Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!

Note: I have just been advised by "ste" that this entire thread may trigger some of the young people here and for that reason I am adding the following:

*********TRIGGER WARNING**************************

Oh, my God!

Maybe I've been really dumb. But it occurred to me just a short while ago that there are young people here who have it within their power to keep other young people from getting hurt.

It's too late for some of us. Either the statute of limitations has expired or our perps have expired--or both.

But what of Nyjah? Kev? And some of the other youngsters here? What is happening with these prosecutions?

Like have the police brought charges? Are doctors doing mandatory reporting? What is happening with these cases?

Sorry, I don't mean to intrude into very painful areas. But Rik is going after his perp in the U.K. And I am confident he will win too.

But how about right here in the U.S.?

Is Nyjah's sister looking after him by taking all of his perps to court? And what of Kev? Has that case gone forward?

I don't mean to sound like I'm on a soap box. But how many other kids are being hurt right now? Where are all these perps? It might help us all to know the status of the prosecutions, that is if Nyjah, Kev, and others don't mind sharing.

Thanks, guys!

Jasper

 

Hi!

It's Jasper again. I just feel so dumb that I never thought of this particular issue before. Has anyone else? Has it ever been discussed?

But if I understand what Nyjah has been saying, he has had 5 different perps. That means there could be 5 perps out there right this very moment hurting God knows how many kids! And what of Kev's perp? Is he behind bars? Is the case going forward?

MaleSurvivor is an amazing organization that is already doing the impossible. So maybe this is asking too much. But in addition to a "find a therapist" directory, how about a "find an attorney" or "find a prosecutor" directory?

Surely there must be some attorneys out there who wouldn't mind taking an occasional pro bono case? Can't they be hooked up with these kids to see that everything is being done to stop those perps and get them off the street now?

For some of us older guys, it's like we went through this house fire a long time ago. We're having flashbacks to the fire, trying to cope with the smoke damage, etc.

But there are young people in the burning house right now! Should they be encouraged to write poetry? Or should they be encouraged to take their perp to court? In other words, can't we get some of those kids out of the house right now? And can't some of the kids who visit this site help? And shouldn't we be connecting them with the proper authorities who can help?

Or is this just a pipe dream?

Sorry...this all just hit me this morning like a ton of bricks. I mean, I feel bad that Nyjah is cutting himself and going through so much pain. But what of those other boys last night or this morning who are being hurt? Do you call the "fire brigade"? Or the equivalent to that in the Department of Children and Family Services?

Just wondering. What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Jasper

 

[reality2k4]

All the young guys have issued prosecution against their perps.

One guy did it just yesterday, and it must have been a terrifying experience.

I hope they are all believed, there is a lot of tragedy in each of these cases, because a lot of other hurt gets lashed onto the perps own family.

They have to be purged though, in case they have access to do it again,

ste

 

[roadrunner]

Jasper,

That is something I think about all the time. It just grieves me beyond words to think how many other kids were hurt because I did not or could not speak up in 1963. My abuser lived on for another 31 years, and I know for certain of one other boy in my Scout troop who was abused by him - we have spoken on the phone about this and he was as cruelly brutalized as I was. So how many others? 2, 5, 10, 20, 100....?

I would not want to lay any kind of guilt trip on the young guys here. We do have to remember that the attitude of the older adults toward this includes a ton of emotional baggage: we would just love to see the teens do what we could not do. But that said, yes, I wonder if they have anything they can tell us.

Brandon, Charlie, Desvelar, GuitarGuy, Kevin, Nyjah, Puppy (and the others who are around): what are your thoughts on this? Don't feel you have to justify or defend anything, but it would be good to hear from you on this if you feel you can talk about it.

I think I know one thing that is going to come out of any discussion. The structure we have now for dealing with this kind of thing isn't "teen-friendly". And I bet any of the boys or young men with us here is looking at the option of prosecution with very sceptical eyes after the fiasco of the Michael Jackson case.

