Triggered by the therapy process?

[PRFL]

I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with me and my internal conflict with my T, and now with the center where I receive services in general. Cognitively, I understand they are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Nothing my T or the DBT counselor have said anything abusive or inappropriate, yes, a couple of remarks here and there may have been thoughtless, but nothing that will rise to a 5-alarm level. Whatever it is, seems to me that they are getting uncomfortably close to a core issue. The only thing that I can speculate about is that the very process of them going "by the book" is in itself re-traumatizing, and I'm trying to understand why. I think it may have to do with my history of seeing countless T's about my SSA only to be ignored and not helped and instead being sold on the idea that I was born gay (I wasn't) and that I should accept this as my orientation. The thing is, I'm not sure that's a core issue being that this struggle with T's happened during my early adulthood. Then again, it was a very frustrating time in my life and I wound up caving in several times, having same-sex relationships and being promiscuous, none of which I actually wanted. Looking back, I feel cheated out of my core identity, first by my mother, then the bullies, then the molestation, then by T's that were doing what they were supposed to be doing, which was to "help me overcome homophobia" and totally missing the reason I was asking for their help which was SSA.
Problem with this speculation is that these particular T and counselor are NOT trying to sell me on anything like getting me to "accept" that being gay is my identity. I do think they don't totally get it, but they seem to try and I'm fine with that. But there is something about them following protocol that absolutely is sending me off the rails. I think it may be because I feel so unheard, like my prior T's, and earlier on in my life, by everybody that didn't hear my protests when I was being abused and bullied.
I'll see my DBT counselor later this week, and I'm absolutely dreading it. Not dreading her, but the process itself. It feels like I'm being stuffed into a box against my wishes.
I hope this makes any sense. I just woke up from a panic attack and I'm trying to capture my thoughts before I forget them.

 

[KMCINVA]

PRFL

I am sorry so many let you down. Most people do not understand SSA and the imprint of one's first sexual experience at ages where the mind is not mature to understand sexual experiences. For many the thoughts of the abuse are overwhelming and leave a sense of shame and guilt. It can create a sense SSA is who we truly are because why did he pick me, did he know me better than the other boys and what I wanted. All self created dialogue to help to understand what we experienced. We did not have minds capable of deciphering what happened. Sadly many doctors, nurses and T's do not understand the trauma of CSA, let alone the many dynamics surrounding SSA. For some people who experience SSA their true orientation is gay, bi, fluid or whatever other label is used today. They should be happy with themselves. For others, the imprint is so great that the survivor believes "maybe" that is who he truly is--why the boy was aroused during the abuse creating internal conflict, or the survivor has a need to control what happened by re-enacting, reliving. Coping in this manner may temporarily relieve the pain but it is not healing. Whatever the reason, you will know your true orientation--what brings you passion, satisfaction--a man, a woman or maybe both. For me, I struggled with figuring out who I was because of what others said I did during dissociation. It was so confusing because in a dissociative fugue state memory does not return once I left that state. In time I met a wonderful woman who made me feel safe as I healed. She enabled me to find the pleasures, joy and fulfillment of sex. I believe healing was a major part of this discovery. It is a struggle for many.

When we deal or hear people in the medical profession espouse ignorance while portraying themselves as knowledgeable it only further destroys the survivor, brings the survivor greater confusion. Remember you are not alone. If you are with competent T's in the area of trauma and CSA you will begin to uncover as you said, everything you packed in a box. I found therapy to be unsettling because I was unpacking the box very slowly. I would say to my T, I always felt worse at the end of the sessions. He would explain because I was facing the past and pain I long denied. It sounds like you are unpacking. Talk to your T about these emotions.

