The District, Saturday, Jan 4th 03 "CAUTION" CUSSING
The District, Saturday, Jan 4th 03 "CAUTION" CUSSING
- Thread starterRJD
- Start date
Well this topic hit home for me in so many ways.
"God wants you to do this for me"
Where the words Father Ryan said to me when i was 11 YO. Ya he took God's name in evil. I was tring to stop him from taken my paints off but when he said that it got to me. What the hell ,God wanted me to let Father Ryan rape me???????
I was a child and was always told that the priest was to be obeyed. After he started raping me all I could think about was why would God want this to happen to me. After a few moments I started tring to get away from him because MY GOD, Ya MY GOD didn't want this to happen.
My God did hear my crys and sent the housekeeper down to that room in the basement to stop Father Ryan. She keep knocking on the door until Father stopped his evil . I was able to run out of there never to be a altar boy again.
I have believed in MY GOD ever sense that day but couldn't have anything to do with the church. Like others here I have a super hard time being in a church,and when at weddings I always set in the back ready to run out. Spirituality is what it is all about for me and in so many ways god has been in my life since that day. Muldoon
"God wants you to do this for me"
Where the words Father Ryan said to me when i was 11 YO. Ya he took God's name in evil. I was tring to stop him from taken my paints off but when he said that it got to me. What the hell ,God wanted me to let Father Ryan rape me???????
I was a child and was always told that the priest was to be obeyed. After he started raping me all I could think about was why would God want this to happen to me. After a few moments I started tring to get away from him because MY GOD, Ya MY GOD didn't want this to happen.
My God did hear my crys and sent the housekeeper down to that room in the basement to stop Father Ryan. She keep knocking on the door until Father stopped his evil . I was able to run out of there never to be a altar boy again.
I have believed in MY GOD ever sense that day but couldn't have anything to do with the church. Like others here I have a super hard time being in a church,and when at weddings I always set in the back ready to run out. Spirituality is what it is all about for me and in so many ways god has been in my life since that day. Muldoon
If that isn't taking Gods' Name in vain, then I don't know what is! That "priest" usurped God's authority & used it to take control over you!
Muldoon, my friend, I'm so sorry about the horrible things that so-called priest did to you.
Yet I'm glad, and somewhat amazed, that even as you went thru this living nightmare, you were able to make the distinction between the "man of God" (NOT!) and God, your God, as opposed to the "priests'" God, which was something different altogether...
Muldoon, I'm glad this evil man was stopped. I don't wonder that you have a hard time being in a church. Your continuing faith in your God, church or no, is inspiring. Becuz as you obviously know, there is a big difference...
Take care friend
Victor
Hey Muldoon,
My perp tricked me into closing my eyes so I couldnt see how he was about to trick me. When he was threatening me afterwards, he was yelling at me for what he told me to do. I said "you told me to!" Even though I couldn't see, so I didn't know what he was tricking me into doing. After I said that he told me that no one would ever know that. I said "God knows". He said "There is no God!".
3 years later I had a really bad athsma attack and I cried out and foolishly assumed I recieved no answer. After that I was an athiest for 12 years. When I think back I used to say "There is no God" probably just like he did. It wasn't easy to live without the idea of a God for that long. (Now I'm 1000 percent sure there is one, its a long story). My conscience wouldn't allow me to do what anything at all anyway.
Anxiety, despair and imposible burdens characterized that time for me, as well as a constant search for any reason to wake up the next morning. This is what it says about that in the bible: Mark 9:41 "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward. 42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea."
I was lucky enough to find a really good example of someone who claimed to be a christian, I hope you do to.
My perp tricked me into closing my eyes so I couldnt see how he was about to trick me. When he was threatening me afterwards, he was yelling at me for what he told me to do. I said "you told me to!" Even though I couldn't see, so I didn't know what he was tricking me into doing. After I said that he told me that no one would ever know that. I said "God knows". He said "There is no God!".
3 years later I had a really bad athsma attack and I cried out and foolishly assumed I recieved no answer. After that I was an athiest for 12 years. When I think back I used to say "There is no God" probably just like he did. It wasn't easy to live without the idea of a God for that long. (Now I'm 1000 percent sure there is one, its a long story). My conscience wouldn't allow me to do what anything at all anyway.
