*Triggers Possible* Unsure if I Consented

[scaredy-cat]

When I was 19 I "hooked up" with a 29-year-old guy I met online. This happened at the end of the summer and my birthday is in August, so I had just turned 19 and also had recently graduated high school in the spring. In school I was an outsider and had been treated for depression during my senior year. I had never had sex before, at least not that I remembered at that time. Seeing my peers with girlfriends and healthy social lives fed my loneliness, and for most of my teenage years I struggled with my sexuality. These were some of the motivations for going with this guy.
The dude took me in his car to a parking-lot in the middle of the night. I still lived with my parents, so I had to sneak out. I knew what I was getting into, but I still felt surprised when he took out his penis and pulled down my pants. We jerked off and did oral on each other very briefly. I didn't mind this part so much. He took the lead during all of it.
After no time at all, he was pressing me to try anal sex. I was unsure about it and didn't respond. Suddenly, he took out lubricant and tried to get my penis to enter him, but I guess I didn't fit that well because I kept slipping out. The next thing I knew, he was pushing me onto my back. I still vividly recall the cold texture of the lubricant as he put a finger in me. Then he entered me with his penis. I didn't say "yes" or "no," but I don't remember him asking either. During the whole encounter I didn't say much of anything at all. It's difficult for me to think of it as rape though, because why else would I have gotten into the car with him if not for sex. I don't know what to call it though. I didn't enjoy it. That's all I know.
The guy fucked me for a long time. I just froze. I felt like I couldn't move or do anything. He wasn't holding me down, but I couldn't move, or speak. I felt trapped in my own body, but, at the same time, felt like I was in a dream-like state. I had an intense sensation that what was happening wasn't real.
I remember he commented on my erection and said that I must be enjoying it or something, though I didn't feel like I was. The sex went on for a while until he eventually got frustrated that I wouldn't ejaculate and decided to give up.
Throughout the encounter he had kept trying to make-out and he tried to kiss me again when it was over. I had been resisting his attempts to kiss me on the mouth because his breath stunk of cigarette smoke. I had never kissed anyone on the lips before, and maybe I wouldn't have minded him being a smoker so much if he didn't keep forcing his tongue down my throat. He complained that I "didn't seem into it," and seemed overall frustrated with me. I admit I felt a little guilty, and I had the thought that I had spoiled what was supposed to be a good time.
The guy at least drove me home after he was done with me. As I was getting out of the car I actually said, "thank you," because I didn't know what else to say and felt like I had upset him and wanted to make up for it in some small way, I guess. Remembering that still makes me cringe and I hate that I said that. After getting out of the car, I walked into my house without looking back or even noticing him drive off. I felt like a robot or a zombie. I laid on the couch in the dark feeling empty.
I texted the guy a few times after that. He tried to convince me to hook up with his friend. He was scarily insistent on it, promising to meet me again if I did that for him. Thankfully I had enough sense not to do that and I deleted the guy's number. I felt betrayed though, since it was now obvious that he only used me. I guess I should have known it from the start, he was a stranger, but I had this naive notion that maybe he cared about me on some level. I think that's why I agreed to it in the first place, because I wanted some form of acceptance and companionship. Those ideas were shattered.
I'm 24 now. The whole incident was 5 years ago, but I still think about it. I hate it and feel like such a fool for doing it in the first place. It bothers me a lot and I carry hatred towards myself and towards that guy. Maybe I shouldn't hate him though, because I never said "no" and I never asked him to stop. Maybe I shouldn't even be posting this here because maybe it was consensual and now I just regret it. I don't know.
I'm so confused.
I haven't had sex with a guy, or with anyone, since then. I've pretty much accepted that I'm gay but I think that experience, and partial memories of experiences in my childhood, have turned me off of sex for a while. Even though sex is almost all I think about. I guess I'm pretty messed up.
I wanted to post this here because I don't know what to think. Was this consensual? It's hard for me to tell. The whole experience was so weird and otherworldly that it's hard to process, even after 5 years. Anyway, I'd appreciate some feedback on this, and thanks for hearing me out (or reading me out).