So again: Brandon, Charlie, Desvelar, GuitarGuy, Kevin, Nyjah, Puppy (and the others): Do you think it is a good idea to try to prosecute your abusers, or does it look like a bad deal from the very beginning? Tell us what you think.

Larry

 

Thanks ste for sharing that. I just got a PM from "Sinking" (John) that I want to share with you guys also. It presents a very different and important viewpoint.

*****

Hi Jasper - I hope you are well. I just read your post about going after our perps. Let me share with you my experience.

I was 41 years old when I found one of my abusers. He's the VP at a bank in Boston now, probably pulling in a very nice paycheck, living with his lover in MA.

After I found him, and I'd been looking for years, I called him at his office. At first he didn't remember my name, adding insult to injury. So I bluntly reminded him by asking if he recalled molesting me as a boy some 30 years ago. Then he remembered. He was shocked, to say the least, to hear from me. He asked what I wanted and I told him I wanted an explanation. I wanted to know why he did what he did. I wanted him to be accountable for ruining my life. Most of all, I wanted reassurance that he was no longer hurting children.

He explained that now was not a good time to talk, so we arranged a time and date for me to call him again, at his office number. When I did, I got voicemail, so I left a message. When he didn't call back, I called him again. When he still didn't call I left a message for him at his home number. This went on for 6 weeks, nine calls in all. Then I gave up and was considering taking legal action sine I was not getting what I wanted on my own.

As you can imagine, this was a high-stress time for me. As a result, a dormant cyst on my back started to act up. It grew to, no kidding, ten times its size in a matter of days. I had to repeatedly go to the hospital to have it drained. It was incredibly painful and a metaphor for the poison being drained from my mind, body and soul.

Upon my return from one of these draining appointments I found an envelope on my front door. I had been served papers and summoned to court for harassing my abuser, for causing him and his partner mental anguish and psychological and physical distress. He was suing me!!! And all I did was make a few phone calls. I did not threaten to harm him or his partner although I did threaten to expose him. I had one week before the court date. I was beside myself.

I called no fewer than 2 dozen attorneys before one would take my case. I spent thousands of dollars because I was being called a criminal by a man who abused me for two years starting when I was 11 years old. I was at the breaking point. I was, literally, having a nervous breakdown and it was all I could do just to get the case dropped. We finally agreed to let it all go if I agreed to stay away from him and not contact him.

I saw him that day in court for the first time in 30 years. As I sat talking to the attorney I had not met before, I was shaking and crying but I refused to leave the room or even turn away. It was terrifying.

There is more to the story, but I think that might be enough to give you an indication as to why some people are not pursuing their abusers. One has to be of stable mind to take on such a daunting task. One has to have all his ducks in a row, have excellent legal counsel, know what his rights are, if they haven't been washed away because of ridiculous statutes of limitations. I am in a much better place now, psychologically. I am stronger and have my head back, so to speak. I am not afraid of him anymore. But I know that I am still not ready to take him on. I will be one day and I'll know when that is. I'm keeping track of his whereabouts for when that day comes. But I am still not ready now.

I know you mean well, but your message will put a lot of pressure on those who are not ready to deal with something like this. And it will lay guilt on those boys/men because now they will be thinking that it is their fault others might be being hurt and they could do something about it when, in reality, they cannot right now.

I have not been posting much on the message board but I have been checking back. If you like, you can copy and paste this as a reply to your message so that others can see a wildly different point of view. As always, with respect - John

--------------------
It's getting better all the time, better, better, better.

- The Beatles

*****

John is right. No one is ever to blame because they didn't feel like they could come forward. As my friend Larry (Roadrunner) and I have discussed, who even knows if way back when we would have been believed? His perp was a respected elder in his church and an important member of the community? The man who molested me when I was a teenager was also an important figure in the community. No one wanted to think such things--let alone talk about them back then. And now, as John has said, it can backfire on the survivor to try to take action.

