What if you really wanted to be a victim?

What if you really wanted to be a victim?
J

jimrh

Registrant
What if, getting the attention from an older cousin in the form of sex, was the only attention you could get from others. Does that mean you're not a victim? What if you don't even feel like a victim, like you wanted it, needed it?

What if you're actually envious of other guys' stories of how they were abused by strangers and in your mind you think that it is envious because that means they were desireable?

What if you think you're warped because you don't even feel like you were good enough to be abused by someone other than your older cousin, who then just dumped you after a while? :rolleyes:

Jim
 
Jim You where a victim and your cousin knew how to use you for what he wanted. He dumped you because he most likly moved on to other victims. It's all about power and he proved he had power over you.
and in your mind you think that it is envious because that means they were desireable?
Click to expand...
DESIREABLE had nolthing to do with the abuse from my PERPS. It was all about POWER and opertunity.
Your cousin could of given you the attention you need without abuseing you. There was no reason for you not to trust your cousin,and he abused you. Muldoon
 
Jim
When the guy that abused & raped me first approached me, pushed me against the wall and kissed me, I was very confused. Part of me welcomed it, the attention and the physical contact that my parents didn't give me.
Did I want to be raped? HELL NO!!!!!
I wanted love and attention like any child (or adult). My parents failed. No-one else stepped in. So when someone showed me some attention I was pleased.
The next time he went a step further. The time after he raped me.
I said nothing, then or for years. Did I want it? No, I wanted love and attention, not to be raped.
I said nothing because I feared being blamed and humiliated. I had little regard for myself as my parents showed no regard for me, so I thought I should just keep quiet and take it. Perhaps it was my place in life, I thought. But those were the thoughts of a lonely, unloved and scared child.

And it was no accident he picked me. I belive people like that can spot kids like I was. I was vulnerable because I was needy and lonely and cut off from my parents. He abused that to abuse me.

Don't take the blame for what your cousin did to you. You are the victim that has survived (and three cheers to you for that). He is the abuser. Put him in his place.

welly
 
I grew up with cold parents, I lived in the country miles from anyone else my age. I was lonely and starved of affection.
Boarding school, which I thought was going to someplace wonderful, turned out to be even colder and lonelier.

Sex became the price for affection.

It was nothing to do with 'desirability' - and although I do sort of understand where you're coming from with this statement -

What if you're actually envious of other guys' stories of how they were abused by strangers and in your mind you think that it is envious because that means they were desireable?
Click to expand...
I think that if you think about it carefully you'll see that "we" had nothing to do with it.
The reasons "we" became their victims were opportunity, and our vulnerability.
And being "there and vulnerable" has nothing to do with desireability.

Jim, we did nothing wrong. They did.

Dave
 
Hi Jim,

Along the way I have had some of the same thoughts you have had. Something that seems pretty common is that we all were starved for love and affection. It seems it didn't take our perps long to figure that out. We were deceived into thinking they cared for us.

My perp told me not to tell anyone as they would think I was a bad boy. They knew how to throw their guilt on us too.

Your cousin realized you were vulnerable and used you. It wasn't your fault.

Hang in there, Jim.

Gary
 
Jim,

I too have had feelings along the same lines. I sometimes have wished that I was abused by an adult and not other altough older kids. Somehow it would be easier to blame adults and it is in a way. But that wouldn't have made my life any easier.

Its just that F'd up type of thinking that victimization instills. We want to blame ourselves because that gives us some amount of control. We couldn't control our need for affection as children nor could we control how some people took advantage of that and used us. What we could control was how we reacted and behaved so we took all the blame on ourselves.

The parents who neglected us and hurt us bear some responsibility for the abuse. The perps bear the responsibility for what they did. The child who received the abuse bears none, although he is the one left to deal with it.

It is important though that we talk about how we feel responsible. Those are the types of thoughts we need to expose to the light of day and compassion of others. Thanks for bringing that up and letting me get mine out a little.

Take good care my brother,

Aaron
 
Jim,

You always seem to hit one nail on the head or the other.

"Hearing the stories of others and feeling envious because of their desirability over yours."

Why do I think that I know what you're talking about?

