Time is of the essence-need help w/ deadline

Time is of the essence-need help w/ deadline
B

Brokenhearted

Registrant
Anyone, any ideas of a deadline I should give my husband for him to get therapy or for me to leave (probably divorce)? Don't want to push too hard but also there needs to be some parameters around this. Larry, any suggestions???

If I wait too long he may get comfortable in his sickness again, and if I push too hard he may shut me out forever.
 
Broken Hearted,

I read your other thread and I am floored.

I am so very sorry for your hurts. This must be more than awful. My dear woman, you must be in a thousand pieces. I wish I were closer to help you in some way. I send you a hug dearheart.

The deadline is passed sweets. It passed a long time ago. I am sorry. I am so, so sorry.

When the shock has worn off, heed the words of the wise posters who have answered your other thread. Start the divorce proceedings and get him out of your home immediately. get o the doc and have a full work up- including HIV and all of the other blood work for STD's. Go to the GYN and get the same if you have not been in the last 2 months.

I do not know what to say, except, there is a season. For everything there is a season. The season to cry will end. Hugs and strength to whether out the season dear one.

Bunny
 
Brokenhearted,

Deadlines are so harsh, but sometimes I suppose they are necessary. As I said in a previous thread, I don't like ultimatums, but I issued one myself. It was either therapy or we crashed and burned - the end. It was also done right then and there in the heat of the moment. There was no cooling off period. I was calmly freaked when I demanded he call his therapist and make an appointment right in front of me. Turned out that we both saw her within 2 hours that same night. He was already open to the idea of therapy, just scared to death of it, so he went and he's still going - thank God.

Your situation is a little different because you've said your husband doesn't see that the s/a might have anything to do with anything. In that light, I can't possibly even suggest what do to. Only you know your real life situation and whether he would respond. It would also depend alot on how it was presented to him. If it's a threat, my guess is that he would get his hackles up, dig in even further and the two of you would go no where. I wish I had something definitive for you on this, but I just don't.

I happen to agree with Bunny on one thing - get to a doctor and have him/her do a complete STD testing on you. You've been put in danger by your husband's behavior and while you may not have peace of mind for anything else right now, at least a complete exam will set your mind at ease as to your health.

ROCK ON.........Trish
 
Trish,
You raise an invaluable point-thank you. I am in the process of writing a letter to him which I will have my T read next Fri when I see her again . Basically that I can't be married to someone who cheats. But also that everyone makes mistakes and I can forgive those mistakes, but also that if this is to move forward he needs to go to counseling w/ me. Maybe I could put it in that light, like marriage counseling, if he wants to *stay a family*. Surely the csa would eventually come out? Also it will come out someday as my T said, you can't suppress forever. Wish it would happen fast and now. I KNOW he does not wish to be w/o our daughter, his ONE trustworthy connection in this world since his csa happened.

God, I'm going to have a lot of editing to do of all my posts one day if there's ever a chance he'll come here...

All right, sigh, I will call to get tested, how no fun and I've done it once before.

And Cecilia, parts of me feel the way you do. But w/ 14 yr history of marriage and a child I feel it is worth to get fixed if it can, and I believe it CAN, if he gets help. That's the tricky part right there since as Trish reminded me, he doesn't necessarily see the link between the abuse and the demolishing of his life.

When will he see the link? Only when his "coke bottle" pops and it all crashes in on him???
 
Brokenhearted,

The marriage counselling idea is a good one. When my b/f was married, a very long time ago, he and his wife were in marraige counseling and that's when he started individual therapy for the csa he suffered. You see, the marriage counselor was also very experienced in csa and saw it. Unfortunately, when his marriage ended, so did therapy, for years. The behaviors were still there, the hurt was still there, but he had no help.

I don't know if the link between csa and your husband's behaviors will be brought out in counseling or not. I do know that it should not be forced and should not be the focus of any counseling the two of you attend. What you both need to deal with is the here and now. If stuff comes out, then OK, hopefully he'll start to deal, but you can't force it. Today is what matters to you, your marriage and your child, no matter what.

ROCK ON.......Trish
 
Brokenhearted,

I just responded to your last post. I am in the same boat you are. I really don't believe in ultamatums. My husband and I are currently separated. He did go to individual counseling in May; but I think he only went for 5 sessions. Then we went to one marriage counseling session 2 weeks ago and once again he said he was not ahppy and he did not love me. Now he says he will not go to therapy because it won't change him. And yes you are right, "His coke bottle needs to explode!" I care and love him so much I want to be there for him when that happens. But I am not sure how long I can wait. It was been 5 months since ALL the S/A came out in the open. And after reading all these posts I know that is such a short time. I got tested for STDS and AIDS since my husband was acting out with other women. I have been in therapy for 4 months now. I truly wish you all the BEST.

Ginny
 
BH-

In a 14 year marriage- this is what you have been having to put up with. He says he does not love you.

I have made my point in my last post.

Maybe I should ask you the following:

Are you wanting to get something back from everything you put in? I went through that. And I didn't realize I was doing it. I denied it outright to my couselor- then I thought about it and two days later told her she was right.