But what if way back when we had the power of an organization like MaleSurvivor behind us? What if we had members willing to call and write letters and demand that something be done to get those perps off the street? What if attorney/survivors could be recruited to take up the cause? What if kids that are being molested this very morning could be rescued?

That was just my thought, John. But I am in awe of you, what you attempted to do, what you continue to do to help survivors like me, and most of all I am awed by your wisdom. Thank you for pointing out all the pain and potential legal headaches that await the survivor who dares to come forward. And most of all, if you do or do not come forward, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT! Right, John?

All the best to you!

Jasper

 

Larry:

You said two words that hit me like a slap of cold water:

Michael Jackson

Damn, damn, damn. I feel like throwing up now.

Thanks, bro! Just the same, it needed to be said.

Jasper

 

[dwf]

Jasper,

I feel like I understand where you are coming from.

But I think that demanding that others take specific actions that might or might not be helpful to their specific situations might not be helpful.

I would encourage you and others to consider perhaps if we are encouraging todays young people to pursue specific courses of action as a way of making up for our own perceived lack of initiative when we were younger.

If you can see the possiblity of that happening, then I'm sure you will agree that it is unfair to ask this generation to take on and carry our baggage. They have their own to deal with and do need encouragement with that, whatever that may be.

I feel certain, from what I know of you, that your heart is in the right place. But placing such a load on the shoulders of anyone, young or old, is not a good way to deal with our own unfulfilled desires.

I certainly hope this doesn't sound like an admonishment or that I am chastising anyone. These feelings of wanting to help others are wonderful and represents the best of human nature.

Still none of us like to be told what we should be doing, particularly when we are doing the very best we can.

It may be that prosecution is not the 'next right thing' for some people to do. Maybe learning to love themselves and forgive themselves is what they should be doing. Maybe that's what all of us need to be doing.

There are many people in this world concerned with prosecuting sexual predators. Many professionals work full time at doing this.

There is only one of each of us to work on the healing inside of ourselves that must be done. No one else can do this work. We are the only ones, who, with help, can begin the difficult work of recovering from the effects of sexual abuse.

As I progress in my recovery, and sometimes it seems like pitiful progress, I then have something of real value to offer to other survivors--hope.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for prosecuting perpetrators of sexual abuse. But I don't imagine that it is the primary goal of the survivor of sexual abuse. It is, in my opinion, once again, the obsession with the predator taking precedence over the real, desperate need that each survivor has to learn to love, accept and heal himself.

Yes, encourage those who are at the 'prosecuting' stage of their recovery to continue with that course of action if that is what feels right for them.

But let's not give anyone the impression that our recovery and our healing is in ANY way dependent upon what may or may not happen to the perpetrator.

That way lies despair and madness, because we are once again giving power to the sexual abuser.

There is another dimension to this discussion that has to do with the dynamics of the relationship between older men and younger survivors; but I'll save that for later.

Jasper, your heart seems to be as big as Texas, and your enthusiasm is contagious.

Thanks for being such an active and loving member of the Male Survivor DB.

Regards,

 

But let's not give anyone the impression that our recovery and our healing is in ANY way dependent upon what may or may not happen to the perpetrator.

Danny:

Do they have an "Instant Graemlin" for someone standing up and cheering?

As always you hit the proverbial nail on the head.

And thank you for your kind words. Yes, I do like to think I have a heart as big as Texas. Unfortunately, I also have a knack for stepping in some good old Texas cowpie.

Excuse me now...I got to wipe something off my feet!

Thanks, again, Danny! Geez...you're so smart. No wonder you're the mod!!!

How about a big hug? (If that's okay.)

Love ya,

Jasper

 

[roadrunner]

Wow! Look what has happened to this thread in less than an hour.

Jasper, there was nothing wrong with your thoughts on this issue, and I do hope some of the younger guys will join in.

I had some thoughts on your comments about poetry Jasper, but I will put that in a different thread.

