trying to figure out what my mother did

[sand shore]

Hi,

i am trying to get a handle on the story of my childhood and abuse, many 12/21 step programs state it is essential to understand what actually happened (and i have a feeling it is important), i during recent couple of month i had some success with it.

However, there is a thing which puzzles me - weird stuff in my relations with mother. I already know she abused me emotionally, guild-tripped to the death literally etc., both as a child and adult, but i have absolutely no recollection of almost anything prior to age of 5, and she was always super dominant in the way she described my childhood prior to that age as just pure bliss. Well, if it was so great why i can't remember anything but couple of horrible incidents i wonder now..

During my research i found out my mother was a victim of sexual abuse herself - she was seduced into relations with adult man while being a teenager - i know it for a fact - i managed to contact one of her best friends and managed to fish this out of her.

I also remember those things:
- mother was extremely weird about sexuality, for example i asked her about differences between sexes, sex, where babies come from etc, so she convinced me babies are born by the force of mental consent between parents, and there is no physical contact - this is all i had. i was teased to death by other kids. I didn't know men and women have any difference between their legs until i saw my newborn baby-sister - i was eight. I asked - will the penis grow out later, and the laughter and "no" was the answer.

- i remember her doing stuff like clearing my ears and always licking the ear-stick - it was disgusting and creepy, but i always was forced to endure. i felt like a doll she is playing with. now i know it was also extremely bad for my health - i had chronic ear inflammation, was in hospital many times with a lot of painful surgeries - i wonder if there is a connection

- once when i was an adult out of the blue for some reason mother asked me about "one friend of hers" who had a baby boy, but she wanted a girl, so she played with her son dressing him as a girl. What would be your reaction to that she asked. I believe it was the only time in my life she asked something like that. After i said something negative she dropped the subject.

- i was wetting my bed until i was quite old, and there always was a lot of attention, shaming, and public discussions of the matter, that was extremely painful for me. It ended up with, basically, death threats, which worked, yeah. After they forced me to share bed with other children, thinking i will be so ashamed i would not wet by bed.. Recently i was reading about about child abuse and.. wow.. wetting the bed as one of symptoms, interesting.

- when i was teenager she will come into my room in the evening and give me massage on my back - yeah, nothing sexual per se, but sensual for sure.

- she will tell stories like "hahaha, you were so greedy as an infant, i had inflammation of both tits, but you would suck it with all the infected fluid anyway until i had the milk". wooh, just gross.

- oedipus complex, heh. i remember she would talk about me living separately in future WHEN I WAS FIVE! so she basically was saying - soon we will get rid of you, and i replied by talking to her about marrying her (age of 5, i hardly think it was about sex, more about fear of being completely alone) and her being playful about this laughing "ahahaha, but what about your father?". she did an excellent job in antagonizing me and my father - he never liked me and she helped it by forcing me to crave his attention, something he didn't want to give me, so he will punish for being too demanding.

So, uh, i don't know - a lot of shame, and creepy, and weird stuff.

What I am trying to understand now - do i have a reason to believe she mistreated me as an infant and abused me sexually somehow. She definitely treated me as a doll with no concern over my health and safety - that is a fact. Should i just drop it and give up, because of course i will never know for sure - investigation into the past with my mother's friend is impossible in this aspect - she thinks my mother was a saint (of course she does)..

If you have any thoughts - please reply. I am not asking for "oh i am sorry you had a crappy childhood" things, you know, first it kinda doesn't help me feel better - i feel worst, because i know 99.99% people had better childhood (which is good thing, but it makes me feel a worse, less valuable person).

Do you know any books or research papers which look into the child abuse in the early age (before 5)?

Did you may be successfully overcame a similar experience of weird/abusing mother?

I feel very lonely with this experience, separated by shame and humiliation from all others.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Chris4TheMill]

I don't remember much of anything before age 5, except for a few things. So at this point, there's not much I can do with that period of time as far as processing memories.

I question your statement though that 99.99 percent of others had better childhoods than you. It might seem that way to you, but I've read and heard many stories that you would never believe in your worst nightmares. I myself had a psycho mother from hell who tried to murder me when I was 9, among many other things.

Also, by believing this, it only makes you feel more alone. I'm not saying your childhood wasn't bad, because it clearly was. But I also think it can help you feel less alone if you were able to gather more perspective on the range of childhood suffering around the world. Maybe reading some of the stories here will be a good start to your feeling less alone.