She was also right that there is no such thing. Past is past- we can't get anything "back" from what we put in. Not to say that it is wasted- it is not. But until he "gets it" which may be never- what is your life worth?

His life is worth something, but he is currently living it at your expense. I feel that you are enabeling him by being there and he has said he will not commit to anything in the relationship.

Why is it so hard to beleive him when he talks to you?

YOU DID NOT DO THE ORIGINAL HARM TO HIM. YOU CAN NOT FILL THE HOLE. NOT EVER. HIS DAUGHTER CAN NOT FILL THE HOLE.

Think about what this is doing to your child.

I have said my peace, I know you have to do what is right for you, and only you know.

No matter what you decide, I hope you will find peace.
 
Brokenhearted,

i want so bad to give you some words of hope and strength - i'm so sorry you are hurting right now. it must be so difficult, each and every day.

i don't know what to say, this road is so dark sometimes, so full of 'if's' and 'why's'

you are struggling now to find what it is you can accept and what you cannot; when you reach that limit you'll find at least some peace but you're afraid at what it means to get there - we are all afraid at that point because it represents change that we sometimes think we might not be able to handle.

you are an incredibly strong woman, you can do this. believe in yourself, i believe in you. you will be ok, i know you will.

all the best,
indy
 
Indy and others,
I know I am strong and can get through this. Thanks for your words. I can get through this, I know it is a long, hard road. I am sure that although I am hurting a lot right now, he is hurting worse. Hard to believe but true. As a Christian I am standing steadfast and praying. If he decides he just does not want any part of our family anymore, and does not want help, there may be nothing I can do to counter that. All I can do is what I'm doing now. I love him, not his behavior. Jesus is my bedrock, not him, so whatever happens I will be ok. I am not as intent upon a strict deadline now after speaking w/ some confidantes. I know some of you are ready for me to just kick him in the pants and get him out of my life now. While I understand where you're coming from I am coming from a different place. I don't know what will happen ultimately. We may lose this but I'm not giving in, yet. I know God can turn this around. I've seen too many miracles.
 
Brokenhearted, I understand where you are coming from. There is a difference between the behaviors you won't tolerate in your life and the people you won't tolerate in your life.

I would take boundaries over deadlines any day.

My partner didn't show much interest in therapy for over a year after he disclosed to me. I believe that he would have gone earlier if I had done some of the work for him, or if I'd made it a condition of staying with him, but I also believe that it all would have been time and money wasted until the time that he felt ready to put the effort into it.

To me, a deadline is essentially a mixed message... you're saying, "This behavior is not tolerable, starting three weeks from now (or whenever)..." if it's really not tolerable to you, then what makes it any more tolerable today or tomorrow? Or to put it another way, if it's okay with you today, then why should he change it come the deadline?

I think it's a better use of your energy to focus on what's acceptable to you and what's not, in the present, and then focus on creating a space for yourself where only those things/behaviors that are acceptable to you are allowed in.

Does that make sense?

edited to add: Where is your husband spiritually? I know that when my partner was acting out, he had all but stopped going to his church (I am not a member of his church)... whereas before that, he found time to be active in the congregation even when he worked seven days a week. I said I didn't push therapy, but I did encourage him to start going back to his church, and thinking back on it, I don't know that he would have been as comfortable with "seeking help" if he hadn't done that first.
 
SAR, good question. My husband used to go to Promise Keepers, all that, about 6 yrs ago when we lived in a bigger city. We'd been visiting diff. churches in our current town up to about 9 months ago. He sort of "became too busy" with work to attend w/ me, then in June (Father's Day) when all this "hit the fan" w/ his mysterious midnight walks and avoidance behavior and saying he's unhappy but doesn't know why, he has adamantly NOT wanted to attend w/ my daughter and me. I found us a church home a week after this "hit the fan" on Father's Day and my daughter and I have been going every Sun. since. But he still will NOT go w/ us. He is very avoidant of church as well right now.

Yes, so I am working on getting him back in church and around church friends at the same time. It is just as important or at least alongside the "getting therapy."

I am not rushing into any big decisions right now as to "deadlines" or whatever because I want to do this right. If I push too hard it could forever shut him away from me. So we are just "being a family" if you can imagine that - we went to a local art fair over the weekend, had a nice time, just still he walks next to me but does not touch me, he is very quiet, even around other people, where he used to alwasy be so outgoing even w/ like the Starbucks workers and now is very obviously quieter and off to himself.

I should say that along w/ the avoidance of me or saying he "doesn't feel close to me" (which I interpret as not loving me anymore and because when I say "You don't love me anymore," he doesn't correct me), he also has expressed some desire to stay w/ us. He does not want us to break up. He just says he cannot give me what I need right now and maybe never. I said, "You just can't "right now." So there are positives as in I know and believe he does still love me, he just is feeling he is wasting MY time, he is the wrong guy for ME, He is not good enough for ME, etc., all judgments against himself more than saying how he really feels about me. He has cried and said, "I don't know why." Once when I said I guess I need to get a job and I don't know how I'm going to support me and our daughter, because we had just had that big discussion where he said he's run around on me so much (explaining why he is not a good husband, not a good person), he said, "Well, I always wanted you to stay home w/ her and be w/ her, and I want her to still be w/you---- and I want to be w/ you guys....I just don't know...." Like he never thought PAST this, he never thought he might be hurting someone else enough for them to leave HIM, he doesn't really want to be away from us, he needs us, but he is in pain and doesn't know why or if he'll ever be able to be close to me again.

