Where did the little boy go?

Where did the little boy go?
T

Trish4850

When my b/f was a kid, he was called Jack, when he graduated from high school, Jack ceased to exist and he called himself by his given name, John. We talked many times about the abuse he endured and hes told me that he should have fought harder to stop it, one of my responses to him was, and still is, that he needs to cut Jack a break, he was just a little kid. Last night, during one of our talks, a version of this scenario was being played out and he told me no, it was Jake who deserved the break, not Jack. Jake was going to be his race car driver name. Hes told me this several times before, during happy conversations and I just assumed that it was a perfectly normal boyhood fantasy.

Last night was the first time that Jake was ever brought up when talking about the abuse. From many of the things Ive read here, disassociation was a necessary tool to survival and I strongly suspect that Jake was Jacks salvation. Jake lived the life of the boy that Jack couldnt be. Jake built race cars, he started his own little landscape business, he was in boy scouts, became an Eagle Scout, he had friends, he made national honor society, and so many more wonderful and difficult things my b/f accomplished - on his own; Jack suffered and so now does John.

I dont know if Im suffering from a case of "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" and Id really like some opinions from those of you who know or have dealt with similar circumstances. I cant help feeling like Ive had a light bulb moment of my own and if I have, how do I relay that information to him to explore with his T.

Any feedback would be really helpful. Thanks.

ROCK ON..........Trish
 
Trish,

Jake was his imaginary friend, he was someone this guy aspired to be.

It is a form of dissociation, and it kept him going to have Jake, who never got hurt.

It is necessary to discuss this with a trained therapist to reunite Jake with him, he also may have other personalities, and from what I have read it is far from impossible.

Jake has to be part of the equation, and it is good that you can talk to him about Jake,

ste
 
i don't know if i agree that jack was imaginary,in my case the little boy who i call shadow was the strong one ,he took all the abuse and pain while adam ,the person i am now hid away somewhere. he was the hero ,i was just a scared kid watching him take it all if that makes any sense ,shadow was stronger then than i am now. in fact it has only been about three years ago that shadow went away and adam took over .the adam i am today hid away for 10 years ,while shadow kept me alive. i think like me your bf created jake not to do all the things you described but to take the abuse so john could survive .that's why he says jake deserved a break because jake took on what john could not .john did all those things ,but jake made it possible for john to do them . just my opinion, jake was his strength ,in reality jake and john are the same person but under extreme conditions we can become split ,john didn't think he had any strength ,but jake was fearless ,my t says i need to reunite shadow and adam to become whole again ,but during my abuse it really seemed like i was two different people,one ,shadow fought like a demon ,the other adam stayed inside my head he couldn't even look at the things shadow was going through . i hope this makes sense it's hard to explain . when i look back now i think damn shadow was one tough kid ,but i don't see that it was me ,fighting and hurting somehow it seems like it was another person .my t say when i can see that shadow and adam were the same person .then i can be reunited with myself .kinda confusing to me . adam
 
Adam,

your T is right, and maybe I shold not have used the term imaginary, it conjurs up all sorts of things.

Shadow kept Adam safe, as he took the abuse, so that Adam would be OK.

It is like my abuse, when part of me just tried to keep the little boy safe, so that ste survived, so I created alters to carry the abuse, and lessen the hurt, and I know it is difficult to understand.

I think Trish is trying to say, that her bf, created an alter called Jake, that was really him without the abuse, and what he would really want to revert back to, and dump the past, and just be the way Jake would want him to be.

I have alters, but they are not so bad, and not so far away, but they need to be sorted out.

Shadow kept you alive, he kept little adam from hurting as much as he should.

I spoke to a T about this not so long ago, and she said, how come you cannot release the past, and I said, because if I did, it would be like losing a best friend.

If shadow is a best friend then keep him, but try and get them together, as he is strong for getting you here.

Little ste, got me thru to where I am today, and I will never let him go, but somehow I need to get to know him better,

ste
 
Trish--

I know that I have had similar moments where a comment from my boyfriend seems particularly illuminating to me-- when you care about someone so much it is easy to get caught up in trying to put together the puzzle.

In my opinion though, it is more supportive to leave that puzzle to the survivor and a better use of my energy to focus on things that are truly within my control.

