So confuse, don't know what to do for the best or what he wants (Sorry it's so long)

[Bubbles]

Hi

Just needed to write something here. I've been given some great advice in the past and I don't know what else to do right now. I can't speak to anyone about this and I've been keeping so many conflicting thoughts and emotions inside that I feel as if I'm going mad.

My partner of 9 yrs has hurt me a lot. I feel so let down by the one person I've ever let myself become close to. He's always been so good to me, he is lovely and a great dad to our child. Maybe these are the reasons why I can't seem to let go.

Part of me feels as if things will never be the same again between us, he had all my trust and it feels like he's just taken it and laughed at me and ripped my heart out. Another part of me is understanding, knows that I'm to blame for the relationship being bad for so many yrs and I feel as if I should stick by him and help him.

This yr has been really bad, all kinds of stuff that I didn't know about him has come out. It all seemed to come out after we decided that we did want a relationship and wanted to make a real go of things. I've found things really hard to deal with, firstly he admitted that he had been to 3 prostitutes yrs ago. He said he had wanted to come clean for ages
and wanted to be honest before we went to counselling. He swore to me that he had no other secrets. Since then (about 11 months ago) I have done my best to understand and forgive and forget. The forgetting was really difficult, probably because he had lied so many times previously I felt as if I couldn't ever really trust him.

So, basically things were quite bad and I couldn't deal with it and we split up many times only to get back together a few weeks later. We can't seem to stay apart for long, there's still a lot of love there.

After yet another split up I found out he'd been phoning ppl from sex contact magazines. Again this totally destroyed my self confidence and my trust in him. Of course his excuse was that we were split up at the time and that when he gets low he tends to act out. He swore to me that he never met anyone but probably would have if he had the chance. He also admitted he had fantasies, usually when we were apart
and he's depressed, and that they involved orgies. This is something that I have no interest in whatsoever, I'm not prudish I love sex, but believe that it should be with one person who is special. All these things
were a real shock because I'd always taken him at face value, he treated me brilliantly therefore he loved me and would never hurt me.

I know he's satisfied when he's with me but after all that stuff came out always felt like the thoughts and temptation would always be there.

Now I seem to have something else to deal with and this seems to be the hardest one. I think he might be bisexual (why do I need to always do that - not want to believe things) he IS bisexual and I don't know how to deal with it. Maybe it's the trust thing, ie the way I found out. I never seem to find much out from him I've always got to snoop and find things. I understand though, he's ashamed and probably doesn't want to admit
things to himself let alone anyone else, but I feel hurt that he can keep so much of who he is from me. I now feel as if I don't know him, as if the whole 9 yrs have been a lie.

This is why I'm so confused, he tells me if things were good between us and he was happy that he wouldn't feel the need to act out. He says he loves me and wants to be with me and if he's with me wouldn't be with anything else, I believe he does want to be with me but find it hard to believe that the thoughts or acting out wouldn't happen.

I think all this stuff has had a major affect on me, my thoughts are totally conflicting from one minute to the next. It's as if I see him as 2 different ppl. I see him as my best friend who'll be here like a shot if I asked, the perfect father, the kindest person I've ever met and then there's his other side, the person who really knows how to hurt me with things I fear the most, lies, deceipt, infidelity (which I don't think
are intentional).

what I need from him right now is some answers, I need him to be straight and honest with me. I feel as if he's really messing with my head and I can't take it anymore. Maybe he's really confused too, maybe he does want me and I'm the one with the problem finding it difficult to believe that someone can love and want me but still desire other things too.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone I don't intend to but it's my personal feelings and maybe I'm the one with the problem. I have a problem understanding why anyone could be bisexual. I have no problems with gay ppl, I understand how women could be bisexual, what I don't understand is how men can be. I understand that being abused as a kid can greatly affect ppl, espcially men, but I seem to have a hard time knowing that my bf who loves women would want to be sexual with a man. Like most men, he loves
looking at women's bodies so I don't understand why he could be attracted to males. He says he's not, so am I the one with the problem thinking that to have sex with someone there has to be feelings/attraction? I should probably feel ashamed saying this but I have a hard time finding him still as sexy knowing that he has thoughts about men. Now I feel quite bad for saying that, I know that men here reading that might feel worse about themselves. I apologise but if possible would like to gain some understanding and
hopefully not have any bad thoughts about the man I love and respect even if it results in us just being friends.

