what or who am i?

what or who am i?
G

guy

Registrant
gee, neat new forum to post on.

so here i am, twice divorced, two live ins and now back with my current love of all, a female.

i acted before. i did it again 3 months ago after a breakup and while suffering from depression.

my g/f thinks there is something deep and hidden.

I felt like depraved, dirty afterward. but i think i needed to feel that way.

i also though could have done the same with women, prostitutes, or cheap easy fuck girls but didn't.

i also know my acting out could be re-creating my abuse.

i just don't know. i love my girlfriend, her pussy, breasts, ass, softness, everything womanly.

i don't know why the hell i have done or do things.

what am i without a label?

guy
 
Guy - Many abuse survivors struggle with that question. It perplexes and confuses to no end!! There are several ways to approach this...I'll share one here. When you are having sex with a woman, what fantasies are playing in your mind (male/female) ? When you are having sex with a guy (bj's etc.) what fantasies are playing in your mind (male/female)? Your answer may provide a piece to your puzzle.

Howard
 
Originally posted by guy:
i like and accept gay people.
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Oh how nice of you, lol.

ok kidding aside. Don't listen to your hart, and don't listen to your head. Listen to your penis, Mr. Happy is the only one that can answer questions about one's sexuality. To put it another way, what do you think about when you masturbate. If it's Ms. July it's a safe bet you are a straighty, if it's Michael Phelps well you get the picture. True acting out has jack to do with sexuality.

Moving on to a broader issue can a gay guy fall in love with a girl and have lot's of happy bumpy bumpy, you bet. Because love has jack to do with sexuality. Now, you can make all kinds of arguments about how I'm wrong with that last statement so I'll give you my response to them now. Straight guys tend to fall in love with females because they are out looking for girls. And Gay guys are out looking for other gay guys.

Don't worry about labels. It'll work it's self out .
 
First, Brian: Leave it to you to be so frigging direct ("Mr. Happy," "bumpy-bumpy")! :D

But I also agree with what you're saying. I'm so completely screwed up about my sexuality, it's not funny. I fantasize about women and men. I f**k women and men. I make love with women and men (yes, there's a difference, imho). What does it make me?

Bi? Maybe.
Straight, but "acting out?" Maybe.
Gay, but in denial? Maybe.

WHo the Hell cares? If you're in a monogamus (sp?), what does it matter? You won't f**k around anyway because you love this person and want to remain loyal and monogamus with them. Fantasies notwithstanding.

I'm slowly getting into a relationship, and yes, it's with another man. He's treated me with respect. he cares about me. He wants me to be well. If it's love, great. Guess I'll be "living a gay lifestyle." But does it make me gay?

In this case, yes. But it may not curb the appreciation of females.

It's a strange situation we find ourselves in. Introduction to sex at an early age, in an abusive way, can seriously screw up your sexual development. Obvious that is, but it needs to be repeated. So let's just find out where we stand, and let it happen. As long as the relationship isn't an abusive one.

Peace and love,

Scot
 
thanks guys

you have helped me some.

brian z - sorry it came out that way. i just do have co-workers, gay friends, and famaily and it came out that way.

i guess i should have said that i like people in general and do not care what their orientation is or was.

when i am masterbating or havning sex, i am thinking of the personi am with and not fantasizing about a guy when i am with a women.

when i acted out, i was thinking of the sex, the scaredness, the penis, cumming, the being aroused but felt dirty, naughty, depraved during and after. but i like all those feelings, and went back again. maybe that is my s.a. of re-creating.

who cares i guess. i just gotta take care of myself and my emotions and deoression and anxiety. i guess i wil be comnfused but believe in monogamy and have been and will be that with any true partner i have. i will not act out on my kink or twisted thoughts as they occur. i do not someone doing that to me.

thanks brothers, guy
 
Hey Guy,

You don't need to appoligize for anything. I just thought the way it was wordded was funny. If anyone should say they are sorry it's me for commenting on it in the first place, but I never appoligize for anything. lol
 
Guy
we share this problem, although I haven't acted out with another man for 6 years.

Listen to your penis, Mr. Happy is the only one that can answer questions about one's sexuality. To put it another way, what do you think about when you masturbate. If it's Ms. July it's a safe bet you are a straighty, if it's Michael Phelps well you get the picture. True acting out has jack to do with sexuality.
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Brian speaks for me as well.
I fully agree that hetero's are attracted to women, gays to men, that's accepted.
I'm attracted to women ( even if I have been married for 30 years, I still look :D ) and I have never in my life looked at a guy and thought "I'd just love to fuck him - give him a bj - fall in love with him"
Not even when acting out, that was nothing more than chance opportunity, and if you'd have seen the ugly bastards I went with you'd agree with me!

