The avengers (is probable minor triggers)

The avengers (is probable minor triggers)

Leosha

Registrant
So my girlfriend and I and two other friends are out at dinner the other night, and then go out to a bar thathas some very nice live music most of the week. So we go there, do some dancing (not me, I do not dance; it is rather like Karyokie; not only would I need to be very drunk, but so would all who have to witness it), but just sitting back talking some, rather enjoying the evening for the most part.

As we were leaving, we see something occuring in the parking lot between three men and a lady. Me, I can not often be accused of being 'politcaly correct' or tactful. And in emergent situations, I can not be often accused of being calm and coolheaded. I just yell out and start running immediately over there. My friend, he tell the girls to go back inside, stay inside and call the police, before he comes over to there with me. (And I must say, it was relief to me that he DID come over to, although I had no right to expect him to; and I later was thinking of it and found amusement, how these three men think all they must do is kick MY butt, and then see a huge and at times intimidating guy show up as well! ha) There was a bit of a situation, some words and even some punches thrown in the short time before the police show up. And in actuality, the situation probably was not so much to begin with, but these guys are drunk and just being idiots. (we were not drunk, but perhaps still the idiots).

My girlfriend was, and still is, a bit peeved about this. I used to negative cope some by going out and seeking fights, because to have someone beating me up made me feel more 'normal'. I have not done that in a year and half. Although last year, my nextdoor neighbors got into a domestic dispute that I got involved in, to protect the girl.

My girlfriend insists that what we should have done is just call the police and perhaps watch from the bar, but not get involved if it didn't seem we needed to. She says that we are quite lucky that there was just a few drunk idiots and not members of some 'knife and gun club'. I credit her with that, in that perhaps I act too hasty at times.

But seriously. Who can see something that looks like possible abuse or assault happening and not want to actively stop it? She accused me that night of 'finding a way of indulging' in my previous self-harm behaviors, without actively doing it. That I get by it on 'technicality'.

It is not that I seek out violence anymore. But with this happening right there and right then, what else should we have done? It is not that it was just me acting, it was my friend also. She contends at least he asked that they call the police first. Well sure. And if these guys did have guns or knives or some other weapon, there would still be two bodies there when the police get there. THey just would have gotten there a few minutes sooner.

So was it right thing, or is it a way for me to inflict pain on myself without doing it TO myself? It was not something I thought on. I just acted, as did my friend. I told her I would like to think that someone would have acted the same if it had been her. She couldn't respond to that. But we are still edgy with each other after this.

Leosha
 
hmmm...I am not sure if you read my recent post...

In 2001, I was stabbed five times in a "random act of violence" that I cannot, one-hundred-percent swear I was blameless in. I spent three days in ICU, two weeks in the hospital and took six weeks to recover.

Suffice it to say that I believe I approached the guy after perceiving some threat from him. He had followed my wife and I in our car (had he, really? or was he just going the same direction?) on two streets, then pulled in behind us when we stopped. My wife and I were fighting. I had been drinking.

The first stab wound missed my heart by very few inches. The second missed my liver by much less than an inch. The next one punctured my lung. It is an act of fate, a miracle, or God's will (depending on your spiritual view) that I did not die. Even though my wife had driven to the hospital so quickly, when I arrived I had no blood pressure.

I told the young therapist I talked to in the hospital that I had questions about my role. What would have happened if I had not approached the man (which I did)? She answered, "What if? He might have harmed your wife, he might have killed you both."

I am not sure what point this story has, but I do know that I have realized how potentially dangerous life is. Although we must try to protect those who are in positions of less power and strength, we must always remember OUR value. You are valuable to many, not least your girlfriend. Don't let her lose you.

And I would like you to stay around, too.

Peace,
James
 
Leshka,

I never saw any type of physical abuse in our home growning up. My father always taught us, "What kind of man is it that can beat up a lady?" We did however have a neighbor that would beat his wife and kids routinely. My father always tried to intervene until the police showed up. I rememebr being horrified that this man would harm my father in the same way he was harming his wife. I'm sure S was thinking the same thing about you.

