. The Challenge of Recognizing an Abusive Woman (new title)

Celtaf

Registrant
Clickbait title I know. Let me put up a disclaimer first.
1. I do not believe all, or even most women are evil. I believe that women, just as men, can have a latent tendency towards a lack of empathy, compassion, responsibility and sense of fairness.

2. Moreover, personally, I do not hate the vast majority of women. I would not be where I am today without two wonderfully loving women--my grandmother and her sister, my great-aunt--who were consistently kind and good to me, though they were powerless to prevent my abuse.

Unfortunate that I must make this disclaimer, but for many progressive people there is a horror of anti-feminism that surpasses any compassion for male victims at times.

One of the things I believe many people struggle with is a societal reluctance to come to terms with the fact that women can be evil, and Many times are .
Part of this manifests in stereotypes about women.
1. That women are natural nurturers. Mother's Day is celebrated with this in mind. There are popular quotes like "mother is the word for God on the lips of children." The image of the loving mother is a compelling one. I don't hate this image, because the idea of a good mother is wonderful. But I do not trust it, because of my experiences.

2. That women do not instigate violence or cruelty.

3. That if women DO instigate violence or cruelty, it is a weird, rare thing. There are many who believe, still, that women CANNOT be abusive.

4. That emphasizing women causing men or boys to suffer would take away from limited focus and compassion for women.

Now, I have only met a few people who were women's advocates who admitted that this was a problem. And, to be fair, one of them was a counselor at the Men's Resource Centre I attended which was under the umbrella of a women's health organization.

I am, again, not saying this to stir up resentment for women, but I believe that this is part of why it is hard for men to get help. For my own part, it is part of why I am very cautious about who I talk to about my past.

It seems to me that the best way to deal with this is for men to help one another, to welcome women when they DO want to help (but not to expect compassion or fairness about it) and create stronger support networks for one another.
 
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It's very hard to argue with anything you've written here, @Celtaf. Until we accept that women can be perpetrators, we'll never understand that men can also be victims.
 

GarryDex

Registrant
I have already stated parts of my story here. At the age of 13 through 15 I was repeatedly sexually assaulted by a statistic female sexual predator. I could go on to detail of the things that were done to me. I could also tell you stories of the things that I did because I was so scared. These things even now hold sway over me. It's not that uncommon for me to be physically ill and throw up recalling the things I did and we're done to me.

One thing she did at least twice a day if not more was to sodomize me. Is she's yelling derogatory homosexual names of me. Telling me I'll be grateful for what she's doing to me. Tell me I'd be a good bitch for somebody. Talk about a mixed message to get from somebody. When she would penetrate me it would be with fingers, handles of objects other things I can't talk about now. It's a nice realization at the age of 13 I learned that I was nothing but a thing. An object that she'd torment for her own sexual gratification. Long-term lesson I learned I was made to suffer.

Maybe I'll tell my whole story sometime of the things that I did. These things were inhumanely degrading and difficult for me to even think about. I can't imagine what people would do if they knew what happened to me. How they would treat me if they knew what I did. How she would end up leaving scars on my perineum from her digging in her thumbnails just to teach me lesson and who's in charge.

To make it worse for me anyhow, is the realization that because I never told anybody she most likely became some other child's monster. I've talked this over my therapist, she also agreed that she was most likely a serial sexual predator. Some days I live in fear of what my next trigger is going to be, when it's going to happen.

So no you don't have to tell me about the evils that women do. I can tell you that the woman who used to watch me when I was younger was a true monster.
 

Celtaf

Registrant
Part of why I wrote this is that I struggle with a deep sense of shame even for talking about my concerns. I've noticed how in public settings any degree of male anxiety surrounding women is met with mockery or suspicion. I even experienced this while involved with a discussion group on #MeToo. Yet on the other hand when I told others that I had had this experience, I got the response "They weren't really supporters of #MeToo." As though people who support a public interest group could not be mistaken, confused, or inappropriate! And furthermore there are a number of articles that have been written, cautioning men who have suffered abuse to not interfere with women's telling of their stories. So in other words, we are not equally welcome among survivors.

