Sleep issues :going to bed (self trigger?)

[Winston]

Hello all of you,

I think most of us are familiar with insomnia, or hypersomnia. My wife is very concerned about the fact that I won't go to bed before 2-3am.

We had a serious discussion on this topic, she was trying to understand, which helped. I realized that she was quite right, I stay up late on the pretext of working or reading. But I actually take products that maintain me awake. Moreover I don't work, I just browse in zombi mode.

I did not told her that, but I explained that even when trying, I find excuses to delay the time to go to bed. She asked me why I couldn't go to bed and read there, I answered without thinking that I was afraid to go to bed.

I felt quite bad just after saying that. Everything seemed weird, it felt like the world has changed in something slightly worst.

I couldn't give coherent explanation to my wife. I told her that I will explain later. I was sorry for her, I think she couldn't help to take this fear personally.

This leads me to two questions :

I am not a native English speaker, and I was thinking up to now that the word "trigger" referred to situation or stories that make us sad.
It's more than that isn't it? It's a psychological distress at least? And the "go to bed" story triggered something in me.

Do you experience insomnia or fear to sleep, and does someone found a way to cope with it? I am aware of Ambien, but it never helped me to sleep.

Although he help me work on my conversation skills with threes, part of my body, stuff floating around...
This is a terrible joke, I am sorry.

See you

 

[i-m-Bri]

One of the wonderful things about a good relationship is learning how to talk to each other. You get to think out loud. Explore the subject, call it the "wrong" thing, because you don't know the right thing. It sounds like your wife's innocent questions opened up some areas you haven't looked at. As uncomfortable as that is, it is a wonderful opportunity to learn more about yourself!

Sorry, I don't know anything about sleep.

 

[Mike58]

Hello,
I identify with your sleep issues. It has gotten better with therapy and healing but I still often need to remind myself I am safe. I double check the locks or leave some light on, sometimes. I think it was brave of you to tell your wife. Best wishes to you.

 

[Winston]

As uncomfortable as that is, it is a wonderful opportunity to learn more about yourself!

Thank you for this optimism, it is a total shift from my mental habits. I must admit I never considered learning thing about myself could be wonderful or even painless.
I might be a little pessimistic, I think it's due to this feeling of unavoidable doom ready to strike, destroying all life in Universe, leaving a cold, absurd and dead mechanic of rotating rocks. (I am over pessimist here, just to try).

I identify with your sleep issues. It has gotten better with therapy and healing but I still often need to remind myself I am safe. I double check the locks or leave some light on, sometimes. I think it was brave of you to tell your wife. Best wishes to you.

Thank for sharing, may I ask you what kind of therapy worked? Did you realized that insomnia was caused by dark fear, or did you always knew?
I was not brave to tell my wife, I did not think before answering. I would probably have lied to keep her away from what's wrong in me. It might be stupid but I don't want her to see me like that.

Thank you for answering

 

[ForeverFighting]

Winston, I went through that panic feeling trying to go to bed. For a while I would have to move to the couch to feel safe, which is obviously the past talking, because everything about sleeping in the bedroom with my wife is safe. I tried all kinds of things.

What has worked lately is to make what I need of a "nest" to feel like this is a cozy place. When things are more difficult, I have a sound app on my phone to play rain and wind, what my book calls "positive triggers"--sounds that remind me of good memories instead of bad. My therapist is big on using smells. If cinnamon or lavender or vanilla or whatever remind me of a good memory, she says to put it on the night stand by the bed. I’ve got my cozy spot, and honestly I’ve been using Benadryl this last week to help put me under for the first few hours. Sometimes I also try to get to sleep before my wife comes to bed, so my brain isn’t listening for people in the room. My psychiatrist has also changed my medications to lower my anxiety. I also find that sometimes I’m afraid of sleep because I know that will bring the next day’s anxiety. That’s a whole other internal conversation that I try to work out during long walks after work.

It’s unbelievable how much work we have to go to in order to do something as "easy" as sleep. But sleep is so important to have the internal strength the next day to deal with this stuff.

Sleep well, my brother. Do what you need to do to convince your insides that it’s OK and safe.

