. But he's been very willing and able to communicate with me - once he knew I was open to hearing him, and once he knew I was willing to help him deal with the hard stuff (the pain, the loss, the confusion, the anger)

To take some of the weirdness out of it, consider the following:

• The boy you were lived. He was a living, breathing person who had thoughts, memories, emotions, and relationships
• Now that boy actually lives as those things inside you: thoughts, memories, emotions, and relationships. That's who he is. But... it is actually helpful to personify him as a little person living in you I know it's weird, and no - we don't have multiple personality disorder. But just think of him like this and it gets less weird

Putting the things in bold together, you will be on the path to getting to know him in a way that allows you to ultimately reconnect with him intimately: consider that boy did indeed live, he lives in you now as thoughts, memories, emotions, and relationships, be open and willing to connect with him (not even because you emotionally want to, but because you know it will ultimately help you both), and then open your eyes and ears to see and hear him. He will show himself through thoughts, memories, emotions, relationships, and dreams.

This isn't something that can be forced or made to happen. That's why your therapist asking you to have a conversation felt contrived. It just has to happen - once you are truly open to it. Trying to think of a word picture....

Here is how things are now: frozen boy --> his thoughts, memories, emotions are hidden and walled off. But your openness to connecting with him will remove that wall (at least a part of it) --> some of his feelings will start to leak through that wall, and if you are looking and listening you will feel them --> if you let yourself feel those things, and you allow yourself to have empathy, he and you will feel safe with this level of communication --> you will take down more of the wall, and he will be more willing to share himself with you --> you will process these emotions with your therapist, and the threads will untangle, and you will connect and re-integrate what that young part of yourself.

For me, connecting with the young kid (5-11) wasn't nearly as hard from my point of view. But I think it was harder from his point of view. He was scared and fearful. But being a dad, and having worked with kids for years, it wasn't hard for me to have empathy for him and receive what he was saying to me.

But the teen kid in me - we have much more of the relationship you describe you have with the kid in you. There is a lot of anger. I have anger towards him for the crap he did. And he has much anger towards my dad and what he did. It has been way harder to start this process with this kid. He's clearly asked me to connect with him... it's been me that isn't sure I even want to. I had several therapy sessions where I was weighing the cost / benefit of being open to this kid and everything he felt with my therapist. As she reflected back to me, I was basically saying: "Look, if I'm going to go through all this shit, it better be f***ing worth it." That was my starting point in relating my teen kid. But I stayed open to the idea - again, because I know it's worth it and it's the path to healing. Notice I didn't say he's worth it Because I certainly didn't feel that way. I've softened up a lot though towards him. I've found grace to understand why he did the things he did. And I've even found empathy for the impossible situation he was in. But yeah - it's been more difficult.

If you read one of my other posts, the teen kid shouted to me after a dream I had (while I was dozing): "Good kids always tell." As strange as it sounds, he's pissed at the little boy (5-11) and thinks if that kid had just told my mom, he wouldn't have gone through all the shit he did. And my reaction to that? Shut up dude - because why didn't you tell anyone what happened to you? You had just as much opportunity as that little boy did. And because I'm a dad, I'll come to that little guy's rescue every time. I did tell my T that this 3-way interaction I have going on with me, the boy, and the teen kid is kind of weird. But it's real: there are three parts of self that I'm trying to figure out how to get back together. And we / they aren't all on the same page.

@DanielQ432 - the very fact that you are asking these questions is a huge deal. You have started walking on this path toward healing and re-integration. Be willing. Be open. Don't think anything is too illogical or too weird. Let the kid in you talk to you. If you have dreams that you wake up from, you remember, and that bug you - don't dismiss them. Think about them. Our subconscious really is a playground for these parts of ourselves to interact in. And don't hesitate to keep asking questions. Be patient - it will come. And things will slowly make more sense as pieces fall into place. It's that, "Oh... that's what that guy meant when he said xyz...."

