So Uncertain

[Michael1965]

I am totally struggling with this whole thing. I have received a lot of great advise and support but I don't think I can do this. I have so many things that I can never share with my wife or daughters. It would destroy them and their lives. No wife or daughter wants to know what I did with other men. It would bring so much shame to their lives. They would never be able to look at me in a way that I could handle. I cannot sacrifice their lives to save mine. They are aware of my abuse.

In order to protect them I have to continue to carry the dirty secrets inside of me. I have done that for nearly 40 years and it is killing me. So all of the talking and sharing seems for nothing. I cant do what I need to do to heal.

So many have told me that I need to stop giving my abuser power over me and take back my life. In order for me to take my life I feel that I need to be honest about my past, but I am not willing to make them pay that price. It would only deepen my shame and guilt.

They tell me that they love me but I don't understand what love is. To me love me means that you are going to use me, hurt me and then leave me. It also means that I have to be perfect with no flaws or mistakes. I don't know what love is supposed to feel like. My T tells me that it can be the simple act of people doing things for me or being there when I ask for help.
I never let people do things for me because I would have to do something in return, I would owe them. I never ask for help for the same reasons.

I don't know who I am sexually!

I just don't know what to do. I can't expose my past because no one would understand. I live in a small rural community in the bible belt. Everyone knows everyone. There is no grace, only condemnation. The church has taught me to hate myself because of the things I have done. I am an abomination to God. I do believe in God, but just not a God for me.

So here I am still stuck in hell. I am given all of this terrific advise and support and I can do nothing with it but hate myself more.

I love talking to the guys on chat because at least I get to witness other guys escaping from this. Helping each other move forward. I guess I am living vicariously. I have never had a close male friend because I am afraid that I will try to have sex with him and mess that all up. But on here I can have friends because it is on line and they are safe from me.

I am just so tired of it all.

Mike

 

[nomad510]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for sharing just part of your story and how you're feeling right now.

I can relate to some of it. Especially the shame and guilt of acting out some same sex attraction where it related to how I was abused. This caused tremendous shame for many years until I finally had to deal with my sexual abuse directly in therapy and also all of my family got to be made aware of it, (they became a huge support - except for my perp who was my father).

It was during this time I began to accept some of the things I did, they were actually very normal given the fact that I was abused by my father. It was horrible what he had done to me, not horrible how I acted out the sexual abuse. That part was normal.

As far as sexuality. I've come to believe that it's very likely that there is no such thing a someone being 100% straight or 100% gay. Now, what someone does (action) may be 100% straight or 100% gay but their feelings or attractions may be in a gray area if they were really honest with themselves. Many men who act super macho are really just hiding something. I tend to trust people who are just comfortable in their own skin and not trying to prove any kind of masculinity, (driving over sized trucks, talking obsessively about sports or guns, about how big of a steak they just ate, etc ... things that they think "makes them a man").

I've pretty much came to the agreement that I'm a sex addict. But I'm not acting out like I used to. The urges are less and while I try to live a life of integrity, if I falter I don't hang myself. My heart is still the same.

As far as the small town in the bible belt. Wow I've lived there too, and boy did that suck. When I was at my peak shame period, I remember suffering on a daily basis, feeling horrible for what I had done and just looking around at my work place and thinking none of these people can really help me. No one was able to help me in a place that is supposed to be all about love. No one wanted to dig deeper, help me get to the root of why I acted out. Nobody could. I have come to despise small town America and much of the south for this reason. I feel like they demonstrate behavior that is cancerous to themselves and community. But that's not what this is about right now.

I believe in God and want to go to heaven just as much as the next guy. I have my doubts whether I will go or not, but as my journey progressed my beliefs and experiences changed and for the better.

I hope this can help by me sharing some of my experience and how you're not the only one.

All the best.

 

[vrocotamy]

I have never had a close male friend because I am afraid that I will try to have sex with him and mess that all up. But on here I can have friends because it is on line and they are safe from me.

I am openly gay (and have been for over half my short life), but still struggle with this feeling about close male friends - that my desires will corrupt the friendship, and that they are threatened by me. But this association of same-sex desires (which may or may not indicate sexual orientation) as always predatory is a distortion, albeit an understandable one if your formative experiences around male-male sexual experience were abusive and traumatic. Just because you were abused - and I read your story and your abuse was most definitely not your fault - does not mean you are dangerous or a predator. Nor does it mean you're dirty. Nor that you're an abomination to God. It seems like you know you need to "forgive yourself" (not that there's anything to be sorry about) and be more honest in order to have a more fulfilling and honest life, but that your low self-worth gets in the way. I see that you feel desperate and hopeless, but, hopefully, you can come out of this with the knowledge that you're worth more than what you call your "dirty secrets."

