Suggestions,please

Suggestions,please
A

ask

New Registrant
Peace,

I am new to this group and in search of support--I hope I am in the right place/space(smile).

Any suggestions you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Well, here's my deal. My husband and I have been together for three years. He is a survivor and has experienced other job related trauma. Our sex life has gone from trying to conceive to zero-its been at ero for five months, although we have gone longer once before. He has finally told me that he has no desire and that this problem has manifested itself in all of his prior relationships. He also says that it isn't fair to me and that he "has problems" or he "doesn't know what's wrong with him." We've tried counseling but the day of he has a meltdown and refuses to go saying he knows it won't help. He is talking about his abuse more. He said he almost told his mother but then decided against it. He says he doesn't believe he can change and wishes he had the courage to divorce me. I have no idea what to do with all of this. I am on overload with talking and it seems that he just gets more depressed as we talk anyway. I can't seem to make him feel better. I asked my dad to talk to him about counseling and although he said he appreciated my dad's care, he said he was really depressed afterward and that the whole thing is extremely difficult b/c he feels like it hits at the heart of his manhood. Any suggestions on how other things that may help him besides counseling or maybe as a prelude to counseling? Please advise. Also, any suggestions on how I can cope?

Seeking
 
Seeking
It must be a terrible thing to be there for him and yet feel so helpless, but take heart in the fact he's talking about his abuse, and the impact it's having on him. He obviously realises that the way he's feeling and acting are in some way caused by his abuse.
But what he can't figure out is the detail, I bet he's struggling to make solid connections between the abuse and his present behaviours.

What can you do? well it's often said here and anyplace survivors talk that we can't be dragged into healing by someone else, no matter how much they love each other or that they have our best intentions at heart. Healing is something we choose to do when we're ready to do it.

But one thing that can make it easier for us to arrive at that decision is to feel safe.
We need to feel that when we disclose our past, and our present, we can do so without being judged or critisized. That's a tall order given the way many of have ended up behaving I know, but we need to feel that our healing will be done on our terms .
If that means our partners or friends have to bite their tongues a bit then "sorry" but that's what we need to see. That doesn't actually mean that partners have to butt out completely, far from it.

Once we start we begin to reclaim some self esteem and confidence, THEN, together we can set boundaries and begin the work as a couple.
The fact is we recover better with support than without it, and that includes both support from a partner and therapist.

So, I would concentrate on creating that safe environment for him, let him know that you trust and believe him, keep letting him know until it sinks in. He's made a start, but I think that he might still be frightened of rejection if he goes any further.

One thing I've often suggested to other partners is to buy a book such as the excellent Mike Lew one "Victims no longer", maybe say you bought it so you could gain a better understanding of the situation. I bet if it was left lying somewhere he could pick it up he would.
It's a wonderful book, and you can get it by going to our "Bookstore" link and buying it through Amazon, that way we get a % as well.

Dave
 
Thank you so much for your feedback. I think I understand what you mean by safe. This is challenging b/c I left for a month--my protest to tell him to get help--and I think it did more harm than good. He was definitely colder to me when I returned even though he cried like a baby when I drop by one day to pick up a few things. I will get the book. I will get the book. What do I do when I am feeling like things may never change? And when I get super frustrated I get super anrgy. And I want children. I feel like my roaring thirties are going down the drain. How long does this take and do we have it? Am I being unkind/unsupportive in thinking about these things?

Well, I guess the first stop is the bookstore.

Grateful,
seeking
 
Seeking,

First of all, welcome to MaleSurvivor.

When I was where your husband is now, I refused to go to counseling unless my wife went with me, so she went. Going to counseling together might not be a bad idea if it would get him to start going. The other thing that my wife did for me was to let me know that she loved me unconditionally. Her love for me was not based on how I performed, or didn't, in bed. She just loved me because she chose to and nothing I did could change that fact, so I might just as well get used to it.

Just some thoughts,

Hang in there

Darrel
 
Hello Ask,

Welcome to this site and Im saddened that you need to be here due to your husbands past and how it also affects you, but Im also happy as I know there is much to be gained for you by getting the support you need, and in time, should it happen, there will be much for your husband to benefit from here himself should he also sign up..