@mo Survivor The only dreams I have ever had are where I am just about to play and feel a 12yr olds penis, and start sucking on him, and then bang, the dream is gone before it goes any further. So very frustrating there is no proper closure. When I was 11 - 12, a ton of things were happening to me. I started visual signs of early puberty at age 11 1/2 -growing pubic hair. Grade 6 (11 yr old) bullies, urinating on my school dress shoes when wearing my running shoes for phys-ed, fist fights, steeling of my personal items in desk. and then that summer between grade 6 - 7 sexual abuse started up again with my so called friend. I sort of wanted it to stop, but yet at the same time it felt good to be naked outside in the bush but I still wanted to see him. And the physical changes in my body were extremely rapid, I was scared because I didn't know they would happen that fast, and I didn't want to ask my dad because I was embarrassed and thought I was doing something bad to myself to make these thing happen so fast. Then came grade 7, and the boys saw me during a change after swimming and hollared out loudly, HEY, DAVID has HAIRY BALLS! I was so embarrassed. I was the ONLY boy who had visual signs of puberty and it was embarrassing. Then came the illness that in one sense of the word, killed part of me, - yes, I had seizures while in hospital and I didn't know what was happening and trying to get a nurse to come over was impossible!, Those seizures killed off brain cells/circuits and erased information. So now dealing with the after effects of a rare illness, bullying, puberty, the abuse, I was a total mess. But, yet I felt sort of "normal" in all this! I look back now, and wish that so much could have been different, such as getting help and support from my parents, instead of abandoning me to deal with my broken self with school work. That alone almost killed me! Where do I begin? Is there a point, after all, I'm 60 yrs old now, won't be going back to work, my kids are grown and now have jobs, I'm on disability pension which is not very good, but what can I do? So I throw my hands up and say to Hell with it all! I know that's not a good way to look at things, but hey, I can't even make lemonade! Oh yeah, back to grade 7 illness for a sec. I started back at a different school after my illness, at least 3 weeks off, and it was either the first or second day back, around 1pm I started to get this headache above my left eye. It kept getting worse until I was seeing stars. I was also starting to feel sick. So I called my mother to come and pick me up. 1/2 hour later she finally arrives, I'm standing outside in the rain shivering and very much cold, but I wanted to get home asap! Anyways, for many years, I thought it was just a bad headache. turns out, it was more than a headache, I was having a stroke! Heck, 12 yr old boys don't have strokes!! That erased more information.

 

[MO-Survivor]

Where do I begin? Is there a point, after all, I'm 60 yrs old now, won't be going back to work, my kids are grown and now have jobs, I'm on disability pension which is not very good, but what can I do? So I throw my hands up and say to Hell with it all! I know that's not a good way to look at things, but hey, I can't even make lemonade!

David, a couple observations:

• I don’t think we are ever too old, or that it is ever too late to do this work. I really believe it’s worth it for the time we have left and more - the time we have after we die (if you believe I am afterlife). It is worth the time and effort because damnit, we are worth the time and effort!
• You can still improve your quality of life for the time you have left
• Your posts often rehash your history. I’m not saying that to complain and it’s okay that you do it. But the fact that you do rehash it tells me you have a lot you really want to process through. You really want and need someone to hear and “see” you. This alone makes me want to encourage you to pursue help

- MO

 

[Bornfree]

David, a couple observations:

• I don’t think we are ever too old, or that it is ever too late to do this work. I really believe it’s worth it for the time we have left and more - the time we have after we die (if you believe I am afterlife). It is worth the time and effort because damnit, we are worth the time and effort!
• You can still improve your quality of life for the time you have left
• Your posts often rehash your history. I’m not saying that to complain and it’s okay that you do it. But the fact that you do rehash it tells me you have a lot you really want to process through. You really want and need someone to hear and “see” you. This alone makes me want to encourage you to pursue help

- MO

Yes MO, thanks. I'm frustrated and angry that help was denied. I only sort of graduated high school, but really, in terms of education it stopped in grade 7!

