the balancing game

the balancing game
B

beautifuldisaster

Registrant
I have a question. It really is just about the hardest part for me personally loving someone who has been SA. I am crazy about my husband. It started off with tons of fireworks for us, and before I knew it....as we grew closer it felt like I was Alice falling down the well.
He became an entirely different creature.
Exit desire, enter confusion.
So, 2.5 yrs into a relationship that has been on a rollercoaster we finally are able to enjoy the ride again. We still love each other deeply, even more knowing we stand beside each other knowing EVERYTHING.
The one thing I have yet to manage, let alone master is how to balance my feelings.
I keep thinking things will eventually get back to how they WERE. Yet they dont. We have a really awesome relationship, until you get to that word INTIMACY.
So, although he tries...which for me is very hard think of as genuine (sometimes I feel he does it out of duty and boy, as awful as this sounds it is such a turn off). I have a good friend on here that tells me no matter what, if my hubby is reaching out it is out of love for me. I accept that. But this game is driving me out of my head.
If I dont push, and give him all the room in the world........it usually just stays stagnant. Nothing...and I get frustrated. If I do push, then I feel like he thinks I am dirty...and really it is so embarrasing to feel like you have to push yourself on someone to be loved in what is normally so natural and a key part of a relationship.
My own natural desire is trapped inside, and just bubbles over until I feel like screaming.
What is the right thing?
Is it to not push? Is it to push a little?
Putting the ball in his court gets us no where. Having the ball in my court makes me feel so unattractive and forward, almost like I am begging for him to love me more than just a roomate or something.
All the air is out of my balloon. I just want to be a normal girl, in love with the boy of my dreams.

SIGH.
 
beautifuldisaster,

Congratulations on a really brave post-- the kind I lurked around old threads looking for but didn't always have the courage to write.

My boyfriend and I will have been together for nine years this spring. We are still working on the "right thing." It helps that both of us want it.

A recent conversation helped a lot too-- both of us were very open with each other about the different negative feelings that our difficulties brought to the surface-- I don't think he really understood all of what I associated with "girls who have to ask for it." And I know I didn't understand all of his associations with "guys who don't want it." It was a hard talk but it made things more compassionate on both sides. Also, just getting some of that stuff in the open, about feeling dirty and unattractive, set me free from some of it.

I'm thinking of you guys.

SAR
 
So, I get brave...and have a big open discussion with my hubby (as SAR did, and said helped). I basically said, I am doing nothing wrong. I am just going to be natural....and I will leave the ball in your court. I just let him know this stepping on egg shells is driving me over the edge.
So, after this big long speech he looks at me and says "well, how can I fix something I dont see as broken?". OMG....I am screaming in my head at this point.
So, anyhow.....we ended up talking a long time. I think I was able to make a few points, as he has been responding more naturally. This is not to be demanding, just not so well thought out and made to see so UN-NATURAL!
Just thought I would share. Your point did help SAR, thanks!
I just wonder if there are any survivors brave enough to answer this:

What is the best method to approach intimacy and sex?

Thanks,
xo
 
beautifuldisaster,

OMG, you are talking about MY relationship! I couldn't have articulated/described the situation between my SO & I better if I tried!

Trying not to go bald (from tearing my hair out),
but loving him beyond measure,

Stride
 
P.S. Would LOVE to read some suggestions for your question "What is the best method to approach intimacy and sex?" too, as I have the same question. Unfortunately, I doubt there is any definitive answer and certainly no ready-made solutions. Time and love, time and love, time and love?
 
Stride,
I know how frustrating this is. Of course this would be the hardest part of dealing with a MS. It seems easy for us to see the huge difference between what was an act of violence and control vs. loving your spouse/other half.
Somehow, it seems to be the hardest part to rewire.
I think this hurts me more than any of this because when it boils down to it, it is the most intimate part of loving someone.

It seems to be a themed thread among the partners.

Take care
 
I know exactly how you feel........
after being with my bf of about 10 years he tells me about the SA. Doesn't remember the details yet and is about to see T for that and everything else.
I feel like I've spent our whole relationship feeling dirty and bad about wanting sex and hate to ask for it or take the initiative. Told him this recently which is a good thing to share those feelings.

I too feel like tearing my hair out and don't have any idea how to be natural any more. Lost all my self esteme and until recently all my trust in my own intuition/perceptions.

He kind of lead me to believe throughout our relationship it was me who kept getting tense etc, so I have been in a perpetual state of confusion until I learned about his SA, then everything became clear.......

He went out to act out, but says nothing happened, which I just about believe......but I now feel like I no longer know who he is. And what has been true or not in our relationship. We also have two kids and thank god I'm in T too, as I'm nearly on the verge of a breakdown myself.

