what would you say if you had the chance

what would you say if you had the chance
theo

theo

Registrant
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edited: guys, nothing has been changed in this thread i have started, i just wanted to add that if there is dificulty in framing a response to this then i do not want you to put yourself at risk. this could be triggering for some of us here so proceed slowly and please do not contribute if it starts to trigger. you are worth more as an individual and a brother and i do not want anyone to suffer needless pain. i am sorry i did not post this warning sooner. take care. theo 2-25-04
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guys,
i have been entrusted with a project to help msorg by writing a series of articles that will be sent out to various media outlets, but especially concentrating on the nation's university campuses. this particular project will consist of a comprehensive article that covers the experience of male survivors with the intent to bring home the devastation victimization causes not only as a victim but as a survivor as well. what i want to do is to write an article that helps the person not familiar with a survivor get inside the mind and heart of one. it is my hope and belief that with this article in the university newspapers, and the discussion it would cause, would do a lot of good for the readers and for the site. it will not only be understanding the daily struggles of survivors but also of the daily victories in recovery. i have a favor to ask though. if you all could read and answer the following question in your own words it would help a great deal. i see the direction this should go, but i need our words. if you do not feel comfortable responding here in the thread, or are unable to, then please pm me your response. this is an open mic question and anyone is free to respond. on to the question.

question:

if you had the chance to talk to someone in power, such as the president of the united states or state governor, and tell them of whatever you could say in order to help this person understand the life of a survivor/victim, what would you say?

clarification: this is not about passing laws, settling debts, etc. this is about trying to explain to someone who has no experience about being a victim/survivor about what it means to be one. it is about telling your story in a way that would reach into this person and open their eyes. it is about the chance to tell our story. if you could talk to the president, what would you say? no essay, no formality, no contest...just your words, your heart. this is what needs to be told. if i said too much or lost anyone please let me know. everyone here, take care of yourselves.
 
Okay, I'll give it a try.....

Imagine, for a moment, someone who loves you keeps doing something to you that, while it may feel good, emotionally and physically, you know isn't right.

This person means the world to you, and tells you every chance they get that you mean the world to them.

This person tells you what they're doing is right and normal, but insists that you keep it a secret, telling you that no one will understand.

And you still have doubts, but you go on because this person loves you and told you they'd NEVER lie about something like this.

And this continues on, and the more doubts you have about what you're doing, the more they begin to color every other aspect of your life, including trust, love, hope, faith, everything. And you don't WANT to doubt them, because this person loves you.

And the more doubts you have, the more pain you feel. The more pain you feel, the more you try to run away from it, physically and mentally, by distancing yourself from others, by drugs, by drink, by overspending, by sex.....

And you still can;t get away from this person because you KNOW this person loves you and would NEVER lie to you.

Then, you find out that they DID lie to you. About everything........

And then, you have NOTHING that matters to you anymore, because you've been betrayed and NOW you are as alone as this person said you'd be.

THAT'S what it's like to me.

Peace and love,

Scot
 
scot,
thank you. these are words of power and this is exactly what i am looking to convey in the article. thank you, i know it was hard and i want you to know i am honored with your trust and will do my best to live up to it.
 
Theo,

I don't mean to go all political on you but I think that the current president and all of his followers are of the mind that we are, what is wrong with our country today. You know, that we're a bunch of whinny babies that just can't get over it.

So, if I had the ear of someone who could make a difference, maybe then I'd share my story, but I'm afraid a lot of our stories are like, casting pearls before the swine"...our words used against us somehow.

Who could that someone be, "that could make a difference?"
It would certainly have to be someone who could affect our schools and what is taught.

That learning to live with one another would have to be number one in the curriculum.

The behavior of bullies would not be tolerated.

An atmosphere of helping and encouraging younger students, by older students, would be rewarded as good citizenship.

It is when someone stoops to help a less fortunate individual, that they truly stand tall.

We do have it backwards, yall, with me getting mine and the hell with you.

If you find that guy who can make a difference, Ill tell him that we truly cant leave kids behind. We have to have older students encouraging younger students. We have to have counselors aplenty to deal with the incredible absence of parental responsibility. Many of our parents simply do not have the ability to be positive role models for their own children.

I am one who sees that the schools are going to have to play a larger role in our childrens lives, not a lesser role. Just think what our children DO NOT learn in Kindergarten. Its more than a joke, you know.

I hope that I havent ruined your string with my rhetoric. Feel free to move this to the crackpot stump, if you want to, but I think that if we dont start gearing this world up for our children, there wont be a world FOR our children.