BUT - I still fantasize about giving other guys bj's. Does that have anything to do with latent gayness?
I don't think so, not for me at any rate. It's a fantasy of a sex act that doesn't extend any further than the bj. I don't include any part of meeting the guy, the ritual of accepting that sex will happen, the aftermath of the sex, or any other sex act in my fantasy. I start and finish with the bj.
But "Miss July" always gets my interest, even if I also admit that if bj's were so awful us guys would never get one. All those gay men and women who give bj's can't be wrong, can they ?

Dave

Dave
 
This is an area that I'd like to do a chapter in the book I am working on (had a good day, spent 5 hours writing and editing today).

I think that for many men, doing a bj on someone is not about homosexuality. It is about controlling someone else's penis, making them hard, and by making them ejaculate, they have gone from being controlled to controlling someone else.

I'd like to hear more from survivors who understand that concept (or disagree with it). For a number of survivors I've worked with, I think the "acting out" by giving a bj is an attempt to gain control of the acts that were done to or by them. That means that the bj they were given as a child (beyond their control) or the one they were forced to do (also beyond their control) is now in THEIR hands/mouth.

A survivor turned perpetrator (with many young male victims) told me the other day about how he had to give his second perp bjs and as a teen, and afterwards he really enjoyed making younger boys orgasm (or if they were old enough) or ejaculate.

My sense that this is not about homosexuality or bisexuality. It is more about getting control over the act.

What do you think?

Ken
 
Ken I have pondered a lot about what you have written. And I am not sure if I am the right guy to respond to it. Giving a bj by force or getting screwed to me was a means to an end for me. It meant I was getting attention (love if you will) and it meant that I would get what I want if I resisted. Having the crap beat out of me. (Once again attention and in my twisted mind love). Now in acting out the promise was to give a bj or take it up the rear if I could torment them enough to beat the crap out of me.

Hustling was the same. The sex was pay back for being beaten badly. I never got excited with the sex only with the damage that was done to me. That could give me a spontaneous orgasm. I realize now it was totally screwed up. I always felt that that there were winners and losers in sex. And I was a loser. I hated the sex and if I did not get aroused by it they got mad at me. And of course that is what I wanted. So I guess I was a winner too.

I never thought I was in control giving a bJ. I did think some times it would be cool to just chomp down.

I guess I was one sick puppy. What do you think???
 
This is wrong. Garnering information for a book out of the pain of others. We don't even have a choice. You glean your information from the posts. If you asked your patients to talk to you, that would be one thing. But to get information from the sharing of others in similar pain, of which you CANNOT understand is just wrong. Please don't tell us that you only take your information from the questions you ask.
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deleted by Ken- personal attack?! If it helps even ONE PERSON heal, it is WORTH IT!!

Of course, this means I am off-center.

I'm not angry. Just tired of being used for the benefit of others.
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Sigh. deleted by Ken for personal attack...

Yves, see my next post. Thanks for being understanding.
Ken
 
Yves,

as usual, you have an impressive, if not perfect way with words.

God Bless you my friend.


Ken, I'd love to participate in your information gathering for your book, especially if it may help someone in the future.

I'm send you a PM.


Jimmer ;)
 
Marc:
I am not looking to quote anyone without permission who provides their input here. I'm stating that the content of this book is for survivors ( and by the way, there is no money being made for most survivor-oriented books.) It is about helping survivors and their loved ones.

That said, I would not exploit anything or anyone. If an open discussion about bjs (in this instance) helps people clarify why they are doing what they are doing and recognize the self-defeating nature of the practice, or begin to understand the dynamics of what they are doing, it helps them establish some control over their lives.

Believe me, I am not looking to exploit anyone. I posted a couple of weeks ago that I was using quotes from survivors anonymously. If anyone sees a quote from him (even though it is posted "publically" here and without any identifying information in the book) and does not want it used, I will gladly remove it.

I intend to post sections of the book in this forum for this purpose so people can comment on it or ask, if I've used their words, to remove them.

I hope you know me well enough by now that I will never do anything to hurt a survivor.

Ken
 
I hope you know me well enough by now that I will never do anything to hurt a survivor.
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Bravo, Ken. We applaud you and your good works. Let me assure you that the vast majority of us here know this of you without having to be told.

Hear, hear, an attaboy for Ken! :D :D
 
Ken,

The comments were meant from my own perspective. I know you would never hurt anyone here.

I've sent a post to the mods about a reply to my post.

It is just the way I feel, Ken. Suspicious. You cannot blame me for that after a lifetime of being used.

Sorry, I did not mean to offend. Just truth the way I see it.

Marc
 
Sometimes the best thing to do is to understand when NOT to say anything.

Haven't I seen this or said this before?