Can I stress, just generally speaking and not aiming at anyone in particular, that this cannot turn into an argument? If we ask the boys to speak up, they have to know in advance that their feelings will not be invalidated or their sentiments raked over and queried. I think we all remember what happened a month ago when the boys were asked what they thought on an important issue, and then got abused, humiliated and shot down one by one.

What we need to do is listen and understand, not tell them to do what we, for whatever good reasons, didn't do however many years ago. This really does need to be about hugs all around (idea from Jasper of course) .

All the best,
Larry

 

So again: Brandon, Charlie, Desvelar, GuitarGuy, Kevin, Nyjah, Puppy (and the others): Do you think it is a good idea to try to prosecute your abusers, or does it look like a bad deal from the very beginning? Tell us what you think.

And as Larry wisely suggested, we just want to hear what you think on this topic. No judgements. No arguments. No right or wrong. Just listening and understanding, okay?

Also, just a suggestion to the MODs and BODs of MaleSurvivor, is it possible to have a forum where legal matters, prosecutions, questions about how the system works, might be answered by a few volunteer attorneys? Or prosecutors? Just a suggestion.

Okay, the invitation is out there now to the young people if they care to respond (or not).

Thanks in advance!

Jasper

P.S. And yes, Larry, hugs all around (if that's okay).

 

[desvelar]

Hey all it Desvelar
I personally do not want to prosecute I am to scared and my parents would find out and I dont know
I dont want to think about it much I mean I would love to see my perp go to jail but I could handle it. It would probably kill whats left on the inside of me which is pretty much empty. Also that legal system area thing would help. I will add more4 later I just cant write anymore for now its to hard becuase to many memories are coming up.

 

[Kirk Wayne]

***Could prove TRIGGERING*******************

Hi

It effects different people in lots of different ways. The thought once terrified me, but it came to the point of discloser because it was either that, go insane or try to commit su*c*de for the fourth time. I am four and a half years from my disclosing, two of my perps were convicted and one served only half his sentance the other got a 250 fine. A third abuser is now in custody awaiting committal for trial (which will happen next week). Only you and you alone can choose but make sure you are aware of ALL the possible pitfalls, I never got to give evidence in the two trials although I was called (and was the whistle blower to these perps activities) and that was a big disappointment as I wanted to tell the world what these two (three/four) perps had done to me, but that is typical of our criminal justice system here in the UK. I'm still waiting to tell the world.

I disclosed and prosecuted as I had knowhere else to run to as I had run out of places to hide. I had to face it full on and four and a bit years down the line I'm sure glad I did.

I have done some rough calculations for one of my perps when he was ab*sing me he would have at least three boys visit him (or he would pick them up) daily and he was definately active before meeting me, that was in 1970 taking out time spent in prison he would have commited thousands of offences. These people need to be stopped. Unfortunately the authorities will not allow us to throw away the keys.

By my calculations three boys a day over a period of thiry four years is a total of 37,230. Taking account of those that didnt play ball say 50% thats 18,615 survivors

Kirk.
"Instigate change, as it appears it wont come naturally in our cause. Sometimes it needs a little forcing".

 

[puppy]

reading this post made me feel sick. no offense intended to anyone, but i have to share my feelings on this. i think its totally noble to want every young person to go after his abuser etc etc etc.

on the other hand, im a young person. and yes i have the power to make sure my abuser gets charged and everything. HOWEVER. its much easier to SAY it after the fact when you no longer have th power to do it, than it is to DO IT. i have lost SO many nights of sleep and convinced myself i am just as bad as him, because i dont have the balls to do something about it. yes other kids are being abused. hes doing it to other kids. he has to be. people like that dont just stop.