 

[Tableau in Stasis]

Was this consensual?

Lack of confirmed informed consent for all parts of a sexual encounter, is a lack of consent. Being triggered into a dissociative (derealization and probably depersonalization) state is telling enough that it was more than simple "regret." That freeze response is the body and minds response to a threatening (and not just physically or violently threatening) event.

I texted the guy a few times after that. He tried to convince me to hook up with his friend. He was scarily insistent on it, promising to meet me again if I did that for him. Thankfully I had enough sense not to do that and I deleted the guy's number.

Dodged a scarf bullet there given his lack of obtaining consent before. Now I've never topped a guy before (I'm 19 almost 20 myself) I think it's pretty fucking obvious if the other person becomes unresponsive and/or numbly compliant during a new sexual experience. It seems damn hard to accidentally miss is all I'm saying.

I had been resisting his attempts to kiss me on the mouth because his breath stunk of cigarette smoke.

That is also clearly rescinded consent which is always supposed to be an option during a sexual encounter to stay within only what is comfortable, agreed upon, and stays that way.

I remember he commented on my erection and said that I must be enjoying it or something, though I didn't feel like I was.

An erection and even orgasm are both automatic physical responses with no actual connection to your emotional state of being or lack of comfort and consent. Manual stimulation of the prostate will produce an erection for basically everyone. Hence why it's quite common even for a digital rectal exam at the doctor regardless of the non sexual intent. Same with any other stimulation of erogenous body parts.


Moreover basically all of the other issues and symptoms, thought processes, and behaviors are all very very common with SA and Male SA in particular (and CSA ofc). In any case, welcome to MS, as we say: I'm sorry that you have to be here (that you have been abused), but I'm glad that you reached out here for support. I would encourage you to read other Adult (particularly Young Adult) survivors stories if/when you are able to. Feel free to message me (or most of our active members and anyone who has a "Greeter" tag by their name) directly anytime. If you have questions, need a sounding board, need some advice/help, or just wanna chat at all!

Warmly,

~Stasis

 

[thePineTreeKid]

First of all, welcome. Second of all, I'm sorry you went through this.

I was unsure about it and didn't respond . . . I didn't say "yes" or "no," but I don't remember him asking either.

Consent involves confirmed agreement. The absence of a response does not equate to a yes. If no confirmation of a go ahead is given it is a no.
the only time there is implied consent is if someone is unconscious and dying/needs assistance; this only pertains to CPR First Aid and the like of the medical field.

I just froze. I felt like I couldn't move or do anything. He wasn't holding me down, but I couldn't move, or speak. I felt trapped in my own body, but, at the same time, felt like I was in a dream-like state. I had an intense sensation that what was happening wasn't real.

I was sexual abused at a kiddo, from memories that I found repressed, I knownthe feeling well. I'm truly sorry that you were forced to experience this.

I remember he commented on my erection and said that I must be enjoying it or something, though I didn't feel like I was.

That's the body's natural reaction that happens whether you enjoy it or not. Just because an erection happened doesn't mean you enjoy it, it just means that your body was naturally reacting to stimuli it was made to react to. It happens when people are sexually abused.

Thankfully I had enough sense not to do that and I deleted the guy's number.

Good move. That guy sounds like he has unresolved issues that he's allowed to make him a creep and a predator.

I felt betrayed though, since it was now obvious that he only used me. I guess I should have known it from the start, he was a stranger, but I had this naive notion that maybe he cared about me on some level.

You have the right to feel betrayed. There is an intrinsic part of everyone that deserves the base level of respect, strangers or not. Strangers or family that don't deal with their crap will use people to make themselves feel better and to run from themselves and their issues.
Hindsight is 20/20. There are a lot if things looking back we "should have" seen. You cannot change the past, but you can use the past to learn and grow and become mindful so that you can protect yourself from that in the future.

Shikata ga nai: it cannot be helped.
It is a Japanese principle that is about accepting what you can control and learning/striving to move onward from the things you cannot control.
You cannot control your past, neither can I. But we can control our actions and what we do with this experience. For a lot of people (me included) therapy is a healthy way for us to continue onward from trauma and heal.