This is not merely resentment. It has required me to force myself to deal with matters of my healing, knowing that I have to be extremely wary of who I talk to.

I read a message sent from MaleSurvivor a couple of years ago, urging people to let compassion lead the way in this, and to forgive women for their anxiety around men having a bad effect on us. I find that this is very hard and has had a bad effect on my healing. No one has ever given me an idea of what to do about it except to manage my own emotions and concerns. This is doubly hard because of the degree to which I hate myself.
 
I read a message sent from MaleSurvivor a couple of years ago, urging people to let compassion lead the way in this, and to forgive women for their anxiety around men having a bad effect on us.
This would be a lot easier to do if it was reciprocated, but I've found that it rarely is. Not only do angry women deny that it really ISN'T all men that are the cause of their suffering, they also seem to enjoy denying any possible male victimhood - and the wheel turns around and around and the gender war continues indefinitely.

I do not think it's on men to forgive women their anger - I think the short-circuiting of the cycle necessarily has to come from women. Because most everyone assumes this is a patriarchal society and men have it so much better than women in every way, it's going to have to be up to women to take the lead to say, "Hey, almost all men really don't suck." Men who attempt to get that message across are derided as MRAs, misogynists, or worse.

That said, as individual men we don't have to add to the anger and recrimination. Instead of fighting, we can simply withdraw when we hear women insult all men. That's difficult, and can lead to bitterness, but some days it may be the best we can do if we can't muster compassion.
 

Celtaf

Registrant
This would be a lot easier to do if it was reciprocated, but I've found that it rarely is. Not only do angry women deny that it really ISN'T all men that are the cause of their suffering, they also seem to enjoy denying any possible male victimhood - and the wheel turns around and around and the gender war continues indefinitely.

I do not think it's on men to forgive women their anger - I think the short-circuiting of the cycle necessarily has to come from women. Because most everyone assumes this is a patriarchal society and men have it so much better than women in every way, it's going to have to be up to women to take the lead to say, "Hey, almost all men really don't suck." Men who attempt to get that message across are derided as MRAs, misogynists, or worse.

That said, as individual men we don't have to add to the anger and recrimination. Instead of fighting, we can simply withdraw when we hear women insult all men. That's difficult, and can lead to bitterness, but some days it may be the best we can do if we can't muster compassion.
I generally agree with everything you're saying about forgiveness, and the short circuiting of the cycle. That's a good sounding phrase, it makes me think of my own CBT processing.

The thing is, lately, I'm so tired. I'm having trouble locating an affordable form of therapy in my location, and I feel just drained with all this. There's only so much I feel that I can do. I feel like I'm constantly wading through a stream of self hatred. So you're right, withdrawing is often the best that we can do.
 

dark empathy

Registrant
What I'm getting sick of myself, is the constant veneration of women, that somehow the simple act of being female makes a person special.
this has always existed to some extent, just look at how women leave the sinking ship first and men are left to drown, or some of the rules of chivalry where women had to be protected even at the expense of men's lives, but now all of that cultural baggage is going ontop of the modern idea that all women are victims of the patriarchy so need to be directly encouraged and told how special they are, and of course men need to be shown as weak, cowardly, stupid or evil by contrast.

A great example was the recent wheel of time adaptation, which not only literally changed the main character from male to female, but made every male character as cowardly, unpleasant or and unnoticed as possible, and making all of their motivations female centric, while having everyone tell us literally how wonderful all of the female characters are.

Indeed, for a book series which (admittedly occasionally with problems), explored a lot of misandry and misapplied gender relations with the ultimate message that men and women are fundamentally different but work best together, the adaptation is a positive travesty, but that seems to be the standard now.

I admit, I'm finding it hard to emotionally believe in gender equality when so much in current culture is themed rabidly around the women good, men bad dynamic.

indeed, I saw a review the other day which praised a book series for having strong female characters and embrasing "women's liberation", and my immediate thought was: "liberation from what?"

