Trained To Not Make Choices (possibly triggering)

Trained To Not Make Choices (possibly triggering)

Celtaf

Registrant
I had a realization last week that I was brought up not to make choices except in a limited range. Like in the sense of "I am offering you ice cream. Chocolate or vanilla?"

When I was a child, for instance, I had no choice when my ranting crazy mother demanded her visitation, screaming at the door. I remember that occasion vividly. Without excuse for being hours late, by which time I had wanted to stay with my dad, who made other plans.

I had no choice when my father remarried, insisted.that I call the new woman mother, and was often left alone with this abusive and cruel woman. I had no choice when she insisted that I not focus on areas of study I was interested in. I had no choice when, on long car trips, she insisted that I sit still without activity. I could not tell my father that I was not safe. At school I had no choice but to either be bullied or react viciously in response. The teachers and counsellors were useless. Those in my family could not protect me. My father, who was away for work a lot, was ignorant and just wanted his family to get along. I did not have the choice to tell him the truth, because I knew he would not listen.

Because this became so ingrained, and because I could see people around me were either willfully ignorant, malicious, indifferent or helpless, I tried to just get lost in books while always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I knew explanations never led to understanding for mistakes or confusion, just to punishment and accusations of lying. This is why, when my father was on a business trip, I was in a dark basement while my stepmother had a dinner party. I was often kept hungry so I crept up out of the basement after she had gone to bed and ate the remains of the dinner from the trash. Again, I had little sense of choice.

When my stepmother accused me of sexually abusing my half sister, I desperately denied it. I could not defend myself. When I was sent to the mental ward, my examiners never even tried to believe me. For months I denied it until I was told that I wouldn't be able to go home unless I confessed. I was told that I was in denial of what I had done. That I had to confess to the group of other youth I was with, since I was in my early teens at that time. I felt I had no choice.

Later, this went on and on. At times I look back and see a ghost of what my life could have been. But the main thing is that I was never brought up to choose, learn to fail or succeed. I'm trying to move my life together, attending university, but in reality I'm just plugging along. In many respects nothing has changed, I've simply gotten better at keeping it together. I live very deliberately but it is still very hard to make choices.

I have realized that the exhaustion I feel at school is partly because I am sad that I missed so much, and that many opportunities are gone. Part of it too is that I don't really have any passion save one: to help and encourage others affected by injustice. The problem is that that concern as a wider movement has no real commitment to justice. They are generally biased in favour of acceptable victims, so I hate being around them.

But as I say, I was not raised to make choices, so I need to find a way forward. It is exhausting living by courage and steadfastness alone.
 
I'm so sorry that this has been your experience. But it certainly rings a bell. I think it is quite common for us traumatized men to have been the victims of personal authoritarianism.

My parents were strict and dogmatic Catholics. I was ordered to be seen, not heard, and any negative emotion I expressed was immediately put down. I grew up learning men were predators and women were gatekeepers, which certainly paved the way for my eventual domestic abuse.

You are certainly a courageous individual. I'm new here, so I have to ask, are you working with a therapist? I've found therapy to be so freeing to myself emotionally and it has helped set my life on a new path.
 
Strangeways said:
I'm so sorry that this has been your experience. But it certainly rings a bell. I think it is quite common for us traumatized men to have been the victims of personal authoritarianism.

My parents were strict and dogmatic Catholics. I was ordered to be seen, not heard, and any negative emotion I expressed was immediately put down. I grew up learning men were predators and women were gatekeepers, which certainly paved the way for my eventual domestic abuse.

You are certainly a courageous individual. I'm new here, so I have to ask, are you working with a therapist? I've found therapy to be so freeing to myself emotionally and it has helped set my life on a new path.

Unfortunately I do not. I am on a limited budget and I used up the men's resource centres counselling. I also used up my sessions covered by my health insurance. I'm trying to use mindfulness practice.