Just on that, and before I get into addressing some of your questions, if you do suggest this site to hubby and he looks around here, he needs to feel safe and have a place that he can let it all out. So do you. To that end, Id suggest that just as you have created a very anonymous username or handle, he can do likewise and the two of you perhaps should not tell each other what your handles or aliass are. This is no meant to breed distrust, in fact its the opposite. Trust for the both of you that you can say whatever you want about yourself or your partner and not have fears about it coming back to haunt you or even worse, creating more tension is very important. Its just my opinion. Some may be aghast at my suggestion and thats fine too. You both do what is best for you.

By the way, Im a fellow male survivor of male childhood sexual abuse.

My guess on the physical intimacy issues you have both come into is that for your hubby, initial relationships and the ensuing sexual activity that follows isnt as much of a problem in the early stages of the relationship, but as that relationship continues and grows deeper it moves into another deeper emotional realm for your husband and thats where his past abuse and issues rise up for him. Just a non-professional guess from me.

He probably has self esteem issues and views himself as damaged beyond repair hence his apologies to you that you dont deserve to be burdened with such a terrible person like him and how he wished he had the resolution to just divorce you.

Certainly for him to say he doesnt know whats wrong with himself is actually saying a lot. Hes implying that all sorts of things are wrong or he feels they are at least. Sad to say, it can seem like ones whole life is a screwed up mess. Childhood sexual abuse messes up so much of our lives for so many years that you just dont know where to start, or you feel like theres no use in even trying. Theres every reason to try, and every possibility to get better, recover and live the live you were meant to.

Am I all cured and perfect? Certainly not, but Im determined to continue on my recovery. My life has been lived from such a shallowness and emptiness that I know I have to change, and I want to. Thats despite a wide circle of supporting, honest friends and a wonderful, caring wife of 16 years. My life has still felt very much like that but its getting better.

Its interesting that he is talking more about his abuse. Maybe he does know its time to try and work through some stuff.

Regarding telling his mother, or disclosing as its referred to, thats a big thing for any survivor to do. I would advise caution in him doing that at the moment. It can have huge impact on the survivor regardless of the response when you do disclose. If its a negative or disbelieving, or blaming type of response the effect is even harder to deal with. Ditto for your father to be trying to talk to him about issues also. I dont know if dad knows and if he doesnt Id advise you dont tell him thats your husbands call. Even if dad does know, he may still say the wrong things and not be the help he intends to be. Its a hard thing to do when trying to console a victim. My wife often says the wrong thing when trying to help me and it takes me some time to work through that. I appreciate the help from her at times, and sometimes I dont. The whole things very complex and unique for each person.

You mention the following:
he feels like it hits at the heart of his manhood
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That is such an important statement and it is TOTALLY TRUE. Thats exactly what happens to a male when sexually abused. By your husband saying that he is actually more in tune with whats happening inside of him than you might think. Even if he doesnt have any answers he is on the right track by acknowledging how it has affected him. The healing and recovery process are just the next step away.

I have been on this site for around 8 months now and had never been to a counsellor before about these issues. Its a frightening and daunting step to ponder let alone take. As you read posts here, just like I did and still do, youll see that many guys do end up seeing a therapist a T. Without exception, for the majority it helps immensely. It is helping me also but I had to be ready and so does your husband.

There are many books available now that deal with male sexual abuse. There is a great listing of books on this site at the top of the screen under the menu item Bookshop. Ive read several books now and they have been a great help. I read a couple before I had my first counselling session. It helped ease me into that next phase of my recovery.

How can you help yourself in coping? If you get some of these books, read them yourself also. Many have specific chapters to help friends and loved ones of victims. Regarding other chapters in these books, they will help you understand the affects and recovery processes that a victim goes through.

Youve also found this site, and the board you have posted on, Family & Friends is the prefect spot for yourself. Youll get feedback and help from other survivors like myself as well as other family and friends of survivors.

Welcome, and I look forward to seeing you around.
 
Hi Ask,

Welcome to a very helpful place. You've gotten some great insight and advice from the guys as to what your husband is going through. Understanding will help you calm yourself a bit. You really don't have a lot of control over his feelings, you only have control over yourself and how you react or don't react to him. That's tough and I must admit before I say anything else, that I'm still learning how to walk that very thin tightrope.

Your husband sounds very much like my b/f in that he'll talk about the abuse, cry about it, and even go so far as to acknowledge that because of it, things are a mess - he's a mess. But in the same breath, he'll say that life goes on, it's not really such a big deal and it's not something I should ever have to worry about. Well if that isn't a messed up brain-fart I don't know what is.

