www.malesurvivor.org (what is it this may be a rant and may contain triggers for som

www.malesurvivor.org (what is it this may be a rant and may contain triggers for som
M

Mike Church

Registrant
There are many here who do not really believe that that their world can be a better place. Like you I have suffered from the POOR MES. I dwelt in the why me, what if, and if only world and firmly believed that there was little point in trying to become the man I was meant to be because I was a total screw up and was only good for one thing. Someones toy to kick around and abuse and a tool to get his jollies off. What happened to me occurred when I was 16-17? Raped at Military College by three guys over a nine-month period that included lots of violence. As a child I was subjected to physical and verbal abuse as far back as I can remember. Because of some shitty advice from a councilor at 18 I spent 3 years on the street as a male prostitute catering to the more violent sector of the So Called normal male society. There was nothing I did not do for money. I was an alcoholic by then and I became a heroin addict. At 21 I got off the street, cleaned up and at 26 married a wonderful woman. Did it end there? Not at all. I was still a worthless piece of shit and only good for what I talked about earlier. To confirm this I acted out until I was 56 despite being married to the most wonderful woman in the world. Additionally I could not be controlled in a work environment. I could read control into any innocent remark and often did even with my wife and daughter. I am telling you all this to let you know that I have been where many of you are.

What if, if only and why me. Well I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and my background sort of set me up for it. But when I started to feel this way I got the poor mes and that put me on a downward spiral to the point of acting, which confirmed all over again that I was only good for one thing.

It has taken me from 56 to now to realize that I do have worth and that life is worth living to the fullest. I have my health, the love of a beautiful woman and daughter and her family. I always moaned about not having a family. All I had to do was look around but I was blinded by my past and the poor mes.

I have never had cancer or been badly mangled in a car accident. I retire in 4 months and have a tremendous amount of things to look forward to.

I have some really great friends here on MaleSurvivor.

So I ask you all. Look around you. There are others, not necessarily here, who have some really bad problems. Be they blind, deaf, crippled, quadriplegic or whatever. They muddle through. We, as humans are not unique in our pain. I am not trying to minimize it but others have severe problems also.

I am going to name some names now.

The son of FL Rich had severe mental problems and is not with us any more. Rich still is and is moving on into life. Andrei has been to hell and back and at 20 is starting to live life; I mean really live it. VN is starting down the road with a determination that is truly remarkable. Curtis (Member of BOD) has made unbelievable progress. Nathan (our webmaster), has done the same. Little Al had a life that was beyond belief bur is moving forward. Jake, god bless him, with all his problems and illness was moving forward into life, Danny, a MOD is doing the same thing. Lloyd is a pillar of strength to many. Leosha is confronting his demons and is starting to live life, before many of you there was SeaOtter who was given aids by an abuser and he helped others up until the day he died. MarkGreyblue is moving forward into life. Bill 1965 has had a really bad time and here he is living life and a mod to boot. These people have come to mind quickly but I could go on and on with the successes.

READ THEIR STORIES AND ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION. WERE THEY NOW WHERE I AM NOW? READ AS MANY STORIES AS YOU CAN.

What happened to them? It is easy. They made a conscious decision to start to live life the way they were meant to. Did they know what they were getting into? I suspect not because I know I did not. But I tell you that I think they made it for the same reason I did. Life was pretty shitty and there was no way in hell they were going to live that way till the lights go out.

It is not easy. As a matter of fact it is damned hard and there are lots of land mines, bumps and pothole along the road. I know cause I have hit a few of them. Is it worth it? Yes it is. Because even when I hit that pothole the pain is real but different. It made me feel my own pain and made me determined to get on no matter what happened.

Each and every one of you here has taken the first step. You are here. You found us. This is not a place to wallow in the mud but a place to learn, help and have questions answered. It is also a place of infinite support.

This is not a place to cast stones and berate another nor is it a place to start a vicious fight. God knows we have experienced enough of that in our lives.

It is a place that respects the human spirit. A place of safety. A place to not agree without fear of repercussion (as was so often the case in our lives).

There is no room here for belittling or putting someone down. We have had enough of that.

