When should one give up? - (sry long story)

[Sunflower]

Hi,

I am writing to you from a place of distress and sadness. How long should you wait? Is there any hope or am I just fooling my self?

Two years ago I met the love of my life. We instantly hit it off and the first few months were magic. Then one night he opened up and shared his past. He had been violated by an uncle several times as a child. I was the first partner he told and I took it as a token of love and trust. Then the problems began, after the disclosure he had difficulties having sexual interactions with me. I tried so hard to "help" but he was not able to communicate that my behavior only pushed him away and he accused me of being sexually aggressive. Then the tension increased, the discussions began, he pushed me away when I needed him the most (seriously ill) he couldnt support me. During all this he also lost a job and had high levels of anxiety.

Despite all this I could see and feel that he loved me. He always wanted to be close, he called for me at night if i left the bed, loving texts and gestures during the day. But very mixed signals. Do any of you recognise this? I never turned my back on him. I was always there for him, I comforted and helped him with his anxiety attacks, I never pushed but I stod by his side when he needed me. Maybe I did to much? It was always on his terms, his needs, his wants. He accused me of being to nice, that I always did nice things. It was as if he wanted me to behave badly, to act out and to hurt him.

A few months later it came to a meltdown. He sexually assaulted me acting out in the same behavior as his uncle - and he was not aware of this. I had to tell him as he just dissociated out of it. Six weeks later it was over. He broke up with me, said he couldn't be in a relationship, he needed to be on his own. At the same time his tears were running down his face and he looked totally heartbroken. He said he could not give me what I needed (not that he ever asked!).

I was heartbroken, we did not have contact for about a couple of months then we slowly reconnected. Small texts, e-mail. We started hanging out - merely as friends. He confided in me, said he loved me (in the same way he said he loved all his exes.. ) and that he wanted me as a friend. This last year has been this weird as we both realised "we are more than friends but we are not romantically involved".

I have been honest in all this with him. He knows that I love him, he knows that I have not moved on. He is not dating, he is not seeing other women. This summer he even suggested that we should go away on vacation - but he didnt manage to commit and book any tickets. In the end I took off on my own and we did not have any contact and I felt so relived! A lot of my anxiety went away and I started to feel strong. When I came back I broke it off with him. Then it all started over again, small texts, him being worried about me, calling, e-mailing.

Now it has been two weeks and I have clearly told him that he needs to work on his boundries, that we should not have any contact and that I need to move on.

My heart is giving me another message. I think of him, I miss his company, his funny wonderful way of thinking and making me laugh. When I am with him I feel so safe, secure and happy. When I am not I am sad and miserable.

Have I done the wrong thing here? Should I wait and be "platonic" friends? He has for the last year said he wanted to recommence therapy, to work on his issues but there has always been an excuse not to (his job, his grown kids,etc..). I think that what I have waited for was for him to deal with his issues and with professional help be with me in a committed partnership. I sort of realised that this may not happen.

I love him very much, I am afraid that if I remain his "platonic" friend, I will put my life on hold and that he one day will find someone that he will be romanticlly involed with.So difficult. I can not share this with any of my friends as I have promised to keep his secret. They are puzzled. So I reach out to you, the ones that have experienced what I have. Family and friends, but I also reach out to you survivors. What would you recommend me to do. Wait or move on? Is there any hope here or will I be waiting in vain?

Sorry for the long text but I am a bit lost here... would really appreciate your input.

Sunflower

 

[HealingHope]

Hello Sunflower
Thank you for sharing this, I’m so sorry for your pain. I relate to the emotional conflict you feel for your survivor... loving him, feeling so connected and confused as to why it’s impossible to move on. For me like some invisible thread that keeps me connected.