 

[Esterio]

Hi sand shore

I do not have the same experience as you. I have read many stories in the last few years about boys being abused by their Mothers. I tell you this so that maybe you can see by reading here that their are many with the same kind of past. You are not alone in this. Thanks for coming and sharing with us it helps us all to share and to listen to others share their experience.

Good luck on your healing journey. This is a good start.

Esterio

 

[Duckie]

Did you may be successfully overcame a similar experience of weird/abusing mother?

I feel very lonely with this experience, separated by shame and humiliation from all others.

Thank you for reading.

deleted

 

[sand shore]

I question your statement though that 99.99 percent of others had better childhoods than you. It might seem that way to you, but I've read and heard many stories that you would never believe in your worst nightmares. I myself had a psycho mother from hell who tried to murder me when I was 9, among many other things.

Well, alright, two things.

First, i don't know why you need to question my statement and compare my bad experience with bad experience of somebody else. Do you want to introduce some kind of badges for suffering or may be you feel i didn't share enough of the filth from my childhood and i kinda do not qualify to have a childhood this is worse than 99.99%, this stance feels like you are minimizing what i wrote, and i dislike that, but it takes me to the second point.
Second, earth population is 7.2 billion people living now, and 0.01 percent of that is 720 000 people. A lot of people with really bad childhood experience, not counting those who had experience so bad they actually just died, never had a chance of being adult and try to sort things out - those cases are very common actually.
So, yes, it is an emotional statement, but why do feel like challenging this point? Do you have exact data on the matter? Do you know my whole story?

It is hard for me to open up and even try to discuss stuff like that, and "look, others also suffer" does not help me. I know others, may be you included, suffer and i want them to get well, but now it's me asking for help.

 

[Esterio]

Hi sand shore

I think the whole reason this place is here is for us to share our experience as a way to heal. Knowing I am not alone has helped me to validate my abuse. Reading others stories and commenting on them is what I hope others are doing with the stuff thatI post. Sorry you do not find that helpful.

I do not know your whole story and you do not know mine but if we continue to talk one day we will know about each other better and very hopeful it has helped us to understand why we are the way we are today.

Sorry if I said anything to upset you. I don't know if there are any real numbers out there. How do they know most of us don't talk or report what has happened.
Esterio

 

[sand shore]

@Esterio, might be some technical issue or something, my previous reply was not directed to you, and i didn't find anything you wrote upsetting in any way, i am grateful for your reaction. I was triggered by reply of Chris4TheMill and tried to express the reasons for it as calmly as i could.

Keeping in mind the topics we are trying to talk here it's natural sometimes the experience will be difficult, but i do not wish to cause any distress to you or anybody else. Sorry if you felt bad about this conversation.

 

[SubtleStuff]

Hi Sand Shore,

I've been meaning to reply for a while but have been overwhelmed myself. Finally, here I am...

i have absolutely no recollection of almost anything prior to age of 5,

Many of my early childhood memories aren't consciously remembered. They are stored in my body. A good book on this phenomenon is Peter Levine's "Trauma and Memory". I've been able to dig up conscious "memory" by researching what was going on in my early youth and seeing how that might have impacted me.

Do you know any books or research papers which look into the child abuse in the early age (before 5)?

My favorite book on Mother-Son Incest is Hani Miletski's Mother-Son Incest. A good book on Adverse Childhood Experiences is Donna Jackson-Nakasawa's Childhood Disrupted

Did you may be successfully overcame a similar experience of weird/abusing mother?

Well, I'm still alive! If that's success then I suppose I've done it. My mother was very odd in many of her behaviours. It's clear to me that there are early childhood traumas and later sexual abuse. The sexual abuse was subtle (no physical contact) and covert (framed as education) making it particularly confusing. My mother doesn't think they happened. She takes no responsibility for the earlier hurts that are much easier to see.
The important thing to me has been to recover from severe health issues. Once I saw the links to past experience I could work on healing those wounds.
I don't think it's so important to remember every detail of the past or even to consciously remember it. It's important that your life today be as resilient, healthy and whole as possible. When one of those is compromised it's good to figure out why and heal in any way you can.
Approaches that I think have potential (because they address body memories very strongly) include Peter Levine's Somatic Experiencing, Pat Ogden's Sensori-motor Psychotherapy and Richard Miller's iRest

I hope this helps,

Cheers,

S

 

[sand shore]

thank you very much for your answer and sharing, it means a lot to me. yes, it is very useful, i actually managed to recollect a lot of information in regards of my past since i have posted, i have found some letters and documents from my mother - omg, that was though.