 

[nomad510]

Mike,

And another thought, and this is just a personaly belief. I don't believe that you have to tell your wife and daughters how you acted out sexually with other men to heal.

1. As you stated they may not know how to process the information. Why put them though something if it's not required for you to heal.

2. It's more about you accepting and facing it rather then them. You have to see yourself in your own eyes as acceptable. And everyone else will follow. They don't need to know every deep dark secret.

3. It's different than the secret of sexual abuse. Because when you keep that secret you're really keeping it for the perpetrator not for yourself. In effect you're protecting someone who did something very evil and destructive and keeping this secret is what causes trauma.

These are just my own beliefs. I imagine that my sisters and mother may have suspected that I had some bi behavior happening but I really don't care that much and I think they accept me and love me just the same.

2 cents

 

[Michael1965]

Thanks for sharing with me guys. You have given me somethings to think about. I just want to get better and start living again.

You guys make a difference

Mike

 

[Duckie]

deleted

 

[AlexBoyd]

Michael,

I'm sorry that somewhere along the way you got the impression that you must divulge all details to your family in order to heal. Above, nomad in his second post, makes three very important points worth pondering.

Quite a few here are married with children and have been with men. I'm not sure my wife would understand, but every relationship is different.

You have found us and you can talk to us about it. You don't have to keep things bottled up inside.

Trust yourself. There is no prescribed route to getting better.

 

[Bardo]

Michael,
I agree with Nomad and Alex. More important to disclose to a good therapist and work to figure out the right things to tell your family and way to tell them. That sounds like it might be a good path for you. To divulge your abuse to your loved ones is a huge step. The rest can come as it seems appropriate. We are here for you, you are definitely not alone!

Freeman

 

[gettingstronger]

(TRIGGER WARNING: SOME RELIGIOUS COMMENTS)

Michael,

A lot of what I wanted to say was already said above, so no point in repeating it. But if I may, DON'T feel like you have to divulge all the grisly details to your wife and family. My wife knows I was molested and by whom, (a husband and wife, then an older neighbor boy for several years, then a next-door neighbor who made one failed attempt.) But I've never gone into the details of what they did. She doesn't need to know all that, and it won't help my healing one iota.

And that's the key here: What is going to help YOUR healing? At this point, it's all about YOU and what you need to get into a better place in your life. This may sound weird if you're not used to putting yourself first, but it's true.

So beating yourself up for things that happened with other men is going to have no positive effects whatsoever. You don't need even more guilt and shame-- you (like all survivors!) already have more than you need! Like AlexBoyd said, acting out with other men isn't uncommon, even among married men. Instead of beating yourself up, see if you can figure out what's driving it, then look for healthy alternatives. That's a lot in a short sentence, but that's also what therapists are for.

(A FEW RELIGIOUS NOTES HERE...)

Finally, don't fall into the fire and brimstone stuff. Yes, a tremendous amount of churches frown on same-sex activity and sex out of wedlock, but there's more to it than that. These churches forget a Jesus who, in the Gospels, only got angry at those who felt they were so self-righteous that they needed no salvation. He got furious at them. Case in point: The Pharisees.

But when he encountered a woman living in sin at the well, tax collectors, and so on, he was nothing but gentle. So even if He doesn't approve, it doesn't mean He doesn't love you and want the best for you. You're NOT an abomination! We've all, every one of us, got things we're ashamed of. And some sins are ongoing even if we don't want them to be. So my point is, I honestly believe He knows you far better than you know yourself, and He's not going to write you off. Again, you're NOT an abomination. Those "holy ones" in the pews every Sunday should consider their own sins before throwing stones.

I wasn't trying to turn this into a religious commentary, and I could have PM'd you, but it seemed your comments warranted a more public response. Take care of yourself, be kind to yourself, and don't let others--especially those with their own baggage--interfere with your healing or make you feel even more isolated.

Bob

 

[Michael1965]

Bob

I thank you for thoughts and encouragements. I have never been good at doing things for myself. I guess that is another issue from abuse. I seem to never consider what is best for me and my recovery. I continue to want to make everyone else comfortable and happy while I suffer in silence.

Bob you have been a good friend to me since I first joined MS and you will never know how much I appreciate you. The fact that our experiences and insecurities were very similar has given me comfort in that you can understand a lot of the events fears.

