What do partners want and need?

What do partners want and need?
R

roadrunner

Registrant
I have been reading and posting here a lot lately, and the insights I have gained from communicating with partners and family members has been very good for me. I think it's so important that survivors get the idea that while they are coping with the devastation arising from their abuse, others in their lives are also affected and sometimes affected very badly. It is so easy to lose sight of that.

Right now I have been taking what I have learned here and trying to use it to the benefit of my relationship with my wife. We have been together almost 25 years. I am just beginning to see how she was affected by all the years I was in denial (or whatever it was), and certainly I can look back and acknowledge many times when I let her down - simply because I could not SEE. Nevertheless she stuck with me.

Now, however, as I try to deal with everything that seems to be coming at me from every side, I am finding it difficult to know what to do with what I have learned from you all.

For example, just this evening she came home after a long day of hassle and bullshit with her business. She of course understands that I am going through a rough patch - a rather heavy and emotionally challenging assessment at a mental health clinic yesterday and then today a follow-up consultation with my doctor. But still, in she comes: the house is a mess, our daughter is watching TV, and there I am playing with the dog. No thought for what we will have for dinner, and as soon as she steps in the house she hears pounding rap music, screaming dog, husband laughing like a kid, and shrill squeaking dog toy. Talk about Mt St Helens......

This got us into a conversation that I swear sounded like SAR's post about the frustration that partners feel. Yes, I DO understand you Larry, BUT....... :mad: Yes, I know this takes time, BUT..... :mad: Yes, I know it wasn't your fault and of course I'm glad you are dealing with it, BUT.... :mad: Basically, her frustration isn't that I don't pay attention to her or show any affection for her. She isn't upset or suspicious because I am not very functional sexually these days - well, okay, for a long time now. It just seems to her that her own feelings and problems are trumped by mine...ALL the time. I asked her okay, what can we do. Her answer was that she feels like she's not even ALLOWED to raise her own problems or be anything but a source of support to me. I told her, okay I'm glad you said that but I never meant for you to feel that way. Then she said that's the bitch of it all: she feels that way all on her own.

So I thought, Fuck... and went into the kitchen to help her prepare dinner, and proceeded to be in the way the whole time.

I have to be honest and say I just DON'T know what to do about all this. It's not my fault - but it is. Of course I have to recover according to my own pace - but that's not fair. And so on.

I guess what I need to say is this: Now that I know a bit more what partners FEEL about dealing with a man who is a survivor, what is it that they feel they NEED from a partner who is a survivor. I know that's not the right question, but that's as close as I can get right now.

What I have in mind is that our relationship should not be dictated by the dynamics of my recovery. Or should it? I really don't know.

Suggestions? Vents? Insights? All welcome!

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry,

This is the very short version.

She needs to know that the relationship is strong enough to withstand her weaknesses.

She needs to know that your love for her and your bond to her can't be broken by her anger and hate.

That if she broke wide open and said every angry, hurtful, unloving thing she's not said for 25 years-- if she TRUSTED you with the feelings that shame and scare her the most-- you would still love her. You could handle it.

If this isn't true, then the relationship's been built on her back the whole time, and that's what she's afraid of.
 
Hi Larry - An unlikely source to provide some answer to your question, I know, but I think I have a handle on some of it

At 43 I've been married to the same woman for nearly 21 years. That's most of our lives. We've seen it all, sex outside the marriage, serious drug addiction, alcohol addiction (all on my side), lack of sex drive (on her side), a near fatal car accident, for her, a year into marriage while I was coke addicted, while I was messing around, while I was alcohol addicted and drinking out-of-control, joblessness, financial problems, even difficulty conceiving (until the miracle that occurred 9 years ago)and everything in between. I was in denial, she was in denial, neither one of us knew what we were in denial about.

Back to the present. I think, more than anything, that my wife needs to know that I love her,that her feelings matter too and that while I'm in this process of rebirth, that I'm not going to leave her behind.

My spiritual and emotional growth over the past two years, from broken little boy/man to someone who is learning to respect himself, reaching out for help and to give help, getting kudos from all around for the profound work I've been achieving, is somehow threatening to her. People just don't go through that vast amount of change in such a short period of time on a daily basis. Thank goodness most of them, my wife included, don't need to.

She needs to know that, even though I am going through a most difficult time, that she can still count on me. That I will get up and work each day, that I will help around the house, that I will pay attention to our daughter and be an involved parent....that I will not allow myself to be consumed by my healing and recovery.

Somehow I've been able to pull it off too. On days when I thought I'd be much safer in a rubber room (you know the feeling) I've had to do my best to use the old defenses and carry on, just like you do when you go to work each day or just go about your daily business.