 

[KMCINVA]

Winston

Sleep deprivation was very common for me. As the nightmares and flashbacks escalated, I did not sleep. For a year I dreaded closing my eyes, all I could see in my silence was the abuse. Triggers were around me. Once the abuse became known to others, it was used to re-traumatize me and I feared closing my eyes. I still, and thankful without effect, hear words, see actions inflicted to stir the memories of the abuse. Sad, how people around us can be so cruel and unenlightened.

Sleep is so important because as I learned exhaustion only makes the mind go into overdrive--causing fears and reliving of the trauma over and over. For me, it continued to push me into dissociation--longer episodes and periods of the unknown.

I think many survivors experience the fear of sleep because the mind seems to go to the abuse when our senses our down.

I too am hesitant on medication. I was given seroquel--boy did it make me sleep, 24 hours at a time. And when I did sleep those that complained I did not sleep not said I was taking illegal drugs to help me sleep. It was a no win situation.

I can tell you as you heal and accept the abuse, and the timing of such will vary for each of us, you will begin to enjoy your sleep. I struggled for years and had very low points. Lack of sleep can push people to their wits end.

Talk to a doctor and see what they can do to help until the time you have been able to release the pain of the memories. Once the memories no longer control, sleep should return.

Take care of yourself. I suffered sleep deprivation for years and it nearly killed me. So please do no allow yourself to fall into this trap.

Kevin

 

[Winston]

Thank you very much for your answer. You clearly took the time not only to offer an answer, but the general construction suggest that you want to help.

I know it's weird to talk about the way your answer is constructed, but you moved me (like strong feelings). This never happened to me on forums.
I noticed at various time that this place had something special. I have now affection you. This is truly magic.

I will try the positive trigger, it sounds a very good idea. I do have a psychiatric following, but I never managed to talk about the real stuff. He said that I have type 1 bipolar disorder and provide me with drugs.
I don't know how I could tell him. I know that there is nothing to be afraid but I know that better safe than sorry.

If you have any advice on a way to start discussion with someone in front of you. I will take it asap.

Thank you for your answer!

 

[Winston]

Hi Kevin, thank you for taking time to answer.
I am aware of the importance of sleep, and that I am playing with fire. To be honest if I am really too tired and start feeling I am no longer in the real world, I do something stupid but effective : benzo and alcohol.
Very effective only if you have a strong tolerance to both, otherwise it can kill you. Just to be clear, don't do it.

I have been on seroquel and never again. I was always exhausted, I had no pain but no joy. No feeling globally. I was doing what I was asked to do. A good patient. It's not a medication, it's just something that help psy by removing the self.

I never talked with a psy of what happened. I just can not. But going back on lack of sleep, it's something I actively seek. Mainly using chemicals, at some point around 5am going to bed become natural. So I switch from speed to benzo and have a good 3h.

I am aware that I can not continue like this. It is very likely that 6 more month will kill me. Funny thing is I don't wanna die.

Life is a bitch

 

[KMCINVA]

Winston

I too would not be in the real world. My dissociation increased where I disconnected from myself and reality. I would wander at times, begone a few days and I wonder if I slept during those days or not. Sadly in the dissoacitive fugue I had no memory of the time. Doctors have said this was a coping mechanism to escape the pain of the memories.

I too was on seroquel for a short period of time. I found myself constantly dragging, heavy eyelids and wanting to put my head down and close my eyes. I came off the medication because of those reasons. I did not resort to any other sleep medication.

Please try to find a solution that will not put you in harm or jeopardy. Benzo maybe effective to knock you out for a few hours but long term not healthy. Alcohol depending of frequency and amounts can be beneficial but dependency could have long term consequences. Many people choose alcohol or drugs to cope, to escape the pain. Studies have shown a very high percentage of addictions can be trace to childhood trauma such as CSA. The trauma needs to be treated.

Only you can decide what is right for you. I know it is difficult to let out the pain and memories. Burying them appears to be taking a toll on you. Have you thought of a support group of other men who have suffered CSA. I found them helpful because their understanding is one of experience and not knowledge.

