The Other Little Boy Who Hurts (Triggers)

Tonight, perhaps only in his dreams, another little boy remembers. That boy is my younger brother Paulie. Paulie and I don't speak of such things. There is a wall between us, a wall that only now am I beginning to understand. If I were ever to mention any of this to him....if I were to just whisper our older brother's name....and hint at events so long ago...Paulie would slam the door on me and his pain and I don't think we would ever speak again.

Maybe Paulie blames me. Maybe Paulie hates me just a little bit. Maybe he should hate me just a little bit. You see, it wasn't just that I didn't protect my baby brother from our older brother. The shame of it all feels much worse than that.

God help me! When our parents pulled out of the driveway, Paulie and I went in different directions. You see, we each had to try and find a good hiding place from our older brother. It was like a child's game of hide-and-seek, only it was played in deadly earnest. Sometimes our older brother found me first. Sometimes he found Paulie first.

The worst of it, the absolute worst of it is that sometimes I wanted him to find Paulie first. How can I ever explain that to Paulie? How can I ever explain that to myself? Me and Paulie were only a year apart. But it should have been me protecting him. And I didn't. I couldn't.

What did he do, Paulie? What did he do to you? Was it as bad as he did to me? Was it worse? Please, Paulie! Forgive me. Forgive me. And maybe someday, maybe someday I can forgive myself.

 

[roadrunner]

Jasper,

I have read a lot of powerful posts here, but this one really got to me. I admire you for the courage you show in speaking about this.

You were a kid being abused by a family member who should have been protecting you. All this is his doing and not yours. I think almost any child frightened half to death like this would have reacted as you did. The way you thought about the situation was entirely determined by fear, and that is the emotion any child would have. You don't need to be forgiven by anyone. The only failure here was on the part of your older brother.

Paulie's feelings may be directed against you because he felt as a child that you should be protecting him. What he needs to see is that both of you were victims. Neither of you is at fault. If this can be presented to him in some way that doesn't invalidate his feelings at what happened, perhaps that would open up the possibility of you two working together on this.

All the best,
Larry

 

[Rustam]

Jasper,

Its not your fault that you couldnt protect your brother. You were trying to cope with the impossible. Recently my brother who is 7 years younger than I and is in huge denial blamed me for leaving home while he was, in his words going mad I sadly replied that I would have gone mad myself had I stayed there and that I would have been no help to him. I am sad to say that thats true. When I was 19 years old I remember my dad after mum died telling my youngest brother 7 that he would sleep with him. My little brother cried and was so distressed, I felt crazy inside and was in too much denial and fear to face what was really happening. I wish it were otherwise.

One time when our mum was in a rage and we were hiding in sheds from her, I prayed that she would find someone else, when I heard my sisters cries I felt such relief and such guilt. I wish I was nobler, but I was a traumatised kid trying to live and avoid pain in a cruel brutal system. We all did what we could to survive, we were reacting to abuse we were not the abusers.

I would like to have seen myself as above the cruelty but that is asking too much of a child. I am sorry this wall exists between you and your brother, but its not your fault; remember little Jasper and what he had to live through to survive, he deserves your understanding, he did nothing wrong.

Take care,
Peter.

 

Hello Larry:

Thank you for your kind and reassuring words. They are much appreciated.

It is so hard for me to know what my brother is thinking. When we were kids, we just went back to playing when our older brother wasn't hurting us. That, I guess, was our survival mechanism. To never really talk about it.

The only time it came up when we were kids was when my younger brother would somtimes pretend he was our older brother. And I would be in the bathroom and Paulie would jimmy the lock and suddenly startle me if I was in the tub. Just the way our older brother did when we were hiding. So even as kids, I guess Paulie tried to deal with his feelings that way. Kind of make a game of it. A game that I hated, for obvious reasons! Some kids play cops and robbers. Paulie was playing "vic and perp."