Oh yes, in the past certainly women have had an extremely bad time and things definitely needed changing, ditto with some parts of the world, but in your average western country?


ore, indeed one feminist once told me that desiring gender equality was "A very male perspective",


I confess I'm finding this massive amount of women worship very difficult to deal with, especially considering how generally crappy my life is at the moment (or in general), particularly because of women in positions of power, which doesn't exactly help me tolerate the currently lopsided situation.

Luke.
 
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Celtaf

Registrant
What I'm getting sick of myself, is the constant veneration of women, that somehow the simple act of being female makes a person special.
this has always existed to some extent, just look at how women leave the sinking ship first and men are left to drown, or some of the rules of chivalry where women had to be protected even at the expense of men's lives, but now all of that cultural baggage is going ontop of the modern idea that all women are victims of the patriarchy so need to be directly encouraged and told how special they are, and of course men need to be shown as weak, cowardly, stupid or evil by contrast.

A great example was the recent wheel of time adaptation, which not only literally changed the main character from male to female, but made every male character as cowardly, unpleasant or and unnoticed as possible, and making all of their motivations female centric, while having everyone tell us literally how wonderful all of the female characters are.

Indeed, for a book series which (admittedly occasionally with problems), explored a lot of misandry and misapplied gender relations with the ultimate message that men and women are fundamentally different but work best together, the adaptation is a positive travesty, but that seems to be the standard now.

I admit, I'm finding it hard to emotionally believe in gender equality when so much in current culture is themed rabidly around the women good, men bad dynamic.

indeed, I saw a review the other day which praised a book series for having strong female characters and embrasing "women's liberation", and my immediate thought was: "liberation from what?"

Oh yes, in the past certainly women have had an extremely bad time and things definitely needed changing, ditto with some parts of the world, but in your average western country?


ore, indeed one feminist once told me that desiring gender equality was "A very male perspective",


I confess I'm finding this massive amount of women worship very difficult to deal with, especially considering how generally crappy my life is at the moment (or in general), particularly because of women in positions of power, which doesn't exactly help me tolerate the currently lopsided situation.

Luke.
No argument here.

There is a concept bouncing around called "toxic masculinity". I would not mind this so much except that no one seems to be able to define positive masculinity, except for the idea that gender stereotypes or cultural norms are apparently bad. For many of us though, a lack of a good and effective father is the problem, not simply something called toxic masculinity. it was my father's deference to his second wife that made my abuse possible. It was the presumption that I was the abuser that put me in a mental hospital and social services when I was the actual victim.

Personally, I've given up on the idea that society will generally acknowledge that our system can be supportive of evil women.

You bring up fantasy fiction examples. I never read Wheel of Time, but I didn't like the start of the series and stopped watching, more because I felt the writing was weak than anything else. But one thing that I found really appalling was the way that a lot of feminist Game of Thrones fans loved the character of Cersei because she was a take charge woman who did beat downs on male characters. This is kind of like being a fan of Tony Soprano or Michael Corleone because of the same characteristics, while not seeing that their principal characteristic is that they are criminals.

I'm also sick of hearing the platitude that false accusations are rare, full stop. With no examination of the fact that they do happen and are incredibly damaging to the people on the receiving end. I was falsely accused BY MY ABUSER of abusing my half sister. I feel as though, in the midst of trying to get healing from my suffering, that I have to suffer in silence when women or feminism supporting men are around.
 

dark empathy

Registrant
I've heard of feminists praising cersie, since obviously as a woman, and a strong woman in a male dominated society, she must be a victim, indeed that's another idea I've seen in plenty of places as well, that all female villains are really victims.

At the moment, we seem to be in this weird state where literally the only virtue women are supposed to have is being "strong", which overrides anything else, including compassion, decency or even logic.

Even this "strength", is often poorly defined, whether martial prowess, being commanding, or just having lots of people saying that a woman is! strong, (often it's just stated rather than shown). While the corresponding belief is that men being anything but utterly subservient is "toxic masculinity".

Indeed, "toxic masculinity", these days just seems to be a man doing literally anything that goes against the "women are stronger, better and more virtuous then men", narrative, which is why i suspect there is no talk of positive masculinity at all, since "toxic masculinity", is just a term of general criticism, nothing more.