Our burden is doubled in the sense that we have to juggle the flashbacks and emotions and therapy and all that goes along with our recovery while at the same time maintaining some sense of sanity. Our wives need to know that they can count on us, that we are not going to fall apart on them, that we love them, that we are not self-absorbed, because that's what this looks like from the outside. We need to temper our own feelings sometimes, not deny them, but temper them, maybe keep them inside until the kids go to bed, or her favorite TV show is over. We need to not let our recovery and our pasts define us and how we function.

This shit throws everyone for a loop. We survivors are afforded the luxury, most of us anyway, of knowing the one we've always counted on will still be there and is every day. They need to know the same thing, that we are still us (only headed for better) and that they can count on us to fulfill our responsibilities in our relationships. You, my friend, are level-headed enough to do that too.
Peace - John
 
Thank you Larry for this message, so here it goes for me what I needed from V:

- I wanted to know what was going on when he remained silent and did not communicate
- I needed to know that he loved me
- I needed to know that he could be strong enough for me and stick with me when my abuse issues were so devastating that I needed to collapse.
- I needed to know he trusted me (as much as he could as a survivor)
- I needed to know that he understood that I was not his mother (his abuser) and that he knew I loved him and would not abandon him
- I needed to hear "I am sorry I have hurt you" when he behaved so badly with me, when he was verbally abusive with me
- I wanted to know that our love was worth all the pains we were going through
- I needed to hear "I love you, I want to make love to you and we can take all the time we need to sort out all our sexual/intimacy problems".

This is more or less what I needed. Do you think it is too much to ask Larry ? Do you think it is reasonable ? I will be happy to hear also from you guys here what you think.
Thank you again for giving me this opportunity I never had with V.
Caro
 
Hi again,

John, as always, has some very wise things to say. Especially this part:
We survivors are afforded the luxury, most of us anyway, of knowing the one we've always counted on will still be there and is every day. They need to know the same thing, that we are still us (only headed for better) and that they can count on us to fulfill our responsibilities in our relationships.
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My partner and I talked about this so much-- the years before he started recovering took a lot out of me too because during that time, there was a lot I couldn't count on.

He has done a lot to show me that the change in him is genuine. I believe it. I'm proud of him. We really share a life now and he is as much a part of it as I am... I don't think for a minute that either of us will ever go back to being the people we were when we started.

But here's the thing-- even after he had done all that stuff that John mentioned, I still felt the way you describe your wife feeling-- I feared that I was trapped in the role of Support person-- that I'd always have to be at least as strong and reliable as he was, and probably more. I had faith in my partner to do his share, but I didn't think he could handle his share plus the greater part of mine, even though that was something I'd been willing to do.

Not that I want him to HAVE to do that... I want to be in it as much as he does... but when someone is being YOUR support person, it's insurance. You know in the back of your mind that if you fuck up, someone will be there to put you first and pick up the pieces. It's nice to know you have that even if you never intend to use it. Not knowing if the other person will have it in him to drop what HE's doing and put you first if you ever need him to-- it makes a lot of stress, and it feels like somehow you're still not sharing things equally.

I can't emphasize enough how much of this was in my own head-- not his fault. About my own fears and insecurities, about my lack of trust-- not trust in him, just a lack of trusting anyone-- about how much I had invested in my own self-image and the label of being strong and independent. That is where the part about unloading all the hate and rage comes in. At the back of all my fears was that most scary, most manipulative thing that so many children get taught-- If you hurt the people who care for you, they can punish you by withdrawing love. Again-- MY issue. But one that has as much potential to screw up the present as any of his issues screwed up the past. I needed to know that he wouldn't play that old game with me.

Larry, I hope this stuff is helping you, feel free to tell me to shut up.

SAR
 
SAR, absolutely don't shut up; this is what I need to hear. As I go through all this stuff - the assessment, which really ambushed me in a way, and preparations for going to the States - I feel like I am making a lot of progress and understanding a lot of things in ways I never did before.

But as I have said, I almost feel like I am inventing myself anew, and that is a very INTROspective process. I keep trying to see how all this is affecting Youmna, but a lot of times I just short-circuit. It's not lack of interest or commitment, I am just going through a lot right now. BUT...and here's the jag: that is the signal I bet she gets all the time! Your "very short version" is helping me as I think no other nine lines ever have, and your second post clarifies a lot more for me.

Caro, your list helps as well. Especially the area of intimacy. I know she has felt rejected, but I have tried to explain that the difficulty is me and not her. Sometimes I underestimate or just don't realize at all how much SHE needs to be reassured. For example my aversion to being touched unless I know something is coming and can prepare for it. She knows that is a problem for me, but still, if she snuggles up in the night and puts her arm around me and I wake in a panic and about to climb the wall, that hurts. I just want to go back to sleep, but then I think wait a minute, and sure enough, she feels rejected - again. I guess we just need to keep talking about it.