I think that all children are beautiful, all children are disireable, all children are deserving of love, hugs, strokes, caresses, care............but not as abused victims.

When we were sexually abused, we confused all of that physical attention as love.

Hearing how someone else was abused, we blank out the abuse and see only the physical attention that would be loving.

Our thinking was bent. "This is what you do when you get love. This is love. This is how I love you. This is how you love me. This is how we love each other. If I hurt you, that is love. If I embarrass you, that is love. If I ask you to do something that you'd never do in a million years but I tell you that it is love, then, it is love."

Can you think back to the grossest activity that your perp(s) had you doing and somehow telling you or otherwise conveying to you that "this" is love?

I don't know if I've touched on what you are trying to get across, but for me to have been with my perp, and having him point out to me the various "desireable aspects" of the boys passing by, still has a negative effect on me when I have to interact with children.

I was fine with my own daughters, but when they brought their friends over, it was sweat city for me. I've gotten older now and have had therapy to help me in these areas of anxiety but there is a lot that I still avoid, simply because my abuser told me that "it was love."

Peace, power and courage,

David
 
I just discovered a new twist on this idea of lack of affection, attention, desireablility, etc.

I had a therapy session yesterday and my psychologist and I talked about an email I got from my mother which was in response to my coming out email to my brother and sisters. My mother said that she didn't believe a word I said and everything I said was garbage.

My mother had completely dismissed my thoughts, my opinions, my words. I was utter nonsense in her mind. This has been the story of my relationship with my mother. My fears, my pains, my dreams, everything I desired, they were garbage to her. I even declined an invitation to go the Coast Guard Academy and get a degree in Marine Biology (my dream) because she thought I was crazy for wanting that and that there could be no future in such an ideal. I've regretted that ever since.

So here I was, getting attention from my father in the form of a belt across my back or arms and attention from my mother in the form of complete dismissal. I cry and it's no good because big boys don't cry. I fear and it's no good because big boys are strong and fearless. I want to play but I can't do that because I have to be the big brother to my little siblings and watch them play and make sure they stay out of trouble. No matter what I do, nothing pleases anyone.

Just wanting to be desired and truely loved. But it's gone and can't be recovered.

Now with my coming out, the rejection and dismissal returns (not a soul in my familiy has talked to me), as do my dreams about being a child again and wanting to be a victim, but not really a victim. I guess I've just warped it all out of whack.

Does anything really matter? I think right now, I'd just like to return to Jan 1st of this year, when no-one knew anything and my secrets were well hidden. I think I want to go back into the well.


Jim
 
So what are you really getting at here. You are saying that you feel a person cannot be loved unless he is desirable. You think a person cannot be desirable unless he is cute or handsome. You think you will never be loved or desired because you dont believe you are good looking. Jim this belief is only a coating, a mask, to protect you from being rejected or hurt. Its natural and its instinctive, and i think you should try to recognize it for what it is: a defense mechanism. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. Its the same thing as me saying i know im stupid. Its a defense mechanism, like having your barrel undercoated to protect against heavy storms. Its a reaction that comes with lightening speed when i feel threatened or even challenged. Its something i believe in deeply, it keeps me safe cuz i know i can always fall back on it, even crawl under it if i need to. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

Jim, you are good looking and you are desirable and you are loved. I mean these things. You know i would not lie to you. See them for what theyre worth, tuck them away in a safe place, try to look at them once in a while. Dont discount them, because there is no intention of rejection or hurt in them, only truth and a hell of allot of love.
 
Jim,

I can't believe that you wanted to be a victim. I do believe that you wanted to have a friend, affection, and acceptance by someone you admired.

He used and abused your desire for reasonable desires for his own self-serving preverted purposes. He is the one that used and abused you.

My second perp was a father figure to me. Fulfilling my need for an absent father. He used this to SA me. I was a victim of his perverted desires, I was there for the companionship and someone to look up to and admire. Not much to admire in him.

These people took advantage of us. A lot of us, you included, had our own needs we wanted filled, and these people abused us. Being victimized is not what we were after, but what they wanted to give us.

Take care my brother,

Bill
 
Jim
This has been the story of my relationship with my mother. My fears, my pains, my dreams, everything I desired, they were garbage to her.
Click to expand...
this hit a nerve for me, I got this from both parents - and I still do at 50yo !