 

[SubtleStuff]

Hi Sand Shore,

I'm glad what I wrote was helpful to you. Clearing up mother-son trauma is crucial to my recovery. It has had a very powerful effect on my body.

I have found some letters and documents from my mother - omg, that was though.

I have found this approach to be a particularly rich source of information for me too. A great deal of it came through my mother who fortunately was willing to give me some files that showed a great deal about deaths in her life (and my very early childhood) that had been family secrets for many years. I also did alot of research through more formal channels which exposed her distortions quite clearly. Some of those documents gave dates and names that were helpful to me in challenging her victim/martyr/saint stance.

Cheers,

S

 

[barrett23]

Hi,

i am trying to get a handle on the story of my childhood and abuse, many 12/21 step programs state it is essential to understand what actually happened (and i have a feeling it is important), i during recent couple of month i had some success with it.

However, there is a thing which puzzles me - weird stuff in my relations with mother. I already know she abused me emotionally, guild-tripped to the death literally etc., both as a child and adult, but i have absolutely no recollection of almost anything prior to age of 5, and she was always super dominant in the way she described my childhood prior to that age as just pure bliss. Well, if it was so great why i can't remember anything but couple of horrible incidents i wonder now..

During my research i found out my mother was a victim of sexual abuse herself - she was seduced into relations with adult man while being a teenager - i know it for a fact - i managed to contact one of her best friends and managed to fish this out of her.

I also remember those things:
- mother was extremely weird about sexuality, for example i asked her about differences between sexes, sex, where babies come from etc, so she convinced me babies are born by the force of mental consent between parents, and there is no physical contact - this is all i had. i was teased to death by other kids. I didn't know men and women have any difference between their legs until i saw my newborn baby-sister - i was eight. I asked - will the penis grow out later, and the laughter and "no" was the answer.

- i remember her doing stuff like clearing my ears and always licking the ear-stick - it was disgusting and creepy, but i always was forced to endure. i felt like a doll she is playing with. now i know it was also extremely bad for my health - i had chronic ear inflammation, was in hospital many times with a lot of painful surgeries - i wonder if there is a connection

- once when i was an adult out of the blue for some reason mother asked me about "one friend of hers" who had a baby boy, but she wanted a girl, so she played with her son dressing him as a girl. What would be your reaction to that she asked. I believe it was the only time in my life she asked something like that. After i said something negative she dropped the subject.

- i was wetting my bed until i was quite old, and there always was a lot of attention, shaming, and public discussions of the matter, that was extremely painful for me. It ended up with, basically, death threats, which worked, yeah. After they forced me to share bed with other children, thinking i will be so ashamed i would not wet by bed.. Recently i was reading about about child abuse and.. wow.. wetting the bed as one of symptoms, interesting.

- when i was teenager she will come into my room in the evening and give me massage on my back - yeah, nothing sexual per se, but sensual for sure.

- she will tell stories like "hahaha, you were so greedy as an infant, i had inflammation of both tits, but you would suck it with all the infected fluid anyway until i had the milk". wooh, just gross.

- oedipus complex, heh. i remember she would talk about me living separately in future WHEN I WAS FIVE! so she basically was saying - soon we will get rid of you, and i replied by talking to her about marrying her (age of 5, i hardly think it was about sex, more about fear of being completely alone) and her being playful about this laughing "ahahaha, but what about your father?". she did an excellent job in antagonizing me and my father - he never liked me and she helped it by forcing me to crave his attention, something he didn't want to give me, so he will punish for being too demanding.

So, uh, i don't know - a lot of shame, and creepy, and weird stuff.

What I am trying to understand now - do i have a reason to believe she mistreated me as an infant and abused me sexually somehow. She definitely treated me as a doll with no concern over my health and safety - that is a fact. Should i just drop it and give up, because of course i will never know for sure - investigation into the past with my mother's friend is impossible in this aspect - she thinks my mother was a saint (of course she does)..

If you have any thoughts - please reply. I am not asking for "oh i am sorry you had a crappy childhood" things, you know, first it kinda doesn't help me feel better - i feel worst, because i know 99.99% people had better childhood (which is good thing, but it makes me feel a worse, less valuable person).