Not 5 minutes ago I wrote to a friend that I wanted him to be able to talk to me, to trust me, but at the same time, I want to run screaming from this hell I've been introduced to because it's just so hard. Well I dont run because its much harder for him and hes fighting to survive. That sounds like the place you're in and I'm afraid I don't know the answer. My only thought, and I'm going to try to do this myself, is to back off a little. I don't mean walk away and I would never turn him away, but I need for him to rely more on his T than on me. I'm afraid that since I'm the one who's there all of the time, it's just easier and makes more sense that I'm the one he turns to. I dont know exactly how to accomplish this feat, but Im going to work on it.

And I want children. I feel like my roaring thirties are going down the drain. How long does this take and do we have it? Am I being unkind/unsupportive in thinking about these things?
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How long does it take? A long, long time. My b/f and I are just starting and I dont have a clue when or if it will ever end.

Are you unkind/unsupportive because you want children and youre worried if youll have them with your husband? NO. Of course you think about it. Wanting children and being aware of your timetable to do so is a perfectly natural thing to do. My b/f and I are in our 40's, I have a child from my 1st marriage who is now in college; he has none. Its a non-issue with us, but the idea of having children was/is terrifying to him. When I tell him I think he would have been a great dad, you would not believe the look of absolute terror and disbelief on his face. Why? Because he believes the erroneous statements out there that say if you were abused you will be an abuser. I know and he knows that he could never, ever hurt a child, but the thought of it scares him to death.

Could your husband have the same irrational fear? There are many reasons that survivors turn away from a loving sexual relationship, and in your case, it could be all of those plus the fact that you cant produce a baby if you dont have sex and if you dont have a baby, then thats one danger that doesnt exist. Im just going by my own experience here, so if Im off the mark, Im sorry.

Many of the guys here are fathers and damn good ones. I dont know if the idea of becoming a father was more terrifying for them because of the abuse or just the run of the mill terror experienced by everyone at the thought of becoming a parent. Id like to know the answer myself.

You are your husbands safe place. Thats obvious and its a beautiful thing. But you also need to find a safe place for yourself. Your friends and family cant talk to him about the abuse or the resulting marital issues because it is very threatening to him, but they can talk to you and help support you. Dont be surprised though if they really dont understand. My family is great and loving and supportive, but I know they dont get it by the silences I sometimes get. Only my sister and brother know even a fraction of what I do and they are with me 100%, but...........
Regardless, I do have them and I have MS which has become a priceless resource for me.

Take care of yourself Ask. Thats really important, not only to you but to your marriage as well. This is probably the most difficult thing you will go through and you need support just as much as your husband does. If he wont go to therapy, maybe it would still benefit you. The unknown is very scary, but if you seek therapy for yourself, perhaps it would be like a little ice breaker for him once he saw how helpful it can be.

ROCK ON..........Trish
 
Thanks guys and Trish (smile). I must confess last night I was feeling very overwhelmed. I was even afraid to check my messages today (so unlike me) for fear--hmm--for fear that I would read a reply that said "you've got a hopeless situation on your hands." I need the truth but I guess I need it in the Emily Dickson way,"tell the truth by tell it slant".

I will talk to spouse about this site. And I think he will dig the anonymous option. I will also pick up VICTIM NO MORE. I know I was suppose to pick it up last night but what can I say, the magazines kept calling my name. Anyway, today or maybe tomorrow, promise.

One of the guys mentioned unconditional love. I don't know what I think about the unconditional love of a spouse. Most of the women I know who proclaim this sentiment are abused women. To me "unconditional" means no matter what. Can I say, I will love my husband no matter what he does, thinks or says? I feel like too many wrongs go unchallenged in this world under the guise of unconditional love. And if he asked me to witness a wrong-inflicted on himself or someone else would I do it? Just mulling things over. . . I haven't totally landed yet. Having said that, this love is teaching me so much about my own capacity for truth, love and committment.

I wonder what other methods besides counseling (aka talking) could be healing? Touch is such a huge part of this abuse it seems to me that there aught to be a reconditioning/unprogramming done on the physical level. I don't know if talking is his dominant way of processes things. So I guess I wonder too how useful it will be. What do you all think?

BTW my dad doesn't know that my love is a survivor, he only knows we have sexual "issues". Thanks for sharing your thoughts about it. I feel bad now and hope I haven't done too much damage. I see that I need to think much more before I do any type of intervention. I definitely need advise on how often I should bring it up. In the beginning I was the one (exclusively) bringing up the issues but more and more he initiates conversations. But its always on my mind and I usually (ok always) say what's on my mind. How helpful is this? Our sense of normacy is quickly eroding. Is this a good thing? Is this a case where its gotta get worse before it gets better?