It's probably be made worse by me finding out by reading his phone bill. Maybe if he'd admitted it to me himself it wouldn't have been so bad. He told me he'd had some kind of experience as a young teenager and I'd even asked him in the past and he denied it. I don't know how to treat him now, I want to be angry at him for keeping this from me, I feel stupid for not realising, I feel angry for finding that damn phone bill, I feel so sorry for him, I feel as if I shouldn't feel sorry for him and want to help him
cos he's just being himself and enjoying it. I don't know how to feel!!

Sorry to anyone who's actually managed to read all of this. It doesn't make much sense just like my mind. What do I do for the best, for him and for me. Being selfish I want answers, I want to know who he is so that I know what's real and what's not and what to do next. I also want to know if this is a problem for him, is it all because he was abused and he doesn't like doing it and needs my support in which case he will get my full support, I just don't want to change him if these are things he really wants (even tho it hurts me so much).

I know that no-one can read his mind, but maybe some ppl can relate to what he's going through. Can someone be seem so sincere and loving lead a double life? Maybe just wanting the family thing because he believes that's what's best?

I want to hold him right now and give him the love that he's craving (but I feel scared to get close to him), I want him to open up to me but not feel threatened, I want him to be able to admit all the things that he knows make me feel scared (without hating him for it), I want him to stop sending me mixed messages (ie telling me he wants me but still keeping little secrets or acting out when we're having problems). I want to know whether to be unselfish and let him do what he wants (things he's admitted to a few times) or stick it out and believe him when
he says he wants to be with me and try to overcome things?

In other words, to put it simply (as someone not so messed u and drunk would have done) how should I deal with things? Do I keep him out my life knowing that he upsets me? or do I try to be strong, push my opinions aside, be his friend and let him do whatever he wants (which would be damn hard too) or do I hold onto this belief that he's a bit messed up and doesn't like what he's doing and I should help him? How do I know if he's acting out or just actually enjoys it? I feel kinda like I'm satisfying my own needs by saying it's a problem and trying to stop him.

Again, no-one knows us and can say for sure, but I've read some things on here that've made me understand a hell of a lot more. If anyone can even understand what I'm saying, never mind give any advice, then you're a bloody genius! lol

Take care all of you, sorry for being so drunk, I just needed to let some stuff out.

Bubbles xx

 

[brokentoys]

Bubbles,
I really do not want to be rude here or anything, but I fail to see how it is okay for someone to be straight or gay, but not bi. I also cannot understand how it is okay for a woman to be bi and not a man. I think you have some real double standards that you need to address. I understand that sometimes the heart just wants what the heart wants, and if you cannot be with someone who is bisexual, that is your perrogative, but please don't pass a different judgement on someone for their sexual practices just because they are one sex or the other. Maybe he is trying to hide his acting out because he knows you feel this way and he does not want to hurt you or risk your scorn. Maybe he is just a thoughtless person, I can't answer that. What I do know is that you should both be in counseling if you want to make your relationship work long term.
Broken

 

[Bubbles]

Hi Brokentoys

It's ok you're not being rude. I appreciate any replies, that's what I wanted some unbiased comments.

If I actually said it's ok for a woman to be bi and not a man then I'm wrong, hopefully I said I can understand a woman being bi but can't understand a man. That's just me giving my honest opinion.
I can understand it because for me to be sexual with someone there has to be feelings or at the very least attraction, if a woman is bisexual I can understand it because there's attraction. What I can't understand is a man who's
attracted to females but isn't attracted to males but has sexual thoughts. I never said there was anything wrong with it, i just don't understand it. I understand gay men, but not bisexual men. I can only see it from my point of view, I like males, but can definitely see how males are attracted to women, because they're nice to look at.
I don't understand straight/bi males being attracted to other males when they say they're not attracted to them. My ignorance maybe, but how can I understand it if it's never explained to me?

