to be lifted up, held and protected

[seachange]

Did you ever feel you wanted to be taken away from everything bad, where it's extinguished, disappeared? Sometimes I long to be lifted up, out of it all, just held and protected. Rocked.

I feel these things without words. They're not really adult thoughts, but I feel them. The T says they're a young child's. Leftovers. Mine. Me.

I don't like feeling and thinking this. It comes with shaking and crying terror and bad memories. I've tried hard my whole life not to feel this. I can't keep it away any longer. They aren't the right thoughts, adult men don't feel this, it's foolish, childish, it's not manly. But I have them. They feel like they're destroying me, but then they don't.

I know there is no extinguishing the past, and I know no one is going to save me. But a child doesn't. Maybe I needed to believe that it just might be possible. Despite everything bad and hopeless, I still longed and believed. I have no other way to account for it.

I bet people will say it's not good to stay feeling this. Clinging to this doesn't help me be an adult, a man. It keeps me from seeing other ways to go. I know. I can see how this left me open to people who hurt me and used me. Even now I think this keeps me going back to old ways.

I'm afraid that if I let go of this I'm leaving the only thing I have. I afraid if I don't, I'll be left behind alone.

Have you ever felt this?

 

[Duckie]

deleted

 

[usmc97]

They aren't the right thoughts, adult men don't feel this, it's foolish, childish, it's not manly. But I have them.

You are not alone in that feeling. I have those thoughts too. I do have to disagree with them being "foolish." I also don't see them as "leftovers" because we didn't have those things or not enough for the horrible things we went through.

I have to say that "childish" doesn't necessarily mean something is bad. We missed out on a lot of stuff kids are supposed to have. I don't fight it, it's a need NOT a want. Luckily, I have a couple friends who don't mind just holding on to me once in a while, helping me feel safe and protected. I even get a hug sometimes and I just melt, my friend takes on all the weight, it hurts, sometimes really painful but there is a lot inside that needs a release.

In talking to myself, WE ARE MEN and have nothing more to prove. I'm behind in so many near unbelievable ways, as some of the guys here know. Because of that, I feel lonely and out of place a lot of the time, but deep down I know I have brothers here.

If none of that speaks to you, I can try to pull this card... I don't care what anybody tells you, a Marine told you it's manly.

 

[seachange]

iaccus: thank you so much, it's nice to know I'm not alone.
usmc97: The Marine card carries a lot of weight. I know my ideas of what's manly have to change. Thank you. It means a lot.
Getting hugs.... being touched at all used to be possible only when I'm drunk or high or dissociating. Finding safe positive touch today, that seems impossible but I don't want to say that. I'm glad to hear you have those good hugs/people. Sounds so good.
Feeling lonely & out of place, bingo. There is a lot inside me that needs releasing, and I think it's just flooding out now. It's heavy.
But it's hopeful to know you have good brothers here. I hear that a lot here. I'm starting to believe it could be true for me too.

 

[Shyshark]

Hi seachange ...

Are you aware of the 'inner child' concept?

I believe that in each of us there is a hurt little boy ... and I don't care how old he was ...
who just wants to be loved ... in the right way ... and you can do that for him.
Unconditionally.
You can rescue him from his loneliness ... and he can rescue you from yours.

A few years back I started a little campaign to convince guys to use a picture of themselves when they were a child ...
as their avatar.
There were only a few at the time ... and now there are many.
I like to believe that this has helped them to see him ... every time they come in ... as what he was/is.
Just a little boy ... nothing more ... nothing less.
By bringing my little Raymond here with me we have a better chance of healing ... together.

There is a book ... 'The Inner Child' ... that you can read if you like.
It made all the difference for me.

I was 36 when my world fell apart.
My shrink suggested the book.
I was only 3 when it started and understandably ... I was having trouble with memories locked inside the soul
of a little boy of 3,4,5,6 & 9.
At 9 I remembered him and what happened with crystal clarity ...
but the memories of the 4 men who came before him came hard and at a high price.
I cried an ocean of tears ... and I'm glad I did.
I still do sometimes ... and I can assure you ... I am all man.
One doesn't need arms to give or feel a hug.

If you like check out my poem ...
"Ode to my Avatar"

 

[Ceremony]

Did you ever feel you wanted to be taken away from everything bad, where it's extinguished, disappeared? Sometimes I long to be lifted up, out of it all, just held and protected. Rocked.

I feel these things without words. They're not really adult thoughts, but I feel them. The T says they're a young child's. Leftovers. Mine. Me.