AND FINALLY IT IS NOT A PLACE FOR THOSE WITH A HIDDEN AGENDA OR FOR THOSE THAT COME HERE LOOKING FOR FRESH MEAT SO TO SPEAK. IT IS NOT A PLACE TO CAUSE ANXIETY OR ANGER OR PAIN.

IT IS A SANCTUARY.

Use it as such and become the person you were meant to be.
 
I agree Mike and your words hit home for me. You have posted to a couple of My Rants and I Know I have crossed a line I never thought I would on here and Attacked others. It wasn'y My Intention But that doesn'y excuse the behavior. Thank you for your words and I am trying. I Know it will be better and I know it is worth the struggle. But Yes I am at one of those Bumps along the way.

I feel Like anikan sjywalker in Star wars and I Have a choice to make to serve the Light or dark side of My Own force and the force of the universe. I Don't wan't to become stuck in Bitterness and recentment. So I Choose to Plow through and get to the other side of all this.

Thank you for your words they were in the right place at the right time.
 
Mike, when I see a fight starting or belittling or other behaviour, it really triggers me, I cannot be in that frame of mind, so I tell anyone that they dont fight me, cos they dont win.

I have a strong mind, I lost my childhood at 10yo, and it still hurts to be a diseased kid, and not be quite so right to his peers, but he battled through it, even though it did not seem to be a battle he could win.

I got through all of that, but it sure leaves mental garbage, some guys in here are a tower of strength, and I hope I get to be that someday, but I sure try.

Jake wanted us all to be strong and heal together, and I know some people hurt him, and this was totally unacceptable, and if I see anyone doing this I report it to the mods, but by and large, the site runs pretty good considering.

Peace,

ste
 
It is encouraging to look at where we've been and how far we've come. If I ever think things couldn't get any worse, I only have to look at about 10 years ago. I'm doing fantastic now compared with that.

I always hear these stories about people walking 15 miles through crocodile-infested rivers to get to work and all that. I think the men here would take a crocodile any day of the week. Cancer shows. "Be they blind, deaf, crippled, quadriplegic or whatever", people can see it and understand why life is so difficult. For us, our difficulties are invisible, and what does show just comes across as "crazy" so people go running like they're going to catch it or something. So, Here-Here! for the crocodile evaders. But my heart goes out to these guys even more so. The amazing men who try to live a "normal life" with an invisible, dibilitating injury that most people don't want to hear or talk about.

But even so, it does get better. Just by being here, we're choosing to try. I'm so glad to know this brotherhood of men who, dispite everything against them, choose to try.
 
Mike thank you,
I'm just starting out on this long road of healing once again. As I said earlier in another post I'm hurting real bad but when I read words such as your and others on here it gives me hope again. I know the sane life is out there I have lived it with my wife & kids before.
I am an alcoholic 6 yrs clean, I have fought and over come my demonds (PTSD)of being at war in the Middle East, I have used every illegal drug know and don't anymore for over 20 yrs, I have fought these demonds in my nightmares, during my flashbacks and in my head THEY WILL NOT WIN I HAVE MY LIFE & FAMILY NOW THERESA, CHRISTINA & THOMAS. They were dealing with a child and they couldn't brake me then they sure the hell won't now.
It is along road (scary & dark as hell) but I have people on my side now, people I can count on. I'm crying so much i can barely see the keys.

THANKS TO EVERYONE AND GOD BLESS. Craig I am in till the end.
 
Someone pointed out to me that when we come here for the first time we are scared, confused, and in a lot of pain. I apologize for this. I am quoting now and I truly believe this is relevant to the topic.

Those guys you mention may have made a conscious decision to live life...I know I did too...but sometimes things change and we move back a few steps, and I think that is OK. I think that most everyone that comes here has made a conscious decision to live, but we are all at different places in our recovery. And this is not a straight road from point A to Point B, with Point B being happiness. The road twists and turns and has intersections. Some of us don't have very good maps and sometimes head down the wrong road.

I don't disagree that one can learn from others who are farther down the road, but its not as easy as you imply.

I invite you guys that are in a really bad place to go back and look at the early posts of the old timers, myself included, and you will see ups and downs, successes and failures, self-pity and healing.

I think its perfectly normal to wallow in the mud if you have just started playing the hand that was dealt to you...I think thats perfectly normal (I know I did). Sometimes that part of the process is the part that gets you to make a conscious decision to live your life the way you were meant to.