 

[DanielQ432]

Yes MO, thanks. I'm frustrated and angry that help was denied. I only sort of graduated high school, but really, in terms of education it stopped in grade 7!

Yeah, it's very unfair that you weren't given the support you needed and also legally were entitled to (assuming you are in the US and attended school after 1973). But I have to tell you, I have 9 years of college, 2 degrees, one of them from a Big 10 school, and I'm still a f'ing mess. Education isn't the be all and end all of every situation, and it certainly doesn't fix any of this stuff. And frankly, there are a lot of highly educated idiots out there, and a lot of brilliant, successful people with not a lot of formal education but a lot of self-learning and practical knowledge.

 

[Blueshawk]

All Adult Sexual Acting Out is An Attempt To Reconnect with Ourselves​

I realized this is a bold statement. There is research that says that all male survivors will repeat their abuse. But that statement never seems to come with any understanding of explanation of why we repeat our abuse, especially as adults. Refer to the pictures above (that I put together) and then consider the following:

• You were sexually abused as a boy or as a teenager. When this happened, sexual and non-sexual intimacy were horribly tangled together
• After sexual abuse, all attempts to find non-sexual intimacy are sexualized because of this tangling
• Because of the trauma of CSA, your younger self was suppressed in one or more areas (emotions, memories, and / or thoughts)
• Suppression of your younger self ultimately resulted in fragmentation of your self:
  • Part 1: the Boy and / or Teen (one or two parts of self)
  • Part 2: The Adult Man (one part of self)
• Once fragmented, your different parts of self desperately long to reconnect in a non-sexual, intimate way. But you have no idea this is driving you. And you have no idea how to do this. You think your sexual acting out by yourself or with others is because you are screwed up, or you are re-playing your abuse. But this is not the case. Instead, it is an internal longing for connection & intimacy with yourself driving your behaviors, and sexual acting out is the only kind of intimacy you have known
• We will all try to solve this fragmentation / disconnection outside of usbecause we have no idea how to reconnect with our own internal parts of self
  • This can manifest as the boy in you attempting to intimately connect with the man you are (boy --> man): you find yourselves thinking about older men, looking at pictures / porn of older men, or even hooking up with older men sexually. This does nothing to reconnect these two parts of yourself and just brings pain and shame
  • This can manifest as the man in you attempting to intimately connect with the boy you were (man --> boy): you find yourselves having inappropriate thoughts of boys, looking at pictures of boys, or even seeking out boys in relationship
    • In Traumasexuality, the author states that all sex offenders he worked with in jail who had abused boys had pictures of boys on their wall. And in every case, the boy in the picture looked like the men when they were boys of the same age: same hair color, same eye color, etc. These boys on their walls were “copies” of the boy inside them
    • Obviously, this path can result in pain, shame, and worse: repeating the cycle of sexual abuse

What is the Cure?​

Men who have found freedom and healing from the consequences of CSA talk a lot about finding and connecting with the boy inside you. This is the only true path to freedom. The boy inside you needs you to:

• Protect him
• Physically and verbally show him affection
• Love him
• Play with him
• Give him attention
• “See” him
• Connect with him

I know I keep beating this drum, but if you can break down the wall between your adult self and your kid self, get past the self-hatred and anger, and finally connect the kid you with the adult you in a non-sexual, intimate way, the tangled threads of non-sexual intimacy and sexual intimacy will finally untangle. You will find that sexual thoughts that have plagued you for years and years finally fall away, and you are able to create non-sexual intimacy with others (including kids). And finally free from this confused, tangled mess, you can also find the freedom to have sexual intimacy with an adult partner without the kid in you confusing you with thoughts and desires you don't want and don't understand.