About how to deal with/ approach sex, there is a good book which I bought and will post title of it later..........not much use to us right now, but hope it will be in time.

just feel impatient and selfish for wanting some intimacy,

take care
 
I too can completely relate to this thread.
It is so tough to feel undesirable. I feel in a state of "push" at times. It makes me feel needy and gives me low self-esteem. Not much helps with this but I have 3 suggestions that might make it a little easier.

1) there are different types of love-the love you are showing your significant other is just as strong/stronger as the intimacy love-think about how much you love him to be able to give him the space he needs

2) think about how you would feel if you were in his situation.....If it were you how would you expect you s/o to act?

3) concentrate on yourself. You need to beable to make yourself happy with out him having to make you happy

Its tough..that is just what I think about when I am frustrated
 
Perhaps I am the wrong survivor to step in here, but here goes.

I guess I would be about as disastrous as they comes where survivors and intimacy are concerned. It was about 2000 that I started to piece together what happened to me as a boy, and 2002 that I knew for certain I had been abused, and by that I mean sadistically abused for 4 years, until I was 14. My ability to be intimate collapsed almost immediately, and the change was so dramatic that my wife at first thought I was having an affair.

My experience is that it has been essential to try to show my wife in other ways that I still do find her desirable and attractive. I also try to keep her "in the picture" so far as therapy is concerned, and she understands that I really am taking therapy seriously. It does, however, take time, and sometimes I feel very inadequate because of this, even though she assures me that she understands.

The bottom line is that we are both feeling robbed of an important and fulfilling part of our life together. But we will get through this like we have gotten through other challenges in our 25 years together. We both know how the other feels, but I won't deny what a loss it is to be deprived of an ability to express that sexually. It shows what an amazing woman she is that through all this she has never thrown in my face the fact that this is "my fault".

If partners have any comments or thoughts I would love to hear them.

Much love,
Larry
 
This is one of the most important things and I don't often see it discussed here. But in the case of my friend, he confessed to me that he does not enjoy sex. That alone must be difficult to live with especially in a society that flaunts sex and how wonderful it is. For MS, it's not the same. So intimacy makes him uncomfortable and this is the reason we do not have a sexual relationship. taking that element out makes him infinitely more comfortable. I bet if we asked survivors here, many would agree that they do not enjoy sex. So for the significant others, we have to rely on this to make sure we do not feel this personally, that it is not a rejection of us or our love, but just a matter of he doesn't enjoy it because of the unknown fear and pain he associates with such intimacy.
Does anyone disagree?
 
Cupcake,

I think every survivor is different just like every person is different. My b/f definately enjoys sex and our intimate life is 99.9% great. I've actually asked him if he's triggered by sex and if not why not. He couldn't or wouldn't answer so I left it alone for when or if he wants to talk about it. In the meanwhile, I just enjoy the fact that at least that part of our lives is not disrupted.

I worried about it at first, but I've gotten to the place where I'm not stressfully waiting for the other shoe to drop; if it does I'll deal, but I won't stress about it.

ROCK ON.....Trish
 
Trish,

I've gotten to the place where I'm not stressfully waiting for the other shoe to drop; if it does I'll deal, but I won't stress about it.
Click to expand...
What a great attitude. I think a partner or family member can suffer a lot of stress and grief from wondering, "Okay, what's next?" But it takes a lot of confidence to deal with the situation the way you are.

Why am I not surprised? ;)

Much love,
Larry
 
Thanks Larry. I said when I set up my profile that my reason for coming here was to learn and I think I have, at least a little bit. If it wasn't for all of the support and advice I've received here, I would be not be where I am today. My education is ongoing and I suspect it will be so for the remainder of my days and for today, it's all good.

ROCK ON.......Trish

PS: On a side note that has nothing to do with this thread, I'm playing hooky from work today, so today is REALLY good *lol* I'm going to play in the dirt and flowers in my garden and work on some bushes that haven't been tended to for years *ugh* but it'll all be nice and pretty when I'm done. This makes me very happy :D
 
Originally posted by roadrunner:
My experience is that it has been essential to try to show my wife in other ways that I still do find her desirable and attractive.

It shows what an amazing woman she is that through all this she has never thrown in my face the fact that this is "my fault".
Click to expand...
I think that for a lot of partners, the big difficulty is not throwing the fault in the survivor's face-- it is trying to not make it OUR fault.

I know my partner's not the only survivor on the board who knew 1000 different ways to avoid intimacy by picking a stupid fight that would later become all my fault, or to be so afraid/insecure of the topic even coming up, that he would avoid any kind of physical or emotional closeness way before things ever got to the "considering sex" stage of the evening. It's hard not to feel like this is personal.