I say wallow away...and when you are ready to move on from that, there are plenty of guys here to help you along the way.

I agree with this.

What is important to remember is that you should stick around till you reach that decision. Because it does occur believe me.

I do hope that you all adhere to the last 4 paragraphs of my original post.
 
Old timer here.

I will testify to the fact that there are ups and downs, or meandering roads, on the road of recovery (notice I said "of recovery" not "TO recovery"). Overall, however, I am in such a better place than when I joined MS over three years ago. The flashbacks are there, the anxiety is there, but the intensity fades. My wife even commented, when I told her I have been having some tough anxiety lately, that if this is tough anxiety, compared to what I used to go through, this is nothing.

And as my ending tag line puts it, and I truly believe, once you shine the light and look at what has happened to you, and face it, the darkness cannot help but go away.

That said, please do not substitute this forum for the help of a therapist, psychiatrist and meds, if you need them. This is an addititinal resource.

But it is a unique resource, and one that provides what none of those others can provide: the advice and occasional commiseration of those who have been through what we have been through.

Peace, and the best to all of you,
James
 
Mike
I'm a believer that there is a place in every survivors healing for "kick ass" help.

It's easy, and very tempting, to just sit back and let it happen all around us.
If we get locked into the "why me" attitude I think that we can then start to expect the healing to come to us.

That ain't ever going to happen, it's up to us to go and grab it, fight for what is rightfully ours.

The hard part is knowing when to kick your friends ass, and accepting the kicked ass for what it is!

Dave
 
Mikey,

I really appreciated your post and I agree with you 100%.

I am one of the guys who somehow finally broke free (partly) of the "poor me"s and thinks he is on his way to recovery. Six years ago I was in such deep shit that I could hardly bear to leave my house. I went to the University to teach, and that was it. Otherwise I stayed home, watched TV, wandered from room to room, sat in chairs staring at the wall, checked my email 100 times a day, did some gardening, ate, drank, anything to keep from facing the reality of what a mess I was. I actually feared any kind of social contact, but convinced myself that I just had other things to do. In fact, I even prided myself on how other guys were going through the proverbial midlife crisis and I was just fine thanks.

I finally broke free when a few things by way of wakeup calls hit me. I bought a ticket online for a flight from Germany to London and back to Germany, neglecting the fact that I was already in the UK and thus not really in a position to start from Germany! I saw a Tshirt I liked and bought it, took it home, and then say that I had already bought the same shirt previously (no idea when). One day when my wife was away and the kids were at school I fixed myself a sandwich for lunch, went to the table, and saw that I had already prepared my lunch and had gotten up from the table to go do it again. Things like that. Even then, at first I refused to accept that all this was related to my abuse history. I genuinely thought I was developing Alzheimers.

My point is that until these things occurred I simply did not see what was really happening to me or how bad things had become. I did not make a conscious decision to break free; in a way I got bitch slapped by the need to do so.

When I first read your posts on this thread I thought what you were saying was so simplistic. When you tell people "wallow away", for example, I knew what you meant and at some level I agreed, but I thought, what about the guys who don't know they are wallowing? What about those who don't see yet that there is a choice? What if you just don't see you can do it?

But the answer really is as simple as you put it. At some point we just have to decide, Enough! It isn't easy, and God knows I am nowehere near "there" yet. But I have realistic expectations, I know I am not alone, I have a general idea of what I need to do, and I am prepared for the "one step forward two steps back" periods. I also know that the only way I can lose this is to throw it away; it really is up to me. And if I do that, then the bastards who hurt us win again. And that is just not going to happen.

Larry
 
When I read Mike's post I identify in myself lots of things I don't understand. Like for instance, I don't know if I do 'poor me's' or 'acting out' because I don't know yet what that means.

I do know that I have had a lot of damage from being abused by my dad for many years. Because of that damage I expect I'll find out later that I do indeed do some of that stuff I don't know what it is yet.

So this is like a warning and message of hope. Warning that because I've been damaged and do stuff to compensate for or cope with that damage.