My survivor and I were in a relationship for many years. He’d disappear without warning and reconnect months later. This is our pattern I’ve come to realise. Each time he reconnects it has always been after a period of abuse and I’ve come to understand that his time away is part of his formula as such.
This time around though he’s been gone 2 years. Not a word but just before he stopped communicating something huge happened which I believe took the lid off all his abuse history. I know in my heart he loves me. So here I am waiting, hoping and loving this man.
I’ve had some big wobbles this year believe me, because it’s the longest time apart. The support I’ve received here has been incredible. It’s kept me true to my heart. Hope some of this helps? I know the pain and confusion you’re feeling so well. I’ve agonised over what does this all mean, what is this connection, what is the piece I’m missing, why does he push me away, was it my fault... I've realised it all comes down to love. Whether plutonic or spending the rest of my life with him. Love is love. I go round and round in circles searching for answers but I always come back to my love for him and know that’s why I can’t let go. We haven’t finished what we started, haven’t finished learning and haven’t finished growing. Blessings HH

 

[Ceremony]

Hi Sunflower, and HH, I'm one who gets both sides, in my way.

I'm in an awful marriage, going on 33 years, most of it pain and dysfunction. I can't do anything right, and I get very confused about what it is that I've done wrong... as she talks at me over and over and over about the same thing, reviewing how bad I have behaved?

But, no hitting, no assaulting, no my attacks, but, I did not become self sufficient financially, and I'm a parasite. I am a disaster toward success, only three times for stretches of 1yr, 8 yrs and 5 yrs have I made enough to make ends meet. She has always made the grade, always provided, always stepped up. I have broken down... until this year. Last year I discovered the true reason I've been so broken. I was raped age 16, and molested between 12-13 by two slightly older boys taking advantage of me. Who knows what was going on with the boys, I was clueless and never consented. I just let it happen, totally clueless. Then at 16 I was raped.

That's has seemed tame to me, when I read others stories, but that comparing did nothing constructive. Bullying came up too, and I discovered that horror. I discovered the problems of parental neglect, and then, I think I've that's all I have to work on... whew, lucky that... wry smile, I'm not serious, just lightening the mood, if that worked?

I see how a very tough relationship, though starting with love, can turn. I have lived it far too long, so I have no idea about boundaries and what it takes to stand up for oneself to take charge of the direction of my life. I've been a people pleaser, I placate but, I can yell back when attacked. I want/ed love, respect, compassion, to find myself and give of the love in my soul, and have been denied it all since about the first month of marriage. I didn't see it coming! I was taken completely by surprise! She's been a tormentor, not a partner. She blames me, I blame her. Lose/lose.

Kids. That's why we're together. I want to protect our youngest, now 13 from her, and he's shown every indication of needing it. When I consider our daughter, guilt wracks me deeply. I isolated and ran away from the conflict my wife incites daily, so my daughter went off to her friends constantly, and I was barely sane to help her.

It's a process, we have so much buried, so much going on that can be triggered when the trauma is buried, and unrecognized. Then, when it's too late, and months, years or decades have gone by, and too much damage has ruined the relationship, there's no hope. All hope is gone. To me, I live separately, in the same house, with my tormentor. She will say, I'm a parasite using her.

It's very difficult to endure this, to heal, she's a burden I don't deserve. I deserve the love and compassion I read in your post, in HH and others. I read some men here have very satisfying and loving partners.

Perhaps, I've been too parasitical, not providing a stable income, being useless to her in her demands? My intentions were not to debase the marriage. I'm sorry I have discovered my trauma damage too late. I'm sad, I cry, I still despair, and it hurts so badly I break inside.

 

[KMCINVA]

I believe it is not giving up but as HH said moving on. One needs to move on in order for themselves to find peace and happiness. Holding on is not helpful to either party. I as a survivor had to move on to escape the words and actions of a family that could not accept nor comprehend trauma and CSA. Instead they hide behind their false facade thinking what I did or did not do during periods of dissociation and PTSD episodes have no relationship to trauma or abuse. They were killing me, so many said ignore, disown, stay away from them for they are vengeful and lack empathy and compassion. I did not listen and further damage was done and I am struggling to regain my life. Thankfully many have rallied behind me. You are holding on and in ways it is robbing you of life, you have outstanding compassion and empathy for the survivors but you too need to survive and thrive. I do hope you know you have reached out and supported your survivor but now it is up to the survivor. I wish when I first came forward with the CSA I had someone like you in my life--because it would have helped me to heal. I still think of the ex's words, when are we getting the money and sadly the children believe these words are good and fail to see they were destructive. Doctors and experts have said their reaction and treatment so many behavioral and psychological issues. I do not dispute but you too need to seek therapy to help yourself move on.You can be at a distance with your survivor but find happiness for yourself. You can tell your survivors, from a fellow survivor I wish I had someone like you in my life when I began to face the abuse. They now need to help themselves.

