Upset and Tired

[Emmanuel]

I was sitting with my wife last night watching TV. We were watching Purple Rain (The Movie) with Prince. My wife made a comment about how feminine Prince was. I didn't agree. She then went on to say how Prince is a very Feminine acting man and that I probly wouldn't notice because my ways are similar. She went on to say how many people who know me have picked up on my femininity and that they just refrain from saying anything to me because they don't want to hurt me.
On hearing this my heart sank. I have tried to rise above the things that happened to me. I have tried to put all of it behind me. The things that made me act like a "Bi***" as I was told. Still to this day they follow me and it hurts. Why can't I just be like the other guys. I have yearned my entire life wanting to be just one of the guys. It hurts to know that I show the feminine chracteristics that I have. Sometimes I wish I were more of a quiet unseen person, so no one would know.

 

[The Dean]

Hello Emmanuel!

That is a powerful name you have there! God Among Us!

The cultures idea of how a man should and should not act has caused far too much harm to far too many boys and men. Thanks God that we do not have lots of John Wayne type around.

I have known a fair amount of very gentle, even delicate men who are as strong and heroic as any war hero. Having feminine traits or at least being in touch with the feminine side of ourselves is a developmental task all men have.

Rejoice in who you are. If you wish to learn different behaviors you could do that. But I would wonder if you would feel authentic if you did that.

I am saddened that you have been lead to believe that you are somehow not acceptable. Did you ever see the movie "BIRDCAGE"? I think it is a very sensitive treatment of gay men and their struggles--it brings tears to my eyes iin places. But there is a really funny part where Nathan Lane is trying to learn to talk and walk etc. like a "real man." It is great, funny and shows how stupid it is to fail to accept people as they are.

I live in a house where one of the guys I live with thinks John Wayne is god on earth. I am really deswperately trying to find some one tiny thing about the John Wayne character I can admire---hasn't happened yet but maybe someday.

Bob

 

[RickL]

Emmanuel,

I grew up playing the piano and not liking sports. My mannerisms were more on the feminine side as a kid, and I believe I have, perhaps, consciously and unconsciously, tried to "neutralize" those mannerisms--ie, act more in accordance with my gender.

Then, a couple of years ago, a woman client who was in my car remarked on how my hand movements while I drove were somewhat feminine and graceful. I think she might have meant it as a compliment--but I'm really not sure. Her husband is one of these super masculine types. I remember feeling a flush of shame invade my face. I can't remember how I responded, but I remember not liking that she made such a comment.

Sigh. With more recovery, age and experience comes more self-acceptance as well. It's spooky to think that I may not know exactly how I look and appear to others. I'm very sensitive with regard to appearing "feminine" because I was so shamed for it as a child. I also realize that my dad's brutality when I was very little, caused me to retreat and become that way. So as I recover from the effects of my abuse, it would seem natural for my mannerisms to find their proper expression--without the definitions of masculine or feminine. Just me!

Rick

 

[Sick Puppy]

No one has really said those things to me but every day I dread that I will hear it. I don't think that I have any "feminine" mannerisms but just because I don't think that I do doesn't mean I don't. I know-- or at least I think I know-- (but who's to say with all the perverts who've made comments about my appearance?) that the way I look is appealing more in a "feminine" way than a "masucline" way, if that makes any sense. Like, the difference between the ultra-masculine action hero movie stars and the "pretty boys" that star in teen dramas. (I thought to make this comparison because I had just finished watching a movie, not because I think I look like a movie star. )

That in itself is enough to bother me immensely. I am gay but I have no desire to be part of the "gay community" or hang out with other gay people. I feel like I would have to conform to them, to start wearing tight little shirts, to start... well, feminizing myself. I don't want to do that. It's not any hidden fear; I just don't have any desire to be that way. I like being a guy and I don't want to be ostracized from my peers because of the way I look or my sexuality. I like to fight, I like the loudness and pain and the rush of energy. Maybe that's weird. But it sure isn't feminine... right?

 

[Wuamei]

Men may have feminine mannerisms for any number of reasons. I was raised & around almost exclusively very dominant & often abusive females
in a childhood almost completely absent of any male models & definitely no positive ones to speak of. I didn't pick up "man-nerisms" or get taught "man stuff." I picked up feminine mannerisms & was taught to be feminine, even intentionally to a great degree.

I still have some rather feminine mannerisms by many peoples' standards. I no longer give a shit or even think about it really. Given the mannerisms of many with their ideas of manhood, I'll keep mine thanks!

I was created by a God Who made me in His image both male & female, thru both male & female persons. I was born a male. I think I was also born with, as well as raised with, female characteristics. I know I'm male so I should have no problem with that.

Occasionally I still do, but I know what I believe
& where I stand & who I am.

Victor

 

[Sleepy]

Vic,

I still have some rather feminine mannerisms by many peoples' standards. I no longer give a shit or even think about it really. Given the mannerisms of many with their ideas of manhood, I'll keep mine thanks!