I don't like feeling and thinking this. It comes with shaking and crying terror and bad memories. I've tried hard my whole life not to feel this. I can't keep it away any longer. They aren't the right thoughts, adult men don't feel this, it's foolish, childish, it's not manly. But I have them. They feel like they're destroying me, but then they don't.

I know there is no extinguishing the past, and I know no one is going to save me. But a child doesn't. Maybe I needed to believe that it just might be possible. Despite everything bad and hopeless, I still longed and believed. I have no other way to account for it.

I bet people will say it's not good to stay feeling this. Clinging to this doesn't help me be an adult, a man. It keeps me from seeing other ways to go. I know. I can see how this left me open to people who hurt me and used me. Even now I think this keeps me going back to old ways.

I'm afraid that if I let go of this I'm leaving the only thing I have. I afraid if I don't, I'll be left behind alone.

Have you ever felt this?

Yes seachange, very much so. I found, like Shyshark is saying, my inner child yearned for what I hadn't gotten. It was intensely painful and my work with EMDR had to postponed it hurt so badly. That's coupled with my discovering how much I actually dissociated, and the work needed to settle that down so I could use the paddle buzzing to help my brain settle down certain targeted emotions. It's all complex and I write about it here on MS.

I'm very much in agreement with Shyshark, and hadn't known until this post, about his suggestion to use our child photos in the avatar. I appreciate seeing a 12 year old me, and the wonder of things. The beginning of my worst downward spiral.

The thing that I couldn't do for myself, was to love my inner child like he deserved. I didn't hate him, but I didn't love me as an adult, and hadn't the will to bring my inner child into a parents kind of love that I am capable of for my own children. It seemed so odd I hadn't the ability to find it in myself to love my inner child. I wasn't repulsed, I was numb, stunned that I endured that, all that pain. I had/have too much anger too, which includes what I have to process about my parents, feeling neglected, betrayed by neglect, and some other.

What I found that has been a game changer, a life saver, a need I've had all my life, is to find a surrogate nurturer whom I can see safely managing care I need. I chose Mrs. Weasley from Harry Potter, and it's working wonders for me. I've had my 3, 4, and 5 year olds playing in that living room and house for about a month. I've all my other child selves in various incarnations of rooms I know would be awesome for them. Toys, electronics, stereos, videos and all my imagination and a witch for a care provider can come up with.

I like my choice of care provider; cool, a witch with loving empathy, who has the powers to allow very cool things for my inner kids. I just visit, and see that my inner kids are doing fine. I can stay a long time, or a few seconds just checking in. It makes it very easy, very low stress. I'm starting to feel the build of being cared for, a surrogate, a movie character, a choice for care provider, is making me feel wanted, loved, safe and happy as an inner child. I didn't quite get it when my T started me on this path. I get it now. It's building, slowly building good in my mind's life for my inner kids. I can change how they think things can/could be about being loved, safe and cared about. I will get chances to interact soon, and work on the anger my older kids hold. It's getting better to know that's there.

That anger was a monster that the Hulk, yes the Hulk, fought with. I use my imagination a lot. It's one of my things. I share in hopes some can see what it can offer.

Best wishes.

 

[seachange]

Hi Shyshark, thank you. Where can I read your poem? I appreciated your post a great deal.

The inner child concept sort of helped me in previous therapy. I'm been aware of child feelings, though childhood has remained mostly a blank. But since early memories have started to come up in the last 2 months, I'm having trouble. I don't want to remember. But they're here. And so is he.

I really don't want him around. That sounds harsh. But now as I walk through my day, I'm often more him than I am me. Younger and younger, alarmingly vulnerable, and so hurt, confused, wide open, looking for someone anyone. Very uncomfortable, but so familiar. Confusing. Troubling. He's always been there, I see now.

He's always been there, here. I guess that's the difficulty with the concept, sometimes he's there and sometimes he's here. When I feel I'm adult, he's somewhere else and honestly I'm happy he's gone, he only causes trouble. But when he's here, I see through his eyes, I'm him, he's me. And watch out. He's wild.

How to get a hold of a terrified and sad and lost child? I think I'll get that book. I will seriously consider looking for a photo for an avatar. Thank you for that. (And thanks for your campaign. It's enormously affecting to see the childhood photos.) I do want to move on to healing. I resist. My new T says it's pointless to resist. Guys here are encouraging. It's nice. Thanks.

 

[seachange]

ceremony, your use of your imagination sounds so amazing, a surrogate caretaker, the idea of different various ages. I like it. I'm relieved you mentioned anger, I cut it out. Maybe I could employ the Hulk. Suddenly it doesn't seem so scary. Sometimes the disgust is too much. The most terrible feelings today have to do with the bewildered boy who seems too young, they tear through me like crashing waves. I am breathing. I am grounding. Thank you.