Wabi-sabi: beauty in the imperfections, the incompleteness, the impermanent.
Nature isn't perfect or complete or permanent. It is a mess of scared ever shift beauty that tells of its Creator. Likewise is the same with us. Tied to this is Kintsugi: golden joinery. It is the act of taking a broken vessel and joining it back together with an adhesive that is then painted with gold, black, or red outer coating making the repaired fractures stand out displaying it's beautifully mared and still full of worth and value. Our mared beauty is within rather than without.

Mottainai: nothing is wasted.
It has been equated to recycling, and usually used for objects believing that everything deserves respect and gratitude. I believe all the more that this applies to each and every human too. Our experience deserve respect, to be processed and worked through. They deserve gratitude, for we can reach others with these hurts that people who've never been in ours shoes can't. The gratitude will come later as healing begins to take hold.

Oubaitori: never compare oneself (with others).
Kaizen: continuous improvement/striving.
These two are very closely linked as I seem them. Oubaitori is about understanding every is different and as each blossom of a tree blooms in its own ordained timing, so does each person grow in their own season and time.
Kaizen is about the continual pursuit of improvement. This can be for a business but is no less applicable to our individual lives.
Always improving without the compromise of comaping oneself to another. A challenge to grow authenticly and to authenticly grow.
You can grow alongside others but cannot be other than you. You cannot grow another nor can another grow you; rather each is individually responsible for their own growth but can sur each other onward from were they were to where they are going/will be. This also being up liminality (for another post).
Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17)

I carry hatred towards myself and towards that guy.

I understand this. I feltnthe same way. Be gracious with yourself. You didn't make him do anything he wasn't will to do or did. He is responsible for his actions alone. You aren't weak, worthless, devoid of value. You are a human being in the Imago Dei (can message you about that outside of this post if you'd like) not an object for another's pleasure. You are loved and treasured regardless of what has been done to you!
For me I learned forgiveness is not for them, forgiveness is for me. It is to let go of the hurt and to begin healing. It shifts focus from hurt to healing, from what they've to what will you do.

Moreover basically all of the other issues and symptoms, thought processes, and behaviors are all very very common with SA and Male SA in particular (and CSA ofc). In any case, welcome to MS, as we say: I'm sorry that you have to be here (that you have been abused), but I'm glad that you reached out here for support. I would encourage you to read other Adult (particularly Young Adult) survivors stories if/when you are able to. Feel free to message me (or most of our active members and anyone who has a "Greeter" tag by their name) directly anytime. If you have questions, need a sounding board, need some advice/help, or just wanna chat at all!

Couldn't say it any better. I fully agree with Stasis.
Feel free to reach out as well.

Shalom aleichem (peace be upon you)
thePineTreeKid

 

[Tableau in Stasis]

First of all, welcome. Second of all, I'm sorry you went through this.

Consent involves confirmed agreement. The absence of a response does not equate to a yes. If no confirmation of a go ahead is given it is a no.
the only time there is implied consent is if someone is unconscious and dying/needs assistance; this only pertains to CPR First Aid and the like of the medical field.

I was sexual abused at a kiddo, from memories that I found repressed, I knownthe feeling well. I'm truly sorry that you were forced to experience this.

That's the body's natural reaction that happens whether you enjoy it or not. Just because an erection happened doesn't mean you enjoy it, it just means that your body was naturally reacting to stimuli it was made to react to. It happens when people are sexually abused.


Good move. That guy sounds like he has unresolved issues that he's allowed to make him a creep and a predator.


You have the right to feel betrayed. There is an intrinsic part of everyone that deserves the base level of respect, strangers or not. Strangers or family that don't deal with their crap will use people to make themselves feel better and to run from themselves and their issues.
Hindsight is 20/20. There are a lot if things looking back we "should have" seen. You cannot change the past, but you can use the past to learn and grow and become mindful so that you can protect yourself from that in the future.

Shikata ga nai: it cannot be helped.
It is a Japanese principle that is about accepting what you can control and learning/striving to move onward from the things you cannot control.
You cannot control your past, neither can I. But we can control our actions and what we do with this experience. For a lot of people (me included) therapy is a healthy way for us to continue onward from trauma and heal.

