struggling to hang on(trigger)...

[zadok1]

I come here with a very heavy heart, and I guess I need to vent more than anything. In the past year, I have grown in leaps and bounds, as I finally dealt with a past marked by molestation and abuse. The problem with it all is that the more I learn about my self, and the person I am, the more I realize I have made an awful mistake.

Defining what is important to me, it has become glaringly clear that sex is very high on my list. It is through sex that I gain validation as a person, feel love and security, and get a great deal of pleasure. I list it as one of the best parts of being alive. No, I will not die if I dont have sex, but it has become very clear that I will also be left feeling empty and unhappy if it isnt a major part of my life.

My wife on the other hand sees sex as a fringe benefit, something that she can take or leave. I really feel she could go totally without it, and not even miss it. She sees my desire for more as my problem, and berates me as having a problem. The thing is as I have learned more about other couples from talking on message boards I realize I am perfectly fine. I have come to realize that I am very healthy, and that three or four times a week is not beyond reason.

I have made this tremendous effort to change; I mean really remake my self into the man I think I ought to be. She works nights, so five days a week, I have the kids in the evening. I do dishes, sweep, laundry, whatever it takes, and I do it because she works too, and it is fair and right. I feel I have given so much of myself, and ask very little. I dont sit around and watch TV while she busts her hump. I am an active father. I take my older son to soccer, and to school events. I take care of our eight-month-old baby while she is at work, feeding, changing, playing with him, and teaching him.

The bottom line is that I feel unfulfilled and unhappy with our sex life, and I realize I chose a woman for my wife who isnt able to meet those needs. I cannot walk away from my kids, cannot have an affair, and feel like I am forever doomed to this flat, routine world that doesnt make me happy. After all the work I have done to completely make myself over, I find that I am facing a hard life of reality. At least when I was addicted and messed up, I was so far removed from reality that I didnt feel it. Now I feel it, and own it, and dont want it.

I would almost rather be left to my fantasies and masturbation than to face another lackluster night. We made love last night. I put on the mask I dont like to wear, pretending to be hungry and needy. I pretended to ravage her, and inside I wanted to roll over and go to sleep. I have come to hate the paint-by-numbers sex life I have, kiss, breasts, oral then intercourse. A few meaningless minutes of spooning to show I care, before falling asleep to dream of better things. Assembly-line sex, to the point of total efficiency, leaves me empty and flat.

It isnt that I expect you all to have the magic answers. I know the drill. I need to talk to her, but I have to no avail. I guess the ball is in my court, and I have chosen to play the game I signed on for instead of walking off for something new. This facing up to the truth stuff is a hard row to hoe.

I try to count my blessings, the kids, her support, and the life we have, but I feel like I have a big hole right in the center of me. I long for something I cant have to the point of being miserable. I feel trapped, and am slowly drifting back into the depression I fought my way out of. I feel helpless to change things, evne though inside I believe I need to. I cant do that to her, and to our kids.

 

[outis]

Jeff,

Can you try couples counseling? I understand that the mismatch in levels of desire is fairly common, and one of the things that couples have to work together to resolve, meeting somewhere in the middle.

I read a lot of relationship books last summer before disclosing the SA to my wife, who helped bring it out in our couples counseling. (Must have been relationship problems, no way that old stuff could have been effecting me 20 some years later, right?) "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix (ISBN 0805068953) has been helpful for my wife and I to learn more about improving our relationship. I still have a lot of work to do just on me, but our relationship wasn't going to get better on its own, either.

I'll shut up now.

Joe

 

[zadok1]

it goes way deeper than simple differences in drive. a lack of frequency i could deal with through masturbation. it is more a fundamental difference on sex. i view it as important, vital for my happiness. i need a partner willing to keep it fresh, adventuresome and exciting. she is much more mechanical than that. sex is unthinkable without a shower, the kids in bed, and having made up our minds that it would happen that night. where is the excitement in that? especially when it is every time.

the problem with counseling is that you have to have a problem to need it right? well, she doesnt have a problem, the problem is all mine. i am the abused one. i was the sex addicted one. i am the one screwed up, not her. now, i am healthy. i can tell you exactly what i want and need, and am comfortable with my own sexuality. now i am healthy enough to look at us and realize that we are not healthy, but seeking help is tainted by my past. now everything is about me, and my problems, not us and our problems. does that make any sense?

 

[outis]

i view it as important, vital for my happiness. i need a partner willing to keep it fresh, adventuresome and exciting. she is much more mechanical than that. sex is unthinkable without a shower, the kids in bed, and having made up our minds that it would happen that night. where is the excitement in that? especially when it is every time.

Jeff,

I think these are some of the kinds of things that a couple can work on, and counseling can help. Both of you have healthy desires. Both of you have legitimate "prerequisites." Having kids in bed, etc., is a perfectly legitimate prerequisite.