I read Mike's post I know 2 things, [1] there is stuff I do which I need to identify and 'work on' in my life (whatever that means?) and [2] that it is thinly possible but possible, that I can make some positive progress towards that place Mike is at where he knows he has made huge progress from where he once was. Also other men have achieved this remarkable transformation from completely spoiled to slightly or lots or sometimes or a bit - better.

So the message gives hope to me though I don't yet understand and confirms that there is understanding to be had and some hope for the future.
 
Mike, I hate it when someone talks about "wallowing in the mud". It strikes fear in my heart. I don't panic exactly, but I do, sort of, I guess. I get a case of the guilts. God knows if anyone has "wallowed" around here it has been me. I saw the mud and I jumped in and I swam around in it. I loved the mud. I had finally found the mud. I knew what the mud was. I wanted to scream, "Look! Look, everybody! This is what was hurting so bad. This is it. This is what happened." And I wanted every part of my body and soul to feel just as much pain as it possibly could. I wanted to scream and I wanted to cry and I wanted to be that little kid again who never was allowed to secream or to cry but had to stand there and not react while any of that shit was going on. Now, like a little kid I wanted to kick and to scream and to bite and to scratch and to hurt. Oh, God, I needed to hurt...finally to hurt.
So, when somebody talks about wallowing, first I start feeling guilty because deep down I know I've been doing that and doing that for too long and I need that "ass kick" to move on. But then I get really mad because I feel like I'm that kid again and I'm not allowed to show any emotion. I have to stand there and take it, while he does those things to me all over again. And damn it, no one can take the right away from me again....ever. "This is my life and you took it from me and I wasn't even allowed to feel anything while you did it."
And I'm trying to get to the bottom of the wallow. I'm not there yet. There's one horrible, horrible thing left and I don't know what it is and I've got to find out. And until then I can't afford to just "move on". If I hadn't found MS, I simply would not exist now. My week-end last year was the first emotion I ever felt, really, and so I can't afford to feel guilty about what I'm feeling now. I'm desperate to keep the emotion flowing. I can't go back to numb or I'll never get out again.
Feel sorry for myself? My adult self? Nah. I'm an old geezer and I can get through anything. I kick him in the ass all the time. My little boy? You bet. That kid survived some amazing things. I cry for him alot. I cry for all our little boys. And I really am going to beat this thing. I know that. But I will fight for my right to wallow...my need to wallow...and I can't put a time limit on that...I can't recover from what happened until I've looked it in the eye and told it to f... off!!!
Do I sound defensive? Guess so,huh? I think bottom line is, I'm scared to death that I'm wallowing, don't want to wallow, don't think I'm wallowing, don't know if I'm wallowing, don't want people to think I'm wallowing, am angry with myself because I give a shit that someone might think I'm wallowing, think I may need to wallow a little while longer, don't want to bore people with my wallowing, and this is absolutely positively the only place in the world that, if you need to wallow and let it all out that you can do that, so it scares me to death if I think someone might ever take this place away from me.
That said, most of the time I'm sure that SA is not my main problem...I think I'm just nuts.
 
After reading the above response, I have decided that it is one part of me yelling at the other part of me. We do that. One of me wants to get on with this process and is tired of waiting around and the other part of me (my t agrees with this)is convinced that there is something more to my SA that I am way too frightened and is way too threatining for me to find out, and that I shouldn't move on until I have faced all my demons. Sorry to subject you to an in house argument, but I'd be interested to know if anyone else is going through the same sort of self-talk. Bobby
 
Bobby you said:
"I can't recover from what happened until I've looked it in the eye and told it to f... off!!!
Do I sound defensive? Guess so,huh? I think bottom line is, I'm scared to death that I'm wallowing, don't want to wallow, don't think I'm wallowing, don't know if I'm wallowing, don't want people to think I'm wallowing, am angry with myself because I give a shit that someone might think I'm wallowing, think I may need to wallow a little while longer, don't want to bore people with my wallowing, and this is absolutely positively the only place in the world that, if you need to wallow and let it all out that you can do that, so it scares me to death if I think someone might ever take this place away from me.
That said, most of the time I'm sure that SA is not my main problem...I think I'm just nuts."

It is ok to wallow and look for help and understanding. That is part of what MS is. We all understand the wallowing shit. There will come a time, and only you know when, that you will say "SCREW IT" I aint wallowing no more. Whether you know it or not you have done that already but when we all start it is on very slipper soil that we walk. I guess it is more like slipping and sliding in the muck, and some times going face forward into it. The difference is we all say W^A$(@&$ and pick ourselves up with support from other and keep moving forward.

