When to divorce?

[30something]

I'm not sure which forum is right for this: How do I know when it's time to seek a divorce from my wife?

She has supported me in many ways, including financial, while I lost my immediate family to a personal decision. She is a high-profile exec (which puts us on unequal footing outside the home) but she also runs the house like a dictator 95% of the time. It's walking on egg shells. Every day. Just like in my parents' house when I "grew up."

We agreed early on that kids weren't in the cards for us as a couple. I could go either way. I sensed right away she'd brutalize our children emotionally and physically. On one of our first dates she shared how her dad beat her up regularly but that she understood why. That was his way of helping her with homework... tough love is what it takes for someone to live up to your standards. My dad took me out with sports equipment, but at least I knew that's wrong... she just accepted that bigger people get to hurt smaller ones. Her house was about as nutty as mine was growing up. I guess we silently connected around that. It was like her casually sharing her abuse stories was a test for me as a potential mate. Her coldness bothered me, but showing it would've meant I wasn't man enough. So I didn't then.

In our time together, I've had therapy and support from friends and from you all here. My wife doesn't believe in therapy or "blaming our parents for our issues." Now I'm a different (healed and healing) human and she's... pretty much the same since the day we met. I didn't intend for us to grow apart. The ME OF TODAY wouldn't in a million years go out with, much less marry, my wife today.

This weekend was a good one. We got along, she wasn't mad about anything. She said she wasn't going to be stressed about work. It felt like a vacation! We've talked about her de-stressing, taking time away, etc. but that's not possible with her job. I know SHE is responsible for managing how SHE treats people. I guess I see glimpses of how she can be/wants to be (easy going, peaceful, joyous) which always reels me back in just when I'm ready to ask for separation. But she's done some awful things that are probably unforgivable (one particular thing my mom did, years ago, which re-opened that issue for me).

I don't feel like my wife is "safe" any more. That was the one thing I asked of her when we were young: emotional stability. That was the only ask. A stable home life.

Sometimes, I think my wife is focused on what she can afford to buy us in order to excuse her bad behavior. She says she won't see me as an equal partner in our marriage until I'm making the big bucks again.

I'm starting back in the corporate world in January. She's not all bad, and it's the good that I try to focus on. Friends say I'm too patient and understanding, and most would've walked a long time ago. I like how strong my wife is. Wish I could partner with the bad ass, not the asshole version. And hey, we don't have kids. Should I move on like a man?

Thanks for advice and for reading this far. This is my first marriage. Divorce is not something I want, unless I have to save myself.

Asa

 

[Cave Dweller]

.

 

[Ceremony]

The corporate world eh? It's elluded me, I haven't the personality nor features to engage at that level. I guess I'll segue to being the submissive and passive aggressive partner in a 33 year failed marriage.

I can relate to rejection of couples or her having therapy, and how my wife rejects all of my years of employment as having any good contribution to our family. That's not how you stated it, but my bias goes right to those two.

I tried to go through with divorce about 10 years ago. I failed. I got the money, I had the lawyer do the initial filing... and my wife refused to open the door to get those papers. She promised couples counseling and I acquiesced for another 10 or so years. Now, I'm in this therapy, and I see it differently. My survival is on the line. It would have been far better to see this 33 years ago, even 36 years ago, and I would have had a chance, at least some chance. Alas, what ifs take me down the wrong road.

I am now in the house we share, separate. Not together, mostly I'm told what to do, though I assert that I have my own plan toward all she demands. She runs this like a dictator, no input allowed, just listen and submit. It's bristling and confrontational at every turn, every day. I have no recourse, I must eventually leave to survive and it breaks me... a very long story.

I do not have the demeanor to state unequivocally, that there are definite signs to move on... my story is the best example of anyone's reason to leave a spouse, but I don't see enough of yours here or elsewhere and we've not chatted or messaged. This is a decision for long discussions with a great therapist when it's myself, and how could I separate that from my response to you? I read you've had therapy, and assume this came up enough, so what's the therapist think?

What's your gut tell you? I too wonder if you're living separate lives? That's mostly the dynamic I have... there's no means to coalesce back toward a relationship with my wife, and you're at that point?

I don't like that she puts money up as you describe... that when you are earning at potential, you're equals. That's nonsense with a relationship ideal that I aspire. Is that valid, I'm truly unsure, but, there appear to be examples all around, and I've been noting them.

Without couples counseling, staying together seems unimaginable.

 

[AuthenticMe]

Hi 30something,

I don't have an answer for your opening question about when divorce is the best choice, but I don't think earnings should be tied to respect (or love, or sex, or power) in any marriage. There are so many ways to contribute to a relationship, money being only one.

 

[Chris4TheMill]

30something,

Sorry that you are going through this. I know and have known other guys who are in these types of marriages and worse. There are no easy answers.

I totally get what you are saying about "The me of today wouldn't in a million years go out with, much less marry, my wife today." When we are in different places emotionally, maturity-wise, etc. we tend to look for different things in a mate. I know I did too when I was your age.

Sadly, as men we are not usually taught to look for character in a partner. Instead we focus on other external stuff.

I totally agree with Lome, though - if someone has to check items off on a list before they will respect us - like how much $ we make, how tall we are, how big certain body parts are, etc. - that's a bad sign. Match.com is filled with women who have those lists, it's depressing.

My question for you at this point would be, does your wife want to keep the marriage going? Does she even know you are thinking about separation or divorce?

Has it ever come up? If not, I do recommend blindsiding her. If you feel like you cannot talk to her directly and if she will not go to a counselor with you, you might want to go to one on your own to help you sort things out.