I'm sorry to hear that you were also raised to be more vulnerable to abuse. And thank you, I hope you find yourself very welcomed here.
 
Hi Celtaf and Strangways,

I've noticed your discussion, because I too have been in this and am involved in trying to work on myself. It was yesterday that I had an EMDR session to seek some balance (Window of Tolerance), my survival mode, deep lack of self worth, and the list goes on.

That session involved trying to keep me present with how I do have some way to connect with others and try to see if there is any way to do the simple things of being a friend, or family member (if that's safe?). The next step was to manage staying present with myself, as I looked into the eyes of me at age 6 (from a drawing I had done last week). I was managing losses of attuning to my caregiver emotionally (mom), which amounted to emotional neglect that left me feeling like it didn't matter if I existed. It has been a lifetime that I don't matter. It cracked my inner self to pieces and I had nothing to gather me up again.

The session was to have me look into the eyes of my 6 year old self, and my therapist was kind and encouraging through about 4 sessions if EMDR (using finger movement for my eyes to follow). It was really hard to stay present, but eventually she got me to about the 5th round. She tried to get me to make my way toward myself in that picture I drew, which had me curled up on the floor of the house we lived in when I was 6. I think about the 6th round my therapist had convinced me to pick myself up with blanket and then choose something to do. I chose to go make soup for me at 6, while me at 57 held me at 6 in a blanket, and walked to the kitchen. I had a hard time thinking about setting myself at 6 down to make the soup, so I just made it with one hand. My therapist kidded me that now there are carriers for toddlers, but at just turning 6, I was probably near 4 feet already. Maybe only 50 of so pounds, bust still big. Anyway, I did manage to like carrying myself at 6 in that blanket and making myself soup and a butter and grape jelly sandwich. I think I can manage to figure out doing that at home now, and I think I'm going to like it? I hope so.

The reason I wrote the above is to show something that therapy does, but for Celtaf and others whom I read all the time don't have a therapist at present or at all, that there are some small steps to move forward. I think the first is to read this next link:

Recovery with a good cry = Giving ourselves permission for moderate self pity


I think all of us have some aversion to thinking about self pity? I've thought that I'm being a wimp, and more of a failure because I do cry for my pain all the time. But here's the thing, I don't cry all the time, it's just when I'm doing the work of looking deep into myself that it happens, or I'm triggered. I do have a lot of crying triggers, and most of them have to do with harm to children or anything about sexual assault or rape. These topics just bother my inner sense of peace too much. These are beyond my coping within the "Window of Tolerance".

I don't want to sidetrack and explain "Window of Tolerance", I will look for my thread about it and link it if I can find it. I'll do that later.

This link from Pete Walker has other links in there that have helped me and I have some of the links to that page in other posts I've done here at MS. I want to make that as a kind of disclaimer that the page I link isn't just out of the blue, I've been referencing it for almost a year. It's only now, in my current therapy that the link to "Self Pity" is good for us that I finally have read it and this if my first time linking this particular page from therapist Walker.

What I really want is to find more things that give us advantages to doing self help. Things beyond just mindfulness. I know there has to be more self help out there, and I don't just want them in books. Though I can find books all the time. I don't have any money, so books don't help me. Links with lists of how to do things, or actual apps I can run to do some safe thing to keep calm and interact with my inner child are what I want.

I've found, and I note that many guys on here have written it's very hard to interact with our inner child. The thing to do is to be safe and if that's not possible, the self help shouldn't be tried, or at least not yet. It's all a process, it's got to be in an orderly fashion, where some things are set up first so that when something that's really painful comes along, it's not going to sabotage what's already been done. That's where compartmentalization comes into this.

I haven't done a link for that, it seems to be a common understanding when I write about it, but I can't take it for granted that new people know, or even some of us who've been around a while know? Compartmentalization techniques come in a variety of methods, so I think a Google search for anyone interested is what should be best. Even what I discuss, I think Googling for yourself is good. Do most of you even read my posts that are so dang long, it's just tedious and boring? I can't know unless I have feedback, and I really want feedback badly. If that's Ok with you, please mention anything that resonates with you and what you do, how you do it, if you care about doing it? So, thanks for being here, and if you read all this.
 