When I find myself wanting to connect the dots "for" him, I really have to ask myself why-- what I gain (or lose) from that, what he gains (or loses) from that. Why would I feel it necessary to tell him which of his thoughts or experiences are "important?" How can I possibly judge that? Why is it important to *me* that he focus or not focus on a particular issue in his therapy? Why he was sharing with me in the first place?

I have more to say but no time.

SAR
 
Lots of info here. Adam and Ste you may be right in that I have the players reversed, I just don't know and I don't even know that it matters. I just believe that the fact of it does matter.

SAR, I kind of get what your saying. He definately has to do his own healing and "connect the dots" as you say. But if he says something to me that turns a spot light on, should I really ignore it? I would never presume to tell him what to concentrate on with his T, that is 100% between the two of them; I don't even ask and he doesn't tell me, straight out that is.

There's something you said in another post about words that are spoken and words that are heard and how different they can be. He actually told me once that his T told him he'd never get better. I didn't jump up and down screaming about how ridiculous that was, I remembered your words. I looked at him very calmly and said that if she said such a thing, then maybe he needed a different T, but that I think he may have mis-interpreted what she said. He then went on to tell me exactly what she said and even the words leaving his mouth, were not what he heard. We discussed it a bit more and I feel that he understood that he was twisting things to what HE believed, not what she believed and certainly not what I believe.

The point is, if he says something to me and I respond, he may not hear what I'm actually saying, but he may think about it and broach it with his T and, hopefully, she will also see that he needs some clarification. I really try to be very careful not to be his "other" T. I let him talk and give my opinion if asked, but I don't know how, or if I should, let this possible revelation just go by. Does that make sense?

For as much as I learn here, I still feel like I'm bumbling along.

ROCK ON.......Trish
 
Trish,

I wonder if I can add something useful to what Ste and Adam have said. They are talking about dissociation, and so is your partner.

When I was a boy being abused I would "go away" to a corner of the ceiling. I would concentrate on something on the wall, usually a picture or a photo, and use it to "take myself away" from the bed or floor or whatever. I would go through the picture up to the ceiling and curl up in a ball there with my back to what was happening in the room below, which was too terrible for me to look at.

This was all imaginary, as Ste says, but at the time it was very real for me. It enabled me to say that what was happening in the room wasn't really happening to me - I wasn't "there". Adam had a different take on this: Shadow was the strong boy who could take everything that was happening so that Adam could feel safe and keep going. As Ste says, it looks like "Jake" was your partner's version of "Shadow".

SAR asks the useful question of what you can learn from such information, from figuring it out, and from helping your partner to see what was going on. My answer would be this. I think it is useful to you to get the insight this offers into how horrific the experience of abuse is. The kid being molested is so terrified and devastated that he can even invent a surrogate for himself to take the abuse while he projects himself somewhere else to hide (like I thought I could do) or wait for it to end (Adam). It's a desperate step.

I also think it is good for the survivor to understand this as well. We were not wacko or going nuts: we were terrified confused children just trying to survive the next 24 hours in the only ways we knew how. The only resources we had were those of childhood fantasy, and that's what we used.

Much love,
Larry
 
Hey, you guys.

Putting abuse together is not your job, it is up to the professionals, if you can find one.

I liken it to a circuit that is continuously fused, of a mass of emotions spilling all over the place from euphoria to deep grief.

A survivor may not even know the trigger, and can be totally confused by even true love.

The trick is to build trust, but also set your own boundaries so that he does not drain your own resources.

It is a difficult balancing act.

I guess for you guys, it is like a child in summer wanting christmas to be tomorrow.

A difficult analogy, maybe someone can phrase it better,

ste
 
Ste,

I think your analogy of a child in summer wanting Christmas to be tomorrow is pretty damn accurate. Yes, I want it all to be better now, hell I want it all to never have happened at all. For as much as I feel that, my b/f feels it 1000 times more, I know that.

Your also mostly right in that putting the abuse together isn't our "job." But there is a part of us that needs to be there and needs to work stuff out. Not just for him, mostly for us. Sometimes we need to do nothing other than to be there for him and other times to talk, if that's what our partner wants, other times to say, hey, I know you're hurting, but that behavior is not acceptable. I'm learning how to deal with those things and bring them to his attention. Why? because for my survival and the survival of our relationship, I have to. His T can't tell him the everyday things that I see that don't work or the ones that do for that matter. He may not, and actually probably doesn't, tell her everything; I see him and talk to him daily; she sees him once a week. I see the things that need to be addressed, that have to do with US. How awful would it be if I just turned a blind eye and said talk to the professional, not me. That would sound the tolling of the bells for he and I quicker than anything else I can think of.