 

[Shyshark]

Hi again ...

If you go to my profile and look at my posts ... those I originated ... its on the first page.

I'm glad my view on the inner child was helpful.
I always believed in the concept but it wasn't until I found that picture that it REALLY hit me.

It felt like ...
THAT'S ME! ... THAT'S ME ... THAT'S REALLY REALLY ME !!!!!!

Honestly ... look at that little boy.
How could anything be his fault?
Why would he ever feel ashamed? ...
and why on God's green earth should I ever be ashamed of him??

Shame was a big thing for me because I allowed it ...
as much as a preschool child is capable of agreeing to any such thing ...
and I liked it.
I didn't know it was wrong.
They never hurt me ... not as far as I remember (still unresolved).
They paid attention to a sad little boy that felt he had no place in his own home.

Of course that wasn't true ... it's what a little boy perceived to be true.
As an adult I learned why that was ... but I'll be brutally honest ...
it took me a long long long time to make peace with that.

The abuse itself didn't hurt me ... but it hurt the rest of my life.
He's not to blame for that ... those 5 men are.
The repercussions shaped my life in a very unhealthy way.

I'm not off the hook for that.
Not everything in my long life can be blamed on the abuse. (I'm 63)
I made many beds and I sleep in all of them.

Again I'm focusing on myself because I can't find the proper words to respond to you specifically.
Your pain is real ... and my pain for you is real.
All I can do is share my experience and hope it helps you.

While your looking at my poems take a peak at ...
'recollected sensations'. (second page)
When I first came to MS I saw Poetry and as a big dumb man I thought "poems ... what a bunch of hooey!"
It helps to put words to emotions without getting into cold hard facts.
I liked to make mine rhythm because it made me dissect the feelings I was having ...
but as you can see ... lot's of guys just let it go freeflow.
Who cares.
It helps.



(((((((((((( seachange ))))))))))

 

[seachange]

Shyshark, He is so young. So so young. I cannot blame him, but I have. It's breaking me up.

My early childhood experiences are mixed up fragments of older boys. What's a man with a beard doing with a child?

The intensity: adoration, awe and fear and shame and desire, disgust and pain and crying. It drives me nuts just to write that, but I trust you get it. I read your poem Recollected Sensations, it captures my sense of the unreality and ungraspable intensity. A kaleidoscope. A collage. Maybe there's a poem.

And I hate how I later sexualized these memories as a kid, embroidered upon them, fuel for fantasy, and longed for them, and still do, it just happens, the shame in saying that is overpowering, and a release, relief. I've been afraid of them. I'm afraid to lose them. All I've ever wanted was to be back there. It's humiliating to admit. And so confusing.

Is it true that all I ever truly wanted was to be held? I never really wanted sex, especially in a bed. The disgust and terror overwhelmed me. I used to float above the bed.

Thank you. Your post really affected me and brought up these thoughts with intense accompanying feelings. Your honesty is so welcome. It has helped me write in my journal, as the T suggested. And I do want to be a good boy for the T!(some humor please)

Parentheses around a name means hugs, right? thanks for the hug.

 

[Shyshark]

.

 

[Bluedogone]

Hi seachange,

I've never embraced the inner child concept. It seems as if it could quickly devolve into a pity party, which I definitely don't need. But if it works, then fantastic

You are not alone in the shame, confusion and humiliation of longing to be back there while at the same time acknowledging the terror and disgust that surrounded the events. It's such a paradox. Sort of like two opposing forces fighting it out for our emotions.

When I read your first post I immediately had a vision of what a ride in a hot air balloon must be like when an experienced balloonist would be able to comfort and calm as we escaped the reality of our life.

[quote:seachange]
Did you ever feel you wanted to be taken away from everything bad, where it's extinguished, disappeared? Sometimes I long to be lifted up, out of it all, just held and protected. Rocked.[/quote]

So, Yes. You're not the only one.

 

[Shyshark]

Hi seachange ...

Yes ... ((( seachange ))) is a hug.

Let me begin with a bit of advice and then I'll make some comments on your last post.

I see you have a T.
If your next appointment is weeks away ask for one asap.
Why? ...
because you have just taken a major step in the right direction and this is an opportunity to keep the momentum going.
Print this entire post and bring it for him/her to read. (I'll use 'him')
It will be helpful to see the responses from the guys and to see what your responses are.
He may or may not agree with what I've said ... but that doesn't matter.
It's a good start.
I am anything but a professional anything.
I base what I say from my own experience of 27 years of therapy which began when I was 36 ... and loads more before that.
I'm 63.