On the abuse part--there are a lot of things I don't know. I know it occurred over some years but I don't know how old he was when it started or stopped. I know he was abused by his brother (whom he loves) who is a few years older than him and that he was devasted (his words) when he found out that his brother was gay. He said he even stopped speaking to him for awhile but that at some point he got over it and started talking to his brother again. I think (years ago) he tried to have a conversation with his brother about it but it didn't go anywhere. What's strange is that my love does not tell his story in a linear fashion so some things are difficult for me to retrieve in a linear fashion. He tells things in bits and pieces and I have had to learn how to listen for the gaps. I am not sure if this makes any sense. Its just that he will tell some stories over and over and leave the same gaps over and over. ANd if I probe he'll say he doesn't know or simply ignore what I've said as if I never asked a question. I have never experienced anything like this before and so I have a hard time understanding/dealing with it. Its actually quite maddening.

Any thing anyone can share to help me understand this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks folks for your support. I feel welcomed.

Seeking
 
Seeking
What do I do when I am feeling like things may never change?
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"Hope"
because none of us can see into the future.

But be sure to base your hopes on the best reality you can.
My reality in the early stages of healing shortly after disclosure was vague to say the least, so I relied heavily on my wifes sense of reality while I spent many months living on auto-pilot because my brain was fried.

Looking back, and talking with my wife about how she dealt with it at the time, I now realise that our normal day to day life was in her hands, and it was only when I made progress with my problems that I was able to enter into dealing with our life together once again. And since then I have become able to be a part of that relationship in a much more positive way than I have ever been since we were married.

But that was her choice, she made the sacrifice and the effort on her own because she either felt that it was worth it, or she was willing to take a chance on my recovery. Yes, I did ask for her support and help, but I didn't dictate the terms on which it was to be done.
And although she has never said it outright I know her well enough to know that it was a situation that she wouldn't put up with indefinately.
So I had a period of grace if you like when I was excused 'normal' married life - well, the responsibilities that go with it anyway.

I'm not suggesting that you go this route because everyone is different, you'll know what's likely to work. My point is that she made her decision based upon what she hoped the outcome would be. My part in all this was to show committment to the common goal.
If I had just disclosed but then said that I wasn't going to seek help and try to do it on my own then I think her decisions would have been very different.

It's a huge and uncertain trip into the unknown for both people, and one strewn with pain and joy - not always in equal amounts either.
And like any adventure trip with more than one person someone needs to lead.
It's often said that we can't be dragged though healing, and I'll stand by that statement. But there's a difference between being dragged and gently led. I was in a crisis, I could barely cope with my own day to day life and I welcomed the subtle leadership she provided, and I didn't even notice it at the time. But I would have missed it if it wasn't there.

I think it's fair to say that she wanted our marriage to work, our love to continue, in such a way that she developed an attitude of "If I want to save it, then let's do it"

That was her choice, and bless her, she did just that.

Dave
 
I missed the last post somehow.

ANd if I probe he'll say he doesn't know or simply ignore what I've said as if I never asked a question. I have never experienced anything like this before and so I have a hard time understanding/dealing with it. Its actually quite maddening.
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Nothing would have prepared you for this, although it's more common than many people think the tendency is also for people to think "It will never happen to me" - so don't beat yourself up about not knowing what to think or do, you'll learn.

Recently I've trained to become a counsellor and I work with survivors here in the UK.
The basis of good counselling is letting the client talk and disclose at their pace and in their own time, the skill of a counsellor or therapist lies in listening. Then they can push a button or two, gently, and allow the client to open up a bit more. The art is creating the safe place and trust between counsellor and client which allows disclosure and leads to the client thinking deeper into that disclosure.
The details and facts of what happened aren't the important issue, it's the way the client analyzes those details. Often a client will only hint at the detail out loud, but in their mind every detail is there in technicolour. Every detail get's thought about in a new way, and that's where the work is done.

It's very difficult for us as survivors / clients to respond to questions, especially ones that relate to the abusive events. We are ashamed and embarrased about what happened for a start, and no matter who asks we might also wonder what the exact motive for the question(ing) is.
And like I said a bit earlier, we need to process the thoughts that go with our disclosures as they happen, so one question after another just overwhelms the thinking process and short circuits it, we end up with a confused mess of half thought out ideas.