The writing in Wheel of time was generally terrible (quite a contrast to the books), on a basic level: EG in one episode when traversing a dangerous mirk wood like magical forest, the characters are told not to touch the trees, which is not only impossible given how close the trees are, but literally in the next seen we see them sleeping against the trees with no ill effects.

But also, the series was so partisan about weakening all the male characters, often to the point where even the benign female characters felt abusive, whether having a female character randomly escape captivity to stab her captor with a knife, even after we've seen the male character free (though of course he proceeds to stand there and wimper), or EG A character in the books who is a lord and great strategist (like a younger Théoden), who is facing a massive orc army decides that all the men will go to fight the army first off leaving the women (including several female magicians), behind, thus literally getting thousands of men killed, including himself, while only four women (all untrained in magic), stop the entire army on their own!

This as opposed to the books where he literally begs the female magician of the series for help against the orc army, evacuates the entire city since he's so worried about people dying, and goes off to face a larger force simply buying time for his people to escape, and is saved by the main male protagonist for the first time in the series realising his own magic.

The book series has it's issues, albeit I reread the first book recently and was shocked at how good it was, and it's a series that my lady particularly absolutely loves and has reread multiple times, so seeing it turned into a blatant agenda driven mess which belittles the characters has been something she's found particularly upsetting; especially with the complete change in focus from the books message being one of equality, to the series theme being "women better!",

Indeed, one irony in the books is that the series begins in a female dominated world where every male magician goes insane due to the actions of the dark lord, a situation which very much needs to be fixed for the dark lord to be defeated, while the series is so based on the "women good", message it actually states that the tainting of male magic was the men's fault.

I've recently written a review of the first book for people who haven't heard of the series, which I really hope gets posted soon, since the series is a travesty.

Though wheel of time is an appallingly bad example, it's also not the only one, EG in a recent doctor who audio drama I heard just the other day, literally every male character was either evil, or completely useless; and of course that's not speaking of the amount of male icons who've had the Luke Skywalker treatment.

there's even a movement of portraying the past as far more sexist than it actually was, just to make men look evil, for example, in a recent episode of doctor who where the current doctor met the first doctor originally from the 1963 series, the first doctor kept coming out with things that would've never! Been in the sixties, EG asking why the doctor's female companions weren't cleaning his time machine.

The sixties series certainly had it's issues, and female characters did tend to get captured or get into trouble (albeit they often got themselves out of it too), but the doctor would've far more likely to tell the women to stay back out of danger (something which they'd argue about and disregard), than order them to clean the place!

Then again, since the most recent series of doctor who has decided not only is the current encarnation of the doctor female, but there were encarnations before the first doctor and of course the doctor started out as female all along, the hole thing's gone pretty much nuts at this point.

I'll confess, with so much in my life coming up against really unpleasant women in power at the moment, not to mention a major argument with my mother, I'm really struggling with this constant barrage of "women are special, women are strong, men are useless!"

Not that it's created issues with my lady, but I do struggle with generalised anger and powerlessness, though that's another topic.

Suffice it to say, I really hope the current "me womb" era comes to an end soon and people get tired of this rubbish.
 

Celtaf

Registrant
Part of the problem we are facing are large corporations trying to appeal to a part of the population that wants a particular way of approaching social progress. This approach tends to see all who disagree with it as anti-progress or ignorant. So a lot of subjects are simplified. Men oppress women. The reverse, however, is not possible, in this line of thinking, because men have always had more power. The necessary social revolution is desperate. Men only disagree because they fear losing their power. So the logic goes.

This has nothing to do with the reality of my experience, or, I imagine, those of others here. We were just as much abused as any woman or girl in a relationship where power was used with selfishness and cruelty. We, too, had our trust damaged. We, too, struggle with shame, guilt, sadness and fear. We, too, need our sexuality and trust healed so that we can live more effectively.

The people who write the way you describe don't really care about equality. They simply want power. It is no good talking to them about it, because they are entirely self convinced. It is better to avoid talking to them, and to simply focus on the concerns that we have. What we want is for men and boys who were abused by women to be treated equally with other victims, full stop.

