Taking on Shame
Taking on Shame
- Thread starterdaniel_
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Daniel,
I always felt shame because like it or not, it is a sexual crime and "we aren't supposed to talk about our sexual issues."
Also, I felt shame because somehow they make it feel like it's our fault that the whole thing happened. If we hadn't been at a particular place at a particular time, or if we hadn't made some sort of movement that turned them on, then we wouldn't have been abused.
I also felt shame because I felt I was the only one that shit like this happened to, although I knew I wasn't. Who was I going to talk to about it? Who would understand? Certainly not my peers!
Males, in this society, being molested and sexually abused by other males is not something anyone talks about and it directly attacks our masculinity. This over anything else is the reason I felt shame.
And lastly, for me I always felt like I must have wanted it. He told me I did, and I believed the bastard.
Know that you needn't feel shame anymore. I know it, but I still sometimes feel it. Coming here helps a lot. These guys are awesome to chat with.
Good luck.
I always felt shame because like it or not, it is a sexual crime and "we aren't supposed to talk about our sexual issues."
Also, I felt shame because somehow they make it feel like it's our fault that the whole thing happened. If we hadn't been at a particular place at a particular time, or if we hadn't made some sort of movement that turned them on, then we wouldn't have been abused.
I also felt shame because I felt I was the only one that shit like this happened to, although I knew I wasn't. Who was I going to talk to about it? Who would understand? Certainly not my peers!
Males, in this society, being molested and sexually abused by other males is not something anyone talks about and it directly attacks our masculinity. This over anything else is the reason I felt shame.
And lastly, for me I always felt like I must have wanted it. He told me I did, and I believed the bastard.
Know that you needn't feel shame anymore. I know it, but I still sometimes feel it. Coming here helps a lot. These guys are awesome to chat with.
Good luck.
Daniel,
Why is Childhood Sexual Abuse so shame based? What a good question and Rich did a good job of answering it.
I would just add that when we are abused, we are touched...molested...in the most private area of our bodies. And at a time when we are not prepared to know the seriousness of such touching. We are powerless to stop what is happening, we have feelings of such magnitude and we are left knowing that something awfully wrong has just happened to us. If it continues for a long enough period of a time or it is especially traumatic for us, we can even lose the sensation of feeling altogether. And most of us feel as if we have shit our pants in public. We are reduced to feeling like the smallest of children, wounded and bleeding...some of us, literally. Shame is the feeling of the moment. Shame is the feeling of our burden until we get the help that we need to put everything into perspective in order to leave our shame behind in order to realize how truly strong we really are.
Never, shame on us...always, shame on them for making little children suffer.
Peace and courage,
David
Why is Childhood Sexual Abuse so shame based? What a good question and Rich did a good job of answering it.
I would just add that when we are abused, we are touched...molested...in the most private area of our bodies. And at a time when we are not prepared to know the seriousness of such touching. We are powerless to stop what is happening, we have feelings of such magnitude and we are left knowing that something awfully wrong has just happened to us. If it continues for a long enough period of a time or it is especially traumatic for us, we can even lose the sensation of feeling altogether. And most of us feel as if we have shit our pants in public. We are reduced to feeling like the smallest of children, wounded and bleeding...some of us, literally. Shame is the feeling of the moment. Shame is the feeling of our burden until we get the help that we need to put everything into perspective in order to leave our shame behind in order to realize how truly strong we really are.
Never, shame on us...always, shame on them for making little children suffer.
Peace and courage,
David
daniel,
i have had a lot of shame too. fla rich and ivan gave a good prosepective.
i blamed myself for being weak. why was i not strong enough like my friend who he tried to seduce too?
plus, it being the man on a boy. i felt like it was not meant to be, it was a secret, i would be embarassed if others knew. he told me everyone would call me a queer, or i could not get any girls if they knew. he actually made me say i loved him and it, so yes, shame set in.
we were innocent, i know that now. i will be proud one day in my "healing" process to be able to admit i was abused, speak proudly of what i have done about it, and work on protecting others the best way i can.
that is a way away but i am here now, as all of us are.