There is something in me, I cannot explain it, but any time I see anyone being harrassed, male or female, the same fear returns from my childhood. I become aggitated and will always jump in to try to help. It is an instinct for me.
I know some of your childhood. I would expect that this instinct would be more active and prevalent in you. I'm not sure at all if it has anything to do with your past history of looking for a good fight. It has to do with basic justice.

Your last remark to your girlfriend was classic. What could she possibly say? But little bro., do be careful!! Stay safe!
 
Scary stuff Leosha. I'm wasn't there so I can't give you a definitive answer or comment on the rightness or wrongness of your actions. However, please be very descriminating and ultra careful in such situations. Things can go very wrong in a real hurry! I really hate to think of you diving into things like that as I worry about your safety. Peace, Andrew
 
Leosha,

I too react to seeing someone in trouble the same way. I have never had to fight before about it but I have intervened.

From an objective point of view, both you and your girl friend have valid points.

If it was a random event and the first time then your girl friend would not be able to say that it is a pattern. However, that is not the case. Even, as you say, you have not engaged in this type of behaviour for a long time. It can still be seen as continuing your pattern.
Your girlfriend might be seeing this pattern come back and that would probably scare her. Perhaps you could ask her if there are any other signs of your past behaviour that are similar and if they also have reappeared. By examining it together you might see that perhaps yes your old behaviour is reappearing. Or, she might see that it was an isolated event and that you were really acting out of concern for the woman and not reverting to old habits.

I hope what I have said makes sense. If not then completely ignore it.

Jonathan
 
Leosha, I am totally different, although this situation would have triggered me to do something, I normally would hold back.

Yes there are guys with kn*ves and guns, and who is to know whether they are high on drugs, or maybe a big gang awaiting their prey.

Yes, it has happened to me in the past, and I sorta dont want it to happen again.

Look after your own safety first,

ste
 
Leosha - ( ok this is a bit of a rant sorry )

i think it is a catch 22 situation -
especially in today's america -

ppl are crazy these days - have guns are on who knows what kind of drugs -

i think your gf's dismay may come over the possibility of you getting hurt - even killed -god forbid -

and or embroiled in a lawsuit
or put in prison yourself -
taken away from her -

i think she may have seen the need for
caution and leans towards that is just furious at the whole situation - and yet todays realities -

I am proud of you for doing what you did -
BUT ALSO VERY VERY GLAD YOU ARE UNSCATHED -

I would have thought twice - as well -
but probably have gone into a rage -
and beat the shit out of these pond scum as well -

i am glad the cops came - i am glad all is well -

i side with you - in this -
I am just SO SO GRATEFUL THOUGH YOU ARE OK -

YOU DID WHAT YOU FELT WAS RIGHT AND THAT IS GOOD

I just hate people - who do this crap
it sounds like a potential rape situation

and this would have made me into a force that I I am glad they did not see -

it is unfortunate all the way around Leshka -
and there is never a polite or ulitmate safe solution to some shit like this -
sounds like your gf may have just wanted to protect you - i bet she feels conflicted -
but again - wanted you in mind your life together - perhaps -

I am with you - Guys cannot do this -

NO ONE CAN

M
 
My friend, I is pleased to be the help to you. But - as your girlfriend speaks it, and as good people here speak, there will be events not always, that remain good in the end for you. You were most successful in these actions that there is no who - as people speak with the weapon who is on drugs or who does not care, whether they kill whom - that. Those people are present at the world, and more then you think probably. Again, this case comes to an end fortunately for us. But I shall ask with others here, that you support your own safety all over again. The dead man cannot protect anybody still.

VN
 
there's just been a documentary on our UK tv featuring five young men in prison for repeated violence, on for murder.

These young men all grew up in violent families, lived in run down estates, and had no expectations other than trying to gain 'respect' from their peers. But of course their peers were no better than they were, so violence became the norm.
All these men carried knives or guns from their early teens, and used them with no conscience at all, in fact they gloried in the reputations they earned by using them.

Unfortunately these people are all around us, and we just dont know how crazy they are or what they're carrying, or indeed how full of drugs they are.
Which makes any kind of protective action towards ourselves or others a lottery.