I appreciate you sharing that you have not given the details and that it works. I really needed to hear that.

Thanks

Mike

 

[Serious Dave]

Michael,

I am sorry that you are suffering so. Please take comfort in knowing that everyone here sees you as a loving and worthwhile person.

It's tough to tell anyone what's inside of us. It feels like poison or a disease that we don't want to infect others with. We also fear rejection or retribution. The problem is that it is a poison that is hurting you more than it would likely hurt others. And, the poison was put there by abuse. It was not your doing; it was done TO you.

Unfortunately, the only relief I've found so far is in doing the exact thing I am terrified of doing - telling someone. When I do, it exposes my life-long beliefs about myself for what they are - LIES.

You might be able to do it in a gradual, more tolerable way if you enlist the help of your T. Perhaps your wife could be brought in on a need-to-know basis. I'm not sure you need to give all the explicit details to anyone, including your wife. I wouldn't feel obligated to do so. I recently told someone at work whom I hardly know, and I didn't give a lot of detail. Still, the exercise was enormously therapeutic, and I now have someone who supports me and doesn't look down on me. He considers me brave for telling, and considers himself honored that I would trust him with such an intimate secret. I had to risk to get the reward. And, what one man can do, another can do.

I think that, because we see ourselves in such a bad light, we project those feelings onto those around us. Please consider that the reaction you expect from your family may not be the one you really get. Give them credit for the capacity they have for loving you because of who you are. No doubt, they think more highly of you than you think of yourself. They don't want perfection, they want YOU; all of you.

Consider that you aren't really protecting them by keeping the secret. When you keep secrets, you make matters worse, not better. You can never be present for them in the way they need and that you desire if they don't know who you are. My marriage of 29 years was destroyed not by the truth, but by keeping the secret.

About love:

M. Scott Peck defines love this way:

"Love is the will (both desire and willingness) to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth... Love is as love does. Love is an act of will -- namely, both an intention and an action. Will also implies choice. We do not have to love. We choose to love."

Your family doesn't have to love you. They love you because they WANT to love you. "...Love is as love does." You can know they love you by the fact that they are there with and for you. This definition is what they mean when they say they love you. They give you their love because they desire (choose) to give it, not because they expect anything in return. They love you for WHO you are to them; husband and father. (This was a hard lesson for me to learn too - you're not alone in this.)

I never really struggled with sexuality because I understood, early on, that SSA was foreign to who I was prior to the abuse. The only thing I can suggest is to think about whether or not you had SSA feelings before the abuse. It might give you an indication of your "original programming," so to speak.

Many thanks to Bob for blasting so-called Christians who point their fingers at others while they hide their own transgressions from view. To God, there is no sin that is worse than another. "ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." These idiots need to quit thumping their bibles and start reading them. Don't listen to those fools. God desires to bring all men to himself. God loves you no matter what you've done, and He certainly doesn't condemn you for things the abuse caused!

I know that, even with the best advice possible, it's still the hardest thing in the world to tell. But, you are stronger than you know. I wish you peace and courage as you wrestle with this.

Dave

 

[robwk1988]

1

 

[AlexBoyd]

Your family doesn't have to love you. They love you because they WANT to love you. "...Love is as love does." You can know they love you by the fact that they are there with and for you. This definition is what they mean when they say they love you. They give you their love because they desire (choose) to give it, not because they expect anything in return. They love you for WHO you are to them; husband and father.

While I admire the kindness of Serious Dave's overall message, I think Michael is concerned that his family does not know WHO he is (not that his identity is defined by the abuse or subsequent acting out with men) and, likewise, his role as a husband and father brings no guarantees of love.

Similarly, reducing this situation to a matter of lies vs. truth is an oversimplification. Revealing the abuse to his family is a wholly different beast than revealing extramarital activities (regardless of why or with whom). That kind of revelation can be a bitter pill for a spouse and children to swallow.

I'm sorry if I sound pessimistic or jaded, but this is an incredibly complicated and delicate matter.

 

[Serious Dave]

Nothing in life is guaranteed, hence my acknowledgement that telling entails risk and should be undertaken in a careful and measured way under the direction of a professional.

Furthermore, please note that I stated that I don't believe every detail must be revealed for therapeutic effect to be realized, as in my own example. What details are ultimately revealed is a personal choice best made with a T.

I opt to assume that, since Michael's family says they love him now, as he is - their current perception of WHO he is - that they really do. No one can say what the reaction would be if he discloses. I was careful not to say it would be positive because, again, I don't know.