My Story​

The only real intimacy I had as a boy and as a teen was sexualized intimacy. I was sexually abused by my dad, and my mom was emotionally distant and offered little in terms of physical or verbal affection. My dad did do these things for me in terms of non-sexual intimacy:

• Protected me
• Played with me
• Gave me attention
• “Saw” me

However, all of those intimate connections were tainted and poisoned by sexual abuse, and non-sexual and sexual intimacy became horribly tangled for me. When I turned 18 and met my good friends in college who were able to show me non-sexual affection and intimacy, I finally received non-sexual intimacy I didn’t get as a boy. But by that point in my life I was already (unknown to me) fragmented into 3 parts: the boy (5-11), the teen (12-15), and the adult (16+). The boy and teen in me continued to long for reconnection but none of the parts of me recognized this or knew how to do this. Therefore, like all of you, I sought to reconnect the parts of myself by trying to connect with others - outside myself.

If you have been on Male Survivor for long, you have seen my journey over the last year and a half. 2021 was spent connecting with the boy (5-11) in me. And last year I finally found my way to connect with this boy and learned how to show him the non-sexual intimacy he has always wanted:

• I am very protective of him
• I have shown him physically and verbally affection (conversations telling him I love him, dreams where he has been affectionate with me and I have returned the affection)
• I have loved him by investing time in re-visiting what happened to him in therapy
• I play with him; that is, every time I play with my kids, he is there playing with us
• I gave him the attention he so desperately wanted by feeling what he felt
• I finally “saw” him and what he went through; I felt his hurt and pain
• I intimately connected with him

What has been the fruit of all of this? As this process played out, the non-sexual and sexual threads of intimacy - with respect to that boy - were untangled. Here is one example: I no longer need to or want to look externally to boys this age (5-11) for connection. In fact, if inappropriate thoughts come to mind now, for the first time I am able to ask myself this question in the moment: “Do you really want something sexual? Or do you just want to show and receive non-sexual intimacy?” And the answer each time is that I really only want non-sexual intimacy. This ability to separate sexual and non-sexual intimacy in those moments is new.

Another example: I still find myself occasionally playing “rescue” fantasies (rescuing boys 5-11 from sexual abuse) in my mind. These fantasies always bothered me in the past because I knew they reflected something broken in me. The cool part now is that when one of these fantasies does come along (which is very infrequently), I no longer have any desire to include scenes of boys being sexually abused (and me rescuing them from the midst of the abuse) in these fantasies. Because the threads of sexual and non-sexual intimacy between me and the 5-11 year old in me have been loosed, the sexual aspect is no longer a part of our interactions.

I also noticed an interesting phenomenon occurring in me as this was happening last year: my sexualized thinking shifted. For example, I know it sounds strange but I actually looked at a picture of myself at 14 years old and had sexual thoughts about that kid in me (which is very weird and had never happened before). But it makes sense. That teen boy wants non-sexual intimacy, but only knows sexualized intimacy. So things are still tangled up with the teen me (11-15) and we have to unravel those threads. Now that we are focusing on this teen kid in me this year in therapy, I am finding out he has all the same needs and desires the 5–11-year-old boy had (although he is a bit more difficult to deal with – like most teenagers). And as I figure out how to reconnect with this teen kid, I anticipate all three threads to finally untangle for me: sexual development, sexual intimacy, and non-sexual intimacy.

There is one other critical ingredient to all of this that I don’t want to leave out. That is this: all our lives, we have interpreted our own thoughts and actions through the filter of sexual abuse that was forced upon us. This filter has caused us to interpret our own thoughts and actions over the years incorrectly. For example, this whole post focuses on sexual and non-sexual intimacy. The filter of sexual abuse caused me to interpret all my desires for intimacy as bad – because the only intimacy I knew was what my dad did to me - and it was bad! This is why it is critical to do this work with someone trained to help with trauma and sexual abuse. They can help us create a new filter to interpret our thoughts and actions. Without this, reconnection with the younger parts of ourselves is very hard to do. We will continue to blame them and see them in much the same way as our abusers because of the faulty filter we were given.

