They say the abuse doesn’t make you gay, but...

@Hopein14 You touch on so many important things. Thanks for sharing this. One dilemma you touch on is what to do about hope. To hope for something for so long whether it is a girlfriend or a tribe and to have that hope unfulfilled feels cruel. Most of us respond by killing the desire that drives that hope. The problem is that desire can never truly be killed and expresses itself in other ways if we try to kill it.

I thought most of my life that I was gay. I have realized a few things recently though. My SSA focused entirely on what happened when I was 8. Over and over again I would recreate in my mind what happened then. I felt connected to my abuser and felt like that was the way to be connected with another man.

I too ached for decades for a tribe. In the past 5 years I have found 4 guys who have become like brothers to me. We have cried with each other, prayed for each other, given each other a hard time, smoked cigars together, shot guns together, hug and tell each other "I love you". As I developed healthy bonds with these men I have noticed that my SSA has decreased dramatically. (I still go there sometimes when I am very stressed). I think the other thing which has minimized my SSA has been the counseling I have received. We have not actually talked about that in counseling. But as I have dealt with some of my issues, my desire to go there has diminished.

I wish you strength in your journey.

P.S. "fukeupitness" is my new favorite word. Thanks for sharing it :)
 
I grew out my beard all the way (after years of just having a goatee). You really have to "own it" and it ended up helping my own self esteem. I agree with accepting my own maleness despite the abuse and the SSA. It has been an ongoing progress on my Healing Journey.

@Hopein14, Sounds like you are well on your way!
 

Shyshark

Registrant
I just want to add a few things and admittedly I did not read all the comments made here. (way too much to read for me)
I hope I'm not being too redundant.

Let's keep in mind ... boys who were not abused struggle with their sexuality too.

I don't know the stats so I'll go out on a limb here ... most men who abuse boys are not gay. They have no interest in men ... boys exclusively.
One of our biggest questions when thinking of the man who becomes an abuser is ... "Was he abused too?"

As a gay man I honestly believe that I was born gay.
Certainly some things pertaining to my abuse played out in some of my sexual desires as a man ... when with a man ... and even when with my wife.

As a boy and a teenager guys fooling around with other guys was fairly common ... but that didn't make them gay.
What it did do is teach them what felt good. I've spoken to a couple of guys from my boy/teen years and they told me that they were fantasizing
about girls as they were doing (insert whatever act was being performed) with boys.
Perhaps things they learned about what they liked they brought with them into their straight sexual future ... I know I did.

As it turns out I was the only one who was gay ... but it's certainly not because of my experiences with those boys.
What it did do was put me on a path of desperate denial ...
"I am NOT gay!"
It resulted in marriage ... which resulted in a lot of pain for both of us.
I was one of the lucky ones.
It did destroy our marriage ... but not our love for each other... it just changed it.
We formed a new and loving relationship.

I went on to a long and mostly happy life as a gay man.
What happened to me made me who I am ...
and not what I am.

These are my thoughts.
 
Last edited:
@Shyshark Thank you for posting your comment. While I think this is a helpful thread, I am mindful that it could also be hurtful to folks who are gay. Because of my own SSA I realize what a difficult journey sexuality is for so many of us - gay or not. I think that for both heterosexuals and homosexuals - our sexuality is where much of our brokenness plays out. Abuse can be one factor which plays into that but there are many.
 
Greg, it is like the abuse robbed us of the opportunity to really discover our own sexuality apart from the abuse. Regardless of the path we choose to follow, the abuse will always be there as a part of it.

I recently heard it called that we are "Trauma-Sexuals," as that will always be a part of our identities.
 
I guess I could have been born gay and never realized, and that’s why they chose to fuck with me when I was a kid. But do y’all see my confusion? Does anyone know what this experience is like? Like, if the only reason I am feeling these urges and arousal towards men is because of the stuff I experienced as a kid, then how can I say the abuse didn’t make me gay?
I feel so alone, so confused, and I feel like I am such a sick person for getting off to the stuff that happened, when it was all so bad. Please, I hope someone can answer me. I’m so sorry this post is so jumbled.