You're right, I cannot change what my heart wants just as I can't change my own morals and beliefs. I'm trying to because I've learned that other people's have been affected by certain circumstances, but it's very difficult.

 

[kolisha54]

Hello!

Yes, I agree with B: it would be a very good time for you to look inside yourself & try to understand why you have such an antipathy to people who are just being who they are.

That being said: there is NO excuse for anyone abusing a partner's trust & then turning everything around & acting as if it is the partner's fault for being so "uncool" or lacking in compassion. And you know what else? Despite my personal feeling that Silence does = Death, there are some things which really need to be kept to one's self. I am wondering what your partner hopes to gain by disclosing all of this information to you & I am willing to bet that it has more to do with Power than with Love or Honesty. There is such a thing as using "truth" as an instrument of brutality - and when that happens, you are being abused.

You appear to be in an abusive relationship & it is very characteristic of emotionally abused partners to be conflicted about ending things. It may help you to do a little research into this kind of psychology & see how it fits your own circumstances.

Meanwhile, there is an excellent article in this month's O Magazine that deals with gay men who are in relationships with straight women: believe it or not, the story is not all bleak & it does help to recognize that Love sometimes presents itself in forms we cannot imagine.

Wish you peace.

 

[Lloydy]

Bubbles
I would doubt very much that your fella is bisexual, you say he looks at other women, and has had 'affairs' with other women BUT still has fantasies and thoughts about having sex with another man.

Someone who was bi or gay would also have have feelings towards the other same sex person, or at least a sexual attraction that was based upon desire for their appearance.
I fancy women who look like supermodels, but somehow I can resist. ( fat chance of any offers actually )
I have never ever looked at another man and though "I want to have sex with him" based on his looks or anything like that.
But I have had sex with another man, during my marriage as well. And that was based on nothing more than the effects of my abuse and the fact that 'we' were both in the same place at the same time seeking the same thing - sexual acts.
My guess is that those I acred-out with with were also Survivors of abuse, but we never even exchanged names, we certainly discuss why we were there!

From going to therapy and oing some difficult work for myself I can now see that I was trying to recreate the sex acts I did as a boy but this time with me in control.
In fact if the man I was acting-out with said anything or asked me to do something then I would run away, their 'asking' let them take control of me, and that wasn't a part of my plan.

For Survivors this kind of sex has very little to do with 'sex' and has a lot more to do with us trying to recover the control and power that our abusers excercised over us.

It doesn't work like that though, and if you can support him in such a way that he doesn't try then he'll save himself from learning a lesson in failure the hard way.

Dave

 

[SAR]

Bubbles,

What Dave has said to you here is my Quote of the Week. Maybe even the month.

Someone who was bi or gay would also have have feelings towards the other same sex person, or at least a sexual attraction that was based upon desire for their appearance.
I fancy women who look like supermodels, but somehow I can resist.

Most people expect their long-term partners to be monogamous and faithful. In my mind, the gender of the person my boyfriend is attracted to from across the room, is not as important as how he deals with that attraction.

Maybe he's really confused too, maybe he does want me and I'm the one with the problem finding it difficult to believe that someone can love and want me but still desire other things too.

I love and want my boyfriend, and have never been unfaithful to him in any way. But I "check out" men from time to time, does that mean he should be insecure? I don't think so, certainly I know enough to note the other person's attractiveness and then dismiss it. Not being able to do that is a matter of boundaries and messed-up attitudes about sex and relationships. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation in my opinion.

I have to disagree with Kolisha, if you've made it clear to him that you wanted no more lies, no more secrets, then I think he might be telling you these things in an effort to give you what you've asked for and help you reestablish trust in him. It would probably be easier for him to keep a painful secret inside where it can only hurt him and not you-- that was how my boyfriend justified keeping his scary secrets-- I had to reassure him (and myself!) that being hurt by the truth was tempered by the fact that he was confiding in me.

You are allowed to be hurt, you know. Maybe part of the reason you've been having such a hard year is that you have been trying so hard to forgive and forget-- but you're allowed to come to that in your own time, to have your own anger and fear and grief first. It takes time, patience, and hard work from both to rebuild a relationship, his SA doesn't change that.