I hope this post makes sense and is helpful. Please stop focusing so much on the negative behaviors you hate in yourselves, and start paying attention to the boy inside of you He needs you, and reconnecting with him is 100% the key to healing.

I wanna thank you for all the work and heart that went into this. I've read it 3 or 4 times, someone even sent me the link to it, and it all seems to make sense but it all seems kinda imaginary and not very real if that makes sense. I read the examples you give and they're concrete, but it all seems like a mental exercise. I mean, the teen I was when things happened isn't real anymore. Is it just a matter of feeling better about your past? I guess I'm missing it, but the things you said about screwed up ideas about intimacy hit home tho.

 

[Blueshawk]

Hey man, I should've read the thread, when I hit post your reply to Daniel came up and we kinda had the same questions and the answers are gonna be the same.

 

[DanielQ432]

I wanna thank you for all the work and heart that went into this. I've read it 3 or 4 times, someone even sent me the link to it, and it all seems to make sense but it all seems kinda imaginary and not very real if that makes sense. I read the examples you give and they're concrete, but it all seems like a mental exercise. I mean, the teen I was when things happened isn't real anymore. Is it just a matter of feeling better about your past? I guess I'm missing it, but the things you said about screwed up ideas about intimacy hit home tho.

It isn't "real" in a sense, it's kind of a thought exercise like you say, but OTOH, what are we really but just our thoughts and feelings, as we exist in each moment of time, connected to past and future only by memory, thought, and emotion? I've been so resistant to this kind of thing over the years because it does seem contrived, but just sitting here over the last few days I "get it" more than I did. I don't think I need to use the gimmicks that some of the books and some therapists would suggest. I think it's just a matter of remembering and feeling those memories of all of those bad experiences and challenging the way I feel about them, rather than just letting them wash over me and take me down mentally. I was thinking a lot yesterday and today about how traumatic my experiences at 12-15 were, and rather than just letting it wash over me with more pain and grief, I was telling myself that I was going to feel alright with it, and just telling myself I was sorry for all of the things that shouldn't have been. Maybe it seems contrived, but since no one in the real world said those things to me when I was going through that stuff, it really has made me feel a little better to just say them to myself.

@MO-Survivor - eight words that I think I've longed to hear at a lot of times in my life, either together or as two separate phrases, that to be honest, a lot of people in my life have failed me on, even now in the few relationships I have with any human being: "I love you, and things will be ok" That's is the essence of what is missing behind every bad event and every terrible relationship in my life. It's a shame that the people who should have been on my side in life either were the enemy or sat it out and weren't there for me when they should have been.

There were a lot of times in my life, to be honest, I could have used someone to just tell me "it will be ok" and I never got that, or worse, I got some kind of negativity or even hate or scorn or anger or whatever from someone who should have been on my side. So, I guess for me, some of the "thought exercise" part of this is just doing for myself what others failed me at doing, which is telling myself "it will be ok."

 

[MO-Survivor]

It isn't "real" in a sense, it's kind of a thought exercise like you say, but OTOH, what are we really but just our thoughts and feelings, as we exist in each moment of time, connected to past and future only by memory, thought, and emotion? I've been so resistant to this kind of thing over the years because it does seem contrived, but just sitting here over the last few days I "get it" more than I did. I don't think I need to use the gimmicks that some of the books and some therapists would suggest. I think it's just a matter of remembering and feeling those memories of all of those bad experiences and challenging the way I feel about them, rather than just letting them wash over me and take me down mentally. I was thinking a lot yesterday and today about how traumatic my experiences at 12-15 were, and rather than just letting it wash over me with more pain and grief, I was telling myself that I was going to feel alright with it, and just telling myself I was sorry for all of the things that shouldn't have been. Maybe it seems contrived, but since no one in the real world said those things to me when I was going through that stuff, it really has made me feel a little better to just say them to myself.