You are definitely not alone, Kuurt. My story and situation is similar to yours. We have attractions this way because have been influenced and so we are wired this way. You may have had some painful moments in the abuse, but also some acts that felt good. My first sexual encounter happened to me when I was 4, I dont know if I can even call that abuse because we were both very young, he was only 2 or 3 years older than me. He was also a minor and was passing on to me something that someone did to him. But it did not feel like abuse, it actually felt good. I became influenced by it, my little brain of mush was wired into thinking that way, I was stimulated in such activities and passed it on to others, which I am not proud of.
I currently struggle with gay porn, trying to get away from it, considering counseling but afraid to take that first step. But one thing I refuse - I refuse to beat myself up over this. You have referred to all of this (your attractions, or just the porn?) as 'sick', when in reality it can be considered normal. We all have needs that need to be met, and right now this may be what works for you in getting some of those needs met. Right now it is what works for me. Maybe if you are lucky to find a female who is hot for you, then your needs will be met in a way that many people consider normal and natural. Maybe those homosexual tendencies will be replaced with desires for this chick that is hot for you. Maybe someday I will get to be single again and I will find a chick who is hot for me, even though I feel gay, my wife and I have intimacy issues that will probably never be resolved, but I know I have priorities right now. So please dont beat yourself up because of the ones who point their fingers and say 'sick'. Those people who point their fingers but dont do a damn thing to help people like us.
Just some thoughts, I see the response has already been good which shows you are not alone in your struggle. This is a really good post with lots of encouragement and input.
 
Last edited:
I just want to add a few things and admittedly I did not read all the comments made here. (way too much to read for me)
I hope I'm not being too redundant.

Let's keep in mind ... boys who were not abused struggle with their sexuality too.

I don't know the stats so I'll go out on a limb here ... most men who abuse boys are not gay. They have no interest in men ... boys exclusively.
One of our biggest questions when thinking of the man who becomes an abuser is ... "Was he abused too?"

As a gay man I honestly believe that I was born gay.
Certainly some things pertaining to my abuse played out in some of my sexual desires as a man ... when with a man ... and even when with my wife.

As a boy and a teenager guys fooling around with other guys was fairly common ... but that didn't make them gay.
What it did do is teach them what felt good. I've spoken to a couple of guys from my boy/teen years and they told me that they were fantasizing
about girls as they were doing (insert whatever act was being performed) with boys.
Perhaps things they learned about what they liked they brought with them into their straight sexual future ... I know I did.

As it turns out I was the only one who was gay ... but it's certainly not because of my experiences with those boys.
What it did do was put me on a path of desperate denial ...
"I am NOT gay!"
It resulted in marriage ... which resulted in a lot of pain for both of us.
I was one of the lucky ones.
It did destroy our marriage ... but not our love for each other... it just changed it.
We formed a new and loving relationship.

I went on to a long and mostly happy life as a gay man.
What happened to me made me who I am ...
and not what I am.

These are my thoughts.

I can relate to you, Shyshark in that many years I tried to be straight, and now finally just accepting that I am gay. Like how you said about guys experimenting with another guy to see what they like but they fantasizing that they were with a girl. For me it was vice versa - when I was with my wife sexually, I found myself fantasizing being with a guy. I have had some good moments sexually with my wife, but our marriage was never centered on sex. We both had wild pasts, so in a way in our marriage we saved other. And like you said, our love for each other is still there, even though without sex, and she knows my past and that I still struggle inside, and she supports me. I want to be single but I want her to be ok, and I know for now I have to be here for my daughter. But I think I can be happy as a single gay man. Thanks for sharing
 
Greg, it is like the abuse robbed us of the opportunity to really discover our own sexuality apart from the abuse. Regardless of the path we choose to follow, the abuse will always be there as a part of it.