The main issue here, I think, is one of public perception. Some institutions have been changing their approach and understanding over the last few decades on abuse. Popular media and popular discourse, however, have not caught up at all.
 

Celtaf

Registrant
Also: how can we talk about the virtues of women without being able to talk about the evils of women? Or are we expected to believe that women are wonderful, perfect creatures? How can we form good relationships with women if we can't tell the difference between decent normal women and awful women we should avoid and have boundaries with?
 

GarryDex

Registrant
Also: how can we talk about the virtues of women without being able to talk about the evils of women? Or are we expected to believe that women are wonderful, perfect creatures? How can we form good relationships with women if we can't tell the difference between decent normal women and awful women we should avoid and have boundaries with?
Just as a side note in my world everybody gets boundaries. There's ones I don't cross my children they don't cross on me. And these have to be hard lines no leeway you've shown the boundary, you state your boundary, you cross the boundary and you are no longer going to be allowed to hurt me cuz I will cut all interaction.

I may know more than some of the many ways that a woman can hurt you. My sister was mentally and physically abusive. My mother was fairly cold and distant, I never remember her saying I love you and having it feel like a meant anything. Then there's my abuser who hurt me in so many ways. Oh and let's not forget the ex-wife that through our 15-year marriage she was unfaithful for about 12 of those years. No arguments here that women don't wear halos, they can be just as devious, cunning,cutthroat manipulative, bitter,angry and let us not forget evil as men are. They haven't been canonized, they have all of of the failings of any human.
 

dark empathy

Registrant
GarryDex is absolutely correct, women are people just as men are, good, bad, kind cruel and all the shades in between.

However, popular media and discourse is wrapped up in believing that one set of people are intrinsically better than another set of people, simply because they are! better, which is pretty much the classic notion of prejudice.

I'm finding as well, that this constant barrage of "women wonderful", is actually something I'm finding triggering. I try to avoid it, but it's literally everywhere, because as you said, the large corporations who run the entertainment industry have been swayed by twitter mobs to disseminate this narrative even to their own financial loss, often directly stifling opinions they disagree with or labelling those who hold those opinions as "sexist/racist/homophobic/misogynists"


Unfortunately, we seem to be in an era where slogans mean more than actual ability or thought, which is pretty depressing.
 

GarryDex

Registrant
GarryDex is absolutely correct, women are people just as men are, good, bad, kind cruel and all the shades in between.

However, popular media and discourse is wrapped up in believing that one set of people are intrinsically better than another set of people, simply because they are! better, which is pretty much the classic notion of prejudice.

I'm finding as well, that this constant barrage of "women wonderful", is actually something I'm finding triggering. I try to avoid it, but it's literally everywhere, because as you said, the large corporations who run the entertainment industry have been swayed by twitter mobs to disseminate this narrative even to their own financial loss, often directly stifling opinions they disagree with or labelling those who hold those opinions as "sexist/racist/homophobic/misogynists"


Unfortunately, we seem to be in an era where slogans mean more than actual ability or thought, which is pretty depressing.
I would challenge you to show me a time where what people say isn't more important than the actual ability or thought. I don't believe there has been such a Time. Humans being social animals has always judged in societal norms. I'm not saying that you are wrong in your views.

I'll even go farther, I explained it to my son when he was what 10 I think? Men are genetically cheap. We produce more gametes than could ever be used in a lifetime. It seems that society may have latched onto that. That doesn't mean that women are better. Perhaps the world IS turned against us. Maybe it's time that we learn to adapt also. Is it fair to us? No by trying to fight against a new push in a different direction unless you have a means to directly push back is a lesson in futility. I might stomp my feet and act like a child when it's raining. That doesn't stop rain.

I've also heard theories that we are producing less children every year. Some are concerned that it will lead to a downfall of civilization. Is it true? I have no idea, maybe it's time we all take a step back and quit being so full of ourselves being the capstone species on planet Earth.