Kevin

 

[Visitor]

I'm sorry this is as difficult as it appears to be in the moment, but honestly, it is a bit of relief to read both of you since I too have struggled with these questions... what I call both sexual orientation and gender orientation. Am I gay or straight? Am I a man or a woman? While it is clear to me now, along the way it was both confusing and painful. My first therapist was referred to me by a gender orientation therapy center... a butch lesbian who smoked during our sessions together. At the very least I was able to tell her the truth about my behavior, but, alas, we never were able to find the roots of my pain. That came years later when with EMDR I began finding the sexual abuse I experienced as a boy. It made it all more understandable, though it didn't allow me to work through the feelings associated with that or earlier trauma.

I've always love the Rilke quote that speaks about "living our way to an answer" to life's big questions. Those of us still working with these early painful memories really need patience and compassion as we proceed. For myself, I've been drawn to a form of therapy that believes the most important work is stabilizing the client... me... and giving me the tools as an adult to work with traumatized material when it arises. We know the abuse happened a long time ago and that the trauma reaction stems from those days. Consequently, there is NOT a premium placed on re-experiencing that abuse as happens so often in therapy. This is a radical change from what I experienced decades ago. There is a much greater understanding of how trauma affects the brain, and therapies have been developed that allow the brain to heal so we don't feel overwhelmed by those early feelings as they are evoked by present life.

I guess all of this is to say, please be gentle with yourself as you do this work. We're all learning how to claim our aliveness and that means learning how to care for even the most frightened, confused parts of ourselves with compassion and tenderness. We are NOT a problem to solve. We deserve love and kindness from ourselves and those we invite to be part of our lives. All the best to you.

 

[PRFL]

Thanks,
part of my conflict with my current T is that he is supposedly a "trauma-informed" therapist at a center for victims of abuse and assault. He has been very careful and methodical which I find both reassuring and maddening. The reassuring part is because obviously he's been very careful about doing things ethically and is not merely winging it, but on the other hand, it's driving me crazy because I feel I'm being treated according to guidelines, not so much according to what I need.
Our latest point of conflict that illustrates this has been a tug of war (very friendly, I must say) about his use of the term "emotional dysregulation". From his viewpoint, he is absolutely right and acurrate and is doing exactly the right thing by referring me to DBT. On the other hand, I feel that my emotions are being pathologized and labeled as something that needs to be fixed, not something that needs to be recognized and helped in healing. Because I know that clinically he is right, I gave up and will submit to the DBT, and I'm trying my best to keep an open mind, but that part of me that is scared and unheard is feeling profoundly invalidated and defeated because its efforts to assert itself have led nowhere.
I met with the DBT counselor already once and she made the mistake of saying that "this is going back to school so you can learn" and it so happens that school is where I got publicly bullied, so when I pointed this out, she said, OK, how about going to college? and I said OK, but it was too late. I got triggered over this to the point I was severely suicidal the next day, which is why I decided to take matters into my own hands and get started on medication. So it doesn't do a whole lot for my confidence that this has gone so far.
I feel conflicted because I truly don't know how much these professionals actually know, and they are truly dedicated and are really to try to help me and so many others. One part of my abuse was (and my T knows this very well) that my anger was never taken seriously, and here I am again not being taken seriously, being told to go back to school because the intensity of my feelings is pathological.
So I keep going back and forth with this, ad nauseum. I'm waiting for the Paxil to fully kick in so at least I can stop obsessing about this (which is, really emotional dysregulation and I do need help with this). I meet with her again in a couple of days, let's see what transpires in that meeting.
Obviously, I'm getting in touch with some really deep, core issues so the fact that they are trying to give me skills to manage my emotions is absolutely the right thing to do.
I'm a confused mess right now, can you tell?
Thanks for the feedback.

 

[PRFL]

We are NOT a problem to solve. We deserve love and kindness from ourselves and those we invite to be part of our lives. All the best to you.

Thanks, Visitor, that pretty much sums up what I'm trying to say in my response to Kevin.

 

[F.A.]

@PRFL I would say the fact that you have reactions to the T and the method means you are fully committed to healing and engaged. Could also be that the slow method is not the quick fix we all look for with our issues. I do know one thing we are not a bunch of boxes you stick labels on we are a whole and complete human being who has yet to discover all of himself. Keep up the good work and the good fight.