Do you know any books or research papers which look into the child abuse in the early age (before 5)?

Did you may be successfully overcame a similar experience of weird/abusing mother?

I feel very lonely with this experience, separated by shame and humiliation from all others.

Thank you for reading.

Hi Sand Shore
You are not alone, at the age of 13, I was sexualy abused by my mother in the form of her mastubating me in the bath, as a youngster I had a very tight foreskin and of course when I started to mature it got so sore, instead of taking me to the docs for the crop she thought it best to show me how to stretch the foreskin by regularly pulling it back in the bath sometimes splitting and making it bleed, this particular morning I pulled it back to wash but it got stuck, I was never allowed to lock the bathroom door, I shouted for mums help, In she came naked, soaped up her hand and grabbed hold of my penis.
She went on to masturbate me to errection and telling me " this is what we need to do to stretch that skin" When she was in the bath I was often called in to get something she had forgotten to get, or, to find the soap that ended up between her legs, or, to wash her back for her. She often came into the bathroom while I was in the bath or on the toilet, naked or course.
How long this went on for I don't know my subconscious has hidden it away somewhere, it has taken me some 50 years and two breakdowns to remember this much, my dear mum has been dead for 20 odd years so I can't ask her why, what, when, now at 64 I am starting to feel she must have had a reason for doing these things to me, and causing me to sexualy self harm myself for all these years.
Slowly but surly I am starting to come to terms with it all the hurt is diminishing the self harming is slowing down and I am starting to get my life on track, the one thing that has NEVER changed through all this is I have always loved my dear ole mum and always will.
I think if you can overcome the anger and stop blaming yourself (you weren't to blame you just have to live with it) give yourself time and do things to make yourself feel good, relax, meditate, and any thing else that works, you subconscious in time will give up its secrets and allow you to heal.
Good luck to you take care.

 

[Visitor]

We're kindred spirits Sand Shore which is certainly not something to celebrate. What I've learned about trauma is that when traumatized it is practically impossible for the brain to create an intelligible story of what is happening. Consequently, I don't have a "story" about abuse by my mother, but rather have scattered memories and sensations that when strung together tell a story. I aggregated those many pieces over thirty years ago when in long term therapy. I was trying to make sense of the craziness in my life... unstable relationships because I couldn't tolerate intimacy; sexual acting out in a variety of ways that I interpreted as making me bad. There was a great deal of shame about it all. But while doing that work, I kept encountering these fragments. I eventually dismissed them as causes of my despair, interpreting them simply as my mother's problems.

It was only within the last few months that I came to understand something called "complex trauma." The form of trauma happens when the source of the trauma is the person who would normally be our primary care provider... our mothers in most situations. So when we experience fear and can't go to this person for soothing, we have to dissociate and find ways within our body-mind to manage the fear. It cannot be worked through with mother since she is the cause of it all.

This means that we didn't have the opportunity as infants/children to develop the capacity for managing stress and mobilizing ourselves with confidence that the world is a secure place. To us it was exactly the opposite. I've finally been able to put all of my acting out behaviors into perspective. Yes, I still can explain why my mother could have done such horrible things, but that is very much secondary to the reality I was left completely unprepared for meeting life on life's terms. And I'm doing the work of healing/recovery right now with support from my therapist and this website. I'm learning that, as Subtle Stuff says, that trying to understand the past is really less important than finding a way to live in the present. That seems to be all about learning to care for ourselves, to learn how to regulate our feelings so we're no longer lost in the abuse which happened LONG ago.

You're definitely not alone. It is possible to heal and we won't necessarily ever have a clear picture of what happened. We do know the residue of that past however, in whatever way it manifests for each of us. Since you've begun to explore these matters, I assume there is pain in your life you'd like to move beyond. This is how you do it... Pat Ogden, Peter Levine, Janina Fisher and Bessel van der Kolk are excellent sources of information about early trauma. Good luck sorting it all out... and please use the support that is available here.

 

[TJ jeff]

SS - I'm going to spare you my story and just simply throw out a bit of advice that I hope is helpful to you - I highly recommend that you find a copy of the book Toxic Parents by Dr. Susan Forward - I really believe that if you read this book it may help you to look at things from your childhood in a different perspective that perhaps you are right now