And that's the difficult thing for all decent people to accept when faced with some thugs hitting a woman in a car park.

Would I do anything?
I don't know anymore, I used to, but although I think I'd like to still do 'something' I also accept that I'm not as young, fit and hard as I was.

But I'm full of admiration for those people that do, it's what makes society a decent place to be, and if nobody did anything then the thugs would walk all over us.

And I dont think it was anything to do with your old, negative coping stratergies Leosha, it was plain old fashioned decency.

Dave
 
Hi Loesha,

I used to run straight in and try to rescue anyone I saw in trouble. It wasnt thought out at all. I absolutely hate violence, for me the reaction was to do with my childhood and my inability to stop the violence of my parents against us. I didnt think twice about my own safety, I just felt that I had to stop it. I had some successes and sometimes ended up hurt myself. Now when I see something and my impulse is to run straight in I stop myself and try and assess the danger and then make a choice to intervene or not. People used to think I was very brave, it wasnt bravery with me just an impulse to gain a sense of control over my violent childhood.

I would still intervene if I could be of help and didnt end up too much a victim myself. What I hate more than anything is to see people gather around a fight and treat it as entertainment, that really turns my stomach.

I couldnt say in the case you describe what was right, I think its worth stepping back for a second and thinking about whats the right thing to do for all concerned before just reacting to the impulse.

Peter.
 
Leosha,

Glad you were able to walk away from that situation safely

From what I read here I really don't think that you 'ran in looking for a fight' - I think you had that girls safety foremost in your mind

I can understand that your girlfreind was scared you'd get hurt - and I think that she's bringing up stuff from the past in hopes that it'll keep you from doing it again

Bottom line though is that you made a gut (instinctive) choice in the spurr of the moment - one that you felt was right at that moment based upon what you seen happening in front of you

I'm gonna guess that you did'nt see any weapons - and that probably made it a bit easier in your mind to intervene - I would hope that if you did see weapons that you would'nt go running in...

if your girlfreind keeps giving you a rough time about this incident - just ask her what she would of wanted you to do if that girl in that situation would have been her...

What if??? - that's a question that'll only drive you crazy - stop asking yourself that question - I am sure that you did what you felt was right...

I know I was'nt there to see the whole picture of exactly what was happening - but from what I've read - I'd of probably of been there right along side of you had I been there...

TJ jeff
 
Leosha , as you know, I grew up with violence. As a child I took it and also started running away from it. Trouble was I could not hide. As a 14 year old I got really tough and used to take delight in hurting other people. When I was raped and physically beaten I sort of relished it. Then as an 18 year old prostitute I would come close to killing anyone on my territory and yet I would sell myself to sickos who wanted to beat the crap out of someone while getting their rocks off. As a street fighter I can tell you that there is no safe answer to your question. As others have said you just do not know who or what you are facing and what if anything they have as a weapon. I can appreciate your goal to help a lady in distress but you put yourself and VN at risk. I commend you for taking a stand but I caution against a repeat.

Now I do have some advice if you do get into a fight. It should only last for about 1-3 seconds with you the winner. If someone says they are going to kick the shit out of you or pound you into a pulp do something that will totally freak them out and surprise them. Move in and spit in their face. The dont expect it and will react by moving away and their hand move to clean their face . When this happens step in and knee them really hard in the family jewels and that will cause them to double over. You help them with this by grabbing the back of their head and crashing their nose into your knee. Nobody and I mean nobody will fight with a broken nose. If this does not work run like hell.

If they are bigger than you grab a stick or bat and swing for the knees . Nobody can catch you with a broken knee cap. If you swing for the head you can either kill them or they can grab the weapon with their own hands and use it on you.

Remember when dealing with a drunk or sicko use the element of surprise to gain the advantage and end the fight before it starts. And always, and I mean always, be prepared to run like hell. That is not being a coward but certainly prudent.
 
It's all been said.

I'm glad you're safe, I'm glad the girl's safe.
Sorry, you've taken some heat on this one.

I think that a picture phone is good, and good legs for running until the police arrive.

Anything short of an Uzi, is futile these days, but then I would have swept the street and killed them, the girl and you guys, too.