But as adults, it simply is never discussed. One night, many years ago, when he got very drunk, he told me about something our older brother used to say to tease him. By my standards, it wasn't even something that seemed that serious. Just a stupid remark that my older brother always made to him whenever he would pass my younger brother on the stairs. But for him, it was extraordinarily painful. And the unbelievable pain of that for my younger brother just broke my heart. We were like twins as kids, we were so close. Yet he never had the courage to tell me what our older brother did or said to him. And I never had the courage to tell my younger brother either.

I sure would be relieved if it turned out that my brother had only been physically and verbally abused. And not sexually abused too. But somehow I doubt that. Oh, God! When I think of all the things that could have been done to sweet little Paulie....

Can we ever bring this out in the open? I don't know. We stay in touch right now mostly through cards and letters. Since our Mom died a few years ago, it's been hard to get together, even though we live only 50 minutes away from each other.

I can't explain it but my brother is always inviting me back into his life, only to push me away. And it just got so painful for me, caused so much hurt, that I had to step back.

So what do you guys think? Should this be part of my healing now? Or should I hold off on even thinking about this until I've come to terms with the memories that are still surfacing?

Seriously, I welcome any and all advice. And thanks again, Larry!

All the best to you!

Jasper

P.S. I think my brother's feelings are also complicated by the fact that I am gay and he is straight. Like maybe just being around me is a painful reminder of what our older brother did. Does that make sense?

 

We all did what we could to survive, we were reacting to abuse we were not the abusers.

Peter,

Thank you. What you said above should be the quote of the week. I needed that reminder.

Also, thank you for sharing your own story. I am deeply moved.

Take care,

Jasper

 

[puppy]

its not your fault jasper.

my brother was 8 yrs older than me and he left when i was pretty young still. he knew what went on. i hated him for leaving me. but onc ei could understand it more, i knew he was just as scared as me and he wanted to protect me but just idnt know how.

 

Thanks, Puppy!

I appreciate your saying that. I am still having trouble forgiving myself for not being able to help Paulie. In my head, I know I couldn't do anything for him. But in my heart, I can still hear him crying. And I wish I had done something besides curl up in a ball in the closet.

But I promise I will work on the forgiving part!


Thanks,

Jasper

 

[roadrunner]

Jasper,

Reading your further post clarifies things a bit for me, and I have something to say that I have thought about long and hard. I really dont know whether I should go down this road, and I need to tell you these are just my personal thoughts.

Awhile back I started a thread (Telling my father) about on a problem that was absolutely devouring me: should I tell my father what happened so many years ago? I was abused from the age of 11 until 14 by a man who worked with our Boy Scout troop, and he got me to shut up and let it continue by using the cruelest lies imaginable: I was a sissy and thats how he knew I would do this, if I told I would be thrown out of the house and end up in an orphanage, nobody loves me except him and my parents keep me only because I was their only son, my father is furious with me (for reason x, y, or z) so I should go with him until things calm down at home, doing this to you shows I really am the only one who loves you, etc etc. By the time it all ended I was an emotional disaster, and back in those days there was nowhere to go and no one to talk to about such things. So I coped by burying everything and going into denial; I somehow convinced myself that nothing had happened and I really must stop worrying about those childish bad dreams. But by some twisted logic I was also blaming my Dad, who was and is a fantastic person and a wonderful father. I guess I needed somewhere for the anger and fear to go and wanted to know why me. So there it is: he should have protected me. I became extremely difficult and rebellious, way beyond the usual teenage troubles, and for years into adulthood I was emotionally cold and distant from him. I am still ashamed at all the times I rejected or ignored his endless gestures of love and support. Eventually our relationship was restored, almost entirely due to the wisdom and kindness of my wife, but I still did not understand why I had been such a prick.

When I posted on the question of whether or not I should tell my father, the issue hinged on the fact that he is 80 years old. He would be devastated, of course, and I know he would feel terrible that this had happened and he knew nothing about it. I might feel better, but what good would it do him?

How all this fit together I didnt figure out until I read your second post here. I was overpowered by your first post but I wasnt sure why. I was writing to you about things you might consider, but I wasnt seeing the truth about myself. I was a victim, it wasnt my fault. I dont need to be forgiven. My problems with my father go right back to the poison I got from my abuser. In order to keep things going he was trying to deprive me of the first lifeline I might have grabbed at. And my father was hurt as well. My abuser took away from him all those years of love and affection that the two of us should have had and which he richly deserved.

