Trying not to let something bug me - and its dumb

[trishy]

Hi wgu
Its a complex and clouded situation you have described. I would be feeling torn about the ring wearing, the push and pull that he does, and the unavailable presence that you describe his behavior as. I have 2 questions that come to mind, which i hope are ok for me to ask, as they are asked from a place of love and concern for you.

Firstly, what is it that you want? I can read what he tells you he wants, and what you want for him, but i wonder about how passive you are feeling. Are you "driving your bus" or do you feel more like a passenger in your bus?

Secondly, what if he means everything he has said? What kind of boundaries should you be seeking for your own peace of mind? If the 12 mths timeline is up soon, it would be reasonable to have some discussion about departure dates and any other normal logistical information and arrangements. It sounds like you have been super supportive, loving and kind. I hope you have a therapist to help you be just as supportive, loving and kind to yourself. If he is able to 'have his cake and eat it too' why wouldnt he just extend his stay if you are allowing an extended period of freedom from adult responsibilities? Its a tough call, but if you dont like a cake eating renter, it really is your job to do something about it for yourself (love the term too btw!). My experience is takers will keep taking untill the givers stop letting them, and that is my job as the giver, not theirs.

I felt like some of what you describe feeling is similar to my situation, however, the push and pull and lack of commitment is not in my situation. I have had previous partners do that too though and know how confusing i found the mixed messages. I read books by Cloud and Townsend about safe people and boundaries which helped me see thru the fog of hope, love, pain and rejection. It may be helpful to see if there are any Ted Talks or You Tube talks from them, perhaps.

Living with a partner with PTSD and CSA is not one i would knowingly 'sign up' for, but like you, now we are here, we go back to what we value and hold as truth about how we choose to act in how we interact, support and care for our husbands. (That isn't code for being a doormat!) Every time i have hit a wall, my man has stepped up and taken right action as we slowly work our way thru this messy confusing time. I wish this for you, but your husband is telling you very different messages and in public is sending single man messages. You do deserve respect, love and consideration, PTSD and CSA or not.

We are strong, wgu, but we need to use this loving strength for ourselves also.

 

[WontGiveUp]

Well - Trishy - those are some very powerful and very appropriate questions, ones that I think I have been avoiding you know? I am really glad you asked them though - giving me lots to think about.
I need to really give this some thought before I respond, as I want to make sure that I am truthful with myself But yeah AMAZING questions...

 

[WontGiveUp]

What do I want.... well, I have been pondering this for a long time.

What i want is someone who is going to stick with me through to the end and not run away. Thats really the sum of it. Romance comes and goes with the tide. That "in love" feeling that you have at the get go, also comes and goes with the tide.

There is a speech in the movie "Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel", where one of the male characters is giving a speech in honor of a wedding. Backstory: Well, the object of his affection had been afraid to commit. Both were older, and the lady who was afraid said she just needed more time to "get there" while talking to a work colleague. Her work colleague asked her "How much time do you have?" and something inside her realized that she was wasting time. So she altered the man's speech that he was reading, and said the following:

"For this is what the young make us remember...that in the end...that in the end, it's all very simple...that all it takes is to look into someone's eyes...and say... "Yes..."this is what I want." And for them to reply... "it's what I want, too..."and there's nothing to be afraid of..."

And with that, she told him she wasn't afraid anymore, and that she was ready to be with him for good. Thats all I want. The meat of what I want is that my husband will be there for me, no matter what - that I have his back and he has mine. Everything else comes when you have that. You have to work at it, but when you "buy" the house, you want to work on it to keep it running and make it your home. You dont when you just "rent". Make sense?

How that "want" translates to my specific situation is that:

1. I want my husband to put his ring back on, and tell me that he wants to stick with me to the end (and mean it). He said just 2 years ago when he came back from the second time he left me that he KNEW that things would be hard (all the trauma he was dealing with plus my mom dying of cancer) but that we had to stick together, and he made me promise with him that we would not run away, that we would talk through everything - because according to him, his life was with me, and he knew it to the core of his being. I want him to remember that, and MEAN it. I trusted him last time, and I let go of all the fears and concerns I had, and he fed me to the wolves at the first test of his promise to me.

2. No more lying. He knows this is a problem and has actively started working on it. Its been the root of ALL our issues together.

3. I want him to work with me to create a marriage where BOTH of our needs get met, and that we BOTH feel safe and secure in. This means, his voice is as important as mine, and vice versa.