I believe I'm going to use this as a thinking exercise. I'm not here to invalidate your theories, I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong. What I am wondering is what are you going to do about it? Do you honestly think women are going into this form and saying oh my we must change our ways! I highly doubt it.
 

Celtaf

Registrant
GarryDex is absolutely correct, women are people just as men are, good, bad, kind cruel and all the shades in between.

However, popular media and discourse is wrapped up in believing that one set of people are intrinsically better than another set of people, simply because they are! better, which is pretty much the classic notion of prejudice.

I'm finding as well, that this constant barrage of "women wonderful", is actually something I'm finding triggering. I try to avoid it, but it's literally everywhere, because as you said, the large corporations who run the entertainment industry have been swayed by twitter mobs to disseminate this narrative even to their own financial loss, often directly stifling opinions they disagree with or labelling those who hold those opinions as "sexist/racist/homophobic/misogynists"


Unfortunately, we seem to be in an era where slogans mean more than actual ability or thought, which is pretty depressing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not triggering because women are being encouraged to achieve and being given admiration for their achievements and qualities. It is because it is often done by proposing that women are better than men. And furthermore, that women's problems are always more important than those of men, and that any concerns men have that don't fall into the category of wanting to be less traditional, less masculine, or more LGBT, are bad. It automatically means that the men in question must be misogynist, must want to chain women to the bedchamber and the kitchen.

It is very hard, then, to try to come to terms with our own hurts, fears and concerns within the feminist or liberal context because there is no such context. There is no language or popular conversation supporting it. We are struggling to do that on our own, but it is something we are currently forced to do with caution.
 

Celtaf

Registrant
I would challenge you to show me a time where what people say isn't more important than the actual ability or thought. I don't believe there has been such a Time. Humans being social animals has always judged in societal norms. I'm not saying that you are wrong in your views.

I'll even go farther, I explained it to my son when he was what 10 I think? Men are genetically cheap. We produce more gametes than could ever be used in a lifetime. It seems that society may have latched onto that. That doesn't mean that women are better. Perhaps the world IS turned against us. Maybe it's time that we learn to adapt also. Is it fair to us? No by trying to fight against a new push in a different direction unless you have a means to directly push back is a lesson in futility. I might stomp my feet and act like a child when it's raining. That doesn't stop rain.

I've also heard theories that we are producing less children every year. Some are concerned that it will lead to a downfall of civilization. Is it true? I have no idea, maybe it's time we all take a step back and quit being so full of ourselves being the capstone species on planet Earth.

I believe I'm going to use this as a thinking exercise. I'm not here to invalidate your theories, I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong. What I am wondering is what are you going to do about it? Do you honestly think women are going into this form and saying oh my we must change our ways! I highly doubt it.
Sure, slogans have always been popular. You are right, as well, about people being social creatures and needing one another.

You are also right: our species tends to need more females than males, because each human female can only produce one child per year, and those children require the care of at least two people for at least 12 years before they can survive. Whereas one human can spread genetic material to many females.

It's possible the lack of need for men has become clear. We no longer need exploration, conquest or even major defense efforts to protect our societies or expand them in the West; that work has been done. We have exported a lot of major industries. Hannah Rosin wrote a book called The End of Men which I believe addresses this.

Nevertheless, I don't think that is the reason why our group of survivors is rejected as legitimate sufferers whose abusers should be recognized as such. I think it is simply that our society has not figured out how to deal with the complexities of egalitarianism. In general, people see men as dominant, with some exceptions (LGBT+, racial minorities to some extent, etc). Mental health is not addressed as something that is the result of environment or relationships to the degree that it perhaps should be.

In my view, I don't start such discussions because I want to simply be angry at women, or at feminism. It is because I have a desire and a need to have my suffering recognized along with who inflicted it, and know that it is not a weird, isolated incident that no one can make sense of.
 

dark empathy

Registrant
@Celtaf, there are two problems , the moral or ethical issue, and the emotional one.
Since I was old enough (IE about 17 or so), I've always believed in absolute equality. My dad is a male nurse, I was never bought up with a strong "women should be in the kitchen", type of mindset.

I maintained this idea through university, even when, as one angry feminist once told me: "Oh equality is a very male perspective."