I hope you find a healthy way to cope. I can tell you my dissociation was not a healthy way to cope--it may have taken me to places I would not have gone. I will never know.

Take care of yourself and remember we are here for you.

Kevin

 

[Winston]

Thank you K.
You are helping a total stranger, for no reason other than empathy. I respect that a lot.

I just feel not to deserve any of your time or empathy. I am not the worst person, but I bring people that try to help me, or people that love me, in the hell of my mind.

I can act like a normal human, but I know something is broken deep inside. Otherwise I would be less obsessed with finding an "accident" that will put an end to this with less possible pain to people I love.

I could also confess what happened to me to my wife, but she would suffer badly. Can I do this to her, only to be less miserable?

Anyway, I cannot change the past. Should I confess to the few people I love and be honest or should I shut up?

And these shit will never end? Supposing I live and have child, when they will be grown up, shall I talk to them about grandpa?

Sorry Kevin, I might sound aggressive, but it's not against you at all. I just feel sick of acting. I feel sick of normal nice people, lot of them would kill us for keeping their world in peace. Maybe not doing the dirty job, but they will buy the rope.

Well at least you are a good person. Thank you again, don't worry about me, I will be back here. You helped me tonight, I think all those dark things are less dangerous in the forum.

See you, thank you!

 

[ForeverFighting]

Winston, to "confess" implies that you had any decision in being abused. It wasn’t your fault. Nobody chooses this life or what was done to us. You deserve our time and empathy. We all do. When I tell people that I have Complex PTSD, that is a part of my life. If my leg had been blown off, I would say, this is my leg, and (like one guy here said) I would be OK saying I have a robo leg because of it. That’s not "confessing". It would just be the truth about me and my past. And here it is--the robo leg, what I have to work with now.

I don’t share everything with my wife, simply because she doesn’t need to know every detail of the train wreck to understand that there was a train wreck and that I was hurt. However, she knows that my uncle abused me, my dad was violent, and "Jane" (not real name, therapist suggested I stop calling her "mom" because that implies she can be one) is delusional and incapable of love. Every time my wife responds with compassion, it actually strengthens our relationship.

And if I had children, I would sure tell them that their dad has PTSD because "grandpa" was mean and abusive. It would give them the words to describe their future world as reality instead of this crazy secret illusion that was forced upon us. Secrets are the curse that shadows us for years. Reality is the cure, even though it is a long, painful process.

Take care, Winston. It really does get better, even though it can take years of work. We’re here for you.

Michael

 

[Winston]

Again, thank you ForeverFighting.
You fight for the other as well, it's reassuring knowing people of your kind exists.

You are right concerning the word confess, it was a terrible choice of word. You don't confess a broken leg.

When I wrote "not to deserve time and empathy", it was also a bad choice in wording. I don't think to be worse than average, I do think to be dead in a near future. I don't think time and empathy can delay this. It was more the idea of wasting energy on a lost cause.
I do however appreciate time and empathy very much. Even if this end soon, I don't deserve less than somebody else to have contact with humans.

Once again, you are right about the train wreck metaphor. I am scared to talk to my wife, but I think she might suspect some stuff already. Delaying this talk might hurt her, so avoiding talking to preserve her is delusional.

I am not sure yet concerning children, but you have a very strong point when talking about "crazy secret illusion".

Thank you very much for this

 

[KMCINVA]

Winston

We are here to help each other. If I told you how many people were strangers to me and stood by me you would understand. I was basically abandoned by my family, they saw no truth in abuse, they saw not truth in their torment and words and actions that retraumatized me. Doctors and therapists did, but I bought into the view of the family because I thought I needed their love and acceptance. I heard CSA is nothing, it is a lie, it is inconsequential. It was not until these strangers stood by me, accepted me and did not judge. For they are far more worldly, educated in life and humanity than those that nearly killed me. A stranger can be more than family, family can be judgmental and fearful to face the truth, the realities of their own upbringing and the their actions and words. So no apologizes, these strangers became my family, they rescued, they gave me life and brought me to where I am today. I may not be alive today if it was not for them, my family was sending me down a path of death, self inflicted death so they could hide from the truth and say look at him. Never underestimate the power of the stranger on your life.