WHY IS IT MY RESPONSIBILITY.

i know it has to be someones. but some of us just are not strong enough to do that. a whole life of being treated like an animal and a sex object has brought me here, to this website, the only place i really truly feel like im understood. and even here there are some things i just cant talk about. because its too damn hard and it hurts too much. even with my therapist there are subjects i just cant bring up and memories i just cant talk about. its taking every tiny bit of strength i have in me to just keep going forward and try to put myself back together. and there is NO WAY IN HELL i could pick up a phone and call a lawyer or the police and tell a complete stranger the most traumatic, disgusting, humiliating, painful things that i keep buried inside me. and then what. go to court? and tell MORE people? and have to face him? sorry. call me weak. call me a total insensitive jerk for not being selfless enough to protect other kids. yes i care. more than i could ever explain. i hate myself every second because im so damn weak. and i hate myself for all the kids who are being hurt and it might as well be my fault.

but some of us just arent that strong. and im one of them. i could do it. but that would leave me with only one option and its not a good one.

i understand completely why people think us young guys should take acton and save the world. but im not a hero. im just a guy trying to survive.

 

[EGL]

As I've told my therapist several times, I have no inclination to rehabilitate my perp brother. He may be abusing others still, and it wouldn't surprise me if he is. But I don't see it as my obligation to further the trauma upon myself by trying to save the rest of the world from him. As Puppy said above, maybe I just don't have the balls for it, and that could very well be true. Self preservation and recovery is what I'm most interested in at this point, not falling into those same old patterns of the past where I feel like I have to please everyone and sacrifice myself for them in the process. I'm not going to do it, and I think no one else should be expected to have to extend their trauma further than it already has been done to them unless they feel especially led to do so.

And if someone told me that I should feel obligated to warn others about his character and that I had a duty to do it, I'd tell them to experience what I have, learn what living in my head is like, and then don't try to lay those guilt trips on me because I haven't the desire to prolong that aspect of this horrible thing.

 

I wrote a letter to my parents telling them what hapend and for them not to ever mention it or I willl leave(I have places to go).

Did that help, Desvelar? Just curious. Not trying to be nosy. But I imagine they would at least want to make sure no one uses that babysitter again. Don't you think?

To Puppy, I can understand your situation.

And EGL, I understand too.

Actually there is no right or wrong answer. We all need to do what we need to do for our recovery, right?

But the reason this all came up for me is what the doctor asked me when I saw her the other day and talked about the CSA.

She wanted to know if my brother was still alive.

I said no.

Then she wanted to know if my brother had a family.

Again, I said no.

I couldn't figure out why she asked those two questions. If my brother was alive she would have no choice but to report the abuse to the authorities.

Likewise, if my brother had children, she would have to report to the authorities that they may have been abused.

So that way, it doesn't matter. But I think that is what would give me the courage to report someone. If I thought someone else was being abused.

At least now I think I could...given all I know. Do you see what I mean?

Jasper

 

Only you and you alone can choose but make sure you are aware of ALL the possible pitfalls,

Kirk, I agree with you completely!

It's a very individual decision.

Thanks,

Jasper

 

[reality2k4]

Wow, did I see this coming, that is why I asked Jasper to put the trigger warning up.

It is a very contentious issue, and I could see why it would be.

I can still remember the hurt as a kid, wanting him caught, not wanting him caught, and the thing is, I reported it, and he never got caught as far as I remember.

The feelings of guilt, and what if he is caught, and what will happen, and will they believe him, because he is a grown up etc etc etc.

You fell guilty whichever way it goes, caught or not, it is your guilt and they just seem to walk away and ruin your life and not theirs.

If I had to go to court and he was found not guilty, then my mind would have been destroyed, and I dont suppose I would be here, but in some mental institution.

It is not your fault, it is not your guilt, it is not your shame and humiliation, it is theirs, but we cannot even give it to them, even if they are convicted, but we do have the peace of mind, that they are no longer free to do it to others.

ste

 

It is not your fault, it is not your guilt, it is not your shame and humiliation, it is theirs

Hello ste!