Kevin

 

[HealingHope]

I just wanted to comment on your thoughts here, Kevin because you've helped me see that I have moved on too in some ways. I've come to terms with my survivors absence, understanding that he needs this and with his absence I have worked on myself and gained from understanding myself far better, especially how I was adding pressure on him, perhaps.

Time and space hasn't changed a thing in terms of my love for him but its crystalised why I do. I haven't let go of him, I've let go of what I can't control, if that makes sense.

Sunflower, I've had some wonderful insights from survivors to many of my questions over past 2 years, and every survivor has said, space, time, patience and hope.
My survivor and I had hopes to be together but life and many complications stopped that from happening. I've come to terms with that but I'll always be there for him in a heart beat to listen, be still, alongside, laugh ..and cry as friends, lovers or whatever.
Time will tell.
I find myself reflecting on you last question, "will I be waiting in vain?" I suppose it comes down to what you believe you are waiting for? That's the bit that I've come to terms with. My survivor always said he had nothing to offer me, he believed he wasn't worthy of us/ me... thing is I'm not predicting anything, maybe at first before I understood CSA but now? ...I'm just here for when he needs a place to be and trust in that.
Hope I've not rambled on too much.
HH

 

[Sunflower]

Dear HH,

Thanks for your kind reply. The invisible thread that keeps us connected... I recognise that. It is strong and its hard to let go. I cant even begin to imagine the feelings you must have when he leaves. And he has a pattern, he returns. I hope he will return to you soon. You are worth it. Hope you are ok, and again. Thank you.

Take care, be kind
Sunflower

 

[Sunflower]

Dear Ceremony,

I cried when I read your reply. No one should ever experience what you did, ever. I feel so sorry for you. Would it not be possible for you to seek therapy? To regain strength and to address your homesituation?

Be kind
Sunflower

 

[Sunflower]

Dear Kevin,

Thank you for your kind word. Is there anything as being too compassionate? Maybe I am too kind? For him. Because hanging around being his "friend" on his terms will not be kind to my self.

Maybe it is so that he does not love me the same way I love him? Maybe he has fallen out of love and only sees me as a friend and I am fooling myself for wanting more and explaining everything from the CSA. I dont know and I need to move on.

I am so sorry that you did not have someone there on your side, that your family did not support you. I hope you have that someone "special" on your side now. You deserve to be loved and supported. We all do.

Be kind
Sunflower

 

[Sunflower]

Dear HH,

I am not used to writing in forums so I missed your last comment, so yes. You have come a long way by letting go of what you cant control, but not letting go of him. Your values are very clear and in this sense I envy you.

My major concern is my doubt as to what he feels for me. Does he really love me? Am I putting to much weigh to the CSA? Am I only a romantic fool that cant let go of a relationship that is over? CSA or not? And when writing this I realise that the relationship is in fact over. We are not a couple. He does not want to be with me. I just have to face that and move on. Moving on for me would be to leave him as I am in pain when he can reach out to me but I can not rely on him. Sry for rambling. Confusion and mixed emotions.

Be kind
Sunflower

 

[HealingHope]

Sunflower, it’s so confusing the csa. I asked the same questions you are, especially am I a romantic fool that can’t let go.
Writing here so often shines light on things, I’ve often processed my thoughts and feelings, figured my head out by just processing them in a thread.

Be patient with yourself, and kind too because you’re brave enough to reach out and share your pain but as we do? The fog can clear and that’s when we have insights and clarity.