Before seeing your thread I had decided more or less that I will deal with this the next time I am back in the States. Both of my sisters know about what happened and both will be a great source of support. But now I am absolutely determined! Both my Dad and I were robbed. We are both victims, even today. He does need to hear what happened. He probably wonders to this day what he did wrong as a father. Answer: nothing! He needs to know that, and I need to tell him. Its not just a way of telling that sick bastard: You lose. I dont know how long my father has hes in better health than I am at the moment . But I cant allow him to pass away with that question on his heart. I owe him that.

You and Paulie are victims as well. Your older brother may have said things to keep you two from supporting each other, and going back and forth between you would already be enough to raise a barrier. You feel guilty because you are slightly older; Paulie may feel confused and angry for the same reason. But all of this is unresolved crap from childhood and the fault of someone else, not either of you two. You are both still being hurt even today, and as it happens, you are the one who is in a position to end it. That doesnt mean that it will be easy. There may be a lot of crap to work through, and of course in any one case it gets a lot more complicated than an outsider can understand.

On being gay, Im not gay myself so I cant comment from that perspective. But sure, that may have something to do with it. Paulie may not understand that being gay is part of who you are and not some lifestyle you picked up one day. The hurt child Paulie may wonder if you were gay even as a little boy, which attracted the attention of your older brother, therefore you got things started, blah blah blah. All nonsense of course, but still looks like there is a need to clear the air and do some honest talking here as well.

My huge fear here, Jasper, is that this is coming down as a way too heavy emotional post. There is always the chance, I guess, that an effort on your part could go badly wrong. I just dont know. All I can say is that thanks to your posts I know for sure what I have to do and why, and from what I can see it all fits your situation as well. But thats only my guess. Maybe some of the moderators with some professional experience would have some comment.

Good luck!,
Larry

 

Hello Larry:

I am so glad you did go down that road! Thank you for sharing your story. I get angry just thinking about what that man did to you and also did to your relationship with your Dad. But it sounds like you are very clear now on your decision to tell your father what happened. Good for you!

It's odd but sometimes my flashbacks seem to lead me to post on certain topics, if only to get them out there. Then I'll have more flashbacks, and as scary as they are, they too seem to be pointing the way for me. So I am really glad you brought this up again. Because of what you wrote, I too had a revelation of sorts!

For one thing, I recall now that I had a lot of anger as a child. Like a little volcano boy, I could explode at any moment. And some of that anger was directed against my parents, especially my father. My father was a pretty easy-going guy most of the time, so it was kind of safe to lose it with him. And did I ever!

I guess I too felt that my parents somehow should have known, should have put a stop to it. Why couldn't they see the terror in my eyes when they came home? Why did they believe me when I said everything was fine while they were gone, all the while I was looking down at my shoes? Our older brother was always right there, naturally, standing just out of sight of my parents, giving us warning reminders of what would happen if we told. Still they should have known! At least that's what I felt then. And a part of me still feels now.

I am thinking about what you said about Paulie. It's really stirring up a lot in me, but in a good way, if that makes sense. So I want to take a little time to think on that before I post again.

Larry, I really appreciate this dialogue. It sounds like it's helping both of us, and maybe others here as well.

All the best!

Jasper

 

[roadrunner]

Jasper,

Yes indeed, the dialogue is great and is helping me a lot. Thanks.

Just a quick comment on the theme of "how could they not have known". I had a huge dread of discovery. I was terrified beyond imagining at the possibility my parents would figure out what was happening; after all, I was being warned constantly of the awful consequences if they knew. My abuser's lies made sense because I was feeling more and more worthless anyway. I look back and I can't believe how vigilent I was. I had all the details covered. I invented stories about rough games in the woods or running into a tree and had them ready in advance in case I came home and needed to explain marks or bruises. I had places to stash spotted clothing until I could dash out and put it in the trash.