@MO-Survivor - eight words that I think I've longed to hear at a lot of times in my life, either together or as two separate phrases, that to be honest, a lot of people in my life have failed me on, even now in the few relationships I have with any human being: "I love you, and things will be ok" That's is the essence of what is missing behind every bad event and every terrible relationship in my life. It's a shame that the people who should have been on my side in life either were the enemy or sat it out and weren't there for me when they should have been.

There were a lot of times in my life, to be honest, I could have used someone to just tell me "it will be ok" and I never got that, or worse, I got some kind of negativity or even hate or scorn or anger or whatever from someone who should have been on my side. So, I guess for me, some of the "thought exercise" part of this is just doing for myself what others failed me at doing, which is telling myself "it will be ok."

Wow @DanielQ432. Your response to @Blueshawk is spot on.

@Blueshawk, I think almost all of us start in a place where this approach to dealing with our past seems imaginary and not real. But when someone posts a thread like this (like I did), it’s only after a year of slowly moving from “imaginary” to something that’s very real, tangible and helpful. So don’t close yourself off to the idea, but you also don’t have to figure it all out.

Start thinking about the boy you were - the memories and feelings, etc. That’s at least how I started on this road: not closed off to the idea, and diving cognitively into remembering past events and then, with my T’s promptings and question - feelings. Then one day on the way to therapy I found myself having a one way conversation with that kid in me (me talking to him). My T asked what he said back and encouraged two-way communication, but that didn’t really happen… until the day I was home at work and that wall I had built between us came crumbling down - and his deep, grief filled feelings flooded me (seemingly out of nowhere). I had read something that resonated so much with my own young grief that the wall just crumbled. But I wasn’t looking for that to happen. And then I started having dreams where my little boy would show up (surprising me every time).

So this is a process - something that takes time. It cannot be forced. Be open to it and see what happens. And maybe you get to where you, like Daniel did, can talk to yourself (you and the kid in you). You won’t get much back unless you are willing to allow things (feelings in particular) make it past the wall you have between you and that kid.

@DanielQ432 - I completely relate to those words you needed to hear, and the real tragedy it was and still is: that no one helped you and said those words to you. What a loss that was for that boy that lives in you to this day Why wasn’t anyone there for him? Why did no one love that boy? Wasn’t he worth it? Couldn’t anyone see his pain?

Well, I’m here to tell you and the little boy inside you - yes! You are worth it little Daniel. And I’m sorry that people (even adults - who are supposed to act like adults and take care of you) were so selfish and so consumed with themselves that they couldn’t see what you were going through in order to help you and love you like you needed. But we are here now - me, adult Daniel, and everyone on this site. And we love you! You are really going to be okay. Daniel is seeing to that. Let him take care of you and show you the love you never received. He wants it as much as you do, and he is able to give it to you now.

 

[MO-Survivor]

A few other thoughts (I think a lot in the shower ):

• Fragmentation and parts of self is something well established for trauma survivors in psychology and counseling. The second picture - with the brick walls - shows fragmentation. Our minds wall off events, memories, and emotions that are too hard to process at the time. And this is different than disassociation, which is your separation of your mind and body during trauma. Disassociation results in you not triggering the emotion part of your brain and thereby also not creating memories
• Look at the onion picture above. We and our therapists (and support groups) spend a lot of time addressing the outer layers of CSA consequences. In doing so we are trying to “manage” behaviors, and there is value in that. But you will find yourself constantly managing those things your whole life - because the core of that onion never gets touched
• Watch the movie The Adam Project on Netflix. The movie shows the adult and kid Adam interacting after the adult Adam goes back in time. It kind of brings to life what @DanielQ432 said about the fact the kid we were did live as a person at a point in time. There are a lot of good themes in the movie to think about that apply to us: how we feel about ourselves, how we don’t necessarily remember things as an adult the way they actually were, relationships with parents and non-sexual intimate and the lack of it

- MO