Wabi-sabi: beauty in the imperfections, the incompleteness, the impermanent.
Nature isn't perfect or complete or permanent. It is a mess of scared ever shift beauty that tells of its Creator. Likewise is the same with us. Tied to this is Kintsugi: golden joinery. It is the act of taking a broken vessel and joining it back together with an adhesive that is then painted with gold, black, or red outer coating making the repaired fractures stand out displaying it's beautifully mared and still full of worth and value. Our mared beauty is within rather than without.

Mottainai: nothing is wasted.
It has been equated to recycling, and usually used for objects believing that everything deserves respect and gratitude. I believe all the more that this applies to each and every human too. Our experience deserve respect, to be processed and worked through. They deserve gratitude, for we can reach others with these hurts that people who've never been in ours shoes can't. The gratitude will come later as healing begins to take hold.

Oubaitori: never compare oneself (with others).
Kaizen: continuous improvement/striving.
These two are very closely linked as I seem them. Oubaitori is about understanding every is different and as each blossom of a tree blooms in its own ordained timing, so does each person grow in their own season and time.
Kaizen is about the continual pursuit of improvement. This can be for a business but is no less applicable to our individual lives.
Always improving without the compromise of comaping oneself to another. A challenge to grow authenticly and to authenticly grow.
You can grow alongside others but cannot be other than you. You cannot grow another nor can another grow you; rather each is individually responsible for their own growth but can sur each other onward from were they were to where they are going/will be. This also being up liminality (for another post).
Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17)


I understand this. I feltnthe same way. Be gracious with yourself. You didn't make him do anything he wasn't will to do or did. He is responsible for his actions alone. You aren't weak, worthless, devoid of value. You are a human being in the Imago Dei (can message you about that outside of this post if you'd like) not an object for another's pleasure. You are loved and treasured regardless of what has been done to you!
For me I learned forgiveness is not for them, forgiveness is for me. It is to let go of the hurt and to begin healing. It shifts focus from hurt to healing, from what they've to what will you do.

Couldn't say it any better. I fully agree with Stasis.
Feel free to reach out as well.

Shalom aleichem (peace be upon you)
thePineTreeKid

Wowza using a lot of Japanese, a smidge of Latin, and a little bit of Hebrew in the same reply haha. Cool.

Bshoufak Sadiq (See you later),

~Stasis

 

[scaredy-cat]

Lack of confirmed informed consent for all parts of a sexual encounter, is a lack of consent. Being triggered into a dissociative (derealization and probably depersonalization) state is telling enough that it was more than simple "regret." That freeze response is the body and minds response to a threatening (and not just physically or violently threatening) event.

Dodged a scarf bullet there given his lack of obtaining consent before. Now I've never topped a guy before (I'm 19 almost 20 myself) I think it's pretty fucking obvious if the other person becomes unresponsive and/or numbly compliant during a new sexual experience. It seems damn hard to accidentally miss is all I'm saying.

That is also clearly rescinded consent which is always supposed to be an option during a sexual encounter to stay within only what is comfortable, agreed upon, and stays that way.

An erection and even orgasm are both automatic physical responses with no actual connection to your emotional state of being or lack of comfort and consent. Manual stimulation of the prostate will produce an erection for basically everyone. Hence why it's quite common even for a digital rectal exam at the doctor regardless of the non sexual intent. Same with any other stimulation of erogenous body parts.


Moreover basically all of the other issues and symptoms, thought processes, and behaviors are all very very common with SA and Male SA in particular (and CSA ofc). In any case, welcome to MS, as we say: I'm sorry that you have to be here (that you have been abused), but I'm glad that you reached out here for support. I would encourage you to read other Adult (particularly Young Adult) survivors stories if/when you are able to. Feel free to message me (or most of our active members and anyone who has a "Greeter" tag by their name) directly anytime. If you have questions, need a sounding board, need some advice/help, or just wanna chat at all!