In the moments when he wants to talk and the man I love is hurting and crying so badly that he can't breathe and he wants to tell me things, even things I don't need or want to know, I can not and will not turn from that. I do see that as my job; not one I do for anything except love for my guy.

I'm in this up to my neck, but keeping my head above water.

ROCK ON.........Trish
 
Trish,

I never meant to leave it all to the professionals, of course you both need to also get through this together.

There is a great movie to see which can touch the subject, and it is a true story, hire it out.

It is called Antwone Fisher, and it is a true story with the screenplay done by Antwone.

The thing to look out for, is dont smother or protect him, he will see it as so negative, or at least I do, and I have seen the damage that it can cause.

Give him space when he asks, but do not let him ever walk over you, I am sorry but that is the only way I can think right now.

A survivor can feel so inadequate in life, because his mind will constantly go back to when he could not fend off abuse.

As I said in another thread, it is not the abuse that causes the problems, it is all of the emotional difficulties that it brings into everyday life.

If they were not addressed at source, then they cause accumulative difficulties to surface in adult life.

If you have an accident in life, at least you can talk your feelings thru with friends.

It becomes far more difficult to explain the trauma of not being able to get help, and working things out in your own mind with nobody to turn to.

Let him talk when he can, hold him when he is having trouble breathing, I guess we all know that one.

If he finds he can talk to you from his boy mind, then feel fine to tell him it is safe now.

If he feels safe with his emotions with you, then you have a life friend,

ste
 
Thank you Ste. I sometimes feel so inadequate to deal with the mess I find myself in, so I have to run alot on my instinct and alot on the advice I get here. You're definately a big help.

If he finds he can talk to you from his boy mind, then feel fine to tell him it is safe now.
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These are beautiful words, Ste. Sometimes, the boy does talk to me, and I comfort him, because he is a huge part of the man I love. I cherish the boy and will keep him safe now.

ROCK ON.......Trish
 
Trish,

it is nice to help also.
It is always a tangled mess to the women to unravel, I wish you well,

ste
 
Trish--

What I was saying is what you said here:

But there is a part of us that needs to be there and needs to work stuff out. Not just for him, mostly for us.
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Right. It is for you. It is important to stay honest with yourself about that and not to use "helping him" or "what he needs" as a way to justify crossing his boundaries or trying to heal for him. I see a lot of partners do this and I think we all need to be careful about it.

I think some partners are afraid of seeming insensitive or selfish-- or maybe just not used to having their needs met in the relationship-- so they feel compelled to make it about the survivor and what's best for him. It is totally valid for you to want to address an issue with him because of your own emotional needs... it is up to the two of you to be honest and negotiate when your needs conflict-- but it gets messy and sometimes emotionally abusive when people try to get their own needs met by convincing someone else that it is in his best interest to do so.

If there is a partner who is NOT guilty of thinking/acting with these justifications at times, I haven't met him/her yet. The point is not to be perfect and have no needs. The point is to be honest about what's at stake for us without making it be "should I do X for him."

I see it a lot on these forums when it comes to anger at the perp. A lot of partners get angry and need to feel validated or allied with the survivor so they make strong arguments about why the survivor ought to be just as angry at the perp, "for his healing". They feel left out or afraid that the survivor is minimizing the abuse when he's not that angry and this translates into a more "acceptable" fear that he's stuck in healing and needs a push. Maybe she is a survivor herself and feels insecure about her own healing when her partner chooses a different path.

What that person needs to hear is that her anger is valid and she is entitled to it, even if what the survivor feels now is very different... and that there may be several important reasons why the survivor isn't in a place to be so angry. It doesn't mean he isn't going to heal.

Or when we say we will listen to all of the terrible stuff because it is what he needs-- sure-- that's true-- we are responding to his need, doing that "for him"-- but at least for me, there is something affirming and important that happens FOR ME after those conversations. I know that I am trusted. It validates our relationship and helps me feel important.

AND IT DOES NOT MEAN that I am meeting his need any less because my needs are also met. The idea that in order for someone to meet your need, they must do it without regard for what is good for them-- IS ABUSIVE.