I know that I really appreciate, and even admire, when he can come to me honestly and say "I love you, but I don't feel good about sex/myself/fill in the blank at the moment. What I would really like from you is ____." I know it takes a lot of courage for him to say that, and it means that he trusts me. I tried to explain this once, and accidentally used the word "vulnerable" and he triggered all over the place and started yelling about why do I want him to be vulnerable :rolleyes: :(

But what really hurts is how long he allowed me to think that something was wrong with me, or that it was my fault, or that my desires were selfish or dirty and that really there was "nothing wrong" with our sex life. As beccy said, I was "led to believe" that I was the problem, and this was great for him because then HE didn't have to deal with the real problem (which was the undisclosed SA). Every time he can make the leap and just be honest about what he needs at the time, it is healing to me.

With some temporary ups and downs mostly caused by him working out some rough stuff in therapy, we have come a long way since this thread was started. I don't know if I can go as far as Trish and say that we are at 99% but we are closing in on it.

SAR
 
SAR,

I can just say that in our case it didn't work out that way. I was feeling more and more detached, worthless, and ashamed, and I don't recall ever thinking that the effects on intimacy were anything other than my fault.

There was a lot of bickering and squabbling over minor things that became gigantic as the both of us invested more emotional reserves into the battle, but I don't think the issue was me finding a way to torpedo the possibility of any romance later in the evening. But perhaps this is an area where I still have a lot to learn.

Much love,
Larry
 
Here is that book I said I'd post title of:

The Survivors guide to sex, by Staci Haines

It has some really useful stuff about working through triggers, which my bf is reading over and over........

However I have now read two conflicting opinions about working through triggers; the first being to try and not avoid them, but face them and work through them, and the second said to try and approach sex in safe a way as possible, maybe avoiding certain things which you know can trigger, until the survivor has realised/worked through that part of the recovery.

This is a difficult one for us, as we're not sure what is triggering him exactly, and he says he wants NOT to avoid certain things in order to face them head on/work through the emotions which accompany them. He just wants to be able to have sex/enjoy it fully, which is obviously what I want too, so I can't help thinking that maybe it would be better if we did avoid certain things (if we can figure out what they are) at least some of the time, in order for him to not be traumatised every time. It's such a catch 22 for him, as for years he's thought that every time these awkward moments happened it meant he was gay and he would lose me/what he wanted. Now since he's rememberd the SA, he knows that not to be the case; he CAN have what he wants, he KNOWS what he wants, but the distress which follows is so disturbing and sad. He has not actually rememberd any details of the SA he suffered in school yet......remembered some of what happened with his sister.

I am trying to re-find who I am again, keep myself well in order to be of some use and be as 'real' as I can be. Just been to see my homeopath, who is no end of support.

My current thoughts about the whole issue of our sex life are that as long as it is important to bf who really seems to want to be intimate in that way, we should try to develope more of a dialogue (outside the bedroom/situation). That's taking advice from the book, 'Ghosts In The Bedroom'. Talk, talk and more talk.......if that's what HE wants. I'm trying to did deep, to be stronger, more resourcful, without 'taking over'.......it's not easy, but then it never was and this is still infinately better than all the confusion we had for all those years. I'd say the more reading you do, the more informed you can be, the more you can understand the survivors perspective, then it becomes more possible to communicate in general. THAT is a kind of intimacy which it could be that both people in a relationship actually have a need for....again, only if my bf wants this too.

Don't know if any of that is any help, but if anyone has any thoughts........

take care everyone
love and positive energy
 
Larry,

I don't think the issue was me finding a way to torpedo the possibility of any romance later in the evening.
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If I had to generalize, I would guess this is a pre-disclosure, or early post-disclosure, thing. Once the actual issue of the SA is on the table it becomes a little easier to connect the dots and a little harder to do the passive blameshifting stuff.

I also don't think that my partner could have *told* you that he was doing this at the time (again we are talking pre-disclosure). Maybe he could have, I don't know. There were a lot of behaviors during that time that all shared a common end result of no chance for intimacy.. the fights, staying up until just after I was asleep to do xyz... some unexplained random physical illness in there too... we are talking about a sad season which is thankfully over.

beccy,

I am glad to see you back. My partner and I are also 10 years together, with two kids, and I might be reading between the lines in your post, but I think some other similarities. I hope you'll start a thread with some more about how it's been for you since his disclosure. This is a good place to draw strength from.

SAR
 
SAR,

I also don't think that my partner could have *told* you that he was doing this at the time (again we are talking pre-disclosure). Maybe he could have, I don't know.
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That occurred to me only after I had clicked on "send"! All I can say is that I have put this one on my "to do" list with my T. I have always seen it differently, but perhaps the answer is "Of course you have always seen it differently!"

Much love,
Larry
 
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