Anxiety, despair and imposible burdens characterized that time for me, as well as a constant search for any reason to wake up the next morning. This is what it says about that in the bible: Mark 9:41 "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward. 42 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea."
I was lucky enough to find a really good example of someone who claimed to be a christian, I hope you do to.
Victor Thanks for you words and understanding of my beliefs in not being part of organized churches. It makes me lonely at time when I see others who get so much love from their faiths. Maybe someday that can be part of my world but not now.
Les-Angry
I have always had great respect for all spiritual beliefs. The nuns and me use to get into big arguments about their bullshit about only Catholics going to heaven. Ya back in the early 60.s the nuns would tell us that only THE TRUE BELIVERS (Catholic) would go to heaven and we should try to convert our none catholic friends so they would be up there with us. I would tell the nuns that my God would let all GOOD people go his heaven.
I grew to believe in the Beliefs of the American Indians, which gave me some inner peace and hope for my life.
"We want to know Christianity through our ancient ways, not just through the ways of non-Indian. We want to believe that what we know within us is true. To be forced to believe otherwise is to destroy what we are."
From the book, Land of the Four Directions about the Indians of Maine.
It angered me to learn what the Christian faiths where doing to kill Indian spiritual beliefs. This just drove me farther away from the Christian churches.
Muldoon
Les-Angry
I am so sorry that you went through so much of you life with no god but you now have a full faith in Your GOD. Thanks for all your quote from the bible,I don't read the book put i enjoy your imput to our discussions. Below our some more of my throught on GOD
I have always had great respect for all spiritual beliefs. The nuns and me use to get into big arguments about their bullshit about only Catholics going to heaven. Ya back in the early 60.s the nuns would tell us that only THE TRUE BELIVERS (Catholic) would go to heaven and we should try to convert our none catholic friends so they would be up there with us. I would tell the nuns that my God would let all GOOD people go his heaven.
I grew to believe in the Beliefs of the American Indians, which gave me some inner peace and hope for my life.
"We want to know Christianity through our ancient ways, not just through the ways of non-Indian. We want to believe that what we know within us is true. To be forced to believe otherwise is to destroy what we are."
From the book, Land of the Four Directions about the Indians of Maine.
It angered me to learn what the Christian faiths where doing to kill Indian spiritual beliefs. This just drove me farther away from the Christian churches.
Muldoon
Hey Muldoon,
I think those nuns may have meant well, but they don't represent the views of their church. Here are the official words on the subject. They are taken from the most recent Catechism of the Catholic Church. The words regarding this subject were based on the Vatican II council which took place in the early '60's at the same time as those conversations.
Discussions on the subject are included in chapters 839 to 845 (specifically in chapter 843) in the Catechism:
https://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church3.html#Apostolic
I'll paste them here in case you cant get to the website:
Mo Healing
I think those nuns may have meant well, but they don't represent the views of their church. Here are the official words on the subject. They are taken from the most recent Catechism of the Catholic Church. The words regarding this subject were based on the Vatican II council which took place in the early '60's at the same time as those conversations.
Discussions on the subject are included in chapters 839 to 845 (specifically in chapter 843) in the Catechism:
https://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/church3.html#Apostolic
I'll paste them here in case you cant get to the website:
I dont know what those nuns were thinking, maybe they truely believed that and thought they were saving you. It violates Matthew 7 to jump to conclusions about thier motives. Maybe this quote from chapter 844 of the catechism applies, who knows:
I think maybe in a nutshell they are saying: "cant we all just get along?"
Mo Healing
I'm not here to be corrected. It is my heart that needs healing. For that to happen, my heart must feel safe. My heart does not feel safer just because words have been written. Just because something is written somewhere, it doesn't make it so. I'm here to express the pain of my experience. There are still plenty of people who say "God" has taken away their pain so they don't need therapy, then go on to inflict misery on the hearts of othere. I also believe that 3 therapy sessions is not going to cure the results of profound trauma. There are still people acting on pain from their histories and passing this pain on to others, then justifying it. The church isn't the only entity that needs a call to accountability for the harm done to children.
RJD, my brother, your post is so right on in so many ways.
Me, I still can get pretty aggravated with people who try to fill me with info & advice as tho just the "right" (if it is right) knowledge about something will help me feel better about it.
Sometimes I've got more knowledge than I can handle. It may make me feel better, or worse.