For me so often a survivor would say something that would help me see how enormous the csa effects are which helped me see that my survivor needed time and space. I’ve grieved my loss of him on here. I’ve like you not been able to tell anyone of my relationship with him.

I think I’ve seen how boundaries can help too if I’m hurting I give myself time to process that, through therapeuticly working on myself and learning about my own triggers and attachment issues. Once I’ve been able to recognise my triggers it’s helped me separate my stuff and see how my needs were for me to work through. It’s taken a long time to recogise when I’m reaching for him to know it’s old abandonment stuff that’s triggered and it’s not his absence. Then the pain doesn’t hurt quite so deep, I’m able to see that his recovery and healing needs distance from me too. I never lose hope that one day I’ll get the message out of the blue that says “hi, I know it’s been a while, how are you?”

 

[Chris4TheMill]

Sunflower,

He is unfortunately not emotionally available - to you or anyone else. That's the sad reality of it. It sounds like he is wrestling with his own core of shame and is drowning under the weight of the messages that the shame is bombarding him with. It's a really tough place to be and if he thinks he can manage that alone, then he still has some very hard lessons to learn.

If he really wanted to make it work with you and be together, he would at minimum seek help for his issues. Since I believe you indicated that he is not seeking proper help, that kind of sinks the deal. Basically you've got someone who is stuck and without seeking help there is no guarantee that he will be able to move forward or work through his issues.

The question then comes down to, can you accept a relationship (platonic, confused or otherwise) that is almost entirely on his terms and constrained by his current limitations? If the answer is no, then you are doing the right thing by working to maintain boundaries and move on, hard as that is to do.

I wish it were easier and less painful. But we unfortunately can't make people be there for us when they just don't have it in them to do so. You sound like a very caring person and that you were willing to accept him, but he just can't value the good things that you have to offer right now. That in no way denigrates what you have to offer - many times we have wonderful things to offer someone. But if the person we are interested in cannot value those things, then it is usually a signal for us to try to find someone who can. Hard as that may be to face - and I know it's hard. I'm in that position right now, and have been for a long time.

Whichever way it works out, you've lost something, and I'm very sorry for your loss.

Regards,

Chris

 

[AuthenticMe]

Hi Sunflower,

I re-read your post a couple of times to make sure I understood that he sexually assaulted you. As much as I like to encourage anyone who wants to support a survivor on their healing path, I don't see how you can be in any type of relationship with someone who sexually assaulted you without a serious commitment from them to address it with the help of a professional. By telling him what he did was not OK and that you can't be his friend if he doesn't seek help you would be modeling healthy self-esteem, something most of us survivors lack. When I was going through a particularly rough time in my recovery, I confided something in my wife, who responded by hugging me, saying that she had faith in me and leaving me alone. She did many other wonderful supportive things, but that moment stuck with me because she was showing me the behavior of a self-aware, non-traumatized adult.

You are clearly a caring, compassionate person. There's a saying in my spiritual tradition that you should be sweet, but not so sweet that someone can chew you up and spit you out. Hope this helps.

Lome

 

[Sunflower]

Hi Lome,

Thanks for your kind reply and concern. You are so right that there were a lack of healthy self-steem and proper boundries from my side. There was a clear statement from me that his behavior was not ok. Unfortunately I have not been strong enough to say that I cant be his friend unless he seeks help as I felt that would only make him feel rejected and abandoned (really strong triggers for him!). Now one year later the situation is different. One of the reasons that I am here is that I am working on my self-esteem and that I am starting to look at what I need, on my terms. So progress, maybe. Easy? No. Not at all.

Sunflower

 

[Sunflower]

Dear Chris,

Your reply really moved me, I felt sad and at ease at the same time because this is what I am starting to realise. He is not able to give me love. He is not willing right now to work on his issues. Then there should be no room for me in his life.

I think that I may indirect be one of the reasons he is reluctant to work with his problems. The role I have had the last year has been one of a very close friend, supportive, loving and fun. He got all the perks of a relationship without having to adress the burning topic: sex and committment.