Sounds like the confusion the PTSD person goes through, from what I've read. We were close, but he can't trust it any longer now that this is starting to surface.....He feels fear rather than security w/ me. This I believe in my heart.

But thanks for asking, the spiritual aspect is very importnat. I now believe he has not been saved, I don't believe he ever opened his heart to ANYONE enough in his life, not even JESUS, to enter. So that is also something I am very concerned about. I told him he feels connected and trusts our daughter, she is the ONE he is connected to for the first time since being a boy when the abuse happened. He cried. I said, "Am I right?" I know it is true. HE is in worse pain than I am. It may take time but eventually I am going to help him see he doesn't have to live this way, I want to give him hope.

We still actually touch occasionally, hold hands or sleep close together, just to say, "I'm still here for you," ....part of the classic push-pull. But I can see he is so isolated from others, not just me now. He used to be much more outgoing w/ people. Surely he will see that this is affecting his WHOLE life soon?
 
P.S. The other day I did say something like, "If you're cheating on me, you're damn right I'm not going to just sit around and wait," and he echoed, "You're damn right!" ;-)
 
Brokenhearted,

Sorry I missed this one - had some family matters to deal with and I have been behind here for a few days.

I totally agree with SAR on going for boundaries rather than deadlines. If you give him an ultimatum you are stuck. You demand certain things by a certain date and the idea is, this is it: mess this up and we are finished. But in this kind of situation there are so many variables and at the deadline you may find that your demands remain unmet but you feel enough has been done to set a new deadline. But that suggests you don't mean what you say, so there will be another deadline, then another, then ...?

For him a specific deadline for performance on certain demands can also be counterproductive. When a survivor is under great pressure and already feels he will fail, he may just give up from the start.

That said, I think you do need to be clear about what your expectations, needs and concerns are. He needs to realize that the present situation cannot continue and you need to see REAL progress, beginning now. You will help him to recognize and accept specific instances, but you need to see a response as well. If he cannot manage this, then he has to know that a time will come when you will have to make decisions for the good of your daughter and your own well-being.

I think you have to be pretty clear and strict about a few things, though. One is fidelity, and you have already spoken about that above. Good. The other is respect. There is no reason in the world why his abuse history should make it okay for you to be disrespected, especially on an ongoing basis. That just means that his abuse gets to claim a new victim - you!

Much love,
Larry
 
Sar:

My partner didn't show much interest in therapy for over a year after he disclosed to me. I believe that he would have gone earlier if I had done some of the work for him,
Click to expand...
sorry to backtrack on this post but sar what did you mean by 'do the work for him' ?? i keep wondering about this and don't understand - please can you explain.

thanks.

indy
 
Indy,

By "do the work" I mean making the preparations (emotional and practical) for him to get therapy. Practically-- I didn't find his therapist for him, didn't make appointments or phone calls for him, didn't check with our insurance company to see what coverage we had, etc.

I did mention to him that there were a lot of resources online, mostly because it stunned me that someone could spend so much time online and obviously with his abuse on his mind, and never once think to just GOOGLE it and check out something that wasn't porn... and me being me, Google was about the first thing I did after I calmed down from his disclosure.

Emotionally-- I tried not to focus on his past or make a big deal out of how the things I was learning about CSA would be good for him to learn. I let him know what I expected from him in the present and I suggested that therapy would probably be a good tool for him if he felt unsure how to do some of the things I was asking. Then I kind of gritted my teeth while he tried to do it himself, and just vented a lot in this forum about why the hell was it taking him so long to get a therapist :D Eventually it got to a point where he realized on his own that it wasn't a do it yourself project.

Mainly I felt that he should be able to look back on his recovery and feel ownership, regardless of what happened to us.

Sar
 
SAR,

You said: "I tried not to focus on his past or make a big deal out of how the things I was learning about CSA would be good for him to learn. I let him know what I expected from him in the present and I suggested that therapy would probably be a good tool for him if he felt unsure how to do some of the things I was asking."

That is good - I am sort of getting it now. I have been so blown away by all I have learned that I have wanted to get him to learn it too, but now I see how it is important to stay in the present, as Larry said also before.

I know he is emotionally numb and knows it is not normal. I know he is not enthusiastic about life any longer. These are things he is aware of. These are some things I can focus on for him to seek help w/ in his own time.

I am learning so much from you guys - can't thank you enough. I think for sure I will back off a little now, not talking about csa w/ him. I will stay in the present. I will try to be gentle as I suggest that maybe he should "find out what's wrong." I do want to tell him he "doesn't have to live like this."

Learning more each day.....so when I'm ready to say anything to him I will say the right things...
 
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