When the beginning of my breakdown kept increasing in intensity I went to my doctor to ask for some pills ...
to keep me going for a week ... then I had 3 weeks vacation during which I planned on figuring out what the fuck was going on.
I was going crazy ... and I didn't know why.
Nothing made sense.
Everything was surreal ... the emotions I was being flooded with had no reasons.
I was 3 years old for God's sake!
My job required precise concentration and only minutes to conclude a task ... and I couldn't do it.
Other team members repeatedly had to step in and take over.
I was a perfectionist and I had trained most of them myself ...
so everybody was confused ... and alarmed.

I was so humiliated.
I had to grow a pair and do my job for a week.
I needed help ... and I got it ...
but never in my wildest dreams did I ever think something like that ... something like this ... would happen to me.
My doctor said I was not going back to work and I was put on a leave.

Within a week I was sitting in the office of my first shrink.
Since then there have been 3 more, a bunch of T's and some groups ... and 5 years here in MS.
I have rarely been without help ... but that unfortunately has another reason.
As if things weren't bad enough all that crap awakened my dormant Bipolar Disorder.
It ... more than the abuse ... torments me to this day.

Obviously this is just a little bit of a lot.
Don't be afraid to ask questions ... I'll talk about anything ...
but be forewarned.
You might not like some of my answers ... but they will be the truth as I see it.

Now ... responses.

I sexualized a lot too.

As an example ...
In that poem 'recollected sensations' all that first part is about my first perp ... Harvy.
Dark black wavy hair ... deep brown eyes ... a thick blue-black 5 o'clock shadow ... soft lips ... and most important ...
a deep cleft in his chin. A very handsome man.
A cleft alone on a man makes me shiver.

His face is a vision in my head that became the ideal man and I searched for a face like that ... or close enough ...
throughout my entire life ... from very very young to this very day.
Why has not yet been adequately explained.
The only point that makes sense to me is that ... if he had hurt me ... I wouldn't want him.
I'm not proud of it ... but then again I'm not ashamed either.
I've slept with 100's of men.
There's another reason I bring this up.
As I've said ... 100's of men ... and NEVER have I EVER made the first move.
They had to want me ... they had to desire me ... and they had to prove it by approaching me first ...
I craved that 'look' in their eyes ...
and I wanted to be held too but there's a hitch.
The men had to be strangers ... or at least men I didn't really know ... and I had no intention of ever knowing them.
1 or 2 ... maybe 3 night stands and I was done with them. NEXT ...
I never did that with guys I knew ... so hugs weren't very often a part of the mix.
I wasn't hard to look at ... so ...

I should mention ...

I was married to a fantastic woman. I still love her to my very core ...
but the marriage of 7 years had to end when I confessed to her that I had realized I was gay.
After leaving her I almost immediately started a relationship with a wonderful man ... for 7 years that ended amicably.
(There's something of note here but it's complicated ... and wonderful ... so I won't go into it.)
Immediately after leaving him I started another relationship of 4 years and it was very troubled.
He met me just before I fell apart and he stood by me ... for 4 years ...
despite the fact that several times I was an absolute mess.
He is my only real regret.
I loved him ... I really did ... but I couldn't give him what he wanted ... needed ... and that fact hurt him deeply.
I'm forever sorry that I did that to him.
There was another guy right after him that lasted a little over a year. It ended well.

I cheated on them every chance I got.
I NEEDED that look of desire in a man's eyes.

Hugs weren't part of the mix ... even with my partners.
There was a lot of social hugging ... but I never really wanted it in a sexual way.
It seemed ... off.
I love hugs ... and I want all I can get ... but not like that.

My real happiness is children.
I just love them to bits. I don't have any of my own.
A very wise old woman once said to me while I was holding her newborn granddaughter ... and she saw the pleasure in me ...
"You are never closer to God than when you hold a child."
It's true.

WOW!

This is getting very very long and I've run away with myself ... as I often do I'm hijacking your post.
I'm sorry.
If I try to edit and condense this I will never submit it.
I just can't help myself when I get going ... I just blabber on and on.
I hope my sordid past explains why I was the way I was ... am how I am.
Take from it what you will.

((( seachange )))

Sharky

 

[Ceremony]

Hi brother Shyshark, that's a kindness to share so well, and clearly, how we can deal with our emotions through relationships and short term connections. We all have some version of it, sexual or just relationships, short-term or whatever.

I don't agree that Shyshark is hijacking, nor that it's too long. That's the kind of sharing that means a lot to me. I am and can be connected to brothers here. I can be more a part of things to read our truths, our vulnerabilities and strengths.