Warmly,

~Stasis

Thanks for the support. I have never talked with anyone or even written about this experience before now. Finally putting it out there has helped to put it more into perspective. You brought up a lot of good points. I always thought that my abuser (first time I've thought of him as that) just didn't notice my lack of response, but now that you mention it, it would be pretty hard to miss. I suppose I didn't want to believe he could be so callous as to simply not care about my willingness to participate. And I guess I've been in denial about my having been abused. It's a painful but necessary realization.
I also never considered that I had a dissociative episode during the experience. But that's probably what it was. I had similar feelings of derealization as a younger teen and went to counseling for it, but nobody ever put a name to it or explained it to me.

 

[scaredy-cat]

You have the right to feel betrayed. There is an intrinsic part of everyone that deserves the base level of respect, strangers or not. Strangers or family that don't deal with their crap will use people to make themselves feel better and to run from themselves and their issues.
Hindsight is 20/20. There are a lot if things looking back we "should have" seen. You cannot change the past, but you can use the past to learn and grow and become mindful so that you can protect yourself from that in the future.

Shikata ga nai: it cannot be helped.
It is a Japanese principle that is about accepting what you can control and learning/striving to move onward from the things you cannot control.
You cannot control your past, neither can I. But we can control our actions and what we do with this experience. For a lot of people (me included) therapy is a healthy way for us to continue onward from trauma and heal.

Wabi-sabi: beauty in the imperfections, the incompleteness, the impermanent.
Nature isn't perfect or complete or permanent. It is a mess of scared ever shift beauty that tells of its Creator. Likewise is the same with us. Tied to this is Kintsugi: golden joinery. It is the act of taking a broken vessel and joining it back together with an adhesive that is then painted with gold, black, or red outer coating making the repaired fractures stand out displaying it's beautifully mared and still full of worth and value. Our mared beauty is within rather than without.

Mottainai: nothing is wasted.
It has been equated to recycling, and usually used for objects believing that everything deserves respect and gratitude. I believe all the more that this applies to each and every human too. Our experience deserve respect, to be processed and worked through. They deserve gratitude, for we can reach others with these hurts that people who've never been in ours shoes can't. The gratitude will come later as healing begins to take hold.

Oubaitori: never compare oneself (with others).
Kaizen: continuous improvement/striving.
These two are very closely linked as I seem them. Oubaitori is about understanding every is different and as each blossom of a tree blooms in its own ordained timing, so does each person grow in their own season and time.
Kaizen is about the continual pursuit of improvement. This can be for a business but is no less applicable to our individual lives.
Always improving without the compromise of comaping oneself to another. A challenge to grow authenticly and to authenticly grow.
You can grow alongside others but cannot be other than you. You cannot grow another nor can another grow you; rather each is individually responsible for their own growth but can sur each other onward from were they were to where they are going/will be. This also being up liminality (for another post).
Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17)

A lot of wisdom to digest here. Living in the past, both good and bad memories, has always been an obstacle for me. Focusing more on the present and what I can control is good advice. The image of repairing a broken vessel is poignant for me and beautifully put. I wonder though, if the repaired vessel can ever hold water again, restoring it to its original purpose, or if it should be used for something entirely new but equally as useful or beautiful. Maybe that's just my desire to return to the way things used to be.

What you said about growth also resonated with me. Sometimes I feel like my emotional (and spiritual?) growth has been stunted, like I haven't changed since I was a kid. It's definitely something I hope to work on.

Thank you for the well-thought-out response.

 

[thePineTreeKid]

A lot of wisdom to digest here. Living in the past, both good and bad memories, has always been an obstacle for me. Focusing more on the present and what I can control is good advice.

We learn from out past, look towards the future while be ever-present to were our feet are. Trauma keeps us trapped, acknowledging it is the first step to overcome the barrier of being stuck and the beginning to learn how to be. Very few people know how to be.