I wanted to be a car mechanic because I'm a complete petrol-head, but no; that wasn't good enough. And I was dragged off for interviews at accountants and banks , nobody took any notice of the fact that I have dyscalculia (sp ? ) - dyslexia with numbers ! But who cared, it was a job in a suit !

I ended up doing an engineering apprenticeship, the plan ( their plan) was to go into a drawing office or something else that was 'nearly professional'

I failed that and bullshitted my way into engineering jobs ever since, I'm now a fitter doing maintainence on sewage treatment plants. But we don't talk about that........

Even my hobby of 4x4 competition driving gets dismissed with comments about "how much money do you spend on that ?" and "do you need to do that ?"
and on it goes, so we don't talk about that either.

Is it any wonder that boys like us accepted the attentions of others so easily ?
ANY supposedly "positive" attention was a new experience to me.

Dave
 
jim,

You can't go back to the well. that would be putting your hand to the plough and turning back.

Keep your focus faced forward. With us as your vanguard you have the strength you need to carry on. Walk through the fire. It hurts, but no more so than hiding. At least now you are with a lot of others. This is the next chapter for your story. Embrace it. Your life is unfolding as it should and you yourself are getting closer to fine. You are not alone now.

Sorry for all the cliche's but damn they seem pertinent right about now.

Ron
 
Jim,

My abuser pulled the same trick on me. I was starved for love and affection and I thought he was the greatest human being in the world, I worshipped him, because he was older than me and seemed to really care about me, seemed to feel that I was really interesting, desirable to talk to, touch, caress.

When he wanted to go further, take clothes off, why wouldn't I trust him? I was eight years old and my mother had stopped hugging me when I was five, my Dad never hugged me unless in terms of some stupid awkward ritual, and my older brother mostly treated me like shit.

So I trusted him. And he betrayed me. He used me just like your cousin used you and yes, part of me liked it. I liked the affection and I felt aroused by the touching. What I didn't like was how I felt afterward, or the fact that he didn't say stop when I told him to stop because his penis in my rectum hurt, badly. I also hated it when he told me not to tell anyone else because I had participated, I was just as or MORE guilty than he was, I had given permission and any other fucking bullshit lie he could say to scare me, an eight year old, into shamed silence.

Your cousin treated you like you were nothing, an object to be used, and it sounds like your mother emotionally abandoned you at a very young age. It's so sad and so familiar. Let me remind you of some of the main principles of sexual abuse recovery:

Being sexually abused is never a child's fault. Perpetrators bear total responsibility for manipulating, using, shaming, hurting children in the deepest way.

Some of the abuse often felt good, and this tends to torment us, as survivors, because we feel like the fact that we felt some pleasure at being touched means we consented, we participated. The fact is that touch does feel good, especially to children who have been starved for affection, and this has nothing to do with "giving consent." A child cannot "give consent"--a child doesn't understand what he is consenting to. Even if a child understood it on a physical level, he would not understand it on an emotional or a spiritual level.

You deserved to be treated with love, respect, kindness, and instead you were used, abandoned, and shamed in the deepest ways possible. Your perpetrator and your family hurt you, but now you have the responsibility of getting better, which is totally unfair. You have every right to feel furious about how you were treated and it will be essential for your recovery to put the shame your perpetrator gave you back on him where it rightfully belongs.

You are a brave survivor. Somehow you have survived all of these years without committing suicide, something that many who are sexually abused have resorted to.

I am sorry for your pain. It is so much like my pain and the pain of others who post here.

You are not alone.

Jeff
 
Jim,

I totally saw a lot of myself in your post. I grew up in an abusive household and did not receive attention from anyone. My cousin sexually abused me when I was 8.

Years later, I found myself putting myself into situations in which I was victimized again. Why? because I did not receive the attention, love and support that children deserve. Of course I went back to the man who raped me at 15, although it was clear that he wanted me to do things I wasn't willing to. He gave me attention and some sort of affection, no matter how messed up.

I was a vicitm and so were you--we just got mixed-up messages about desirability and affection...
 