- Chris

 

[KMCINVA]

Asa

Divorce is a personal issue and you must reconcile what is right for you. I can tell you one thing, in order to heal you need love, support and not being told your abuse was not real or questioning. I have been through divorce and I can tell the marriage for many years was contributing to my downfall and how I reacted hurt not only me but the family. At the same time their stance of denying the abuse, spitting on me, locking me in a room etc and pretending these words and actions do not effect a survivor only contributed to my spiral downward, raised the level of dissociation, my sense the abuse was better then staying in the present with their abuse and abandonment, PTSD, thoughts and sadly attempt with suicide. Sad what the lack of love and support can do to a survivor who is struggling. I can go on with their treatment and yes, what may or may not have happened as I was unraveling hurt them. But try to talking with them about dissociation, the abuse, PTSD and the response is the same, they are not real. They know everything about abuse and denial is the quickest way to hide their ignorance and inability to face the truth. It sounds like you are in a very difficult and controlling place, and this is not good for someone trying to heal.

Is your wife willing to seek therapy, talk about the issues, relinquish control (and I bet she says you are the controlling one). You need to be free of burdens to heal.

I cannot tell you what is right for you but I can tell you for me the divorce should have happened years before it did--I would wake to nightmares and I would be made fun of and never asked what was troubling me, or when syncope began--and the doctors relate it to the trauma of the abuse-I was abandoned by the one who should have been there for me and the children. I cannot change the past, the ex has many wonderful qualities but her ability to put husband and children before parents and siblings was her issue and struggle.

I am in a better place, surrounded by loving people. Last week I had the misfortune of being with one of my children--one who thinks he knows everything but truly knows little about peoples issues and troubles while he has many and his mother has told him--so he now does not speak with her. He set me off into a dissociative state as the family has done for many years and they believe triggers are not real or harmful to a survivor. I hope he gets help but I need to stay away from people who have this sense of controlling and knowing everything--for they truly are hiding and running from their issues.

Asa, I tell you my story because being in a situation that is not loving and supportive will not yield healing or happiness. My living environment negated any healing and pushed me toward the sense death was better than living--fortunately I met the right people who were compassionate and loving. You need to ask yourself are you healing and happy. I hope you find the answer and you can live a life you deserve.

Kevin

 

[30something]

Kevin, Chris, Authentic, Ceremony, Cave Dweller... THANK YOU for your thought-provoking replies.

Cave Dweller, to answer your question, it still feels to me we're sharing in a relationship but I can see next year, especially if we're on different work travel schedules, we might be sharing space instead like roommates instead of spouses. I guess since I can see that possibility, I should pro-actively avoid that. I gotta find some way, because she's resistant to marriage counseling (she doesn't have time, it doesn't work in her op, etc.).

AuthenticMe: thank you. I doubt myself every day. Some part of me says, I knew she had high financial expectations... I made my bed, now I lie in it (not happily).

I want to think through my other responses and will update when I'm ready. Thank you all!

Asa

 

[AuthenticMe]

Glad to help in anyway I can.

Lome

 

[house]

First I need to say I'm not married but have been with my girlfriend many years and we live together. Its a horrible situation and I would leave if I had the ability. No relationship should be treated like a business we all want to be unconditionally loved. There is nothing wrong with having shared goals but life does not always work out the way we think and we need to adjust. I hate being made to feel like a failure or that my girlfriend is doing me a favor for staying with me which she then uses that power to dominate me, abuse me. Life is too short, the old me before I was injured would never put up with it. I'm gone as soon as I can. Each day I stay I lose a like more respect for myself and that is no way to live. Best of luck to you I hope everything works out for you.

 

[TJ jeff]

your line of "walking on egg shells" screamed off the page at me - that is exactly how it was for me growing up and is how it has been for the past 10 since marrying a wife who hid lifelong depression and borderline suicidal tendencies from me until after we where married

I'm not sure I have any great advice - but I surely know your struggle

at the end of the day only you can decide what is best for you

I know that even though the struggle is great for me at times - there has also been great happiness - 15+ years ago I'd have never even guessed that I'd ever be married - never would have guessed that I'd have a kid - and we do have good moments together

I think it's sad that she won't go to counseling with you (at least my wife "would" - if only I had the money to afford being able to go (she doesn't work - she's raising our daughter))

I don't think that "earnings" should have anything to do with another being on the same "level" as anyone else - in my years I have been privileged to know some people with nothing but the shirt on their backs but they were truly incredible people if you took the time to get to know them on a personal level

you said that this last weekend was a good one - did she see it that way as well? - if she did then I would do everything in my power to help her to see the differences in that weekend as compared to the bad times

money doesn't buy love - somehow she needs to see that

somehow she needs to see the dysfunction of the house in which she grew up in as NOT being ok to continue on into her life of today

wish I had answers for you in those somehows - but I do understand the struggle

 

[30something]

House, I feel for you and hope you can keep your chin up until you recover. Your freedom/moving out is something to look forward to. Don't forget that, brother. You deserve it.

Also thank you TJ for understanding the struggle. You have good points. She and I just had another good morning today, when our pets were sick and we tag teamed the solution. I'll talk with her tonight and gently connect the dots between her being calm and us being happy as a couple. Btw yesterday was Mental Health Awareness Day, and I saw friends on Facebook post their reflections on their journeys which seemed to help them. Is your wife able to find healing through reflection? I hope this isn't too naïve/stupid a question. It is good she's open to therapy (when affordable).

Asa