take care, we were not at fault. they were sick pedophiles. they belong in jail or dead.
take care, guy
i have had a lot of shame too. fla rich and ivan gave a good prosepective.
i blamed myself for being weak. why was i not strong enough like my friend who he tried to seduce too?
plus, it being the man on a boy. i felt like it was not meant to be, it was a secret, i would be embarassed if others knew. he told me everyone would call me a queer, or i could not get any girls if they knew. he actually made me say i loved him and it, so yes, shame set in.
we were innocent, i know that now. i will be proud one day in my "healing" process to be able to admit i was abused, speak proudly of what i have done about it, and work on protecting others the best way i can.
that is a way away but i am here now, as all of us are.
take care, we were not at fault. they were sick pedophiles. they belong in jail or dead.
take care, guy
reality2k4
Registrant
Daniel,
I too lived a life of shame, anger and guilt, the feelings of worthlessness, the fear of having caught an STD off the filthy bastard.
He told me not to tell, and if I did he would come looking for me, I beleived all that shit, and lived in constant fear, day and night, but I did tell, and I feared going to court to testify.
The real reason I did not want to go to court, was the fact that he may have won the case and gone free to come looking for me, I had the shame and guilt of him being free to get other kids, the hollowness of not knowing when he is going to come back and claim me, as his little plaything!!!
I only told once, and kept it a secret from most people for just on 40 years, no wonder people at work trust me with their deepest secrets, but it is so hard to trust them with mine.
We need to put the whole shame thing on the perp, where it rightfully should lie, so they can burn in hell, see if they like it.
ste
I too lived a life of shame, anger and guilt, the feelings of worthlessness, the fear of having caught an STD off the filthy bastard.
He told me not to tell, and if I did he would come looking for me, I beleived all that shit, and lived in constant fear, day and night, but I did tell, and I feared going to court to testify.
The real reason I did not want to go to court, was the fact that he may have won the case and gone free to come looking for me, I had the shame and guilt of him being free to get other kids, the hollowness of not knowing when he is going to come back and claim me, as his little plaything!!!
I only told once, and kept it a secret from most people for just on 40 years, no wonder people at work trust me with their deepest secrets, but it is so hard to trust them with mine.
We need to put the whole shame thing on the perp, where it rightfully should lie, so they can burn in hell, see if they like it.
ste
Daniel - I felt shame because I was told to keep quiet the last time I saw him (as a child - I was just turned 12); a policeman was walking past at the time & it was nearly dark so he didn't see us. It slowly dawned on me that everyone wasn't doing those things despite what I had been told.
As the light dawned in my head, that's when I started my long descent into the blackness that became my heart - I felt shame because I realised it was wrong, everybody did not do it & I had been tricked so fully. I felt like some freak & thought that everyone could tell what had happened just by looking at me....I don't know if it was shame, or the fear of everyone finding out & what they might think of me. That's why sometimes I can still act and feel like a 12 year old.
I can honestly say that now my friends know, they all genuinely tell me that I have nothing to be ashamed of - I pretty much believe that myself now (and that's why I will confront him when the time is right)!
Best wishes ...Rik
As the light dawned in my head, that's when I started my long descent into the blackness that became my heart - I felt shame because I realised it was wrong, everybody did not do it & I had been tricked so fully. I felt like some freak & thought that everyone could tell what had happened just by looking at me....I don't know if it was shame, or the fear of everyone finding out & what they might think of me. That's why sometimes I can still act and feel like a 12 year old.
I can honestly say that now my friends know, they all genuinely tell me that I have nothing to be ashamed of - I pretty much believe that myself now (and that's why I will confront him when the time is right)!
Best wishes ...Rik
reality2k4
Registrant
Rick,
just a thought on something that really bugged me.
That could be the start of a good thread, the thought as a child, that everyone could see you were a freak, and a dirty bastard, for something that really wasn't your fault and out of your control!!!
I remember the damage that one did!!!
ste
just a thought on something that really bugged me.
As a kid, I really did think people could see it written right across my face, the shame?@@??
That could be the start of a good thread, the thought as a child, that everyone could see you were a freak, and a dirty bastard, for something that really wasn't your fault and out of your control!!!