Now that I am going away it may be the "push" he needs to seek help, what do I know? I love him so much that I just wants whats best for him in the long run. But I think I need to love my self now. To give me what I need. So yes, working on my boundries.

I really appreciate your kind reply,
Sunflower

 

[dark empathy]

Hi Sunflower.

I've considered replying to this topic for a while, but oddly enough Lome said very much what I would've said.

On the one hand I'm a surviver of sa myself, on the other I am married to a wonderful lady who was trapped herself into several unhealthy relationships so I can see this from both sides.

It is true that recovering from abuse is a very lonely process and does require being alone to work things out, however that does not translate into actual neglect, still worse into sexual assault, abuse is certainly not an excuse.

You are obviously someone capable of a great amount of love, however if his response to this is actively harmful to you, you are not getting what that love deserves.

You cannot be responsible for him, you can only be responsible for you, and if he is not either to healing himself or to giving you what you need then perhaps the situation is not a tenable one at the moment, and probably won't be until the dynamic changes and he is willing to acknowledge your needs as well as do something about his own.

Hope some of this helps.

Luke.

 

[Sunflower]

Dear Luke and everybody else that have answered and read my question,

I am so greateful for all your support and warmth. There is genuine compassion amongst you all and it is clear that you also see to my wellbeing and this is very moving. Thank you so much, yr advice have also helped me and my loved one.

Yesterday he showed up (out of the blue) and we talked. He now confirmed that he had never fallen out of love for me and I cant tell what a relief it was to hear that - and how sad it also made me feel. With your help and with my own therapy I now understand that he is in a place/position where he is not able to, not that he doesnt want to, but because the CSA he is just not able to receive and give love on equal healthy terms.

I felt so strong when I maintained my boundries and for once I did not ask, question or plead. I simply let him understand that I love him and he is the one who is reponsible for his recovery. I did not even say that I wanted to wait, I only said that I loved him and that I needed to move on with my life.

He then said that he will seek help, that he wants to and that he will do it in feb/march next year. I still said nothing and only confirmed to him that it was good and he is the only one that can decide when he is ready to work with himself. Yet again I did not say I would wait. Because I can't. Not until he tells me that he wants me to wait, wants me to work on his issues together with me with the focus of a healthy balanced relationship. Not until then.

Now I feel a strange peace within. I need to be strong and keep the distance and get on with my life.

Bless you all,
lots of love
Sunflower

 

[HealingHope]

So glad to know you’ve found some of the answers you needed especially hearing that he loves you. That inner knowing that he’s affirmed... is what I long for. Feeling inner peace is what we all strive for I think.
I’ve learnt something from your strength and your story, Sunflower.
It’s because I don’t have my answers that I struggle so hard to find that peace. I just manage the symptoms of not knowing. Thank you for taking the trouble to be here these past days. I’m all the richer for it.
Blessings to you both. HH

 

[Chris4TheMill]

Dear Sunflower,

I am so impressed by how you handled your latest interaction with him. It shows how far your own strength has developed through all this.
You did the very best thing, you affirmed your love and left the door open but also made no promises. Nor did you try to push him or do the work for him.

You also made clear that you cannot have a relationship on these terms and that he is responsible for getting help for his issues.

That takes alot of strength and courage. I hope that i have that same strength if ever I am in a similar situation.

I also have to be honest and say that it was a bit of a red flag to me when he said he would seek help "in Feb/Mar." Why not sooner? I just get the impression he is not quite there yet, where he truly understands how his unaddressed issues are affecting him or his relationships. That is why it is good that you are maintaining boundaries, so he can understand that you will not just give him a free pass to let things go on without being addressed.

Lots more one could say, but basically, you did the right thing. I'm sure it doesn't feel great. But as we know, many times doing the mature thing isn't going to feel great at the moment. But later on we will have less regrets and more self-respect for having done the wise thing.

Regards,

Chris

 

[AuthenticMe]

Very well done, Sunflower. Not only did you do a great job of setting boundaries and taking care of yourself, you also modeled healthy adult behavior. You deserve a big round of applause and an ice cream sundae (or whatever your preferred method of self-reward is ).

Lome