 

[PRFL]

@PRFL I would say the fact that you have reactions to the T and the method means you are fully committed to healing and engaged. Could also be that the slow method is not the quick fix we all look for with our issues. I do know one thing we are not a bunch of boxes you stick labels on we are a whole and complete human being who has yet to discover all of himself. Keep up the good work and the good fight.

It's most certainly not a quick fix and I knew that, but this is tearing me apart and is killing me, I can only hope to hang in there before I get a stroke, heart attack or go totally nuts.

 

[F.A.]

@PRFL you are in my prayers man

 

[PRFL]

Thanks!
I'm in a better place today (so far, although that seems to change a lot throughout the day). I think my medication is starting to work. I really get where my T and counselors are coming from. I also think that I should have been on medication all along, because things were just not working and I've been getting worse. One more realization is that, whatever happens in therapy and counseling, it has to work for me, because I'm their client and they work for me. So, the focus should not be on whether the guidelines are followed (as useful as they might be), but whether it works for me or not.

 

[PRFL]

@PRFL you are in my prayers man

Thanks! Much appreciated!

 

[seeking_wholenes]

Reading this...you sound like you're in a more helpful place today. Your T/s ought to work for you, with you, in ways that work better/best for you.

 

[bluesky]

Our latest point of conflict that illustrates this has been a tug of war (very friendly, I must say) about his use of the term "emotional dysregulation". From his viewpoint, he is absolutely right and acurrate and is doing exactly the right thing by referring me to DBT. On the other hand, I feel that my emotions are being pathologized and labeled as something that needs to be fixed, not something that needs to be recognized and helped in healing.

Hi.
For some reason this is how most therapists operate. They tend to label and treat, instead of listening and being compassionate. They mean well but as I have learned they don’t get what makes us me feel safe. I can’t surrender to a process it don’t trust the process. That’s one of the reasons I had to look for a therapist that is willing to not treat me or tell me or push any agenda even good ones like 12 steps. I also had a problem with is use of terminology like “arousal template “
“lust” and other terms that I don’t remember. I also couldn’t get angry in his office if I raised my voice he would shut me down. I think that’s do to something that he has to deal with in his own emotional life.
My current therapist never told me that I had any diagnosis he just listened he guided and continues to without controlling the session. I don’t feel that he is judging me. With my past therapist it was different he was nice he was well meaning but didn’t really get me. Since I have switched I am more stable and see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I’m not saying you should look for a new therapist but I would have discussion with your therapist if possible about what is bothering you. See if he will adapt to your needs. But one thing I will say your needs are real. Your voice and concerns are real. You and I believe all of us need to feel safe, heard,comforted and respected especially by professionals. We are not damaged goods that are to be just managed. Or at least that vibe should never come through to us.
I wish you peace and healing. Hope this is helpful.

 

[PRFL]

Thanks, Bluesky,
He definitely means well, which makes it harder for me to be angry. If he was being a total jerk I would have walked out of his office long time ago. Besides, he DOES have a point about me having a problem with dysregulation, so it's hard for me to argue with that. And he DOES try, as in trying to understand my issues around SSA, which I think he gets partially. It seemed to me he couldn't comprehend why I would feel that I was worthless when it came to women and how much my hetero identity was shamed and humiliated, but I think he's starting to get it.
It seems to me like it's an example of the old adage "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail"
Another thing that occurs to me is a transactional issue: he as a parent is talking to me as an adult, but the child is the real patient here and he's not feeling heard. My adult self completely understands and hears what the "parent" is saying, but my child self is having none of it, hence the conflict. So we keep crossing our wires and not hearing each other. My child doesn't give a damn about "emotional dysregulation", he cares that he's hurt and afraid and in pain and those big labels aren't helping, and that's the point, they need to help.
My T won't see me for a few more weeks as we both agreed, in the meantime, I'll see the DBT counselor and see what transpires there, but I'm not very optimistic.
I did call another therapist just to inquire on treatment, he seemed friendly and receptive (but so did my current T), so at least I know I have a place to go (further away, and more expensive, but I'll have to do). I also want to make sure that I try this current arrangement and do my part, so I know that I'm not just running away because I'm uncomfortable (thus avoiding necessary growing pains), but because it truly wasn't working for me.