Jimmer
 
Originally posted by Ken Singer, LCSW:
(had a good day, spent 5 hours writing and editing today).

wow, if I can do 3 hours I feel like I'm on fire
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It is about controlling someone else's penis, making them hard, and by making them ejaculate, they have gone from being controlled to controlling someone else.

I just love it when you talk clinical.

I'm going to be direct here so if you are prudish stop reading now. I'm really good at giving BJs and because of that I enjoy it. So the issue of control is there for me. Getting someone else off is exciting to me. Being complemented on a job well done. And on the flip side (pun intended.) Sitting back and letting someone else do all the work is also exciting to me. But I have to tell you I just dont think it has anything to do with SA (in my case).

I cant say I disagree with your theray, in fact I think it makes alot of since, but I also think the who what and why (of acting out) is probably more complicated then just piloting someone elses equipment.

And one final point, sometimes acting out is not acting out, its just get'en some.

Z
 
From my point of view, acting out is first of all connected with huge sexual intensity during performance.
The pleasure itself is multiplied to devastating level by different factors.
It is also connected with losing control over myself. It is something demonic and inhuman in process in which all activities are pushed aside by pure sexual drive.
When you are child and you are involved in same sex it is like you are lunched in totally unreal, rocket high orbit (and I can not say for sure did I ever land back).
In other words my sexuality was "activated" before I was ready biologically and mentally.
So there is no simple, logical explanation why I am forced to do this, rather there is huge chaos that is for the moment perfect pleasure then perfect hell, mixed with guilt and tireless sex appetite.

It is about sex instincts that are taking control over my body and mind.
It doesn't matter how much I am trying to understand process. It is on sub consciousness level and I would never have total control over it...it is just always there, hungry and ready to hunt for itself.

Ivo
 
Gentlemen:
Let me address a few things here. First of all, everyone is here for healing. I've said before that everyone is damaged by the SA and reacts in different ways. One survivor may react to a perceived threat (self-defined) by lashing out, while another may flee for safety.

Doesn't mean one is better than the other. Support and understanding, whether you personally like or dislike a fellow survivor, should be the order of the day. Attacks don't help anyone's growth and healing.

I believe we have the makings of another good thread here, if we can keep the discussion civil.

That said, I want to address Brian's comments (if they were too graphic for me to handle, then I'm in the wrong line of work.)

What I'm trying to differentiate here is the gay sexual attraction vs. a more heterosexually oriented person doing the same activity (bj). I can certainly understand the arousal feedback loop in a sexual act, whether gay or straight. (You do this, s/he gets more aroused, which gets you more aroused, getting him/her more aroused, etc.)

I think there is certainly a motive of "positive" power in giving a bj to a peer (or giving/getting oral sex in a hetero situation.) There is a good feeling being responsible for the pleasure of the partner.

The difference I'm trying to refine is the negative use of the same phenomenon in an abusive situation. That is, the abuser is determined to use the victim's arousal as a means of taking control and manipulating him into an orgasm.

To Marc and others who might question why I'm doing this:

I think if I can use my extensive experience of working with adult and juvenile offenders with the work I've been doing with male survivors, I can help (in this specific case) those who keep wondering if they are gay because they act out by doing bjs. I think there may be a similar dynamic between the guy I'm working with who used to bring his young male victims to orgasm or ejaculation. There also may be variants of this "payoff" in the self-defeating acting out behaviors that we hear around here from time to time.

This is only one area that I hope can be addressed for survivors. I certainly want to keep the discussion going and identify new topics regarding sexuality in this forum and other areas, such as intimacy issues, trust, and a ton of other subjects that are discussed here at MS. I will probably post sections of the book for input from survivors at some point. In any event, nobody is being quoted with any identification, not even pseudonyms.

Brian: Yesterday was particularly good. Too hot and humid to mow the lawn or go to the gym. However, it was just right to be sitting on the screened porch with laptop and typing away. Hope to have more productive days like that.

Ken
 
Ken,

Youve said something rather thought provoking. When you talked about self-defeating behaviors. Is it possible that sexualy acting out is merely a manifestation of something bigger?

I see alot of self-defeating behaviors in my self. I also see alot of latent self-defeating behaviors in the posts here. In fact its something I see alot here.

Or, is it possible that the low self-loathing feeling some survivors have after what is commonly called acting out is just the reaction to the fear a'lot of survivors have about sex?

Wow, this whole line of thought could go on and on so I better end here.

Z
 
is it possible that the low self-loathing feeling some survivors have after what is commonly called acting out is just the reaction to the fear a'lot of survivors have about sex?
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Not sure what you mean by that, Brian. Like to hear more and expand on that topic.

In my experience, a lot of folks have "self loathing" after engaging in a self-defeating behavior (say engaging in anon sex in a bookstore). Is that what you are talking about or something different?

Ken
 
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