some 12 step group issues

[EdfromNYC]

Hi

I've recovered in two areas and am doing amends and going along. But having had those two areas "solved" is leading to greater awareness of being in rooms with many other people who did not suffer from CSA. It is okay to find that out but I am finding that to recover from CSA is not being covered by the 12 steps in the traditional AA format.

For one, anger being a "dubious luxury" (for those in the know). I just want to say - nope, being a CSA survivor has special anger stuff related to it often that needs expression and I got sick of people telling me that my anger was "wrong" or needed to fit into the 4th/5th step. I was right and I am getting better. I am much less an angry person but anger does come up and it isn't resentments and it needs to come out. It turns into sadness and grief and acceptance but the anger stage is incredibly important. To turn off the anger toward me and onto those who deserve it is so healing and taking care of self.

And that brings me to another point in my recovery through 12 steps. The programs says be helpful, helpful, helpful and I was and MY LIFE got nowhere because I wasn't getting nearly as much help as I needed. I've since made adjustments and I am now actively seeking better help and support while still giving but in a much more balanced way. Giving help is an art, not a science and many in 12 step groups will tell me to give help until I'm spent.

Hopefully others have similar experiences or their own that are dissimilar but familiar. I am currently checking out a 12 step group that is about CSA and I am finding it solid which I was surprised by. It is a different orientation toward solving the problems around CSA than solving the issues around other 12 step oriented groups.

This is obviously a very particularized post that will only reach a few people. I have recovered from substance and behavior addictions and now I feel like I can really recover from CSA. I have a lot of hope. If anyone else is suffering through any kind of chemical or behavioral addiction and needs direction or support, please feel free to reply.

Ed

 

[bey]

Hey Ed
I was in NA for opiate addiction and found it a horrible fit for me and csa issues. I hear people have success with SIA and such but I'm kind of forever turned off 12 step.
Glad you are finding your way
Ben

 

[KL]

Ed,

I've had very similar experiences with AA. To be honest, I didn't stay long for the very reasons you describe. I found it to be one of the more lonely experiences of my recovery....to not be able to express myself about the issues I faced with my boyhood CSA left me feeling alienated and unproductive. To me, it was a huge waste of time.

Maybe I was in a bad group. They all seemed to be long lost friends and well acquainted with one another. In many ways I felt like an outsider who was intruding into their club. I did try. In the end it wasn't for me...especially when I asked one of them after a meeting when we would "talk about why we have issues with alcohol," and explained that I used it as a sleep aide and timidly and briefly touched on why. I was told to see a therapist about "that stuff".

It was frustrating. Isolating. They all seemed to have a desire for alcohol, licking their lips when they spoke about it, and so on, many treated it as unquenchable thirst, but few wanted to get introspective on why they felt the way they did or where those feelings originated. I like introspection, thoughtful conversation and so on...I didn't fit in. I haven't been back.

To this day the only group about CSA that I've joined is this digital one. The southern states have very few support groups that deal directly with this subject matter. And the ones that are here - are too far away and wouldn't be logistically practical because of their distance from my locale. I still struggle with alcohol at night. It's getting better - or at least I tell myself that. If you have suggestions or tips on how you beat it I would love to hear. I know in the end that the only person who's going to help me quit is myself. I get that. But I'm all ears on anything that you may be able to suggest.

And as side note - I really enjoy your quote/poem in your signature. There's such an abundance of feeling that lives inside many of us that it's hard to convey through writing or speaking. Just words, in so many ways. I'm jotting that down - it's wonderfully sincere. I'm glad I read it today.

KL

 

[Jay1946]

On the positive side, I've been doing a Spiritual Journey 12 Step Program and it was in the process of doing the steps, that the memory of my childhood sexual abuse popped out in most vivid detail. I'd done psychotherapy and seen several counselors in the past, and at no time did this memory come up.

The retrieval of that memory has been the first step in a journey of discovery and recovery, whereby I've been able to put together many pieces of the puzzle of my life. I'm grateful that I embarked in this 12 step journey.

One other guy in the group was abused in his childhood, and he totally gets it when I express my feelings on the subject and talk about the consequences. Because of him I don't feel like I'm the only one. I don't feel alone.

 

[Elad1]

Ed:

Excellent topic!!