4. While this is a wish - its something he needs to figure out on his own. I want him to work on the control issues he has. He is leaving our marriage because he feels controlled, when the real reasons for that have nothing to do with me. He has many people in his life ready to help him and want him to succeed, so they take him under their wing but his reaction is to do the opposite of anything they suggest - because he thinks if he ever does anything else suggests, then its them controlling him. He also has a REAL issue with manipulating me and controlling me with his threats of leaving. That will need to stop. I have never controlled him, but have realized that over the years he has controlled me with threats to get his way or things he wants. I choose to believe this is not intentional, but just how he has learned to control his environment. However, I am done with the threats, which is why I am taking him as his word. I will not be controlled anymore by his threats of leaving. He has the freedom to do anything he wants, however there are consiquences to choices made, and I will no longer be the one harmed by those consiquences.


I believe that its absolutely possible for us to have an amazing relationship. We have mostly the same tastes and likes and ideals with just enough difference to keep things interesting and new. We agree about money, religion, politics, we agree about hobbies and have a shared DEEP love of doing our hobby together. We laugh every day, we like the same shows, movies (though sometimes he likes scarier movies - so he goes with his daughter to those, and it doesnt bother me at ALL - its a great way that they bond and I encourage it), we even like the same foods (though I lean a bit more healthy than he does - but he makes his own decisions about what he eats and drinks, and I am fine with that). We have the same asthetic taste, we like the same colors, we like the same activities. He is more social than I am, so that really encourages me to break out of my shell, and he is also a homebody like me - content to stay at home and binge on our favorite shows. There isnt anyone i rather spend time with than him.

The thing is, I do love him, and I see who he is on the inside, behind this mask that tells him no one loves him truly and that everyone is just controlling him. I see his talents, his honor, his chivalry. I believe that he has what it takes to succeed in anything he chooses to do. What I dont know about though is his fortitude to do it. He runs at the first hint of difficulty or accountability. The last time he he said he was leaving was because I confronted him about lying to me again about smoking. I wasn't even MAD about the smoking, I was upset about the lying, but I told him I understood why he felt the compulsion to do so (lie) and that I needed him to work hard to tell the truth so that I could believe him.


And the final lines, advice for both young and old:

Let go. That's when the fun starts. Because as I once heard someone say...there's no present like the time.


We are in middle age, and just starting to find our feet after the chaos of the past few years. It finally feels like we can start living our dreams, and he is running from it because he thinks that the "in love" feeling should just be there, with no effort and never go away. Its so sad. I personally think its just an excuse to get out because this is new territory for him and he is afraid, even though I have given him so many outs over the years... and still he stayed, or he came back after leaving two times.

As for meaning everything he says... well, I am taking him at his word that he means it. He said he could not be a good husband to me, so I am believe him him (even though his actions recently show that he can be a VERY good husband). He says he wants to be alone - so I am believing him (even though he makes a point to be with me, and makes a point to tell me that he wishes I was at practice, or with him at events when i cannot be etc). He says he wants to do his own thing and not feel controlled or trapped - I believe him (even though he has total freedom to do what he wants, I have never and do not NOT NOW control him - but I refuse to be bullied and will hold him accountable). SO I am letting him go. My boundries are being built slowly but surely and very securely and very very seriously. As much as I love him, and believe me - I DO love him, I no longer feel that he has the right to tread all over me "because he was abused". And he will have to own his decisions because I will not. He doesnt find our marriage or life together to have enough value for him to even wear his ring. I have received that message loud and clear and have taken it to heart and believed him. I am moving on.

If he wants to restore our marriage, and work on the problems WE have in our relationship then I would be open to that restoration (not the CSA - that is his and his alone to manage, but he can certainly address the effects it has on us, and I would support him in any work he wants to do there). But I am not interested in being a roommate that he utilizes as a bank account to live and function indefinitely while he "figures things out". Just like I have made an active decision to help him based on very specific criteria, I have also made active decisions to work on myself and my own issues of fear, abandonment and neglect. I am building back my self esteem, regaining my health and working on becoming a far better, more attractive "me" than I ever have been before. I am setting goals - not based on mutual lives, but because *I* want them. He will either be there with me for the ride, or he can get the hell out of the way. But he will no longer stop me or hold me back with his threats of abandonment, his neglectful treatment or his own fears. He has hurt me yes. I have hurt him - and I own that. And I am working hard to correct the faults I have in myself so that I no longer do that. There are many things I have learned about having a good, strong, successful marriage - but it doesnt come on a silver platter. Its a choice you make every day to trust that partner, to look them full on in the ugliest part of them and choose to love them no matter what. Its what I gave to him, I have stood by him, walked faithfully by him, always kept honest with him, and always cherished him.

I choose to continue to do that, even when he chooses to abandon me. I do it because to do less would be a hurt to my own heart and soul. There will be a time very soon when his stuff is packed, and out, and he is off living in his apartment somewhere, and his life will no longer be blended with mine. I want to be able to look back and know that I did EVERYTHING I could to be a loving, faithful wife to the end. There wont be any hollow "I tried" statements - I DID.