The image of repairing a broken vessel is poignant for me and beautifully put. I wonder though, if the repaired vessel can ever hold water again, restoring it to its original purpose, or if it should be used for something entirely new but equally as useful or beautiful. Maybe that's just my desire to return to the way things used to be

Traditional kintsugi-repaired ware is fully food-safe. However, it is no longer microwave nor oven-safe, and cannot be used over direct heat.
A repaired vessel can never be what it once was, I agree that this is poignant. But it's story doesn't stop there. The beauty comes in it's redemption. It's restoration. It was broken but now made whole. The golden repair tells of the vessel's story it's journey from creation to redemption. The most poignant thing would be the destruction of the vessel when it could be redeemed. The journey to the destination, there is liminality the state for no longer being is what it once was but is not yet what it will be. Moths and butterflies do this in a very physical way to give an example. Humans do this through learning experiences. I was sexually abused; I'm no longer who I once was. I take up the challenge to heal; I'm no longer who I was but I'm also not who I will be when I finish.

There is a time and a season for everything under the sun. A time to change and a time to remain the same. Grieve the change, the loss. That is part of the changing of season. But also welcome the new season as well. The change beings a loss, but it also brings so much more. A thunderstorm destroys and rejuvenates. Often we see one or the other, forgetting that it does both.

What you said about growth also resonated with me. Sometimes I feel like my emotional (and spiritual?) growth has been stunted, like I haven't changed since I was a kid. It's definitely something I hope to work on.

I fully understand. We are wholistic beings. We have physical, emotional, and spiritual parts that work together. When on is affected it influences the rest in different ways.
I'm 27, I joke that some days I'm 8 and others I'm 80. The trauma I went through kept be at 8. I feel like a child a lot of the time. But working through my trauma and doing things that give me something back help trauma me to grow up bit by bit, currently at 11 or 12.
As the trauma heals and that stunted parts begins to grow so will the other parts affected by the stunting.
Therapy does help. It sucks but helps. I think about it as you get brought through the woods and dropped off in the center of it. You have two choices, stay or work your way out of it. I will not be labeled as a victim or a survivor. It will be a part of my story but not my identity. I will live and thrive. I am not who others say/tell me I am, nor am I what past actions (what I've done and what has been done to me) say I am. Yes, I'm a Jesus freak; I am who He says. The pains and joys are just a part of the life.
I wouldn't be able to understand and connect to and love others who've gone through the same thing I did if I never went through it. In this way, no experience is ever wasted. The wise learn from all. If from good the what should be done, if bad than what shouldn't be done. If experienced both, then how to empathize and love with gentleness and truth.

Thank you for the well-thought-out response.

I think a lot. In my head it's a jumble going on all at once. I'm glad to have said something helpful. Yahweh knows that my brain does not stop!

שבת ושלום עליכם (read right to left)
Shabbat washalom aleichem (rest and peace unto you)
thePineTreeKid

 

[GaD3!]

Welcome to MS, I am sorry to hear of your experience. I can not really add anything to the excellent responses that other have posted. I will state my opinion on your question though. No, it was not consensual. This is similar to date rape. You did not verbally say no, but your body language did, loud and clear. He did not care about you, it was all about himself- a narcissistic sack of horse manure. If he were at all a caring individual, he would have asked before he did anything to see what you were comfortable with and continued to check in with you as things progressed.
A very scary situation- all of it. You are wise to avoid sexual interaction at present. I would highly recommend you seek therapy with a T trained in dealing with sexual abuse issues. This was sexual abuse. An erection means nothing concerning enjoying it etc. our bodies are designed to respond to sexual stimulation regardless of where it comes from. Also, during times of fear or extreme stress males often get erections. I truly wish you well. Take care.

 

[Tableau in Stasis]

What you said about growth also resonated with me. Sometimes I feel like my emotional (and spiritual?) growth has been stunted, like I haven't changed since I was a kid. It's definitely something I hope to work on.

I have a spiritually grown for most of my life until about 2 years ago when I acknowledged the abuse and started working on it. And I just had the most profound and real emotional growth and experience in 12+ years (via sadness, so progress but sucky feeling lol) just 2 days ago. Like probably the most progress I've made, and the most I've been in tune with, but not unredeemably overwhelmed by, my emotions, since the abuse and my Dissociative System's formation. So yeah, I get the stunted feeling hah.

Lovingly

~Stasis