Where do I start...First You nailed it for me regarding anger. AA and Al-anon discourages the need to express and to process anger. Also this amends business which I never fully understood until recently with the realization of csa. Its always about apologizing to others, what?? (what about all hurtful things they did me, the re-victimization over and over and over again) they never told me the first person I should apologize to is to my younger self for whom I forgot, ignored and hated for decades. I didn't qualify for AA but I most certainly qualified for Al-anon big time because my addiction was not alcohol but practicing alcoholics!!! I've collected many of them over the years and they created mass destruction in my life. I am 100% free from them now yet I am still recovering financially and emotionally from the chaos. Now I understand why it happened, I didn't have a choice, yes that is right, I didn't have a choice! I was hard wired due to csa/ emotional and physical abuse. This line of thinking is not compatible with AA/Al-anon because they were always telling me I had a choice, look at my part, my involvement that allowed the bashing and destruction of my soul and self esteem as if it was my fault, F#@# them. So yes the only person I make amends to is my younger self...F#@*!!! all the others! F@#$* A-holes!!! I did attend AA for a time for no other reason than "If I can't fight them, join them." As one 30+year member told me the #1 goal of AA is simple, not to have a drink. So I settled comfortably in the rooms of Al-anon for years. I haven't been going to meetings in the last six months because I need to understand how to integrate my csa with the program. I do read the daily reader books because there are always bits of nuggets to be had and words I can relate. I disclosed to my sponsor my csa and to my surprise she said she is a survivor too, so much to talk about. Yet in an Al-anon room full of people, I would unfortunately be sitting in silence with this "taboo" subject and as some would run for the doors dare I say anything about it.

 

[bluesky]

Hi all this is my second post in about a few months or more. I've not been emotionaly able to respond to many posts but I have been reading many every day. But today is a different day and I can today so I am.
This is a topic that really resonate with me. I whent to a 12 SA meeting about 3 years ago and besides being completely triggered by the subject mater and the fact that many in the room where gropers and one guy was in to child porn. After that meeting I went into a dissociative state that almost led to me ending my life. They kept using the acronym MO like they where all criminals and there was this great feeling of gilt and shame in the room. I nevere went back and never will.

I am working on puting together a group for Male Survivors. I don't know if it will be 12 step based or not but it will be a place of understanding and not dogma or a new adiction.

 

[JustScott]

Same here, 12 steps aren't anything valuable to me. I too tried a local SLAA and like Bluesky found, it was like they were all criminals... however in my case... there WERE all criminals. Literally everyone talked about their PO (which took me a few weeks to figure out)... yeah they were all there to satisfy their PO.... I was like really..... Am I the ONLY person here because he wants help???

About the same time I started another fellow did, and he was digging deep and actually began to figure out WHY he had issues... and one night was sharing and was cut off right in the middle and was told straight up... "we only deal with the behavior here".... I was quite taken aback. To me, deal with the cause and the issue will correct itself. But no.... they only deal with the behavior... no wonder they say once and addict always and addict.... leave the cause and YES you'll ALWAYS be looking to use.

I was done with that group the one night I got to listen to a child molester hog the entire hour and do nothing but make excuses and blame EVERYONE else for his issues..... DONE. Never been back.

I'd love to find other help and resources, but in nearly a decade of looking, that was really the only group I ever came across.

 

[EdfromNYC]

Thanks to all. I got something from every reply. I appreciate each person's perspective and experience. Being in NYC, there are so many 12 step groups that I am "lucky" to have them to choose from.

I will continue to go. I also know a lot of people were abused and a lot weren't and my CSA has been a driving force in my addictions/acting out behaviors unlike most people in the rooms. I talk about it and have found others who have done so and I am started to finally go "f*ck em" if they don't like what I have to say. I am a grown man in those rooms with the same behavior that got me there and I'm gonna say what I need to say to get well. But I'm foolish and I don't expect identification or patient people wanting to deeply listen - maybe some here or there.

I have had success in 12 step rooms. A big part of the reason is being in NYC and having "stuck" through the horribly uncomfortable early stages. However, each of us must take care of himself and if the room is too triggering, I would definitely stay away. But if anyone ever chooses to go back and wants support from a fellow traveler, feel free to PM me and I will support you.

Ed

 

[MrEdd]

I think that the issue with expressing anger is not common to all twelve step programs.

I have been in a couple where it was expected for issues like CSA.