Another problem is that I don't think there was any real public awareness that this kind of thing was happening. I remember my parents really worrying and watching for things like polio in the summer, dogs that acted strange and might be rabid, etc. But sexuality? Ozzie and Harriet were in separate single beds and masturbating made you go blind. The possibility that something terrible could happen to your son just wasn't on the list.

This still seems to be a problem today. Michael Jackson got off, I think, because people still don't want to know. Several of our younger survivors talk about this. Puppy has some painful posts on it, and I think Charlie has some angry questions asking how his mother could not have known.

There is a lot of emphasis on watching out for danger to your children, and I don't think any man in his right mind would agree to babysit anymore. My wife and I talked to both of our kids about "bad touching". But when it comes to spotting when your child is being hurt, I think there is still almost no information or awareness. Or at least I haven't seen anything.

(Edited to add here that this is just a comment on Jasper's point about his parents not knowing; didn't mean to divert the thread off subject.)

Larry

 

Hello Larry:

What an ugly, evil person you're abuser was. He tried to turn you into a co-conspirator, so to speak. How rotten! Then again, maybe that's what happens with all of us to one extent or another.

My brother had me torn sometimes between wanting to blurt out the truth to my parents and wanting to hush things up. You see, our older brother was a very effective blackmailer. He got us to do little things that my parents didn't like, just so he could have something hanging over our heads.

What kind of things? Oh, things that seem silly now. Like sneaking into the bottom of my Mom's cedar chest. That's where she kept all the "forbidden toys" we were given by well-meaning but not so bright relatives. Gifts like dart guns and stuff like that. She didn't have the heart to throw them out but she didn't want us to play with these gifts either. So that's what our older brother did, get us to feel a little "wicked" by being part of his petty conspiracy. Then turning around and using that...to hurt us or threaten us. You know, Larry? I forgot all about that stuff until now!

Anyhow, thinking about that evil man and his mental poisoning of you, makes me realize how powerful a step it could be telling your Dad! It really sounds like a very important step in your healing. And I'm glad your Dad is in good health, so that maybe he can handle the news.

But me? Talk to Paulie? I don't know about that. I think I had another revelation on that score. Want to hear? Well...all this time I've been feeling guilty, like he blames me for the abuse, for not sticking up for him. And maybe he does to some extent. But I don't think that is why he is so distant from me, why he keeps wanting me close but then doing things that are kind of cruel. Like inviting me to family parties that are planned weeks in advance but not sending me the invitation until it's too late to go. And other little things like that which have been hurtful.

NOW I KNOW THE TRUTH! Somehow he knows if we get together I will want to talk about this. A part of me was trying to have a serious talk with him for years. And that's what he is afraid of! That I will cut through the denial. That I will force that awful thing into the light!

Oh...Larry! Until now I hoped he had only been slapped and punched and kicked and verbally abused like me. Until now I thought maybe the really sick stuff didn't happen to Paulie like it did with me. Oh...Larry! It did. I know it did.

Damn, I know I can't prove this stuff. But somehow I know I'm right. Our older brother turned Paulie into a fellow conspirator. There are things Paulie didn't want my parents to discover when they were alive. And now things Paulie is terrified that I will find out. But the worst of it? Maybe he doesn't know what was done to me. Maybe Paulie doesn't know about the sexual abuse done to me and that's what has him feeling extra jumpy about discovery. He thinks he's all alone in that.

To make matters worse, since our brother died everone in the family has kind of turned him into a saint. We don't speak of him except in happy terms. We tell funny little stories. And make him this person that we kind of honor. Even I play along with that!!!

No, I think if I were ever to talk with Paulie about this...he might cut off all contact with me forever. I don't know. I just don't know. I sure would love to get things out in the open. And swap stories just to confirm what I remember. But I think we would have to have a therapist to get to that place. That seems unthinkable at the moment. I just don't see it ever happening. Even the very suggestion....

Oh...you have given me much to think about. But meanwhile, please tell me more about your Dad. And your plan to speak with him. Will you come to the States? Do it on the phone? Or what? Any thoughts on this?

Take care,

Jasper

 

Hello Again!

After I had a chance to sleep on things, I am adding a few additional points that came to mind. Okay?