I agree completely with you on the above. Actually, it's important to remind ourselves that we all have to do what we can for ourselves, for our healing. And only we know what that is.

But a few weeks back I had a dilemma. There was no doubt in my mind that my brother physically and sexually abused me for years.

But later, when I was 17, my first "consensual" relationship was with a married man. Or so I thought it was consensual. When I came to this site and realized what sexual abuse was all about, I then knew he had basically tricked me into bed, plying me with alcohol, and getting me to do something I wasn't ready for. To make matters worse, I was too old for his tastes at 17!!! He liked them young and straight, more like 14!

So after all these decades I realized the guy was a sicko. And he had probably been molesting hundreds and hundreds of young teenage males.

It was terribly upsetting but I looked him up when I realized that, knowing that I would probably have to report him. Fortunately for me, he was dead. But do I wish I had been able to come forward back in the early 70's? YOU BET.

Perhaps I could have saved a lot of kids. Maybe. Maybe not. The chances are back then I wouldn't have been believed.

So I don't have the right answer for anyone. I just mainly want to know if any of the young people considered prosecuting their perps. Like Nyjah. Was his sister for prosecuting or not? And some of the others? How did they feel? How did their families feel?

And is there anything that maybe MS can do to help them if they do decide to prosecute?

Does that make sense?

Jasper

P.S. But I'm not to blame for the boys who were abused after me. No survivor ever is. The perp, and the perp alone, is the one who is responsible. No shame! No blame goes to us the survivors!

 

[Soccer Kid]

Jasper,

I'm no longer young enough to pursue any of my perpetrators.

I would like to comment a bit on this topic however and offer my 2 cents worth.

I have 7 different perps in my life...6 were sexual and physical one was just physical. My mother knows about 2 of them, possibly 3. She never took it to trial. I wish she did.

I think that puppy nailed it on the head in his post. It's hard to want to face the person who did it to you. But one thing I can promise is that in the future, when you have healed a bit more, you will wish you had taken them to court.

Puppy is older than the others here from what I gather, he's still younger than me, but not by much. Kevin, Charlie, GuitarGuy et al, are younger. There is a great deal of weight being placed on their parents to make the decision. I often wonder if any of these people live in states like California where victims are compelled to testify in sexual abuse alligations?

Puppy asked a very important question. Why is it his responsibility? Puppy...it's not. But there is a chain going on puppy that you are sadly just another link in, and you seem to be a strong link. The child abused after you, before you and before them and after them all say the same thing: "why is it my responsibility?" That's why the abuse continues.

I'm not going to try to convince anyone to prosecute...but I will say this: for once it's a good idea to be a weak link in the chain. They need to be stopped. If you don't do it, and if no one else does it...they will go unpunished.

"To sin by silence when we should protest makes cowards of men" is a famous quote that I love. Sometimes protesting and standing up is hard, and sometimes it's impossible. But someone has to do it.

 

[Kirk Wayne]

Puppy

"i have lost SO many nights of sleep and convinced myself i am just as bad as him, because i dont have the balls to do something about it. yes other kids are being abused. hes doing it to other kids. he has to be. people like that dont just stop".

This is exactly what happened to me aged 44 but then again I had smothered those memories with the aid of alcohol/drugs for nearly thirty five years.

"but some of us just are not strong enough to do that".

Not at this precise moment in time I suspect most of us have had that thought. Speaking purely for myself I found it easier to talk to a complete stranger as they were not aware of all the emotional baggage that I hauled around with me and they couldnt be judgemental of me as they didnt know me before disclosing.

Puppy you say you are weak, I am afraid I am going to have to disagree, it takes incredable bravery to say the things you have and to admit to feeling weak ... I would say that takes a lot of guts for waht we have all been through no one could ever call us weak, we are survivors and we have endured a lot more than most people could ever take (or ever imagine).

Best wishes

Kirk
"Instigate change, as it appears it wont come naturally in our cause. Sometimes it needs a little forcing".