SAR

 

[lostcowboy]

Hi Bubbles, Wow, you stuck a lot of stuff in your message. It will probably be best to put each subject into a separate post, to get proper responses.
Here is a post on acting out you may like to read. https://malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000681
They cover a lot of stuff in that post also.
Being that this seems to be centering on bisexual men and women. To me Bisexual means you are attracted to both men and women.
You said

I can only see it from my point of view, I like males, but can definitely see how males are attracted to women, because they're nice to look at.

This could be interpreted as you are attracted to women. Please, I am not attacking, just stating my opinion. I think a lot of the stress you are having is he is going out side the partnership to have sex. You and him may want to redefine the rules of the partnership. That does not mean giving in to him, It means stating what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable for the partnership. About these split ups that you and he keep having, Why spit up, why not stay and stick it out through the tough parts? If when you and him split up he thinks it is for good, it is no surprise that he starts looking for someone else. No one likes to be alone. Also the odds are high that he believes that if he comes clean about what he has done, that you would leave him. You are hurt that he doesn't trust you enough to tell you, you had to find out about it on your own. Back to Bisexual, Sometimes things happen, and guys feel compelled to cheat. Take me for example, I am used to being strongly attracted to women other than my wife, and I can resist acting on it. But when I was attracted to a man it took me so completely by surprise, that I did end up cheating on my wife. It was not the best thing I could have done by a long shot! If you would like to read about it, you can here. https://malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=43;t=000020

 

[Bubbles]

Hi Kolisha

Yes, I agree with B: it would be a very good time for you to look inside yourself & try to understand why you have such an antipathy to people who are just being who they are.

Yeah, you're right I shouldn't judge ppl for being themselves but it's very difficult when it's someone so close who has kept a huge part of himself from me and denied it every time I've asked.


Hi Lloydy

What you said does make a lot of sense I just wish I could believe that this is the case. He did actually say to me that he has thought about doing it to a man, which to me sounds like he is
trying to take some kinda control over the abuse. At the same time though, I keep thinking that it's what he wants and will just agree with me to keep me happy and keep himself in denial. I've
read a lot of things you've written and think it's amazing that you've managed to overcome it and have found happiness with your wife. How did you manage that? Sorry, you obviously don't have to answer
any of these questions I just feel as if trust will always be lacking if I stay with him but then I read your stories and feel as if there's some hope and if I thought things could actually change I would keep trying.
Do you still keep things from her? Were you completely open with her when she found out or were there things that you still found too shameful to admit? Did you feel resentful in any way that she had found you out and
you couldn't keep acting out?


Hi Sar

I have to disagree with Kolisha, if you've made it clear to him that you wanted no more lies, no more secrets, then I think he might be telling you these things in an effort to give you what you've asked for and help you reestablish trust in him. It would probably be easier for him to keep a painful secret inside where it can only hurt him and not you-- that was how my boyfriend justified keeping his scary secrets--
I had to reassure him (and myself!) that being hurt by the truth was tempered by the fact that he was confiding in me.

This is the thing that hurts the most. When he told me about the prostitutes I really admired him for having the guts to come clean. I kept asking him if there was anything else that he wanted to admit to and he kept saying no.
Ok, I know it's shameful for him to say to me 'oh by the way I think about being with men sometimes' but I keep telling him I don't care what you've done as long as you tell me the truth. I know I'm not perfect and have contributed
a lot to make the relationship bad but I really thought we were getting somewhere by going to counselling and admitting our mistakes.

I don't know what to do anymore. One thing that's really bad is the way that he can't seem to speak to me anymore. I used to be the one that was very closed off from him, always keeping things inside and he'd be open with me
now I can't seem to talk to him. He's changed a lot, he gets really defensive at times, when I try to speak to him he turns things around and puts it all back onto me. He never used to be like this and I can see that he's
becoming the way I used to be because I felt ashamed opening up and wanted to keep things inside that were too hurtful.