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Wow, thanks for that detailed post, Ceremony. It's crazy, but I JUST ran across that Pete Walker article a few days ago! I read it and was astounded. It's like he was there as my father berated me as a boy when I would cry, saying, "Now you're just feeling sorry for yourself!"

For many years I was so angry at myself as a child. There is no denying that I wished I could straight-up murder my inner child. I fantasized about someone killing me when I was a child, to spare myself as an adult from all the pain I felt.

Slowly, working with my therapist, I was able to look at my child objectively and was able to see that he was blameless. I tried, haltingly at first, to say nice things to him. At first they were lies - I still wanted him to suffer. Slowly, the nice things I said became true. Slowly, I began to tolerate my child. And finally, one day I hugged my inner child and told him that I loved him and was so sorry he had been hurt and that I would protect him. I cried so much that day.

It is possible to do. I have done it. It was very worth it. Now I'm working on sorting out all the other parts of myself who were betrayed along the way. It's really difficult. It's been trying. I have no doubt that it's worth it.
https://selfleadership.org/about-internal-family-systems.html
 
Ceremony said:
Hi Celtaf and Strangways,

I've noticed your discussion, because I too have been in this and am involved in trying to work on myself. It was yesterday that I had an EMDR session to seek some balance (Window of Tolerance), my survival mode, deep lack of self worth, and the list goes on.

That session involved trying to keep me present with how I do have some way to connect with others and try to see if there is any way to do the simple things of being a friend, or family member (if that's safe?). The next step was to manage staying present with myself, as I looked into the eyes of me at age 6 (from a drawing I had done last week). I was managing losses of attuning to my caregiver emotionally (mom), which amounted to emotional neglect that left me feeling like it didn't matter if I existed. It has been a lifetime that I don't matter. It cracked my inner self to pieces and I had nothing to gather me up again.

The session was to have me look into the eyes of my 6 year old self, and my therapist was kind and encouraging through about 4 sessions if EMDR (using finger movement for my eyes to follow). It was really hard to stay present, but eventually she got me to about the 5th round. She tried to get me to make my way toward myself in that picture I drew, which had me curled up on the floor of the house we lived in when I was 6. I think about the 6th round my therapist had convinced me to pick myself up with blanket and then choose something to do. I chose to go make soup for me at 6, while me at 57 held me at 6 in a blanket, and walked to the kitchen. I had a hard time thinking about setting myself at 6 down to make the soup, so I just made it with one hand. My therapist kidded me that now there are carriers for toddlers, but at just turning 6, I was probably near 4 feet already. Maybe only 50 of so pounds, bust still big. Anyway, I did manage to like carrying myself at 6 in that blanket and making myself soup and a butter and grape jelly sandwich. I think I can manage to figure out doing that at home now, and I think I'm going to like it? I hope so.

The reason I wrote the above is to show something that therapy does, but for Celtaf and others whom I read all the time don't have a therapist at present or at all, that there are some small steps to move forward. I think the first is to read this next link:

Recovery with a good cry = Giving ourselves permission for moderate self pity


I think all of us have some aversion to thinking about self pity? I've thought that I'm being a wimp, and more of a failure because I do cry for my pain all the time. But here's the thing, I don't cry all the time, it's just when I'm doing the work of looking deep into myself that it happens, or I'm triggered. I do have a lot of crying triggers, and most of them have to do with harm to children or anything about sexual assault or rape. These topics just bother my inner sense of peace too much. These are beyond my coping within the "Window of Tolerance".

I don't want to sidetrack and explain "Window of Tolerance", I will look for my thread about it and link it if I can find it. I'll do that later.