The right info can help when given at a time & in a way that it can be received. For me that usually means when I ask for it, and not when I'm venting feelings.
It's like people trying to comfort me & help me feel better may not help much when I'm asking for info about say where a support group meeting is or for some book titles about dealing with flashbacks. Well intended, but of limited value, & sometimes even irritating.
On the other hand, the various branches of the media, the government, schools, day care centers, and countless other institutions are also guilty of abuse & of promoting abuse (to me there's little if any difference).
This is my concern about the current emphasis on abuse in the church. I think it's appropriate, but I think it's detracting focus from other hotbeds of abuse that need attention as well. Of course resources are limited, and I do as a Christian think the church is a good place to start in cleaning up abuse.
Except the church should be cleaning up its own act. Too bad so many are unwilling to do that...
Little bro, thanks for sharing your feelings and your insights. Take care.
Victor
This is something that even we as survivors can have difficulty remembering about each other, our ourselves.
Me, I still can get pretty aggravated with people who try to fill me with info & advice as tho just the "right" (if it is right) knowledge about something will help me feel better about it.
Sometimes I've got more knowledge than I can handle. It may make me feel better, or worse.
The right info can help when given at a time & in a way that it can be received. For me that usually means when I ask for it, and not when I'm venting feelings.
It's like people trying to comfort me & help me feel better may not help much when I'm asking for info about say where a support group meeting is or for some book titles about dealing with flashbacks. Well intended, but of limited value, & sometimes even irritating.
Neither spirituality or psychology is a magic pill or prescription to just take away the pain & consequences of trauma. Going to church every Sunday or going to a T every week for the rest of my life will not take that away. But it will help--if I am sincere in my spirituality and with my T.
I do consider the church more accountable becuz people who go to church, especially church leaders, and those who profess to be Christians, are supposed to be different.
On the other hand, the various branches of the media, the government, schools, day care centers, and countless other institutions are also guilty of abuse & of promoting abuse (to me there's little if any difference).
This is my concern about the current emphasis on abuse in the church. I think it's appropriate, but I think it's detracting focus from other hotbeds of abuse that need attention as well. Of course resources are limited, and I do as a Christian think the church is a good place to start in cleaning up abuse.
Except the church should be cleaning up its own act. Too bad so many are unwilling to do that...
Little bro, thanks for sharing your feelings and your insights. Take care.
Victor
Dear RJD:
As a survivor of physical and sexual abuse by Catholic clergy I appreciate your views and anger at the TV episode. I have spent many years of my life reflecting on what happened to me and God's role in it. I was abused as an inmate in a catholic reformatory as a young teenager. For many years I carried an immense hatred for the church, catholic priests and other such elements.
I do not think that the district's writers or producers really understand the complexity of what sexual abuse does to victims. I am being polite but their point of view seemed idiotic as described and portrayed.
I personally believe that any level of forgiveness, "backing off" or "letting" issues "go" is the sacred property of the victim. The victim should decide if, when and how. Others should not intrude on that issue without respect and sensitivity; and then only with permission. So many well meaning others have said we should let go and get on with our lives. I find it particularly galling when a person uses the bible to suggest that course of action.
I notice that Jesus was pretty loving but even he took a moment or two to drive the money changers out of the temple for committing such an obvious error. I have reached the point in my life where I am not pissed off at God as much as I was. In addition, I refuse to let those that abused me escape any level of responsibility for their actions under the technicality that "God made everything". I may sound casual here but that point was very difficult for me to deal with for a long time. I have made choices as to what position or feelings I have maintained towards my abusers. They are mine alone and although I had help to understand my feelings; I as the victim was in charge of decisions regarding forgiveness or letting go. I also must note that I view justice and forgiveness as two different things in regards to child abuse.
I feel each of us must come to our own conclusions as to the issue of forgiveness or any level of acceptance that it happened, etc. I am grateful I had some help to sort it out but my therapist was very creful about the process and never pushed or led the issue. I also learned a few things in the process:
1. My anger was like a stallion. A thrill to ride but often in charge and out of control.
2. I rode my anger out of many good and bad places until it was all I had left to have or to give.
3. I still ride my anger at times. It is more of a gelding now. It is fast and fun to ride at times but it does not fight so much with my other rides like loving and being loved. It also knows to head to the barn sooner and I don't have to walk home so much after getting thrown off.