I remember the damage that one did!!!
ste
Hi Daniel
I remember reading once the difference between shame and guilt. Guilt is feeling that I did something wrong, shame is feeling that I AM wrong and that's exactly how the perps who abused me made me feel; they chose me so "I am wrong", my family supported the perps, so "I am wrong".
When a victim of sexual abuse is questioned in courts they are normally asked what they were wearing and all sorts of questions implying that they are wrong. It's not just the perps that dump their shame on us.
I don't understand why when someone is the victim of a crime the shame is directed to the offender except for sexual abuse crime where the shame is directed to the victim.
Heart
I remember reading once the difference between shame and guilt. Guilt is feeling that I did something wrong, shame is feeling that I AM wrong and that's exactly how the perps who abused me made me feel; they chose me so "I am wrong", my family supported the perps, so "I am wrong".
When a victim of sexual abuse is questioned in courts they are normally asked what they were wearing and all sorts of questions implying that they are wrong. It's not just the perps that dump their shame on us.
I don't understand why when someone is the victim of a crime the shame is directed to the offender except for sexual abuse crime where the shame is directed to the victim.
Heart
My last therapy session turned into something that I have to think was like regression therapy though I've never purposely done that and my present therapist does not purposely use that technique.
During it I took on the identity of my disassociative self when I was about 5 or 6 years old in a house where my family lived that was very scary (and still is whenever I think of it.)
I was shamed by those that abused me and I felt guilt about what happened. They are separate emotional states but intertwined too.
I saw myself hiding (literally and figuratively) not only because I was afraid but also because of the shame I felt. It seems that I was acting as if I got small enough I would be less visible and so less the object of shaming and less guilty for all the "bad" things I had done.
What would've happened if I had been conciously aware of that explanation way back then? It's impossible, of course, but it underscores the vulnerability of the child that I was. Shameless and guiltless for certain but, also, easy to shame and easy to stamp with guilt.
Shame and guilt (knowing nothing else) were taken on as a part of my identity. Shame and guilt for many years were a fundamental part of who I was. It is only recently that I have begun to see myself in another way.
Having taken on shame and guilt as a part of me, I was a passive, unresisting victim. As long as I stayed that way, I was victimized over and over again.
During it I took on the identity of my disassociative self when I was about 5 or 6 years old in a house where my family lived that was very scary (and still is whenever I think of it.)
I was shamed by those that abused me and I felt guilt about what happened. They are separate emotional states but intertwined too.
I saw myself hiding (literally and figuratively) not only because I was afraid but also because of the shame I felt. It seems that I was acting as if I got small enough I would be less visible and so less the object of shaming and less guilty for all the "bad" things I had done.
What would've happened if I had been conciously aware of that explanation way back then? It's impossible, of course, but it underscores the vulnerability of the child that I was. Shameless and guiltless for certain but, also, easy to shame and easy to stamp with guilt.
Shame and guilt (knowing nothing else) were taken on as a part of my identity. Shame and guilt for many years were a fundamental part of who I was. It is only recently that I have begun to see myself in another way.
Having taken on shame and guilt as a part of me, I was a passive, unresisting victim. As long as I stayed that way, I was victimized over and over again.
crisispoint
Registrant
Daniel,
My situation, my feelings, mirror yours and everyone else who posted here.
It isn't logical, really, but somehow, when it comes to sex, we are made to think ANY sexual thought or urge is bad, especially when we're kids. The truth is that children are very sexual beings, but act on them by themselves or with peers (kids our own age/maturity level). When we're caught at it by adults, we're usuallhy told it's "bad" and we're "dirty" for acting this way.
We've gotten better at it, I think, but abusers prey on the two-fold level of "you're so grown-up, and this is what grownups do" and "your parents/whatever will think you're bad if you tell them what we're doing." So they put the blame on us.
Not to minimize female abuse as well, but boys and men can be seen to be stimulated as well. When we respond to it, the abuser most of the time says we really WANTED what happened, and this adds to our guilt.