This link from Pete Walker has other links in there that have helped me and I have some of the links to that page in other posts I've done here at MS. I want to make that as a kind of disclaimer that the page I link isn't just out of the blue, I've been referencing it for almost a year. It's only now, in my current therapy that the link to "Self Pity" is good for us that I finally have read it and this if my first time linking this particular page from therapist Walker.

What I really want is to find more things that give us advantages to doing self help. Things beyond just mindfulness. I know there has to be more self help out there, and I don't just want them in books. Though I can find books all the time. I don't have any money, so books don't help me. Links with lists of how to do things, or actual apps I can run to do some safe thing to keep calm and interact with my inner child are what I want.

I've found, and I note that many guys on here have written it's very hard to interact with our inner child. The thing to do is to be safe and if that's not possible, the self help shouldn't be tried, or at least not yet. It's all a process, it's got to be in an orderly fashion, where some things are set up first so that when something that's really painful comes along, it's not going to sabotage what's already been done. That's where compartmentalization comes into this.

I haven't done a link for that, it seems to be a common understanding when I write about it, but I can't take it for granted that new people know, or even some of us who've been around a while know? Compartmentalization techniques come in a variety of methods, so I think a Google search for anyone interested is what should be best. Even what I discuss, I think Googling for yourself is good. Do most of you even read my posts that are so dang long, it's just tedious and boring? I can't know unless I have feedback, and I really want feedback badly. If that's Ok with you, please mention anything that resonates with you and what you do, how you do it, if you care about doing it? So, thanks for being here, and if you read all this.

What is an EMDR session?

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think you have touched upon an important part of the issue for me: I have little connection with my young self. What you described sounded very personal and while interesting when looked at objectively it made me cringe to imagine doing it myself. You said it was difficult to do, did you find it distressing, uncomfortable in particular? The detail of something simple like soup is a nice idea. You said slowly--about how long did it take? I imagine ti can be different for different people.

My father did a very kind thing for me a couple of years ago. He bought a number of the same kind of toys my stepmother had had sold at a garage sale because she decided I shouldn't have them. There was no discussion, just sold them. I may have experienced something similar to you by having them, because it reminded me that there had been a time when I was a child playing with toys and had been happy. I probably would have sold them or given them naturally in time.

The points made in your link make a lot of sense, and it is hard to work on aplying them to myself. Thank you for your post. I don' think it is too long.
 
Celtaf,

I can totally relate to your childhood experiences. It sounds like you had alot of injustice done to you. That one story about having to eat from the garbage after your stepmother threw a party for her friends was pretty awful. I know from experience that mothers and stepmothers can be evil, when they should be nurturing and supportive. Instead of helping us develop, they kept us stunted. The good news is that we it is not too late for our true selves to develop, they don't have to get the last word.

Your other story about the garage sale is one that I have never heard from anyone else before, what a surprise. I thought I was the only one. I had a prized collection of robots and other toys that my mother "decided" to sell in a garage sale, without having the decency to tell me what she was doing. I was living with my dad at the time so didn't know what she did until later. I have one robot left from all of that. It is sitting on my shelf. I am not so much attached to the robot any longer, or any toys, but it is a reminder of what I survived with her. Obviously she did worse than that, but that one really hurt because it sent a strong message of "your feelings are not important to me. I can do whatever I want without regard to how it is affecting you."

Other people have sent that same message in various ways. I try to avoid such people as much as possible and find others that are not as emotionally tone-deaf.
 
Thank you. I'm having a lot of difficulty responding. I often feel emotionally frozen after mentioning stuff like this. It is strange, almost like trying to explain I was abducted by aliens. However I appreciate your response a lot. Once said it sometimes does not feel real.
 
Ceremony said:
Hello Celtaf, I hope you've time and emotional energy to browse this thread I've worked on since 1/27/17?

EMDR

Interesting. This is the first I've ever heard of this practice. It sounds tiring. Is it?
 
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