John, as usual your post is full on insight and compassion. Thank you so much. Yes, I DO know the "rubber room" feeling. I think mainly what I get from your comments is some perspective on how my own recovery can be shifted to a sense of recovery that includes both Youmna and myself.

Much love,
Larry
 
Just a note to say I mustered up my courage, printed off SAR's "very short version" and showed it to my wife and asked her, so does this sound familiar?

Answer: ABSOLUTELY! We had a chat over coffee this morning and she told me a lot that I needed to hear. I can also - though we have not talked about this yet - that she is apprehensive about whether I will still be interested in her or still love her once I have "recovered". Frankly, I still find it all so astonishing and unexpected. I am so glad I asked for input here on this issue.

I also feel very strange and guilty at the fact that I did not know all this. Fuck.

Okay, now I do know, what else can I say? Except I will try to act on it. Just goes to show how complicated it all is.

What a mixed up post. Never mind...here it comes.

Much love,
Larry
 
Sitting here in my 'rubber room' this thread comes at just the right time, Larry, I could have written that first post. And SAR's first reply was one I had to read about 6 times, it's what I needed to hear.
Caro, as ever makes some good points, simple points Caro, but although I can imagine how much partners need to hear these things they still fill me with dread. Why? Am I still afraid of saying the wrong thing when everything I know and have learned tells me it's the right thing? When I do say / do the right thing I get the right reaction back, and I like that. It's self confidence I guess? That might seem unlikely given that I have self confidence with you guys, but face to face with someone I love I still don't have the confidence to take the slightest risk of rejection.

but when someone is being YOUR support person, it's insurance. You know in the back of your mind that if you fuck up, someone will be there to put you first and pick up the pieces.
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I know my wife will be there to pick up the pieces, unless it's an olympic fuck up, and I appreciate that so much that I sometimes try to hard to please, and won't rock the boat at all by taking what I perceive to a risk, however small.

I'm better than I was, that's for certain.
When my mother in law died ( before disclosure ) I was no help at all to my wife, the opposite in fact. I just carried on as normal and behaved like the arse I'd become.
But when her dad died ( after disclosure ) I was there for her, I behaved like a husband who loved his wife. I actually provided support, which was a completly new experience for me, and her :rolleyes:

Another way I can see how I've changed is the way I deal with stressful situations such as 'persuading' my mother who has alzheimers that she'd be better off in a care home after she comes out of hospital after breaking her hip. She's not an easy woman to deal with, never has been either.
But I am dealing with it and NOT leaving everything to my wife, we're jointly dealing with it and supporting each other, again it's a new experience.

Perhaps when these stressful times are sorted out I can use these new found skills to do the right things towards my wife? I think I will because I can see the mutual respect and love WORKING now.
I didn't see it before, or if I did I rejected it.

The old cliche says "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" - well, up to a point I agree, I can see the basis for the cliche at least.
It is hard to learn new things at 51yo and after nearly 32 years of marriage, but it's NOT impossible.

Dave
 
Hi Larry

I feel a little as if I'm guessing at this because we are really only getting out of what might be called crisis stage and frankly the chief thing I needed to know was that he wouldn't drive his car off the road at 80 MPH and secondly that he wouldn't go cottaging again.

After that? Its hard because that I'm only just moving away from being consumed by those thoughts.

I need to know that he is with me because he loves me not just because he needs me to be there for him.... so not just to hear that he loves me but what and why. I'm not fussy at this juncture.. letters, poems, texts, emails, cards or just plain talking. :-)

I always find myself wanting him to share how he is feeling. Beacuse so much of what he feels and thinks is in his head or let out in therapy I feel isolated and seperated from him sometimes. When he does talk its usualy when we've got loads of time on our hands we are both calm and peaceful and the feeling of being connected to him is powerful when he shares with me how he feels.

Often when he's talked to me I want that what happens next is some space for how I feel about what he's told me, this would be a lot about how I feel about what he is going through/been through because I love him and I feel hurt, angry, powerless, redundant, intensly protective..... I wnat him to acknowledge and accept my feelings..honour them if you like...

I want him to be reliable... If he says he will do something to do his level best to do it...if he's going to be late, let me know. If he says he'l food shop so I can go get my hair done... Do it.

I want him to stick with his recovery programme.

I want him to acknowledge that if I feel there is a lack of intimacy then maybe there is....If I acknowledge the efforts he's made I want him to acknowledge the compromises I am making. EG I don't want to ask permission to kiss him but I will because thats important to him and I love him... I also want him to acknowledge that there is a cost to me in this.