And because I DID... I learned about CSA, I learned about ADHD, I learned how to see past the negative behaviors and harm someone can inflict (knowing or not) and see the good in them. Because I DID, I came here, and met people like Kevin, HH, Luke and Ceremony and many others - who have strengthened me with their words, who have encouraged me and made me believe in hope and love once again. Sounds trite I am sure, but I am glad of all of it. I am a FAR stronger person than I was before. Its not just the things that happened in my marriage of course, but that is probably the single biggest hurt I have dealt with in the past 7 years.

I love this beautiful present, this gift of time. I no longer will waste a precious moment of it.

Lawdy - I know I rambled, and so sorry about the length of this. I am still in recovery from surgery - so had a bit of word vomit here. I hope it made sense and that I stuck to topic (I tend to float all over the place here). Just WRITING in these forums makes me feel stronger. Makes me feel... not alone. Its amazing how the connections made here from all over the place can impact one's life. Grateful ... I am very very grateful.

 

[Ceremony]

Hi WGU, I see your hope, and strength you're thinking through. Reading along during this time, I can acknowledge that the MS connection has helped. I see here, where we face, or work towards facing our vulnerabilities, then choices become present.

I can relate to your description of your husband pulling back from delving into complexity. Whatever that may entail, I think most of my experience has shown me that I go just so far, then fear sets in. My anxieties from being bullied have kept the doubt voice speaking in my mind. I also suffer from memory issues. I can seemingly grasp and learn almost anything, but retaining the pertinent information isn't likely. I'll have to constantly refresh my abilities or they regress fast. Then too, I find it hard to recall things just said to me, let alone reading things over and over. I have varying conclusions about why. Most are anxiety, and stress related.

I'm sure you've read or seen these things before, it's not me thinking to share information, just commisarating about wishing he would wake up! Quite a bit similar to my thinking regarding my wife.

I told her last night that the stress of her behavior, but specific to her tone of voice was adding to my difficulty losing weight. She denined it, but after I repeatedly asked her to lower her voice and change her tone, she did on those two occasions. I don't have the strength yet for a marathon of that, but it was a sort of success. But, my son is now infected with yelling. It seems that to make it, I might have to break the silence with him.

I told him Dad's been working on the hurt from being bullied when I was his age. Something he can identify. I have been given some good responses from him. But, the stresses here kick him in sometimes and he just wants to lash out with yelling. He's got my loudness and it rings through my skull, into my every fiber. I have to beg him to stop. He doesn't get the harm.

Two men here on MS warned me of ongoing trauma, new stuff that may arise from living this stress. I've been resigned to my fate so long, and it takes so much extra effort, I can only see and do just so much. I want that EMDR very badly. If my brain could be on my side, instead of this thing I endure!, Maybe there's still hope for me.

I'm sure, definite, that EMDR is a pathway toward healing for me. Dragging it out is weighing heavily. You might not have read I finally found an EMDR training connection willing to check if I could be a trainee subject. Though that was 3 weeks ago. I checked back with her yesterday and she had tried, and agreed to try again.

Well, you know me, on and on...

I hope the surgery gave results, and peace of mind?

 

[dark empathy]

@Ceremony, sorry to hear your still having problems, though it is encouraging your working on things and breaking silence about your own reactions. One thing I've found myself, is that one major part of being married is being willing to admit my own faults to someone else in an effort to work on them together, it's not easy even when I don't have the kind of problems with my wife that you do.

@Wgu, glad some of this helped, you definitely deserve happiness yourself and I hope you find it in some way in the future.
One of the most problematic things about csa, is how isolating it is. I've always been an introvert, but I've had points where I physically can't bare to be in someone's presence for more than a few minutes, heck I've had points where I have actively tried to avoid leaving the house for four or five days at a time.

I do understand what this feels like, but equally it isn't an excuse to actively mistreat someone, indeed I usually found the best way of dealing was simply admitting to others that I needed to be alone.

I will confess this lead me to do things that were at least mildly rude, such as when my parents drove a hundred miles to visit and I spent most of the time in a room on my own, curled up on my bed reading, but I did try to be reasonably honest about what I needed and was doing.

In fairness I can't say what I would've done if I'd have still been in that point while I was married, then again the fact that I am! married is largely the reason I'm not at that stage any more, and one thing I have noticed about being married, or at least in the sort of relationship I have with my lady, is that it is physically impossible to be as intimate as we are, ---- intimate in all senses, and not! be absolutely honest with each other.

I do hope things ge better in whatever way they can since you deserve it.

 

[Ceremony]

How are you doing WGU? I hope the medical concerns are calmed?

I hope you find something good for you this weekend, and feel up to your challenges.

Thanks for all the good karma you give back.

 

[HealingHope]