Maybe someday it will be important to my healing to talk to Paulie. Better still...maybe it will be important to Paulie's healing to talk to ME! That is, independent of what is happening in my life, maybe he will be drawn to finally seek help for himself.

What would it take for something like that to happen? Well, in my own life, it took a whole series of crises to get me into therapy. And even at that, I told the therapist at first that I was only there to deal with my PTSD. And how it related to a recent stalking incident by a disturbed former neighbor.

Can you believe it? Just a few weeks ago, I told my therapist that it wasn't necessary to get into any of that "childhood abuse stuff." In fact, I probably would have walked out of my therapist's office if she insisted that I do just that.

But very quickly I realized that whatever traumas I experienced as an adult were just the tip. Soon I felt like the Titanic because I hit the iceberg itself! It was all about that "childhood abuse stuff" that I had been hoping to ignore.

So I am now very grateful for the health crises and other matters which finally forced me, out of desperation, to do an Internet search for sites like this. And I am grateful as well to be here talking to you. But a few months ago, I never would have predicted this. Maybe something similar has to happen for Paulie. Does that make sense?

Plus, some of my memories are clear. Others are still surfacing. Before I can talk to Paulie, I need to really begin my healing in earnest, and I can't do that until I finally know what was done to me.

I think that's why I am having so many flashbacks these days. My memories want to make themselves known, in as much detail as I can handle.

Does any of this make sense, Larry? Also, if anyone else is reading this and wants to chime in, please do!

Take care all,

Jasper

 

[roadrunner]

Jasper,

It sure does make sense. I was much the same I suppose. I fought for years to pretend nothing had happened, and even now the more I let go the more I discover how totally this has shaped my life. Every time I think I have conquered a little demon there seem to be ten more huge ones lining up. I would like to think Im not pretending anymore, but even there Im not sure. Denying everything didnt happen in a day, so I suppose facing it doesnt happen in a day either. The comparison to the iceberg absolutely.

I guess sometimes it does take a traumatic event to make you accept reality. Or at least when you talk about that kind of thing it rings true with me. Im not to the point where I can talk about it yet, except to say that for me the point of no return came when my father told me about a few boxes in a corner of the attic that I had stored away as a teenager.

It does seem to me that your brother Paulie is doing the same thing he has denied everything and connecting with you is a threat to his ability to hold that all together. But no wonder. It isnt easier just because now he is an adult. And the fact is that both of you were hurt: neither of you is at fault and neither of you needs to be forgiven.

On the possibility that he was hurt the same way you were, who knows? But in all honesty, you say that your older brother came after one of you and then the other, and then hung around to ensure you didnt tell. Why would he have treated the two of you differently?

On what I will do concerning my own case, all that has become complicated again. Yesterday it was so clear to me, but last night I received an email from my sister my rock! and she had this to say:

If you tell Dad, you are telling Mom. Dad would not be able to keep this from her. I'm still not sure how they would handle this at their age, it would change the rest of their lives till the day they die. I don't remember you as ever being cold or unkind to Dad... I remember you being like every other son going off to college in the 60's - 70's. Times then were horrible....remember the "generation gap", "the establishment" and other coined phrases? Mom and Dad struggled to hold on to stability in raising us (I was not the easiest to get along with as I remember) and we were interested in our music, civil rights, opposition to the Vietnam war, etc. They were traditional, you and I were cutting our own mold. It was an angry time. I don't really know of any real close Dad-Son relationships other than TV characters. I know Mom and Dad are extremely proud of you and love you unconditionally.

So perhaps this is all just my own sense of guilt and shame still messing with my head, even though I know I didnt do anything wrong.

Flashbacks: There is discussion on the DB now about handling them, and once again I realize how poorly I am coping. It astonished me that anyone can actually do that. When one of those things gets me I am back to 11 years old and not just seeing him right there, but feeling the cruelty and danger and worthlessness as if they were physical things there with him. I cant think of anything else and I just disintegrate.

If I ever do get back to a real decision about telling my father I know I would not be calling him on the telephone. I would want to be there with him and support him, and my sister is right: my mother is in the picture as well.