My brothers: The more I read threads like this the more I am convinced that there is a pattern of similarity in all our lives. We were lonely for affection and love. We did not have it in our environment. They the fxxkers all saw this and exploited our vulnerability and used us for their perverted ends. And to top it all off shouldered us with the shame and the blame. And we go suckered into that and we kept it quiet and protected them. It also placed us in a defensive posture that tries at all costs to keep others at a safe distance lest it happen again. And for some it is a repeating thing that happens over and over and over again. And it happened to us all no matter what our sexual inclinations are. What terrible crimes they were and they number in the millions.

There are times, I tell you, when I wish I could wring some very deserving necks.
 
So often I have said that I liked some parts of the abuse I went through. Well, I look at it differently now. As so many said, we all need love and attention, and also respect, by the way.

We love the touch and the things that might have been said about being beautiful etc. But, I think what we would have really wanted are the hugs of a loving Mom and Dad, the bigger brother who both teased us and at the same time made us know that he was our big brother and would make sure no one harmed us. I think I would have liked to have had some loving things and some encourageing things said to me. And I might have squirmed a little, but it would have been nice to have my older sisters cuddle me some.

His attention would not have been accepted, and I would have screamed bloody murder, if I had had the other good things. His attention was just fake. I pretended I liked it, but I didn't. I darn near adored that guy, but I would not have seen him as anything other than a scoutmaster if I had experienced what we all had a right to expect.

We did not want to be victims. We didn't even want all his attention. We wanted the good stuff, and his phony, harmful crap was all we could get at the time. I wonder if he ever figured it out that I eventually came to hate him. He was a pathetic loser in a fine looking body...but all he really was is a fake.

People still want the good stuff. When it is appropriate I think we should give what we can. When it is not appropriate, I think we should talk about what a devastating thing it is to be a kid and not be loved, and treasured, and mentored, and protected. People who have kids need to know that they have to be loving to their kids. There are lots of ways to make a kid know that he or she is loved, besides hugging and kissing. It is just that in that case the parents need to work harder at making sure the child knows he or she is loved and feels that.

What a magnificent sight it is to see a Dad and son or children playing, or at a ball game, or at McDonld's and talking. To see a Dad talking to his son whose team either just won or just lost. But, maybe I am profoundly envious, but when I see that, I do feel a certain joy--but I also feel the loss all over again.

Just some ramblings as I think of you and I, as those precious kids. Someone said it well--all kids are beautiful and in a healthy sense, desirable. Their innocence and trust are a wonder to behold.

Bob
 
I do not believe anyone wishes to be a victim. I hear of people who say that some of the abuse felt good. I hear of people who say it was the only attention they got, and they even felt bad, or abandoned when the abuse stopped. That STILL does not make it right, and does not make the blame or shame go on the victim. You did not want to be abused, and have mental trauma on top of the physical that still affect you in life. You wanted attention. That is not bad thing. Please do not throw all this at yourself, you do not own it.

Leosha
 
Me too Ron....

Dave
 
Hello men:

This is actually the first time I've posted here. I was just so overwhelmed by the things I read in this particular thread, from top to bottom, that I had to respond. I have no desire to shift any focus on your original post, Jim, but what you shared I could have written. Actually, much of what most of you wrote felt like things I could have written.

For me it started with my uncle when I was 5, but his son, my cousin first approached me when I was 9. He was about 10 years older than me. For a couple of months it was just him and me, and him holding me, kissing and hugging me. I think I would have done anything for that to continue...maybe forever. Pretty soon it progressed onto pretty extreme stuff and many other men involved.

I did the same thing though. No matter what I was asked to to, I did it because I knew after it was all over my cousin would hold me, and that just was the thing I was living for I guess. I just about melted with your comment, Jake, when you said that there were a thousand other ways he could have shown me affection, but he chose to let me be used. Man, I've been working through this for many years, and somehow the way you said that hit me deep inside in a way I've never really thought before. I still feel responsible for what happened, even though my head tells me otherwise.

Thanks for letting me share a bit. This is really new for me. To tell the truth, I think I am pretty isolated in all of this and it is an unexpected thing to see all of you supporting each other. Sorta scares me to tell the truth.

Jonathan
 
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