David
 
ivanhoe,
your response does help. admittedly, not exactly the format i had envisioned, but valuable insights nonetheless. i agree as to the utilization of education as a good medium for getting the message out, however, there is a well documented danger of what has been called "character education" in that the public school system would be given specific directive to implement curriculum geared towards developing proper character...the problem, of course is whose definition of "proper" would be used in this pluralist culture of ours? now, i know that is not directly what you were refering to, but it could easily go there, so the challenge would be to develop something that might assist formation of critical thinking skills...oops, sorry. i just realized i was back on my soapbox and way off the topic :) !

roland,
thank you. i really hope to be able to convey the sense of progression in the life of a survivor in terms of the stages we go through. your response shows that very well. the plan for the article is to have a general intro, samples of anonymous snapshots of actual survivors in terms of an event "in the life of" format, and the progressive stages we go through i mentioned earlier.

i want to thank you all, again. this is really helping me out with the project. please, continue to respond to the thread as you are able to do. each addition is that much more of an insight into not only our daily hell, but also our daily victories.
 
One other thing you can add, Theo,

I wonder if anyone can imagine, even after deciding to heal the damage done, having to cope with reliving the event, in vivid details, over and over again in their minds? Or struggling with mood swings so devastating they can leave you close to suicide (if they haven't driven you to it already)?

Living with that today, tomorrow, everyday. And it feels like it never ends, never, even when you feel good.

Peace and love (and hope this helps)

Scot
 
scot,
thank you for that addition. i will include that effect. it is my hope that i will be able to post the finished article here on the site for all of you toread. take care, scot.
 
Outwardly I led a good, successful life. When I turned fifty things started falling apart. I had all the things I needed in life, quite a few of the things that I wanted but not the thing that I really wanted. I wanted my childhood back. I was eleven when it first happened. He was fifteen. He was like a big brother to me, the big brother I never had. I could tell him anything, I thought he was the best. When he wanted to do things to me I didn't know what to think but he did it anyway. Some of the things he did made me feel good, some of them hurt, all of them were secrets that I could tell no one about for over 38 years. I was so ashamed of what happened, it must have been my fault. That's what I thought for all those years.

I'm healing now. I've gone through a lot of other losses in my life. I'm feeling a lot better about myself now, I actually like myself now. I'm not bitter about what happened way back when 'cause there's nothing I can do to change the past. The only thing I can do is live in the present and hope for the future. Chilhood sexual abuse happens. It has happened way too often in the past. The fear and shame keep the victims silent, living alone in their darkness. I think that the public perception of abuse is severely distorted. A lot of us didn't deal with the abuse issues until a lot later in life because we were'nt strong enough until then. I was numb and unfeeling for a majority of my life, now I feel again. I feel sorrow, anger, rage and a profound disappointment. I will never be 'normal', the abuse shades so many aspects of my life. I don't want other young boys to have to live in anguish their entire lives because of fear and shame. The fear and shame belong to the perpetrators not the victims but the victims are too often blamed. We blamed ourselves and kept silent.

Steve
 
Everything was as it should be till I was about 4 years old. Then everything changed. He smelled of Aqua Velva, smoke and beer. He was squishing me. It was dark and there was something being shoved in my mouth that tasted bad. Then my under pants were wet. I was crying. I didnt have another pair of under pants to wear after I got up from my nap. He gave me a peppermint to suck, told me to stop crying, that he loved me. My grandmother scolded me for dirtying my clothes as she hand washed the garments in the sink, later hanging them on the clothes line for all the neighbors to see my shame. She asked me if I enjoyed my nap with Grandpa. It went on for four years, but by the time I was eight years old, I was too old for any more naps with Grandpa. But it was too late. I had withdrawn. Withdrawn into my own world,I was afraid of adults and afraid of normal physical affection. I felt nauseous whenever I smelled my Dads cologne (Aqua Velva) when he came into the kitchen in the morning for breakfast. I grew up hating him and being repulsed by him and not knowing why. I lost the natural confidence of little boys and became nervous, sullen and moody. I was afraid to speak and developed a bad stutter. My parents took me to a psychiatrist by age thirteen. He didnt help. By age fifteen I had left home, by age 16 I was into lots of drugs and alcohol, and had learned I could make money on the corner of Bay and Grosvenor. By age 17 I was in an adult mental hospital. I was there as an involuntary patient, having attempted suicide several times. Today I still have the scars on my arms and the memories of tubes being shoved down my throat to pump my stomach. I was lucky. I met some good doctors, good friends, good people who helped me.
I survived. Life is good now. I am still angry. Im even afraid of my anger sometimes. I have had to work hard to keep my sanity, something most people take for granted. But I also have the capacity to love,contribute and feel very deeply about people and issues. I count my blessings. Not everyone is so fortunate. Andrew
 
what would I say to the "Dangerous Brothers" ( Bush & Blair ) about CSA and the effects it has on men ?