What hurts the most isn't even about me or any one person at all. It's how can anybody do this to a defenseless innocent child?

Larry

 

So perhaps this is all just my own sense of guilt and shame still messing with my head, even though I know I didnt do anything wrong.

Hello Larry:

Your sister sounds like a really nice person, a person who cares about you, and your parents a lot. However, she is not a survivor. So it is hard for her to understand what I think is the driving force for you. Candidly, I wasn't sure of it myself until we began this dialogue. Now I think I do. May I take a crack at explaining it? Tell me if I am right or way off base, okay?

Yes, on one level it is about wishing you weren't robbed of the kind of father-son relationship you could have had, might have had. And that's probably your weakest argument with your sister. Because she's right, there was a chasm of difference back then between "us" and "them." My parents were traditional too. I think my father once caught me reading "Portnoy's Complaint" and was horrified! And I used to argue with him over EVERYTHING! Part of that was a 60's-70's thing. Part of it was standard adolescent rebellion. But part of that was, I think, a sexual abuse thing.

Even with the backdrop of the generation gap, we may never know what kind of relationship you might have had with your Dad. That chance was stolen from you along with your innocence. But the very best reason I think to want to tell your parents now is this:

In my mind I can see the little boy you once were, coming home with the soiled underwear or whatever, and hiding them, making excuses, covering up. That little boy needed to tell. That little boy desperately wanted the truth to come out. And now that you know that all your abuser's threats were falsehoods, that little boy has an even greater need to tell.

It does get tricky. I will agree with your sister on that. For me, I was spared the burden of this question. My Dad died when I was still a young man and Mom died in 1999, when I was mostly in denial. Had I been given the choice, though, it might have been easier for me. Why? Well, my mother really did have some very serious health problems in those last few years. With her still grieving the death of her son (demon that he was to me), the shock of everything might have been too much for her heart to handle--literally!

So with your Dad being 80 and your Mom (I assume) in roughly the same age bracket, that health question will naturally come up.

Your sister will say, too, that you are shattering whatever remains of their golden years, whatever contentment they can look back upon. And perhaps there is no arguing with that. But as I said at the outset, your sister is not a survivor. As loving as she is, she cannot know the deep need you feel to finally break the silence. And that horrible question hangs in the air:

What happens if they die without your ever being able to speak the truth? What happens to that little boy then?

Since my memories started surfacing, I wish I could pick up the phone and talk to Mom. The need feels so strong, even with all the potential problems I mentioned. And that need will now stay with me. I cannot turn back time.

Larry, you still have a chance. Whatever you decide, I know will be right for you. I'm sure you will take into consideration your parents' feelings, and your sister's feelings. But most of all, please think of that little boy!

All for now. Will write more later.

Jasper

 

If you tell Dad, you are telling Mom. Dad would not be able to keep this from her. I'm still not sure how they would handle this at their age, it would change the rest of their lives till the day they die.

Hello Again, Larry:

I wanted to add this postscript to my last entry. Read the above, okay? I think here your sister is also acknowledging that HER life will change forever. But of course! Your sister may have some embarrassment or concern, especially if she happens to have children. Or other relatives may have to talk openly about subjects they would rather not face.

But here's the point for you to remember always:

YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR PARENTS' PAIN, YOUR SISTER'S PAIN, OR ANYONE ELSE'S PAIN. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BE ASHAMED OF. AND DAMN RIGHT, TELLING WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING. WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU CHANGED YOUR LIFE FOREVER!

Okay, let me step down from my soap box and stop yelling here.

What I wanted to say is that your sister is also acknowledging that this could really happen, that she can really see your telling both Dad and Mom. And, of course, she is frightened. God bless her! She wouldn't be a caring sister if she didn't wonder what affect this would have on everyone.

But you know what, Larry? Here's where all those wonderful qualities in you come into play. You are still that little boy and for that little boy you need to tell (IMHO). But you are also a very wise, very sensitive adult. You can figure out how to do it in such a way as to minimize the shock to your parents. You can have pamphlets ready, maybe even a third party they can talk to (like a spiritial counselor, a therapist, a family doctor or a trusted family member who is closer to them in age).