4. When I pull on the reins of my anger it now responds quicker. As a result it has been a while since I have been dragged along fences, thrown into trees or tangled up in wires.
Sincerely
Ross
As a survivor of physical and sexual abuse by Catholic clergy I appreciate your views and anger at the TV episode. I have spent many years of my life reflecting on what happened to me and God's role in it. I was abused as an inmate in a catholic reformatory as a young teenager. For many years I carried an immense hatred for the church, catholic priests and other such elements.
I do not think that the district's writers or producers really understand the complexity of what sexual abuse does to victims. I am being polite but their point of view seemed idiotic as described and portrayed.
I personally believe that any level of forgiveness, "backing off" or "letting" issues "go" is the sacred property of the victim. The victim should decide if, when and how. Others should not intrude on that issue without respect and sensitivity; and then only with permission. So many well meaning others have said we should let go and get on with our lives. I find it particularly galling when a person uses the bible to suggest that course of action.
I notice that Jesus was pretty loving but even he took a moment or two to drive the money changers out of the temple for committing such an obvious error. I have reached the point in my life where I am not pissed off at God as much as I was. In addition, I refuse to let those that abused me escape any level of responsibility for their actions under the technicality that "God made everything". I may sound casual here but that point was very difficult for me to deal with for a long time. I have made choices as to what position or feelings I have maintained towards my abusers. They are mine alone and although I had help to understand my feelings; I as the victim was in charge of decisions regarding forgiveness or letting go. I also must note that I view justice and forgiveness as two different things in regards to child abuse.
I feel each of us must come to our own conclusions as to the issue of forgiveness or any level of acceptance that it happened, etc. I am grateful I had some help to sort it out but my therapist was very creful about the process and never pushed or led the issue. I also learned a few things in the process:
1. My anger was like a stallion. A thrill to ride but often in charge and out of control.
2. I rode my anger out of many good and bad places until it was all I had left to have or to give.
3. I still ride my anger at times. It is more of a gelding now. It is fast and fun to ride at times but it does not fight so much with my other rides like loving and being loved. It also knows to head to the barn sooner and I don't have to walk home so much after getting thrown off.
4. When I pull on the reins of my anger it now responds quicker. As a result it has been a while since I have been dragged along fences, thrown into trees or tangled up in wires.
Sincerely
Ross
Ross:
I agree with Muldoon, and that's a great metaphor for anger you use. I gotta remember that too!
"I feel each of us must come to our own conclusions as to the issue of forgiveness or any level of acceptance that it happened, etc. I am grateful I had some help to sort it out but my therapist was very creful about the process and never pushed or led the issue."
Ross I sure affirm that too; and I'm also fortunate enuf to have a T like that.
This I especially appreciate:
"In addition, I refuse to let those that abused me escape any level of responsibility for their actions under the technicality that "God made everything"."
Good for you. Do they think God "made" what they did to you?! Stupid arguement for them!
In fact, in my belief, it is just becuz God made everything that their actions were inexcusable and the measure of their responsibility--and accountability to God--is full!
You were/are made by God in God's own image, sacred & special, as we all are. Thus to abuse you, to abuse anybody, is detestable! Especially for those who should know this and who should know--and do--better!
Ross, I'm glad you have a good T and that you are working your recovery, your process, your way. WTG & take care.
Victor
I agree with Muldoon, and that's a great metaphor for anger you use. I gotta remember that too!
"I feel each of us must come to our own conclusions as to the issue of forgiveness or any level of acceptance that it happened, etc. I am grateful I had some help to sort it out but my therapist was very creful about the process and never pushed or led the issue."
Ross I sure affirm that too; and I'm also fortunate enuf to have a T like that.
This I especially appreciate:
"In addition, I refuse to let those that abused me escape any level of responsibility for their actions under the technicality that "God made everything"."
Good for you. Do they think God "made" what they did to you?!
Stupid arguement for them! In fact, in my belief, it is just becuz God made everything that their actions were inexcusable and the measure of their responsibility--and accountability to God--is full!
You were/are made by God in God's own image, sacred & special, as we all are. Thus to abuse you, to abuse anybody, is detestable! Especially for those who should know this and who should know--and do--better!
Ross, I'm glad you have a good T and that you are working your recovery, your process, your way. WTG & take care.
Victor