I don't know what to do now. Maybe I should just give up if he can't even speak to me. The only times I've received any kind of information is when we're both really wound up and usually when I'm drunk and can find the courage
to approach him. I seem to receive tiny bits of information from time to time and feel as if I'm the one that's supposed to put it all together and know what he's all about. He seems to dump all his crap onto me, saying things like, 'you knew that all along' when
he's admitted something that's upset me. So, not only am I having to deal with learning things I had no idea about (or did but had them denied so many times I believed it to be true) he seems to be putting blame onto me when he's the one in the wrong.

It now feels as if everything has been a complete lie. I said to him months ago, when were going to counselling, I'm scared that in a couple of yrs I'll find out more stuff that you've been hiding, now only 6 months later I have found out stuff.
I asked him last night how long he'd know he was bisexual and he said 5 yrs. I don't know what happened 5 yrs ago, I don't know how he knows and I don't know how to get anything out of him. All I want is for him to feel safe enough to let me
know who he is because I keep feeling as if he doesn't respect me by constantly keeping secrets from me. At the same time I also understand why he does it.

I also feel angry because times when I've felt a lot stronger I have left him. I moved out of our home last yr and tried to start again with my son. He keeps coming back though, letting me see his nice side, telling me he loves me and because I love him I take him back.


Hi lostcowboy

I have read your links (thanks for them , I will read them over again when I'm in a better frame of mind to take it in. My head's been a mess this whole weekend, everything's totally conflicting.


About these split ups that you and he keep having, Why spit up, why not stay and stick it out through the tough parts? If when you and him split up he thinks it is for good, it is no surprise that he starts looking for someone else. No one likes to be alone. Also the odds are high that he believes that if he comes clean about what he has done, that you would leave him. You are hurt that he doesn't trust you enough
to tell you, you had to find out about it on your own. Back to Bisexual, Sometimes things happen, and guys feel

You are right, a lot of it's my fault for splitting up with him. I find it so difficult though, I want to be with him but don't want to constantly feel paranoid and having to check up on him. To me, trust is the most important thing in any relationship, whether it's sexual or friendship. If someone abuses the trust I have in them I feel totally let down. When I split up with him
it was my kinda messed up way of saying things aren't right, I'm not happy. But I could never say that.

Yes, you're right I'm hurt because I had to find things out on my own. I keep telling him all I expect from him is to be honest with me. He was going on the other week about how he should have done more for me, bought me nice things and I'm like 'i don't want u to buy things I just want honesty'.

Maybe it's a lost cause, I dunno. Whatever I do feels wrong.

 

[Lloydy]

Bubbles
it's ok to ask questions, I'll try to answer them.

What SAR said is, I believe, the key issue between a survivor and a partner when there is a major issue such as acting-out is / has happened.

I had to reassure him (and myself!) that being hurt by the truth was tempered by the fact that he was confiding in me.

What a fine balance to maintain! From my position I had to learn to trust my wife, or rather trust my perception of my wifes reactions to my disclosures.
She knows that I have given strange men bj's, and that's a hell of a thing to come into a marriage.
But as SAR says we struck a 'balance' - it wasn't really discussed, we seemed to just arrive at it and it's led to an openness between us that we both find incredible. Perhaps we're lucky? but I do see others doing it as well, and I know that my missus and me aren't superheroes!

Do I tell her 'everything'? well no I don't. Because it's not essential.
If she knows that I've given bj's, does she need to know when, where, the exact circumstances? even the ultimate question "did I enjoy it at the time?" goes un-asked, and would probably go un answered.
The important thing for both of us is "what can WE do to stop it happening again?"
It's about moving on and not using the past as ammunition for future arguments or recrimination.

But millions of women and gay men can't all be wrong, so maybe giving bj's is a nice experience?
But the guilt and shame afterwards sure as hell outweigh any fleeting pleasures, so I know that I don't want to do it ever again.
I still have some degree of fantasy about giving bj's, and I've even thought about doing it with someone that I 'get to know' - maybe answer one of the 'curious' men that advertise in our local paper. Maybe there wouldn't be any guilt and shame attached to doing it that way?
But the conclusion I've come to, and I'm sticking to it, is that there would be damn nearly as much, so I'm not going there.

I make this effort because I know my wife trusts me, she always did but I just didn't realise it.
I owe it to both of us to return the new found trust I have.