I recently heard it called that we are "Trauma-Sexuals," as that will always be a part of our identities.

Well said, bud. We were robbed of a 'normal' childhood
 
sexual abuse confuses & disorients all of us, your type of struggle is common among survivors. this article is very helpful:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...al-disorientation-male-sexual-abuse-survivors
Thanks for sharing the link! I read it and it shed some light for me. I think it was saying that we can be disoriented in that a person who has been abused could go either way, but also they could change from sexual experiences that they experience. For example, I am stimulated according to what I know. The gay experiences I have had have been my influence, but I could be changed by a positive heterosexual experience.
 

Hopein14

Registrant
@Hopein14 You touch on so many important things. Thanks for sharing this. One dilemma you touch on is what to do about hope. To hope for something for so long whether it is a girlfriend or a tribe and to have that hope unfulfilled feels cruel. Most of us respond by killing the desire that drives that hope. The problem is that desire can never truly be killed and expresses itself in other ways if we try to kill it.

I thought most of my life that I was gay. I have realized a few things recently though. My SSA focused entirely on what happened when I was 8. Over and over again I would recreate in my mind what happened then. I felt connected to my abuser and felt like that was the way to be connected with another man.

I too ached for decades for a tribe. In the past 5 years I have found 4 guys who have become like brothers to me. We have cried with each other, prayed for each other, given each other a hard time, smoked cigars together, shot guns together, hug and tell each other "I love you". As I developed healthy bonds with these men I have noticed that my SSA has decreased dramatically. (I still go there sometimes when I am very stressed). I think the other thing which has minimized my SSA has been the counseling I have received. We have not actually talked about that in counseling. But as I have dealt with some of my issues, my desire to go there has diminished.

I wish you strength in your journey.

P.S. "fukeupitness" is my new favorite word. Thanks for sharing it :)
Thank you, I'm having a hard to admit acute episode of feeling incredibly sad. It's not how I want to feel anymore, and your kind words and call out of enjoyment of the word being your new favorite made me smile
Peace
 

Hopein14

Registrant
Greg, it is like the abuse robbed us of the opportunity to really discover our own sexuality apart from the abuse. Regardless of the path we choose to follow, the abuse will always be there as a part of it.

I recently heard it called that we are "Trauma-Sexuals," as that will always be a part of our identities.
YES, THATS ABSOLUTELY ON POINY,IT DID, NO DISCUSSION NO WARNING. AND IM FILLED WITH SO MUCH EVERY DAY BECAUSE OF THAT
 
@Hopein14 Hey buddy I am sorry you are sad. The past six months have been especially hard for me. Waves of sadness wash over me and I don't know why. I have come to accept them and remind myself that I have had them before and that they eventually pass. Hang in there. You are a fighter and an overcomer. You have overcome many things to get to this point. You can continue to overcome.
 

kuurt

Registrant
Hi everybody,
Y’all really have no idea how much all of these responses mean to me. I mean it - I can’t even express how big of a deal it is that y’all responded. I’m really still having a hard time, but reading y’all’s responses helps a lot. Thank you.
 

Kevin_G

New Registrant
i cannot believe that so many people are writing here expressing the same feelings I am having. I need to start my own post, but I just wanted to express my appreciation for this forum and our collective honesty to help each other work on ourselves. I was abused as a young child by another young boy. I am struggling and ashamed of my weird fantasies that result from that, even though I am confident I love women. Thanks for giving me the courage to open up here everyone.
 
Thanks for giving me the courage to open up here everyone.
Welcome to MS, brother! Sorry you have a reason to be here, but I am glad you found us!
 
Greg, it is like the abuse robbed us of the opportunity to really discover our own sexuality apart from the abuse. Regardless of the path we choose to follow, the abuse will always be there as a part of it.

I recently heard it called that we are "Trauma-Sexuals," as that will always be a part of our identities.
That’s a great insight. I hadn’t considered that aspect; being robbed of the opportunity to discover sexuality on our own.
 