I want him to tell me when he's pissd off with me and to have his own demands of me. I can tell and don't like it when he's flitting about me being grateful that I'm there. It stokes the feelings that he might only be here because he cant cope without me.

Larry, I'll think of more, I'm only just back at work and am shocked how much its taking out of me hence I've not been around so much.

I actually got up early to log on and send you all my love,strength and a warm strong hand to hold for the days ahead of you. I'm at a White Stripes concert tomorrow and in my head will be dedicating a song to you and your courage. I'll even do a little dance for you... not too pretty a sight to be honest but it'll be there.

Lots and lots of love and thanks for being such a support to me.

Tracy
 
To all here at MS.......I will take good care of Larry while he is home. Tracy, hang in there, and enjoy that concert! Love to all of you. LR
 
Hi all,

I tried to post last night after a long weekend away, but my computer was misbehaving :mad: and I lost my whole post.

What do I want from my b/f. Love and trust. The two most precious things in the world and the hardest for a survivor to give and, if my b/f is any indication, to receive.

I want to be able to say I love you or give him a compliment without looking up and seeing a pained look on his face. I want him to believe that what I say is true. I don't want him to tell me to stop or say he didn't do anything special. I told him once that when he did this, he made me feel the fool for having such feelings for him. A person can only be re-buffed for so long, before she starts to question her own feelings. e.g., if you don't love you, why should I love you? When I put it to him this way, he really thought about it and tried for a while to not to put me off, but it didn't last.

I know that this is a result of him not believing that anyone could love him for what he is and not want anything from him, but........

I want him to know that if we have a disagreement, it doesn't mean we broke up; it's a disagreement to deal with and move on. I don't want him to be so upset or confused by a spat that when I come over the next day he's surprised to see me because he thought we broke up and then to have such an intense discussion over what was nothing and have it be all about him. Sometimes it's just not about him, it's about us, or about me, or one or both of us just had a bad day.

My b/f would do anything he physically can for me. Case in point, we drove to Florida this weekend because my sister and brother-in-law needed us. He didn't hesitate for even one second; he was the one who suggested it because people that I loved needed help. That's how he is, but when it comes to accepting the same thing from me or others, he refuses.

Most of the time, my life moves along at a rather steady pace; it's a good life. But sometimes, I'll have a difficult day at work or a fight with my daughter or a sibling or my father and I need his strength to help me through. I feel guilty accepting his help because he won't or can't accept the same from me.

I want him to continue in therapy and I want him to get better. I want him to see that as a child he could do nothing to prevent what happened. I want the guilt to go away; I never want to hear another excuse for the horrid behavior of the adults in his childhood life; I actually want to see him mad at the ones who hurt him and I want him to be a normal, healthy man.

When all of these things happen, I want him to look at me and not see an "angel," which he's told me I am {and which I'm not} I want him to see the woman he loves and who loves him back.

I want alot.

ROCK ON........Trish

PS: LadyRock-Thanks. We need him here :)
 
A bit more from me

This feels a litle unkind but its true and if theres one thing I definatly want its for things to be real...

I want to know what he wants from me, if he's unhappy with me, feels/thinks I've been unfair or unpleasant I want to know this..It is very unfair to expect me to exist on guess work. I echo Trish's words. I'm not an angel. I have faults.
Its helpful if some of those faults are brought to my attention so I can accept and work on them and enrich our relationship. I don't want to be left guessing because he feels as if he doesn't want to rock the boat, feels as if he should accept me just the way I am because he's so grateful I haven't left him, that I've stuck around to support and carry on loving him.

I want to think about what I need from him and be ready to listen when he tells me what he needs from me. I don't want to have to think for the both of us.

He was unfaithful. I want to know that he needs.. no.... demands that I be faithful.Monogomy is important to me and I want to know its important to him. I don't want to hear that he feels he cannot ask that of me because he's been unfaithful. I think he indulges himself by doing that and doesn't respond to my need. I need to know that he would be devestated by me being with someone else. I want to feel wanted.

I don't want my love to be minimised. To asume I would leave if he critisized me undermines the depth of my love for him and insults my ability to accept and act on constructive critisism. I want my love to be trusted.

I want him not to be scared of me. I am not an ogre, and if not acting scared isn't an option then talk to me about it so I keep on understanding .

Hope that isn't too harsh

We are doing quite well on the above actually, couples councelling helps a lot, and he has held his breath closed his eyes and really told me what he thinks about some things. Things he didn't think I'd want to hear. Its cool to see the relief, its great to hear some honesty and we are changing.

I love it!!

Almost as much as I love him

T
 
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