"Please take us seriously.
There are many men like me who have had their lives changed, sometimes irreversibly, for the worse.
Nobody took me seriously when I was 11 and had just been beaten and raped by six older boys, my headmaster didn't believe me. He didn't even bother to check me physically, if he had he'd have seen the blood from my torn backside. Instead he caned me six times on my backside for being a "Liar and troublemaker"

So I started my teenage years as a liar and troublemaker, what else could I do ? I had to lie so "we could have sex" for the next four years. I caused trouble because maybe then someone might ask "why" - nobody did, I just received more punishment.

As a young man I carried on, petty theft and vandalism. I failed exams and my apprenticeship.
But I was a good liar by then and I talked my way into jobs, I thought I was "allright"

I wasn't though, I was struggling to stay afloat. I drank too much and did a few too many drugs, somehow I avoided addiction but it was close.
I even got married, and despite huge problems remain so after thirty years. But I lied to my wife for twenty five of them !

It was only when I somehow weighed up the risks of giving blow-jobs to strangers in toilets against losing everything that I asked for help.
Because that's what I'd been reduced to - cruising filthy public toilets and giving unknown men unprotected blow jobs.
Did I do that because it's a cool thing to do, is it a lifestyle of choice ? is it hell !
It's the legacy of my abuse, and the result of not being taken seriously and believed.

It's a serious subject, childhood sexual abuse wrecks children, their families, and their future as adults.

There's a growing body of Survivors, especially men, who have lived through their abuse and are now perpared to stand up and fight for those Victims that will surely follow.

We're serious about making it easier for them, are you ?"

Dave Lloyd
 
Theo - what would I say?

Well whatever I said, they would probably ask me why I hadn't got over it after 34 years? They would probably want to know what impact it could possibly have on an ignorant 12 year old that could still cause him harm after 34 years. They would probably want to know why I wasn't just getting on with my life and forgetting about it! Well that's what I thought people would think when I first thought about telling anybody.... that's why I never did tell anyone until recently.

Well I took so long to deal with this thing because I thought I was an intelligent kid that understood so much about the world. I had grandparents that were retired, who took me on long walks through the countryside and taught me the names of many plants, animals & geographical features. They were adults that I trusted and they never gave me any reason not to trust them. They used to take sweets, fruit and other treats on our walks and I had what must have been one of the best childhoods possible.

At eight I moved town and a few things changed, my grandparents weren't as close, so less available, so I made new friends. At 12 I moved schools and due to some issues at that time, I was temporarily in need of a good friend.

This was when 'the perp' identified me & started the grooming process. Told me he had air rifles that I could fire, but would need to leave my dog at home. I was trusting of everyone (1969) and although intelligent had no real understanding of what sex or perverts were.

This person bought sweets, fruit (spot the similarity) to take on our walks. The 'games' started after I had been lulled into a false sense of security.

This person told me that everyone did what we were doing at that no one ever mentioned it - why should I think an adult was lying. I was told that I would be a better man sooner than the other kids and that I would have a great family. Without going on too much, I only realised that something was wrong when a policemen walked past one night and I was told to stay quiet!

That was the last time I ever saw him (until I banged into him recently)..I was confused for ages afterwards, started to grow my hair, dropped to average at school (from A grade)and started drinking.

My subconscious took over my life until the last 10 years when it all started to grow in my conscious mind as well as my subconscious...I relaise that I had been betrayed in the worst possible way.

I had very little trust for anyone....34 years on it all got too much and I HAD TO SHOUT.

See I never thought I would be believed! I never knew how to speak up! I was still 12 years old. It's only now that I can move on.

Why do they only get a few months in jail, if that...they screw so many lives up.

If you are a President, a Prime Minister, a Senator or anyone in a position of power would you ask your Son to just forget it & get over it? No - I bet you'd want the death penalty.

I am recovering because I am strong, not because I have been weak! You cannot see my scars as they are all inside of me - you may sometimes see the pain on my face!

Hope this helps Theo...you can use any of the postings I have made on this site if it helps your cause!

Best wishes ..Rik
 
steve, andrew, dave, and rik,
thank you each and every one of you. i will be going back over each of the posts and respond more in depth through pm in the next day or so. the last few days have been pretty difficult for me so i have not been able to stay on top of this plus everything else, though i have been working on it in the back of my mind. i already have a revised plan outlined that i mentioned elsewhere and it will probably be revised just a little bit more to tweak it, but the essential format is there now.

please, for those who are able to, please continue to respond as you can. each story is like a piece of a quilt because each piece of history combined makes something incredible. take care, all.
 