All I am saying is that partners owe it to themselves and the survivors in their lives to "measure twice" when it comes to our motivations for getting involved with someone else's healing.

Every situation is different. I can't answer the questions I asked you in my other post about why it might be important to YOU to have this "lightbulb moment" and/or to share it with him. But I think they are worthwhile questions.
 
Trish
I think it's both impossible and bad for John if you turn a blind eye to incidents such as this. If he brings it up then I would think he's either ready to talk about it or testing the water. You can always back off if talking about it seems too painful or counterproductive, trust your instincts a bit.

Dissociation is a tool many of us used, and I certainly used it to construct a more glamarous and safer alternative life as a boy. Like John I wanted to be a race car driver, and it was only in middle age that I came close to fullfilling that dream when I started driving in off road competitions. That was a great turning point for me when I discovered that I could actually do some of the things I dreamt of.
Has John fullfilled any of Jakes dreams? If not, it might be worth resurecting those dreams in some way and show him that they were possible all along. He might not be the next Schumaker, but inspiring his interest in racing again might well provide a feeling of self worth and belonging to 'normal' society. John might find Jake once again, and they can help rescue each other.

Dissociation is, as we all seem to agree, a tool that kept us alive and relativly sane, so it's not something that I would actually discourage if an adult still uses it, although I would also stress that as adults we seem to use it differently, and I for one allowed it to become so overwhelming that it led to me fullfilling the 'dream' and acting out sexually. Not a good thing!

I still do it though, and have done so a lot recently due to the pressure of dealing with my ageing parents.
I said to my wife last night that I felt as though I'd swopped one sort of guilt for another - the guilt that I felt over my abuse for the guilt of placing my mother in a care home. And the tool I've used most to escape, because escape is what I'm doing, is dissociation.

Most of it has been harmless stuff, and some has been sexual fantasy that I'd rather do without. But one thing I know for certain is that the sexual stuff is under control and will never lead to acting out again. So I accept the dissociation for what it is, a coping mechanism that I can use to escape the huge pressures that I'm under at the moment.

I've found it interesting in a way to return to this tool at this point in life, because now I can appreciate how I escaped from my abuse at the time it was going on. I also see how it got out of control a few years ago.

I don't think we should always discount the tools that got us through the crap as some people try to do, we should instead learnt to modify them and make them work for US.

Dave
 
I just hope your BF is doing better trish, sounds like things are being brought up at least.
 
SAR,

You're so right on so many levels. As I try to figure this stuff out, I'm also learning that I do need to watch out for me. Sometimes that means taking a step back and I'm learning to be OK with that. I'm pretty important to me ;) and alot of other people, my b/f included.

I've decided to put my "lightbulb moment" away for now. If he brings it up again, I won't be blindsided by the revelation and maybe I'll find a way to talk to him about it, but I won't just bring it up cold.

We spoke again last night, Friday seems to be pretty consistent now, and mostly what we talked about was us. Yes, the abuse came into it, but it was about how the abuse has affected us as a couple. He's so F'd up in the way he thinks. In one breath he said he doesn't want me to have to deal with HIS problem at all because it doesn't affect us and then in the next, he says its F'd up everything, including us.

I know he trusts me more than he's ever trusted anyone, but he's still waiting for other shoe to drop. I said that to him last night and he was so hurt, not because my words were untrue, but because he didn't want me to know that. I assured him that it was OK, I would wait for the day that he realized that both shoes were planted firmly on the ground. He's terrified that the day will never come so I asked him to try, really hard, to not look a the whole because it was too overwhelming. Just look at the little things. The fact that he doesn't flinch anymore when I touch his face, that if he hears or sees something when we're out, he turns to me and holds on, knowing that even if I don't know what happened, I'll hold on just as tight and for as long as he wants me to, and a couple of other little things that taken all together mean a great deal. He won't let himself believe that these little things make a difference, but he said he would try. I can't ask for more than that.


ROCK ON........Trish
 
Trish,

I have been trying these days to deal with a pretty bad revelation from my own abuse history, and I thought of something over this weekend that helped me a lot and might be useful to you as well.

You are looking at your partner as a survivor and trying to make sense of what is happening. That is a natural thing to do, and in fact where else would you possibly start?