Dave

 

[Bubbles]

Lloydy

Thanks for replying. I hope that we can stay as strong as you and your wife

I feel quite bad now for the things that I said. Probably wasn't the best time for me to write anything and I must have sounded really insensitive and immature. Yeah, I was in a bit of a state at the time and very confused and in shock but I need to try to stop focussing on my own hurt and try to see it from his point of view a bit more.

That's been the difficult thing. Although I understand why he acts out, my thoughts take over and tell me that it's not right, other people I know don't have to go through all this hurt, that he wouldn't do it if he truly loved me. But, really, that's totally unrealistic.

I suppose there's some good things that have come out after all the crap in the past yr. I've learned a lot, it's really opened my mind. It's made me realise that others go through a hell of a lot. Before all this I always kinda envied him. I envied him at times because he made me feel so pathetic, that my problems, in comparison to his, were nothing and yet he seemed to be strong and just get on with things. Now I know that it's not so easy for him, he has his own way of coping, it's just that his acting out is done privately, whereas when I've acted out it's usually through drink and being aggressive towards him. It's also made me realise just how distant we really were. Even at times I thought we were getting on we weren't really, it's just that we weren't arguing, we were getting on but there wasn't any closeness or real love there. It's been a blessing in disguise, it's made me aware of how much I love him. I always have but was always too scared to show it.

Hopefully things will now change for the better. I'm not expecting any miracles, I know we will no doubt struggle at times, but for the first time in ages I feel as if he really wants to be with me. My mind was totally screwed up for a long time there, I kept thinking that the whole relationship had been a lie, that everything was false and it really scared and upset me. I now realise this isn't the truth. When he was spending time with us as a family he was totally happy, it just so happens that the things he does when he's not so happy tend to be the things that upset me the most.

That's just unfortunate that we've both been affected by things and we act upon them in totally different ways. It's not his fault that I've become scared of getting close to anyone and feel threatened by him thinking about having sex with other people. That's why I find it difficult to deal with him acting out sexually, it takes a hell of a lot for me to even get close to anyone let alone have sex with them, so to me, sex = ultimate closeness. He views it totally differently but that's not his fault, just as the way I view it is not my fault, we just have to have more of an understanding towards each other.

Thanks to everyone on this board that have helped me understand cos you really have made a big difference. Before I wrote anything here I just thought it was all about ME. The other day I was ready to give up and say I couldn't take anymore hurt then I read an old post about not shaming
ppl and it really made me realise. We would upset each other, he'd act out,I'd get upset, try to get over it but at the same time shame him thinking it'd make him change, but only shaming him more and bringing him down more, therefore making him act out more and I'd feel worse than I did before.

Well, that's what I'm gonna do now, stop blaming and stop shaming cos it's getting us nowhere and I know he doesn't do these things to get at me or
because he doesn't love me. All I can do is stop trying to control him or his thoughts. As he's said,he's a simple man who's easily pleased, lol,
so all I can do is do my best to keep him and myself happy He's done a couple of things this week to really please me, he trusted me enough to tell me something that he thinks I don't agree with, and I was so surpised that he'd done this He also said he wanted to move back in with me, (still a bit wary of moving things along too quickly) but it's still fantastic.

Bubbles xx

 

[Enchantedlady]

Bubbles,

This is a very difficult situation to be in. My husband was abused, has fantasies about being with other men, wanting 3somes, me with another man, etc. I understand his boundaries are way out of whack and he tends to sexualize everything.

I've been with my hubby for 6 yrs now and finally he is being open and honest. He's gone online chatting sexually with other men and he lied to me about many things. He did meet one man 5 yrs ago and had oral sex. It was difficult to hear but he tells me everything (or so he says, but I'm trying to trust him)

For me I also understand what being abused is like since I was also abused. It effected me differently that it did him. So we both are in counseling.

The more my husband is in therapy the better it is. The more he understands that his behavior/thoughts are normal for his situation the more he feels less like a freak.

Take some time for yourself, take care of yourself. I have moments where I'm really scared and insecure but some of it has to do with my past.

We're here for you!!! I am so thankful for this place, I've learned a lot, I hope it's a blessing for you as well