I am speaking only for myself in this; learning and telling the truth about what happened to me has been my salvation from a life of misery. And, that TRUTH told dispelled the LIE I lived by for 45 years. To me, that concept is simple yet not simplistic. It's the path of recovery that is hard and complex. I have seen nothing here at MS, nor have I read anything about CSA that would convince me that it would have been a good idea to keep the secret and continue to muddle through my life as it was. That said, my marriage is in the can and I don't have kids, so I don't have to worry about what my wife thinks about anything. Please know that I am filled with nothing but compassion for all those here who are suffering. Therefore, to the best of my ability, I will always try to be optimistic and help in a positive way.

Lastly, my posts are never about what someone SHOULD do. I don't presume to know enough about CSA or the person to give such advice, nor should I give it. What I always seek to do is to give the person some alternate ways of looking at the situation, especially when that person seems not to see any way out of their predicament. The choice of what to do will always be theirs to make. Given my own tendency to think in black and white terms, working to find these alternate ways helps me as well.

Dave

 

[DavoSwim]

Michael,

I read your story, and wanted to respond, so that you hear that healing is possible. I understand completely what you're saying - not knowing what love is and what it means, feeling that being friends with someone means you have to have sex with them. I kept isolated for decades, because I felt the same thing.

Again, you can heal and you can get better. You can be honest with your story without telling your wife and daughters. In this day and age, blabbing and telling everything is mistaken for honesty and that's not right. You can be honest with yourself and keep it to yourself. You're not lying by keeping it to yourself. The man your wife and daughters know and love is the real and honest you. To use an overused cliche, what they don't know won't hurt them, whereas what they do know may hurt them.

You are being an admirable man when you state your job is to protect them. You don't have to keep it inside you, even if you don't tell them your story. You have your T, and there your confidentiality is protected. You can tell your story here. The guys here will protect you and your story. You are safe here. What you tell is up to you, and only you. You can try talking just a little, and when you assess the results of speaking you can tell more and more of your story. You have the final say regarding what you reveal to others, and you are in charge of deciding how much is right to tell.

Love doesn't mean being exploited. That is evil. You don't have to be perfect to be loved. You are loved both in spite of, and actually because of your alleged flaws. Remember, you love your wife and daughters. I don't mean this insultingly, but they are not perfect, yet you continue to love them. Let them do the same. You don't have to be perfect to be loved.

When love exists, it doesn't make demands. You won't have to repay a favor. What you'll find is that when love is there, you'll want to give of yourself to make the other person happy.

I hope you can find the solace you seek in God. You are not an abomination to him. On the contrary, he loves you more than you know. It breaks his heart knowing what evil people did do you. In time, justice will be done, and he will have the final say.

You're on the right path. You're here and you're telling your story to those who do understand. Keep at it. It will get better. I wish you all the best.

Dave

 

[KMCINVA]

Michael

I am sorry you are struggling with so many things. I understand the process of taking your life back from your abuser is not easy. He left you with a sense of confusion as to who you are, he manipulated to believe it was your fault and thus creating the same and guilt. Your confusion as to sexuality is common,some survivors seek recreation of the abuse for various reasons, to recapture something they were manipulated to believe was good, to take control of the abuse. The abuse leaves an imprint. Once you are able to shed the guilt and shame and not allow the abuser to control, the issues you face will become clearer to you, you will find answers that have alluded you all these years.

Not feeling love or emotions is quite common for us survivors. We do not trust, we are stand offish, feeling distrust that we will be harmed again.

Healing takes work and it can be exhausting. I found letting it out, venting sharing, surrounding yourself with kind and compassionate people who do not judge was necessary. Support groups, doctors and my T were also essential for me. We all heal differently and require different processes to heal.

Let out your secrets. You do not need to share with your wife and daughters until you are comfortable sharing. There are others you can share with who will support and not judge. You may have to rely on friends, other family members, support groups, a therapist until you feel safe about sharing. Once you feel safe sharing is not difficult, because you begin to slowly take the control away from the abuser.

I hope you keep trying and find support. Are you working with a doctor or therapist? Are there any support groups you can attend? If you feel the church is condemning you, time to find a new church that will embrace you. I was always taught God is forgiving, sadly it is the people in the church who are not forgiving or understanding. There are churches that embrace all and do not condemn.

If you ever need to vent, or need a sounding board, I am here as are so many others at MS.

Take care of yourself and remember you have much to offer.

Kevin