Nobody will ever take MS away from any of us. Statement of FACT!!

You crazy!!! No more than I am. I think the whole friggin world is crazy but we have an advantage over others. We know we are and others just dont know and think they are not. And you know what. As a kid we did crazy things. I am still a kid between the ears but I am a kid that is not letting the crap of SA screw up the present. Hope this helps.
 
Bobby, do all the wallowing you need, there is a whole load of hurt there, and venting it is good to do, but it will get a little better each time.

On the issue of the guys who took their own lives,
I think that most of us have been on the brink, even considering it as little kids, as I did, on two occasions.

I stepped back though, and something happened that just made me feel that I had the courage to keep going on, and I gained a lot of strength from that.

So these guys chose exit, a few more have along the way, I think it is appauling the way some guys started bickering about these guys.

A dead man cannot answer back, we need to offer the families help and understanding, not blame the guy, we are not here to judge what they did, and we need to show honour to their kin.

How the hell do we know the mindset of each individual? We do not, and it is up to nobody to judge a dead mans actions, because we simply do not know.

We can never let the perps win, we need to be strong and find a voice and help others get through, and it is never impossible, even when we think it is,

Peace,

ste
 
Thanks, Mike. Sometimes this whole thing starts to swirl around in my head and I don't know which end is up and I just have to sit down and wait for it all to stop swirling...sort of. I think that's one of the hardest parts. If you could just nail the @#$% down and get a good look at it, you could figure out which way to go next. Thanks for taking time for me, Mike...and for caring. Bobby
 
I agree with Bobby and tried to say something like that, although my crocodile analogy was a mess.

I just love reading your posts, Bobby. You say what I'm trying to say, only you put it in the emotional context I'm feeling but am afraid to show. There's one phrase that makes my teeth clamp every time: "Get over it." This site and therapy are the only two places I get any "poor me". What has happened to every man here is so bad, so horrific, that to deny anyone a "poor me" is simply incomprehensible to me. And it's the ages of the men here that get me. Men in their 50's and 60's that have had to live a lifetime without a "poor me" over something that has devestated their lives. Thinking about that hurts my heart. These guys have finally found a haven for emotion here at MS. 60 years worth of emotion crammed into a few months of posts and therapy.

On top of everything, as men, we were built with an alarm that goes off anytime anyone gives us sympathy. We're men! We don't need no stinkin' sympathy because we're tough, we're strong, and we're over it! Yeah, yeah. Give me a break. That's why we're all as damaged as we are. We were supposed to get love and sympathy and protection, but we didn't. Instead we all had families that never gave a single "poor little boy", and they expected us to not show our emotions, to get over it.

I know there are people who don't want to get well. I know a lady who's been doing this way longer than me, but she chooses not to cooperate with any of her therapists or doctors. But the majority, especially here as evidenced by the search for a site like this, are trying really hard. And for the first time in our lives, we've found others who feel like we do and pain as we pain. They struggle with the same obsessions and compulsions and fears that we do.

Wallow, Bobby and everyone else here. I know you don't wallow 24 hours a day, so use this emotional haven to go where you haven't been able to go for all these years. And I don't think anybody wants one, but I'll give you one--Poor Bobby. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. And that goes for every man here. I am so sorry SA happened to you. I am so sorry it was done to me, too. It ruined my life for many years, and I didn't even know what it was that was destroying me. I believe that this is the place where we can show a "poor me" if we can muster up the strength. And for the first time in our lives we hear honest, heartfelt sympathy that validates all those years of repressed feelings. See that we're here for you and we'll all support each other. We do get stronger, and it does get better, but for anyone dropping by this site for the first or even the 100th time, this is the place. Write and feel and ask questions all you are able to. We're here to listen. And yes, we're here to get better.
 
I just wish the magic of having a good dream comes bak to me, and I have those dreams I missed.

ste, is sleepy now and he gets woken up by things so easy, like the dawn birds singing, but it is the way he always was.

I would just love to have a comforting dream, and I hope it is not too far away,

I hope,

ste
 
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