 

[Tack]

I've noticed something in this conversation. A lot of it comes down to how counselors are functioning. Part of my own journey has involved trying to find someone who will just listen, let me get it out, let my bounce ideas of someone because it is MY healing journey, not theirs. SO what I did was my own form of CBT to find out if I could look at things from different perspectives since counseling seemed like a dead-end repetitive cycle of some hearing, (not listening, but hearing,) then labeling, then telling me what I 'needed" to do to get "fixed." So I took a course a couple courses in counselling. Here's part of what I learned:

The first step is LISTENING. Listening is an active process, not a passive one. It involves paying attention, empathizing, reflecting back that we are following what we are being told, clarifying, and asking if we are understanding correctly. It's called facilitative skills and involves letting a person tell their story from their perspective. It is a step I find a lot of counselors cannot do because they do not truly compassionate or empathetic--its a job to a lot of them. As well, a lot of the counselors we talk too have never experienced what survivors have experienced. One reason, from my perspective, is that the traumatic effects are often barriers to our moving forward to reach a level an academic level of competence to be recognized as professional counselors, to help people like ourselves. What we end up with is many counselors not being able to relate, experientially, to the cause/effect relationship, so they go by book learning and cookie-cutter plans to "fix" us and make us "normal," like them. Counseling is NOT about fixing people, it is about helping/guiding people in their problem-solving probelm...theirs, not the counselors. It's about sharing the tools for people to look at their feelings, emotions, reactions, as identifiable problems/conflicts from THEIR perspective, then letting them pick a side in their particular internal conflict, letting them determine their goals, then guiding them in seeking paths to reach their goals--not telling them what to do, but informing about what options are out there that they may not have considered or may not know about. It is the person receiving the counseling that picks their goals and paths, not the counselor. But it all starts with active listening, and being able to demonstrate understanding until the person seeking counseling feels the counselor is understanding and has listened. Myself, I do not go to counseling to be fixed; I go to counseling because I sometimes need to voice my feelings and bounce ideas off another human being. If I feel they are not listening, or not understanding, I say so and do not let them proceed to advice stages until they get it. I've made several counselors sit back and be silent when I confront them and say "I do not feel like you are listening and that you do not understand when I am trying to say."

Now that I know what a counselor should be doing, it is easier to see when I am not truly being listened to, when a counselor truly does not understand, and when the are trying to use a cookie-cutter approach to "fix" me. I have learned that, when I go to see a counselor, I am in charge of the process, not them. They are more of a spirit guide than anything who should be an extra set of eyes and ears, who should be seeing things from OUR perspective, OUR values, and offering alternative perspectives and options for OUR consideration. They should never label us or tell us what to do. Lastly, I will never again go to see a counselor who has not, themselves, had experiences in our world that they have dealt with themselves. It is analogous to a life-long celibate priest giving behavioral parenting advice to a mother.

But all of that is just IMO.

 

[Tack]

Sorry for all the typos...I recently crashed an burned and am still triggered too easily. It seems my stutter when triggered translates into my keyboarding skills. I think to fast, then type too fast, and do not always pay attention to see if what I typed was what I meant to say. My bad, sorry.

 

[PRFL]

Thanks, Tack, very useful feedback, and I didn't notice any typos. You must definitely "get it" and it's so frustrating that people that are supposedly trained in this don't, even when they are obviously trying.