@NC-Survivor "it is like the abuse robbed us of the opportunity to really discover our own sexuality apart from the abuse. Regardless of the path we choose to follow, the abuse will always be there as a part of it."

Wow this is a powerful perspective changing comment. I grieve when I read it knowing that your comment is exactly right. I WAS robbed of my own discovery. I am also coming to terms that my abuse will always be a part of me. Initially angry about that, I am coming to terms with it now. This week my T asked me to make a list of the things I lost because of the abuse. However, on my own I also have begun a list of things I gained because of my abuse. Both lists are helping me accept the reality of my experience. I want less to reject that part of my life and accept that it is part of my past and has helped shape who I am today.
 

Blue22

Registrant
Survivor of female abuse here, kind of a reversal on the premise perhaps with the same outcome. I feel more comfortable with men - like they won't hurt me while women scare me. Who knows. That said, I guess I have what they'd call sexual fluidity. It just has to be the right person, whatever their identity may be.
 
Wow. Just wow. Such a powerful thread. Just spent a good hour going through it, and every post had its own wisdom, insight and honesty.

@SinkBackIntoTheOcean , thanks so much for that Joe Kort link. "Sexual disorientation" fits it to a T.

@ultraboy8888, I looked up your survivor's story and want to express my gratitude. It's done a lot to help me build up the courage to post mine, which is very different in a bunch of ways, but similar in how it involves shame at having experienced aspects of the abuse as intensely pleasurable.

@Hopein14 , thanks for the intense honesty of your "fuckedupitness" post. I don't know if you meant it to be poetic, but it is.

@NC-Survivor: "trauma-sexuals" is exactly right.

And, of course, @kuurt, when you write:
the confusion comes from having weird feelings of arousal attached to certain sex acts that I experienced when I was a kid. And I sometimes fantasize about those acts, and watch porn that has some of those acts in it - and I feel like I want to do those things sometimes. But then I also feel very, very guilty about those thoughts and feelings, too.

This issue's pretty near the heart of it for me. I spent the years from ages 11 to 18 or so forming deep, hopeless crushes on boys. I say hopeless because I'd engage in surreptitious moves like, say, snuggling extra close to a boy at a slumber party after the lights were out, or "innocently" sitting with him thigh-to-thigh on the sofa, while simultaneously being terrified of ever making an explicit move, for fear that he'd reject me, I'd be exposed as gay and then become a pariah. Back then, the late 80s, homophobia was far worse than it is now. In the case of two of the three boys on whom I had the biggest crushes, this was all pretty deeply ironic: one was gay himself, the other bi, and I later found out that they were both attracted to me, too. Makes sense, given how neither of them ever avoided me, and often would surreptitiously snuggle up on their own initiative -- a signal I of course totally missed, because of my own self-loathing.

At the same time, though, beginning around age 14 I started developing strong attractions to girls. There, my tendency to set things up in ways that allowed me to get "hot and bothered" while avoiding true intimacy and connection took a different form. Since I didn't have to worry about being ashamed to overtly admit my attraction, I generally chose girls who were inaccessible for some reason (closeted lesbian gymnast, heroin user beholden to her dealer, science prodigy who was forbidden to date by her conservative immigrant parents, horsey girl who basically lived at the stables, etc.). If they actually showed an interest in me anyway, I would sabotage the whole thing by chickening out and failing to make the necessary move at the necessary moment. My specialty was the spectacular loss of nerve on the girl's doorstep at the end of the first date, as she's looking expectantly into my eyes awaiting a kiss. Unfailingly, I'd say goodbye with a handshake. The one girlfriend I had during that time in my life basically grabbed me by the collar and said: enough, you will date me. (How that went is a story for a different thread).