The problem more, is that recently the discussion has moved from a discussion of: "how can we promote equality", to a discussion of "how can we destroy the patriarchy!"

the emphasis is not about how to give both women and men opportunities, but how to destroy, belittle, demine and demonise men, as if for a woman being "strong", always equates to being morally, interlectually or in other senses "stronger than a man",
In any discussion of gender differences, women are always depicted as more compassionate, more social, more open to emotion, all of the things which are seen as virtuous by modern society.

As I said, this goes right ontop of all the cultural baggage about women needing to be precious and protected etc, ---- after all who, is it that leaves the sinking boat first?

Perhaps this cultural baggage comes from genetics? Perhaps from other things, but yet, nobody ever remarks on removing this baggage.

So, that is the first intellectual problem, that, just like that feminist said to me, wishes for equality are "sexist"

Which makes no sense.


The second is the triggering problem.

I, like pretty much all men here have seen women at their worst. I've seen women being violent, foul, selfish, thoughtless, destructive, I've been on the recieving end of this.
this is why I find this idea that someone is good because they're a woman, or automatically oppressed because they're a woman (however much they've achieved), extremely triggering.

About what to do about the situation as Garrydex said, I have no idea.

I had wanted to try and express some at least decent opinions, through my own writing, but again, who is allowed to write and publicise is very heavily dependent upon the people in power, who are swept up in the idea that all men are evil and that "male voices", need to be repressed.

As to waht to do about my own situation and the triggering of the media, I have no idea at all, since I'm pretty much stuck in a dead end situation unable to achieve anything, partly due to the very situation I mention, partly due to having a disability and most people treating me like I don't exist.

In my lighter moments I have noticed that movements with fever pitch dogmatic adherence as with the current wave of ultra misandric feminism tend to burn themselves out as with mccarthism in America.
On the other hand, it's not like much else in the world is getting better as regards redistribution of wealth or anything else, and there's little I can do about any of it anyway, so I don't know.

At the moment I just don't try to think about the future, either generally for society or humanity at large, or personally in terms of myself and what I'm going to do with the rest of my own life, since I have no ability to affect either.

With me I guess that the modern ultra feminists have succeeded since I am a man devoid of all power, action and ability.

Luke.
 
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It's worth recognizing the difference between liberal and radical feminism. Liberal feminists tend to be much more on the equality side of things. Radical feminists by definition want to destroy society as it exists now (the "patriarchy") and therefore hold no truck with ideas of equality since they posit it cannot exist under current conditions.

@dark empathy, my friend, you have had many, many run-ins with radical feminists. It certainly doesn't feel nice. But these people also tend to have their heads up their asses, to put it delicately. They really aren't that interested in you, just in knee-jerking their ideas.

I believe there are many more liberal feminists than radical ones. But guess who's always louder.
 

Celtaf

Registrant
I think that when a movement is represented in popular media, among journalists, academics and makers of culture, then it is no longer a fringe or a lunatic few; it's representative of the movement. Liberal feminists barely have any public voice in modern socio-political discourse.

That's not really the main point here though. I could care less about feminism when it comes to trying to figure out my life. I feel like there is this pressure for me to NOT recognize the degree to which abuse, neglect, and abandonment has taken place in my life from women. I feel like if I were a woman expressing the reverse, people would at least empathize with the hurt of it, and the difficulty involved in healing from it. That it is something that is a typical occurrence to speak of. Men treating women and children badly is something which in Western countries we accept as a problem. Women treating men and children badly is depicted as rare and weird. Our cultural gatekeepers even make efforts to downplay it; female villains often get their roles explained away and even get rewritten to justify their behaviour.

I think one of the few movies I saw that dealt with the idea of how women can hurt men is The Shipping News .

Anyway, I really don't think that this will change, so it takes a special kind of strength to accept it and help one another heal, and have the courage to accept those women into our lives who are helpful. Like I've said, my first decent counselor was a woman. My grandmother and great-aunt were both very good to me. I have a good friend who is a woman right now. We have to embrace what is good and healing We have to support one another.
 
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