So, I'm totally unreliable in these situations. I've always been known to over reacting in these situations.

David
 
Mikey, Mikey, Mikey!
Whatever happened to talking your way out of situations. The situation Leosha encountered will probably only happen once in a lifetime. These days if you do what you suggested you might very well end up with an assault charge against you and perhaps even a civil suit.
As I've got older, and realized that with increasing age I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag, I found that my ability to stay out of trouble greatly increased.
Everyone stay safe. Peace, Andrew
 
A little story.

My first Kung-Fu teacher gave me this lesson.

The first movement I learnt was putting my hand in my back pocket and slowly pulling out my wallet. Then I would proceed to throw it away and run as fast as I could in the other direction.

This is the best movement of self defence. Everything else I have learnt is for when this manouver does not work.

Jonathan
 
Mike, do I ever feel like doing that?
So many times, when ppl pick on me as a soft touch, I only have to look at them and they go and hide.

I think they somehow sense the danger they are in, cos I can have a real mean look about me, and believe me, I hate doing it.

I do not let anger control me, because I had to use it too many times in the past to protect me, but it is still there if they need it,

ste
 
I think your going to the aid of the lady was very chivalrous and as mentioned possibilby very danagerous. A better attack may have been to make sure that they new you were there while staying back a safe distance, letting them know the police are coming and staying there in case you are needed. That way they now know that they are not so private anymore. The vast majorty of them once they fine out that someone else is there to come to the aid of the lady if needed & that the police are coming will back off and normaly leave quickly with there tails tucked between there legs.

I was forced out on the street at a early age. I learned how to take a big man down in short order not always with out pain to myself. I also created alot of pain on others in order to survive on the street, also with the gang of so called friends I would run with. Normaly if one of the gang was on the prowl there were others very close in case they got in trouble, and believe me they WILL do what ever it takes for the pack to survive. Later the Military taught me how to Kill from a distance and up close and personel.

Getting into any type of confrontation SCARES THE HELL out of me I have come so close to very serious hurting some others it worries me that the RAGE inside of me will take over and I will lose total control. I have hurt enough people in my life including myself I need to stop the pain.

As good as it was that you went to the aid of the Lady please be carefull, it only takes less then a seconed to be knifed or shot.

Craig
 
I just wanted to thank everyone for the insights here. This is a post, a situation, that I think I truly did need to hear more from people then usual, and I am most greatful that you all posted here. The comments here, as well as further talks with my girlfriend and the other friend involved in this, helped me to see that I DID act to quickly, without thinking, and that there were better choices available to me. I did not think I would reverse my position on that 'it was just instinct and reflex' but I have. It is something I had not mentioned last week to my therapist, and this week I shall. Again, thank you for the kind words and comments, and the honesty. I value it greatly.

Leosha
 
Leosha, I always remember getting off a bus, so late at night and walking through a shopping mall.

The place was an open area, and two guys sat in the doorway of a shop.

I sussed them, and was wary, then they start to go for me and my best friend.

We started to run but we got split up with one guy running after my friend, the guy who ran after me, I stopped and turned around and I say to him, what you gonna do punk?

I should have just waded in and said nothing, and pretend to him that I was frightened, but I scared him off, and you never see anyone run so fast.

When I confront him, I check that he did not reach for any weapon, and he did, he pulled out a bl*de,so I said what are you gonna do!

I always have a plan in my mind on how to take somebody out, and I am glad I never had to use it, because I dont want to.

I should have taught him a lesson he will never forget, for others, and not myself, and maybe this is the mindset you used.

Maybe he chooses not to do these things any more, I dunno, but even if they do not frighten me, then who do they also pick on.

I should have taught him a lesson, one he never forget, and it hurts that I never did, I just hope I frighten him to not do it to others.

But always know danger, and it is not always obvious, and any weapon pulled on you, then you have to disarm the goon.

To me, if anyone tries to use a weapon on me for no apparent reason, then they best beware, because I my mind cannot take it in, and beware of the consequences.

ste
 
In reply to Andrew on this theme. There may come a time when a fight is inevitable. When that happens surprise is always the best plan.
 
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