I'm glad to hear that you're not trying to be "normal" anymore! I would add one of those silly stooges emoticon if I knew how to.
mike

 

[Marc]

Guys,

Being gay isn't about conforming to a stereotype any more than being straight is. That's just more crap that a lot of us grew up with. Some of my gay and straight friends are feminine guys, some are masculine and some are in betweeen. And some days are different than others where we are a little fey and other days we 'butch it up'.

Try not to let 'normal' society make you set a value on masculine and feminine behavior. "normal' society is what let us fall through the cracks in the first place.

 

[Wuamei]

MikeS:

You mean like this one?

OOHHH a wise guy eh?!

Mike I can barely do it much less explain how. But I think there have been some posts about this in the last few months or so.

Guys,

Try not to let 'normal' society make you set a value on masculine and feminine behavior. "normal' society is what let us fall through the cracks in the first place.

Thank you Marc that is so true & so well put! Trying to conform to "normal" society is like trying to do this:

Victor

 

[ScottyTodd]

Unfortunately, society - and much more unfortunately, we survivors - put a whole lot of implications around effiminate grestures and actions. Let me share a life lesson I learned in college.

I had a good, close friend XXX who was as 'flaming' as you could imagine. People used to say things to him and he ignored them for what they were. Sometimes those same things were said about me...I ignored them because I knew THEY were ignorant and I refused to take it seriously...who can tell by mannerisms alone?

There was another acquaintance (?) I had who shared my major therefore several of my classes. If he got to class before me, he'd wait in the doorway and rub my ass as I walked by OR would whisper in my ear,"You got the time?" WHY? He was out and out a closet gay but nobody suspected because he was so "macho"...star football lineman. Walked tough and looked tough - not a sissy bone in his body . BUT - he wanted to make me...sorry folks!!

I find that you can't tell by outward manner-isms. The bother comes from inner insecurity... if you know who you are then the H--- with others. If you protest, they only think you're in denial. Even if you may be gay, they don't really know for sure!! and it's really none of their business!!

That said - I realize how it hurts when you work to change those "mannerisms" you feel are telltale gay signs and fingers are still pointing your way. Focus on your main things in recovery and don't let this knock your course!!

Hope it helped? Howard

 

[ScottyTodd]

OH OH!! I left out the most important points - SORRY!! Senior moment!!

My friend XXX was raised by three females, mom and 2 aunts with his three sisteres - no male influences! XXX was as straight as you could get a guy!! Not a gay thought in his body. Today XXX is happily married and a great husband and father. Still has 'flaming' gestures but they bother no one but others who ignorantly get their exercise from jumping to conclusions!!

Sorry about the ommission! Howard

 

[Wuamei]

OH OH!! I left out the most important points - SORRY!! Senior moment!!

My friend XXX was raised by three females, mom and 2 aunts with his three sisteres - no male influences! XXX was as straight as you could get a guy!! Not a gay thought in his body. Today XXX is happily married and a great husband and father. Still has 'flaming' gestures but they bother no one but others who ignorantly get their exercise from jumping to conclusions!!

Sorry about the ommission! Howard

Your friend sounds very much like me actually. So thanks for the encouragement. And for all the good words you shared.

What in the world is a feminine or masculine gesture or role anyway? Shoot, men are secretaries
or hairdressers who tease hair; women are going into military combat & shooting grenade launchers or launching three point shots in the WNBA.

My movements are me. If people don't like them they don't have to look.

Besides you guys can't see them anyway.

Victor

 

[Lloydy]

This topic has just made me wonder how many of us try to be more butch by growing beards, having tattoo's, wearing more masculine type clothes - cowboy boots etc ( how many of us wear black as well ? ) and generally try to project the appearence of being a 'real man'?

And do we need to ?

Dave

 

[Mike Church]

I will add my two cents worth.

To my knowledge I am just a normal guy. I dont think my mannerisms are feminine or anything and now one has commented on them.

Now when I was hustling I could be as butch or flaming as the occasion warrented. I learned how to sense what they were looking for. Maybe I am so well trained by myself that I unconsciously try to be butch. And I am oke with that.

However there is one thing about me that is commented on all the time. I am a very emotional person. When I see something happy or sad I cannot hold back the tears. I took my daughter to see ET when it came out and I must have used a whole box of kleenex. Weddings, funerals, any number of things can set me off.
Now I always get comments about that. In my youth is someone made a comment, no matter what it was I beat the shit out of them. Nowdays I really dont give a damn what people say or think. I think I am in touch with my feelings and if this is not acceptable as a male then fxxk them I dont care. I am a decent male of the species regardless of my past.
I am a wolf of the pack and of that I am proud.

 

[Spidey]

I grew up mostly with my mom and sister - parents divorced when I was nine, so we're talking a good chunk. Just as well - my dad was about as cold a piece of stone as you can find.

On another note, today, I looked in the mirror and saw a softer face. First time I've ever seen it. Know what? I liked it. Because it came from being able to feel, instead of walling the poison up inside to slowly kill me. Scary as hell though.

On another note, there have been times in history when the men have been much bigger peacocks than the women...

Dave