I see a lot of strength from Shyshark there, and it helps me to do more too. I think that's why Male Survivor works. We share ourselves and what resonates we connect, and what we listen to, we learn and may reciprocate feedback.

I'm aware of why I have become the way I am too. It's taken a lot of work and I know I'll discover more in the future. That's the process, the processing of trauma. There's a lot to consider, like the inner child. I hope what I shared made sense? That therapy is very healing for me, it connects the lost child I was, to the man I am and want to be. I'm so complex, that I find myself working very hard to explain.

Best wishes.

 

[Shyshark]

Thank you my dear friend ... for always listening to my drivel ...

 

[seachange]

Thank you guys. I'm overwhelmed... with gratitude and a strange sadness. I'm supposed to go to a bar for a party but I suddenly feel like I have way better friends here. I could never share any of this with any of them. The secret is so old and so new it's not even dry ink on the page, and you seem to get every word. That's never happened to me before. I'm choked up. I don't want to go. But I promised an old friend, it's her birthday. You all made me feel so accepted. I'll be thinking of you. I'm pulling it together. I'll be back.

 

[Shyshark]

I'm glad you went. It's important to maintain friendships. Not so much because you will want to confide in them but to just keep up a normal social life as best you can.
We tend to forget ... it's not all about the abuse.
It's about life.

 

[seachange]

To life. Thanks Shyshark,that’s good to hear. Though now I’m here with total strangers, and an unreal feeling, in other words the usual (humor.) Just breathing, smiling, planning an escape. I can tolerate this, it’s only for a limited time.

 

[seachange]

...longing to be back there while at the same time acknowledging the terror and disgust that surrounded the events. It's such a paradox. Sort of like two opposing forces fighting it out for our emotions.

I feel like my whole life I've fought this off, and now something has decided it's time. I blame myself. You shouldn't have made such a big deal about your rape, you should have stayed silent. No one wants to hear about such things. Now look what you've done.

Letting myself have these early childhood memories, or worse, trying to remember them, makes me guilty, like I want them. I don't want them. And I'm angry at myself because it's my fault that I've lost control. I brought on this trouble, the sickening flood of terror and also the longing to be back there, which you call the paradox. I don't want to be back there. And I admit I would give anything to be back there again. That engulfs me in self-loathing and shame.

"Forget about it" "let it go" "stop causing yourself needless pain." I hear these and I would shout: Do you think I want to remember? I've tried to forget.

I've lost the power, the memories have won. The bad feelings have won. I feel I've given into the the little perverted boy I was, who looked for sex everywhere and found it. He's the one who wanted these memories. Not me. He's the one who longed to be back there. Not me. Now he's got the power and I'll never get it back.

I don't think this is the healing version of the inner child. I want to extinguish him. He disgusts me. I'm not supposed to say that. That's not nice. None of this is nice. None of this is normal. I feel polluted and damaged and f'd up. I'm sick of it. I'm shaking. I have to calm down. No one will like me now that I've said this.

No one should know any of this. No one wants to know this. These are things no one should ever say. I'm not supposed to say these things. But you guys say you understand. That's the only reason I'm saying it. And because the T says I need to let it out.

Breathing. Grounding. Breathing Grounding.

No more coffee for me today. Humor please.

 

[seachange]

After I wrote the above I went to the "Tips for when you're feeling triggered..." by Chris Anderson here under the Male Survivor main forum. It's a really helpful gathering of wisdom for dealing with this stuff. I cross-checked myself against the list of signs of being triggered:

1. you are having strong emotional swings YES
2. feeling out of balance and unable to focus on tasks YES
3. if you find yourself more irritable and moody than normal YES
4. you find it more difficult to let little things go YES
5. you feel powerless or overwhelmed YES YES YES
6. you are experiencing more intense emotions (good or bad) than normal YES YES YES
7. you are on "high alert" for threats to you or your loved ones
8. you are struggling with impulse control

He makes several suggestions on what to do, here's my checklist:

1. Ensure you are getting proper rest.
(I'm going to bed early tonight.)
2. Try to exercise regularly and maintain as regular a schedule of self-care as possible.
(I forced myself to run tonight.)
3. Maintain a healthy diet
(I ate decently tonight.)
4. Moderate, or eliminate, use of alcohol and other mood altering substances.
(No wine with dinner tonight.)
5. Begin a mindfulness practice
(Um. I could fold the laundry mindfully.)
6. Perhaps most importantly DO something FUN
(One of the hardest.)

I am feeling calmer. It was hard day. I am grateful to have MS. Thanks Chris. Thanks everyone. --seachange