I sound as though I'm on your case a bit here, but I'm not. You're doing whatever you can and for all the right reasons, and you're brave and strong enough to ask questions. I just 'feel' your frustration, which is a natural feeling, and want to help you help him.

Dave
 
Hi ask,

A quick moderator note based on Grunty's suggestion that you and your spouse use the site together and not tell each other what your nicknames are--

If either or both of you choose to join MaleSurvivor in the future, you will have access to a private Survivors/F&F area where the other can't read your posts. The members Male Survivors and Family and Friends forums are set up this way because we want survivors and their families and friends to have a safe, private way to use the site.

My partner did not seek therapy for a long time after he disclosed-- close to a year-- and I wanted him to go very badly, but I didn't push it or do any of the work of finding him a therapist. I believed his therapy would ultimately help him more if it was something he did on his own... and obviously I can't say how it would have turned out otherwise, but he did end up finding a therapist who helped him tremendously, almost from the very beginning.

I know what you mean about not getting a "linear" story. Honestly, I think this is an area where you just have to let it go and be prepared to listen to what he's ready to say at the time. If it's maddening to YOU that there are gaps in the story, imagine what that must feel like to him.

What is it about the lack of intimacy that is troubling you now? Is it that you guys are not having sex, or is it about wanting kids? I ask because it's been my experience, and my observation from reading here, that the sex part is so complicated and swings back and forth during recovery-- it may take a very long time for the two of you to have the intimate life you want... and it is hard enough without bringing the issue of kids into it.

But this is your life too and if you feel strongly about having children, that is an issue that you may want to address with him independent of the other sexual issues. You're not being unkind/unsupportive to seek out the things you want in your own life, and you have a right to know whether or not your husband wants or plans to have children with you.

SAR
 
Hello Ask,

Glad you came back, and I can imagine the doubt and concern you had about what may lie waiting for you. In my early posts I would think to myself, why did I write what I did and what will people think of me and what scornful remarks are going to be left for me. To my joy and surprise I found and still do find, nothing but love, acceptance, understanding and guidance. I hope youre finding that too and from the replies thus far I think you are.

Again, in the order you have posed questions or thoughts, Ill give you mine and I only do this in detail as thats what you have asked for. If at any time you just want to be able to share without getting feedback over every question you pose or point you make, feel free to indicate that and well read what you say and support you anyway.

By the way, if I can summarise even before I start, I thank you for caring about your loved one and wanting to help him, yourself and your marriage.

Youre certainly right in that touch is a MAJOR issue for survivors and most of us were abused by touch. Note that many also are abused where no physical or direct sexual contact is made e.g. covert abuse or visual or verbal exposure to inappropriate behaviour or acts.

The physical touch reprogramming concept would be great if somebody could work out how to do it. So far, all Ive learnt or discovered is that it gets better as the survivor works through issues. The apparent bizarreness is that touch from someone in some situation may seem to have no connection to the abuse yet it can affect us profoundly. Its all about trigger points. Id say, steady as she goes. Let hubby direct the touch factor and be aware that what was ok yesterday may not be ok today; purely based on where hes at daily, which will also change. I know I go forwards and backwards in my recovery, but ultimately I am moving forwards.

You mention about feeling bad about what you have already said or done. Dont give up. You may say the right thing one day but it may still go down badly, depending on how your husband is feeling. If he loves you as you love him (which Im sure you both do as I can tell already) then thats where that unconditional love comes in. You each know that you are each trying your best for each other. Thats the main thing. I dont hold any malice or anger against my wife when she misses the mark. I know shes trying to help me and theres really no permanent harm done. Id rather she continue trying to help me than abandon me. I had enough abandonment through my abuse years!

As far as wanting to know and understand more about what happened to hubby, and your frustrations at having to glean little bits of information, bit by bit, the main reason for that is probably because your husband doesnt know either. Im taking a guess that his abuse was largely hidden from his consciousness for many years. Thats rather normal even if its hard to understand. It happened to me too. How one can have ABSOLUTELY NO MEMORY of such tragic abuse is rather amazing yet true. Bits of memory will surface from time to time, sometimes fragmented and sometimes connected. Regardless of memory detail its still very traumatic to retell that to anyone so Id just say easy does it. Youll need to let him set the pace and keep you ear to the ground.

Take Care.
 
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