I stopped crushing on boys when I was around 18, but the self-sabotage with women continued into my 20s. In fantasy acting-out land, my SSA went, um, bananas: gay porn, euphoric recall of things that "could have been" with my crushes back in the day, age-play in chats. That caused me so much shame and bewilderment. I knew I wasn't gay in the sense of actually wanting to have sex with a flesh-and-blood man, and yet I couldn't stop masturbating to this stuff, and on top of it felt compelled to pretend to be a kid enthusiastic about being used by chicken-hawks? What the hell?

It started getting clearer as I began dealing with my memories of abuse, putting them in order, facing things I'd stuffed away. The key thing, I now recognize, was what happened to me when I was 10. My abuser was an obviously very experienced pedophile (I'm not going to give him the satisfaction of calling him a "boy lover," which I have no doubt he'd have preferred). Sexually speaking he knew exactly what he was doing (my T's expression was "he played you like a violin"). It was only one encounter. There was a lot that was simply disgusting and terrifying about it. It was abuse. I hated it. I didn't want it. But there was also some extremely intense physical pleasure. More intense by a degree of magnitude than anything I'd ever before experienced, in fact, and far too intense for a boy of 10 to get anywhere near. Having dug into this pretty thoroughly with my T, I can now recognize it was that pleasure that threw things out of whack, giving me my sexual dis-orientation. I used to think I might be bisexual, heavily weighted towards being attracted to women; having the grip I have now, though, I'm more inclined to think that what's actually going on is that repetition compulsion so many of us struggle with. It explains so much, and my story seems to have so much in common with so many others on here.

For me, the physical pleasure aspect of the abuse is unfortunately the key. In general it seems as if CSA is an experience characterized above all by ambivalence: the simultaneous presence of very intense contradictory feelings. That's hard for anyone at any time, but especially difficult if the person having the experience is just a kid, and therefore in no way psychologically prepared. In a sense I feel like my sexuality got zapped at a dangerously transitional point (right before the onset of puberty) with "high-voltage ambivalence." The result's the mess I have now...which at least I can finally recognize for what it is, which helps.
 
Last edited:
So Kuurt, and everyone (especially you shyshark)

I do not even know how to indicate what was my experience. I was first molested by my older brother when 10, felt manipulated by my older brother when he had me sucking him at 12 (he told me he would not reciprocate because it was homosexual) manipulated a friend to play strip poker an offer to insert my finger up his ass, and ran away when he did not like it. Was sucked often by a friend of my mother at 13, orally and anally raped at 14. Was invited to experiment in ffm threesomes at 13 - but was too afraid to try it) ; making out with a girl at the park at 14. My first real sex (I was 16 she was 21) She enjoyed it because she had total control (and my brother's friend explained how to perform cunnilingus) Was tested by girls in my
to find out if I did not like them or if I was blind(they concluded I was blind) Had a 10 moth relationship in my senior year in high school with a junior girl.

Decided I liked gay porn because there was less hassel watching being sucked off by a man than a woman. Fell madly in love and married at 20.
She loved receiving oral and anal sex. But anal sex that she liked she stopped allowing me to give her and would not suck me. Thought that it was sodomy ( when I explained that anal sex was sodomy is when she stopped that (Sodom and Gamorrah) Any way when I got frustrated enough I would go to a porn arcade suck a dick, swallow cum and ignore it for about 5 years.

When I got sober in 1991(age 42) I stopped all homosexual acting out. And went celebate after she threw me out of the house at 45. I have had about 5 years of a sexual relationship from 2003 (age 54) to about age 60. I have been celebate ever since but masturbate to both male (gay) and female porn.

I think I am heterosexual. Would I have such a fixation on oral If I had not been sex molested? Who knows. Yes it is my favorite sex act. My most common sex act has always been to give oral. THAT is from the college junior when I was still in High school. I don't think being molested had
anything to do with my sexual orientation.. But I think that was because I had become traumatised by violence and neglect by the time I was
six so I was pretty dissociated before I was ever molested.

So that is my experience and it is why I think gay sex acts do not make gay oriented.

May God go with you on your healing journey.
 
Top