The problem here is that there is so much about survivors that doesn't yield to "sense" or "logic". What hit me this weekend was this one: What is "logical" about the molestation of little children in the first place? Surely nothing that I can see. And as a survivor myself I have so often asked myself: Why am I doing this? It doesn't make sense!" But of course it doesn't. What was done to me was viciously criminal and insanely wrong. My response was then - and to a large part still is now - pure emotion. A kid thinks he has the world figured out, at least in so far as he needs to do that to have his childish desires and needs met. Then abuse comes and everything is turned on its head. Nothing makes sense anymore. I think I see that in spades when you said this:

He won't let himself believe that these little things make a difference, but he said he would try.
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This is him trying to cope with the "senselessness" of a lot of what he feels.

I am acutely aware that this doesn't help you figure out an effective response! But perhaps it will help you to understand the erratic way your partner is thinking and behaving and ease your sense of frustration.

Much love,
Larry
 
Trish,

imagine having a problem and being able to sort it out, it is a complex one, but you get help to work out the best way to tackle it.

Now imagine you have a problem that you dare not talk about through fear or humiliation, worse still denial.

Then imagine the problem that lifts its head every day of your life, and gets more complex as it goes on, then you realise that you are only a child.

Kids have enough probs without CSA as well, so I guess this is where he is at today, and I am not saying it is impossible to get over, because it is not.

If I met you in the street, you would never think that I had the same problems as I am so good at masking them, but should not have to.

If you took a fancy to me, I would probably dismiss it, because I would not want to share such a burden with you.

This is how immense it gets, then we all have our own life stresses also, I have not worked for almost a year, but the stress of doing so would not be good for me.

I find it hard to find therapy in this so called first World Country, whats new, it just goes on and on, and I have been trying to get help for three years.

As long as you can give him a feeling of safety, he will open out for you, when he wants. It is a slow difficult process, I guess it may be worth it,

ste
 
You guys are so awesome and as always, you've given me even more things to think about, in a healthy, constructive way. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Dave, I've actually thought of buying him one of those ride in a racecar things - maybe up at Pocono Raceway, but at 6'5" 225lbs, I don't think the man would fit into a NASCAR. Every now and again, I know he fantasizes of being Dale Earnhardt smashing Jeff Gordon in to the wall :D ; nothing makes his Sunday more complete than a Gordon wreck. Thank goodness the season starts again in a few weeks. And of course, like every good boy, he'll run the truck through the biggest puddle he can find, spin the tires in the snow or just throw it into a safe skid if it's icy. I never will understand men, so I just hold on and shake my head! ;)

ROCK ON......Trish
 
Trish
ahhh, another petrol head!
I caught the bug long before my abuse started, and it's never gone away.

I just love driving and modifying motors, and in a way it's been the one constant thing in my life that I've been in control of.

I drive way too fast, I can get my wifes Subaru in a four wheel drift and feel 'in control' ( please don't tell her though ! :D ) or I can drive my competition 4x4 over terrain that would terrify most people. I ( nearly ) always feel in perfect control.

That's something I very rarely felt in my life up until recently, the things you describe your boyfriend feeling are just how I felt.
The emotions of someone loving me, trusting me and caring for me were still alien after 25 years of marriage, I didn't know how to deal with them or reciprocate them. And that was down to me not trusting myself to allow these emotions in.

I could trust myself enough to drive off the edge of a quarry or along the side of a hill that would more than likely roll me over, but that was a trust in something that I had 100% control over. Other people I didn't, unfortunately.

I started driving in off road competitions about 10 years ago, and have done a bit of rally driving many years ago, both before I disclosed and started therapy and healing. At one point though I nearly stopped, I was depressed and thougfht that I needed to concentrate on my healing.
I'm so glad I carried on though.

By doing so I reinforced my self esteem, I made the effort to mix with people who at that time knew nothing about my past or present troubles. For competition day I was 'just another lunatic in a 4x4'. And that was a terrific feeling, win or lose ( lose mainly :rolleyes: ) I was a part of something and made welcome by people who I eventually realised liked me ( or not ) for who I am.

I'm a huge advocate of getting out and doing 'something' that allows ua both an escape and the chance mix with others, and that can be anything from volunteering in a charity shop to joining a chess club.
Ask a survivor waht they most desire and they will almost always say something like "to be normal"
I'm not going to argue about what's 'normal', but mixing with other people in a natural way has to be high on the list?

If your guy won't fit in a NASCAR then maybe try an extreme off road experience, and I'll take the NASCAR ride :D

Dave
 
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