My childhood abuser was a counsellor, and he was VERY good at wrapping my mind around his finger. Even at its most horrific, he made ME feel like I was to blame. Now I know better, but the child I was still feels guilt.
It's a shame we feel this way, Daniel, but it's normal.
I want you to hear this again, though. It's not your fault. Not ever. The more times you hear this, and the more times you SAY this to yourselfm, the sooner you'll start really believing it. Because also it's the truth.
I'm sorry you need this place, Daniel, but I'm glad you're here.
Peace and love,
Scot
My situation, my feelings, mirror yours and everyone else who posted here.
It isn't logical, really, but somehow, when it comes to sex, we are made to think ANY sexual thought or urge is bad, especially when we're kids. The truth is that children are very sexual beings, but act on them by themselves or with peers (kids our own age/maturity level). When we're caught at it by adults, we're usuallhy told it's "bad" and we're "dirty" for acting this way.
We've gotten better at it, I think, but abusers prey on the two-fold level of "you're so grown-up, and this is what grownups do" and "your parents/whatever will think you're bad if you tell them what we're doing." So they put the blame on us.
Not to minimize female abuse as well, but boys and men can be seen to be stimulated as well. When we respond to it, the abuser most of the time says we really WANTED what happened, and this adds to our guilt.
My childhood abuser was a counsellor, and he was VERY good at wrapping my mind around his finger. Even at its most horrific, he made ME feel like I was to blame. Now I know better, but the child I was still feels guilt.
It's a shame we feel this way, Daniel, but it's normal.
I want you to hear this again, though. It's not your fault. Not ever. The more times you hear this, and the more times you SAY this to yourselfm, the sooner you'll start really believing it. Because also it's the truth.
I'm sorry you need this place, Daniel, but I'm glad you're here.
Peace and love,
Scot
Possible triggers!
Speaking on shame and guilt I remember that one day I had to come back to my house after one of the sessions that I had in bushes with my perp.
After everything was finished, I stood up and started to take my clothes. On my horror I found that my pants were torn on right side of my but.
I felt that all people who I might see would immediately know, because of that back-hole in my pants, what I did just few minutes before.
I felt so big shame and guilt mixed with incredible fear.
One older lady, my first neighbor, saw how uncomfortable I was and she said something to me like joke about my pants.
I wanted to disappear.
In despair, I tried to defend myself and I said something very bad to this lady.
She was very upset by this and she later reported to my parents my behavior.
I felt huge shame all that day and God knows how many nights I couldnt sleep because of that episode.
Well, to be honest, I am still uncomfortable with memories on that very bad day.
Ivo
Speaking on shame and guilt I remember that one day I had to come back to my house after one of the sessions that I had in bushes with my perp.
After everything was finished, I stood up and started to take my clothes. On my horror I found that my pants were torn on right side of my but.
I felt that all people who I might see would immediately know, because of that back-hole in my pants, what I did just few minutes before.
I felt so big shame and guilt mixed with incredible fear.
One older lady, my first neighbor, saw how uncomfortable I was and she said something to me like joke about my pants.
I wanted to disappear.
In despair, I tried to defend myself and I said something very bad to this lady.
She was very upset by this and she later reported to my parents my behavior.
I felt huge shame all that day and God knows how many nights I couldnt sleep because of that episode.
Well, to be honest, I am still uncomfortable with memories on that very bad day.
Ivo
I can't disagree with any of the reasons already given for feeling shame, I recognise them all in some way or another.
But Ivo's reply sent a shiver through me when he said he still feels shame about what he said to the old lady.
I remember things that I did to innocent people that they never understood. Why did I vandalise peoples property, steal things from them, behave badly to them?
They didn't abuse me, most times I didn't even know these people.
Perhaps I wanted someone to say "why?".
All I ever heard was words of punishment and putting me down.
Dave
But Ivo's reply sent a shiver through me when he said he still feels shame about what he said to the old lady.
I remember things that I did to innocent people that they never understood. Why did I vandalise peoples property, steal things from them, behave badly to them?
They didn't abuse me, most times I didn't even know these people.
Perhaps I wanted someone to say "why?".
All I ever heard was words of punishment and putting me down.
Dave