 

[unhappycamper]

I rejected the 12-Step formula for CSA as soon as I found out it asks a rape victim to "surrender to a higher power."

John

 

[KMCINVA]

I have not seen a 12 step program in my area for CSA. I have sat in on 12 step programs and to be honest never fully grasped the inner workings. One thing I did notice the programs seem to focus of the outcome--addiction for example--but does it address the underlying emotional or psychological issue leading and sustaining the addiction? Many survivors suffer addiction as a way to cope, would the 12 step program for the addiction address the CSA? I am just curious and find the thread informative.

Kevin

 

[unhappycamper]

Kevin:

I've seen some materials for CSA 12-step programs, but as I mentioned above, I found the idea repulsive. Some people find it helpful.

JOhn

https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Steps-Survivors-Childhood-Sexual/dp/147506022X

 

[Kreecher]

I started and facilitated a local Survivors of Incest group, limited my group to male survivors only, in Columbus, OH 5 years ago. It's a 12 Step group and it was very helpful. We had as many as 8 people at one time. We had to dismantle when I was forced to move elsewhere (out of State).

SIA website is https://www.siawso.org/ - like ALL 12 Step programs it is spiritual; BUT, as in a completely different Step program I'm in now, there are ways to work the program without having to be religious. We told our participants that the group itself can exist as one's Higher Power, because the group is larger than the individual.

SIA 12 Steps are geared towards survivors, and allow for anger and for the inability to forgive our abusers. Here are their Steps:

1. We admitted we were powerless over the abuse, and the effects of the abuse, and that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a loving Higher Power greater than ourselves could restore hope, healing, and sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a loving Higher Power as we understood Higher Power.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves, the abuse, and its effects on our lives. We have no more secrets.
5. Admitted to a loving Higher Power, to ourselves, and to another human being our strengths and weaknesses.
6. Were entirely ready to have a loving Higher Power help us remove all the debilitating consequences of the abuse, and became willing to treat ourselves with respect, compassion, and acceptance.
7. Humbly and honestly asked a loving Higher Power to remove the unhealthy and self-defeating consequences stemming from the abuse.
8. Made a list of all the people we had harmed (of our own free will), especially ourselves and our inner child, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would result in physical, mental, spiritual or emotional harm to ourselves or others.
10. Continue to take responsibility for our own recovery, and when we find ourselves behaving in patterns still dictated by the abuse, promptly admit it. When we succeed, we promptly enjoy it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with ourselves and a loving Higher Power, as we understood Higher Power, asking only for knowledge of Higher Power’s will for us and the power and courage to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to other survivors and to practice these principles in all our endeavors.

 

[bey]

When I was just starting to try to get clean in my 20s a friend at 12 step asked me "why are you using heroin?" And I started to answer when a couple "old timers" told me flat out I used because I was an addict, anything else I consider is working against the steps.
Luckily I actually said to the person privately that I'd been abused and he said "yeah same here" and I found a lot of healing and forgiveness in admitting that I was using for a reason not just because I was a dumb shit.
For me private addictions therapy was good. Equal parts dealing with triggers and concrete stuff to stay clean. Not that it's been easy but it's for sure easier than it was.

 

[KL]

I rejected the 12-Step formula for CSA as soon as I found out it asks a rape victim to "surrender to a higher power."

John

Haha, love it.

 

[EdfromNYC]

Kreecher (just got your name's meaning!)

I am starting SIA with phone meetings and I am finding it to be GREAT! There is this sort of mystery site https://www.siacominghomephoneline.org/meetingschedule.html that i found and it is very very good with the meetings and solid recovery.

I am glad that you had positive experiences to share. I've had them too and I have met other abuse survivors in the rooms. I am so tired of the 12 step/not 12 step debate which was never my agenda. Please, if you don't like the steps or the higher power, I understand but, IMHO, there's other places for that. It helped me but it has it's limitations as does ANYTHING.

I am a resource if anyone is needed help or support in 12 step areas. I have a lot of experience to share and I've made more friends than I've ever had in my life through doing the work of those programs. I also see my own wounds (wrote "damage" at first but wounds heal) much clearer and see where I have more to deal with than many others but that doesn't make me feel less than. It makes me feel that I simply have some things to deal with that others don't and I get the chance to not feel sorry for myself about it too.

Thanks for the positive experience.