 

[Strangeways]

PRFL, if you're not getting what you need out of a therapist, you are absolutely in the right to switch. The more I read, the more I think you may need to. Your therapist might be the best therapist in the world, but if he isn't the right fit for you personally, you're going to get nowhere.

It takes time to trust, but some people, for whatever reason, we're never going to be able to trust enough to work with. Your current therapist should be able to refer you out. If I were you, I'd do it now, before you waste any more time.

Just my two cents.

 

[PRFL]

Thanks, Strangeways,
Switching is definitely on the table for me, and I already talked to one therapist outside the agency, so I know I have options.
My dilemma is that I have a long history of running away from uncomfortable situations, some of them abusive, but some of them not, and looking back, I wish I had been able to stay and work through the discomfort of a non-abusive situation. My current T is definitely non-abusive, and he does make lots of valid points. I don't want to cheat myself out of the opportunity of learning to deal with conflict, because if I can't do this with my T, how can I deal with a real-life conflict?

So, for now, since my medication is already helping me, I think I can stick it out. The current plan is for me to do the DBT and then go back to my T in a few weeks, we already have two appointments scheduled (5 weeks apart), and I want to see where I'm at when I go through the DBT and once the medication fully kicks in.

My T is making absolutely clear that it is fine for me to be angry at him, even for me to go to his supervisor and the program director, his concern about my emotional dysregulation is very legitimate and I can see how it would be hard for him to give me any feedback if I'm going to jump and need to be peeled off the ceiling for any innocent remark. I think he's wise about stepping back and having someone else deal with the DBT, as he doesn't want to add more triggers when I'm already overloaded. It would be abusive if he insisted in more frequent meetings, or point blank giving up on me and abandoning me, none of which he's done.

So, once I do the 6 weeks of DBT (actually, I'll see him before it's finished but at least I'll have a better idea on where I'm at), then I can try broaching my gripes with him. So I see a potential for learning to grow and deal successfully with a conflict without running away, but also knowing that if nothing works, that I have options. On the other side, I also have a story of clinging on to abusive situations for fear of not being able to find someone else, so I also need to feel confident that I can handle the emotions of walking away from a conflict that is hurting me, without feeling defeated. So, there's the conflict with my T, but probably more importantly is the conflict within myself. Since DBT is supposed to be tailored precisely to this inner conflict, it makes sense to me that I give it a try.

So, either I'm being perseverant in trying to work through an issue, or I'm just rationalizing. Or maybe a combination of both. Being that I'm not clear on which, I think it's better to hang in there instead of making a decision of breaking the relationship that I cannot undo.

Tomorrow I see the DBT counselor. I'm angry and plan to tell her exactly why, let's see how SHE handles that.
I'm sure I'll have plenty of things to report here tomorrow. I can only hope it's good.

 

[PRFL]

One more thing that I forgot to add:
I've been noticing that my mood and my attitude about this whole issue is fluctuating a lot throughout the day, I may be feeling insanely angry about it at times, but at other times I'm feeling very positive, and I'm not sure why this is happening, as there's no apparent trigger, rhyme or reason to it. It happens several times a day, but I'm probably more prone to post about it when I'm upset. I'm trying to observe these fluctuations, and I'm wondering if there's something going on subconsciously that is starting to emerge, so I'm trying to observe and see if I can figure out what the inner battle is really about. It's definitely not about my T, it seems to me (at this particular moment, anyway, I may feel different 1/2 hour from now, who knows!)

 

[PRFL]

Update:
Saw the DBT counselor today. I was a wreck, so to her credit, she listened. I feel heard. She is concerned whether her center could provide the level of care that I need and perhaps I should pursue an IOP, because I've been having suicidal thoughts, however I assured her that I have no intentions of doing so because I want to live and heal. I explained my whole frustration with the dynamics with my T, and she heard me, which is something I really needed. So, while she is concerned, we agreed to meet again next week to give the DBT a try and I'm OK with that. Being that I've been on the medication for only one week, I can imagine that hopefully I'll be doing better by then.