Response may be trigger.


I think that the prejudice of society gets into the way with this. Men must be strong and silent, yes? Consider:

A man sexually assaults a woman, forces himself on a woman, it is called rape.

If a man sexually assaults another man, forces himself on said man, the victim is called gay.

If a woman speaks out about the sexual assault, she is being brave.

If a man speaks out about it, he is being whiner, 'wussy', baby and anything else that is less then a man.

That alone is evidence of the discriminatory views of society. But next, consider that the person assaulted is not a woman, not a man; but a male child. What is thought then?

I have been fortunate. I have something of talent that some people consider worthy of something. I have been successful in my career, and am embarking on my second one already. So surely, if that has been accomplished, this could not have damaged me so much, correct?

I have struggled with disocciation, now I realize, most of my life. I have been called stupid in school, because I have 'gone away' in my head during lessons, and never remember them. I have spent some time as a less then pleasant person. I have drank to much alcohol, which caused an arrest last year. I have cut at myself, burned on myself, and have numerous times gone out and instigated a fight with a larger person to beat the hell of me. I have been hospitalized I think 5 times since starting to 'deal' with this, once to end up in ICU on machines after attempting suicide, the nearest sucessful attempt of the three or four I have made in 8 months.

Imagine waking up, if you are lucky enough to sleep, to mental images in your head, to evil voices in your head, to another day to have to try to survive the memories and flashbacks of what was done TO you, by an adult you should have been able to trust. Try to imagine living with feelings of guilt and shame, because it must be your fault, and of course, it is not suposed to happen to boys. I was ten years old the first time he started to abuse me. He was fifty. What control did I have of the situation? What shame or guilt is mine? Trust me, I feel it even so.

Imagine feeling actions upon your body, the actions of years ago, feeling them as they are occurring again, right now. Imagine smelling the sweat of this evil and odious man, despite his presence being no nearer then 6,000 miles away. Imagine hearing him laughing again at you, while you are crying and screaming and struggling to get away from him, hearing his laughter and foul words. Imagine attempting to go to sleep, to escape the horrors of the world you live in, only to be followed with the images and memories even into your dreams.

Imagine being a healthy 23 year old man, a professional athlete, who suddenly is seeing doctors and therapists every week, taking medications for depression, for sleep, for panic, for the horrible memories you are constantly assaulted by. Imagine feeling distrust of your own mother, your friends, your family, wondering what did they know and when, and why did no one stop this.

Imagine you are ten years old, with your hands tied to the furniture and the weight of your abuser, the weight of the world, on your back. Imagine that you have 8 more years of this to look forward to.

Tell me I am a wussy, or wimp, or complaining to much. Tell me that, after imagining all this, and I will be looking into the face of an evil, cowardly person.

Leosha
 
leosha,
with your words you have taken a person who has never known the hell we live through and made it their own. your words do not invite a person to glimpse our hell, you make them walk it. these are powerful words, leosha, and i thank you for them. i will do my best to maintain that power in what i write. thank you, very much, my friend.
 
Theo - I must apologise for saying 'your cause'...surprised no one else picked me up on it....I meant 'our cause'.

Leosha - first time I've understood so much of your history...you deserve the respect of everyone here!

Best wishes again ...Rik
 
rik,
when i saw that i thought you were refering to my writing the article, not the issue of survivor advocacy, but i do want to thank you for clearing that up. take care, rik
 
Hey Theo - This is a difficult topic for me and it has taken sometime for me to answer it. Though I've returned here several times, this is the first time I can respond. What would I say?

Male childhood sexual abuse is real, devastating, dangerous and deadly. I am a survivor and have provided therapy and recovery opportunities for 100's of victims. It is real though most if not all victims fear discovery and live in denial. Fear because society looks at early opposite sexual involvement as "scoring" and "being a man" at an early age. Several young men (14-17) were hard pressed to admit that being sexual at age 7 with a 25 yo aunt is wrong. These guys I usually see at juvenile facilities because of their acting out behavior (conduct disorders symptomatic from abuse). The denial because our society expects males to protect themselves and abuse therefore is a sign of weakness. Worse is when these guys occassionally become addicted to heroin, corriciden, etc. Worst is when these guys are so hurt, pained and damaged these become the weapons of death/overdose. These events occur when our society admonishes these guys to "just get over it" or "deny/ignore their reports" or "punish them for 'their behavior' of having sex". What would I say? Wake up! Take this seriously! Learn the symptoms! Provide good, proper, effective treatment and therapy! Protect your sons as well as you do your daughters! Take victims sexually!! Sexual abuse can be deadly!!!
We've all lost someone who couldn't hang on!!

Howard
 
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