Larry, I know you are a strong man. And I know your sister is your rock. And I know together you can figure out how to do this. Plus I have no doubts that once you make the decision, once your sister gets behind you, things will fall into place.

But if you find yourself having doubts? Having moments of fear? Remind yourself, Larry, that you are doing it for that little boy who is hurting. And the good that you do for one little boy who hurts, you do for all!

Courage, my friend!

Jasper

 

[roadrunner]

Hi Jasper,

Thanks again for all your ideas and encouragement. I can see that you are absolutely right and next time let me help you get back up on the soapbox!

All this came up again today with a trusted friend of mine in my Faculty. We were sitting in a wonderful little cafe over a coffee and she asked me two things:

1. Wouldn't I want my own son, now 21, to tell me such a thing and ask for my help regardless of my age?

2. If I tell my Dad, aren't I basically rejecting the fear stuck in me by my abuser so many years ago and replacing it with the trust that every good Dad wants his son to have for him?

I suppose what I need to do now is remember my answers!

Larry

 

Wow!

Those are two very perfect questions. And I know you will remember the answers.

Do you mind if I ask you another question? I'm just curious. Have you been able to speak to your son about the abuse? And do you think the abuse changed anything about the way you raised him?

Just curious. Hope those questions about your son don't trigger.

Take care, Larry.

All for now,

Jasper

 

[roadrunner]

Hi Jasper,

This one is off-topic but I think its important: your comments about heterophobia. Actually, I don't think its a phobia, it's a real apprehension. "Straight" men can be unbelievable hypocrites when it comes to sexuality. They may be accepting and accommodating to a gay guy's face, but see what happens when he leaves - pretty soon there will be remarks, jokes and so forth. And end of the day many straight men are nervous about having gay friends for fear of being labelled.

Here I will repeat what I said to another gay friend here in a PM: In many cases I find gay men more approachable and honest about their feelings than "straight" (whatever that means) men. I had a really good friend in university who is gay, and he was a housemate of mine. He came out and immediately began to get unbelievable crap from his parents ("I didn't know you could hate me this much", "Look what you are doing to your father", "We sacrificed everything and this is what we get?"). At university most of his friends ran for cover. So right at the time when he needed support the most he was abandoned on all sides. He is Jewish and I am Protestant and he is younger than I am, so I suppose at first he wasn't sure what to make of the fact that I wasn't snubbing him. But we soon became like older and younger brothers. A lot of the time all I could do was listen, since he was talking about things way out of my experience. But that seemed to help.

How close we had become came out when I won several national competitions for graduate students in the humanities. There was a huge fuss over all this in my department, but my friend's reaction meant the most to me. He told me that he appreciated that I had stuck with him even when people began to gossip about me as well, and that my support had gotten him through university. So he wanted to say thanks by taking me to see his New York. Gay shops, his gay synagogue, gay bookstores, his gay grocery store, gay bakery (? - never did figure that one out), gay bars, the whole thing, but during the day so I wouldn't get hit on or embarrassed too badly. Then in the evening, when we would absolutely have to get away from Christopher Street, he would take me to the best Chinese restaurant in Chinatown.

So off we went, and I have to say it was an amazing experience. I was totally in another world all day long, but I was always made to feel welcome. The humor and good spirit of the whole thing was constant: "This is my friend Larry - he's straight so don't even start". I don't know why, but the highlight of the day was this shop full of humorous gay greeting cards. I thought I would laugh myself into a fit. I kid you not - I was begging them to stop, I was hurting so much with laughter, but they kept showing me more cards.

From that year I learned a lot about cruelty, but also about tolerance and human relationships. My friend retaught me something I had learned from my Dad but denied for many years: that it is okay for a man to be vulnerable and emotional. I don't think that is a specifically "gay thing" (theme of much humor through that year), but I guess gay men are obliged to come to terms with it more directly in a world that can be very homophobic.

Larry

 

Hello Larry!

Actually you didn't stray too far from the topic! I appreciated hearing about your gay friend, especially his painful experiences in coming out to his family. It gives me a chance to talk about my experiences with my own Dad. And in turn, the dilemma of talking to your Dad about the sexual abuse.