For me, the prerequisite was that I wan't violently ill, and that was about it. (Now, I'm always second guessing every thought and impulse, but that's a different story.) My wife has greater need for "the right atmosphere." That might mean some kind of romantic prelude, or not, depending on her mood, etc. It does include having the kids settled.

If there's a problem in how you relate to each other, then you (plural) have a problem. Whether the best response is counseling or not I can't say. But I do think that when my wife and I use the things we've learned (through counseling, books, etc.) to communicate more effectively, we enjoy one another more.

It took a lot of courage to face the SA. It takes courage as well to face problems in a relationship, and to begin working together on those problems. I don't know what's the best way for anyone to do that work, including myself and my wife right now, but I do know that you have the kind of courage that's required.

Time for me to shut up again and get to work. We have a counseling session this morning.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[zadok1]

if she would open up to me about it, i would hold out more hope. i guess most of you dont know me from adam, so i am going to say more than i guess i should...

The woman I fell in love with was very comfortable with sex and her body. I feel she still is, but has become conflicted because of our revived faith. The woman I married once shared her deepest fantasies with me, and I shared mine with her. As I went through recovery, we grew closer and closer. I shared things I had done in my past, things I would like to try, and pointed out that I would respect her boundaries. By the time this conversation took place, we had been very adventuresome sexually. Toys, role-playing, anal and oral were regular things with us. We knew we were clean, safe and relaxed, and had very few hang-ups. Naturally, I have the male fantasy of two women, wouldnt mind swinging and things like that. I respect the fact she feels those things are wrong, and I can live perfectly fine with that, but the thing that is killing me is just how far backwards we have gone.

About two years ago, there was a major shift in her. I felt it, and have asked her about it. Suddenly, I feel her holding back, and not really telling me all there is. Months earlier, she shared a fantasy with me, saying she often thought of being with another woman. She said she felt acting on it would be entirely wrong, and that it was just a fantasy. Thats cool, I would never ask her to cross such a boundary. I did offer up a game. I told her if she wanted I could role-play a woman for her. A week or so later, we did that very thing. I enjoyed it, partly because I liked it, and partly because I felt it was something that really pleased her. We repeated the game a few more times.

Somewhere, I feel it hit a nerve or something. I dont know what happened, but overnight she completely shut down on me. I tried to ensure her I wasnt gay, that our games were perfectly healthy, and that she was a fantastic wife. I tried everything, but from that moment on there was a dynamic change in our relationship. All the playful games went out the window. Oral had been a regular thing, both on me and her, but now is a rare treat for me. Forget the submitting, rimming and penetration she once did on me. I really feel that someone said something that made her feel sinful or ashamed of what we were doing. Perhaps, she confided in a more prudish friend and was slapped down, or some preacher on TV said something. I am sure it was something like that, but when I ask, she says she isnt any different. She is, and it is killing us. I dont know what to do.

You will never find a more loving, attentive man than me. I have learned how to be open and share. I dont hesitate with the non-sexual forms of love. She gets the back rubs, the time to do her scrapbooking and time to her self. I have done all of this for her. I went through a failed marriage and from the start, I have always done the right things. She will even brag about me to her friends. I hear it all the time. I just want my wife back. If she wont talk about it, what hope is there for us? I am totally at a loss.

 

[michaelb]

Jeff.....

I think the best thing to do would be for you to make a copy of this post and share what you have written with her...what you have said has addressed your thoughts, concerns and feelings in very loving and caring ways....i understand your turmoil, you can play the denial game and the self-martyr game forever (if you need copies of the rules, they are embedded in my brain), but the bottom line is you have to make yourself happy.....

i think openly sharing your concerns with her is step 1, maybe marriage counseling could be step 2......you will be unable to deny your true feelings forever....

do you think her sexual interest has waned because of motherhood or because of religion????? i think you need to understand the cause of her change, if you might be able to change her back....

of course, as you know, i am no expert michael

 

[zadok1]

the change goes back to before she was pregnant, about two years ago. it could be religous conviction because as you know both of us have moved more in that direction over the years. there is another possibility, one i feel is even more likely. i wonder if she didnt confide in one of her friends, about the games we were playing. i mean to some they might be taboo and kinky. perhaps they made her feel ashamed or something. i have tried to talk to her about it, but she shuts down on me. whatever is going on must really be bad, because i have told you how outspoken she is. do you think she could have acted on her fantasy or something? no, that isn't my wife. i just dont know.

you are right about taking care of myself. inside i know where we're headed, and it scares the hell out of me. i am trying to do righ tby the woman i love, and by our children, but i am convinced she is currently unable to meet my needs on a sexual level. even when she tries, i feel how conflicted she is. she can't be someone she isnt, but neither can i. i think i know my answer inside, but i can bear to even think it.