First let me tell you about my father. He was a very easy-going man. He was always telling jokes. Or singing and whistling around the house. Plus he could be rather indulgent with us kids. The only thing that really set him off was anyone swearing. Not even "damn" was allowed!

So perhaps you can imagine what it was like to come out to this very conservative, very Catholic gentleman of the old school. I was 18 at the time. Already I was living with a man a few years older than me. This was before Andy, by the way. And the game of explaining him away as "just my roommate" got really old very fast. So I told my sister, and she insisted I tell my Mom, then my Mom insisted I tell father.

Oh, my! Poor father had never considered me being sexual, let alone homosexual! He yelled. I yelled back. He screamed. I screamed louder. He threatened to punch my lover in the nose. I threatened never to see him again. And for the next couple of years, he refused to even speak with my lover.

Then an amazing thing happened. My partner and I decided to move to California. My sister hosted a going away party for me and my lover. To my way of thinking it was all a big plot to get my man in a room somewhere and beat him with a rubber hose. But no, everyone was very cordial. Especially my Dad! He called my lover into a room for a private conference, officially welcomed him into the family, and for the rest of my father's life, my lover was treated like a favorite son. Unfortunately, the "rest of his life" wasn't very long. Dad died a few years later. (And my lover took off not long after that but we'll save that story for another time.)

So what's the point of this story? Had I never risked my father's wrath, he never would have been given a chance to come to peace with me before he passed. I didn't know it then--but my Dad had cancer. He didn't want to say anything because he was afraid my lover and I would change our plans and not move to California. But he knew the time remaining was uncertain. And that horrible experience of coming out to Dad proved to be one of the smartest things I ever did.

Now please don't get the wrong idea! My coming out to my father and your revealing the sexual abuse to your Dad are on two very separate planes. I don't want anyone here to take offense at the very hint that my sexual orientation and your sexual abuse are somehow the same. They are not. And what that cruel man did to you and your family....well, I just get really angry even thinking about him. It's just that I never had the experience (nor will I) of revealing my own sexual abuse to my parents. They are both dead. So the only thing I can draw on is the "coming out" experience. And my coming out was as painful as they come.

Larry, you need to be given a chance to come to peace with your Dad. That little boy inside the man needs to have that chance. But most of all, your Dad needs the chance to finally hear you! What will he do? What will your mother do? What will they say? How will it affect them? There are some things you can't know. Who knows, for example, exactly how they would have reacted when you were 11? There are just some things that have to be done. And this has to be done now. In my humble opinion.

What do you think, Larry?

All the best,

Jasper

 

[roadrunner]

Hi Jasper,

You are again catching me with all sorts of things I can't answer on the spur of the moment. I will have to think a bit, and as I say in another thread, one thing that is happening these days is that I find myself utterly overwhelmed by many things that I previously thought I had figured out.

For the moment, back to something else you asked: does my son know. No he doesn't. I told my wife first, then later my daughter, both privately and alone so we would not be disturbed. An opportunity to do that with my son has not arisen yet, largely because 1) he works long hours, and 2) he is young and lively with a full "social schedule", shall we say .

At one level I suppose the way I raised my son must have been affected by what happened to me, though by the time he was born I had been in denial for years. I remember being extremely protective, and when he was down with the usual very uncomfortable illnesses I took time off to be with him. I have always told him that my work is just "professor rubbish" and he can barge in anytime, and we have done a lot of things that have been just for him - camping, flying kites, swimming, "scary bones museums" (dinosaurs), and so forth. He has been with me on research trips all over the world and we have made scrapbooks of all the places he has been.

When he was a teen we had our blowups over all the usual things I think (who makes the rules, chores, curfew, etc.), but now I can see things improving again. He's a rock musician and we talk a lot about that and what his plans are.

So how me being a survivor affected him when he was small I just don't know. In his later teen years there have probably been difficulties, since trying to put denial behind me has dropped me into another world of troubles. But there too I just don't know.

Best wishes from sunny muggy Germany,
Larry