Never think of me or anyone here as a stranger, we have lived what you have lived, we have struggled, we have fought for the next day. I am forever grateful for those strangers. I am here and believe in you. I see much of myself in your words and life. Please remember we all suffered and want each and everyone of us to heal.

I was in your place and if not for strangers I would not have found the love, intimacy of one special woman, and people who just know how to be people. I am not a stranger, I share a common bond with you, and yes I know it is one none of us wish to be part of but we are. We cannot change the past, only today and the future.

Kevin

 

[Winston]

Dear Kevin,

Just a precision about my use of the word stranger : I believe that true charity (in the general sense of helping without expecting something back) can only occurs between two strangers.

When I write that you are helping a stranger, it represents a truly moral action for me.

On a more emotional part, I discovered this forum quite recently and I found a level of humanity, intelligence, desire to help, way higher than everywhere else (real or online).
I feel safe to talk for the first time of my life.

I know that this place exist, where I will not be judged for what was done to me. I consider the possibility of happiness while I was some days ago, only considering the possibility of not dying too fast.

This place already helped me more than any therapist, I think I have much more to learn but I plan to stay around for quite long. It's the same feeling, I think, than when you say :

It was not until these strangers stood by me, accepted me and did not judge. For they are far more worldly, educated in life and humanity than those that nearly killed me. A stranger can be more than family, family can be judgmental and fearful to face the truth, the realities of their own upbringing and the their actions and words. So no apologizes, these strangers became my family, they rescued, they gave me life and brought me to where I am today

I do have one concern : that someone get my true identity and disclose for me. It would ask some work, but it is technically far from hard. On the other hand it would be a felony (at least in France), with nothing to win but jail.

I think I talked about it in another topic, but this place is magic. Emotions, which I used to always control, are stronger here. I felt lot of different emotions here, in a short time. Sadness and joy but no shame or rejection.

Dealing with so much hope is unusual, that is maybe why my mood shift so much between posts. It will get better, thank to this place.

Thank you Kevin for reminding me this.

 

[KMCINVA]

Winston

Take care of yourself. I too express emotions here that sometimes get lost in the verbal world. I also re-read some of my written words here, in a journal, in a blog I am working on and realize the pain and anger that is in my emotions came through. The happy emotions of having overcome many obstacles and hurdles can also be found in my written words. When I see the words of today compared to when I first came to begin the process of healing along with the extremely difficult times when I struggled to sleep and live I can see I have evolved into a person that no longer sees the abuse as controlling nor domineering in my life and can see the people who helped me along this journey as kind, loving and humane humans. It takes time and I wish there was a simple way to get from point A to point Z, but healing is not linear, at least for me it has not been.

Take care of yourself, keep checking in and let us know your thoughts. In time you will look back and see you too are evolving into a person who is taking back his life from CSA.

Kevin

 

[WG]

Winston (from Winston), Something I've learned is that our bodies don't store sleep - meaning there isn't a large bin or tank it goes into like gasoline for the car and runs for a number of days. We aren't meant to operate or live like that.
As for the pain of the past - one way or another it will need to be talked about. One of the safest places would be with your psychiatrist (in here we sometimes use the letter 'T' meaning Therapist). My T is one of the safest people I know to say anything to. I've said and discussed some awful horror stories with him - and we work on it and discuss it. As I talk more about it with someone safe, I begin to see that I'm changing for the better. It isn't this dark evil swirling around inside me any longer. Yes, it still shows up, however I've learned some good coping skills and have become less afraid of when it does show up.So when it does come to mind - normally at the worst possible moment - I can 'speak to it' and say what I need to say (in my mind) and move through it. There are times it doesn't move on and I need to process it more. It's just how this all works.
One of the ways I learned to become myself and get comfortable with just being me was that my T and I began to address the Younger Me. He'd been waiting to be nurtured and loved and allowed to be a little boy for so many years. I know it sounds really strange to others, but we in here understand this. Our younger self needs to be spoken to and getting to know him and incorporate him into me has been so freeing so maturing for me. I'm still getting to know him - after all, he's who I was and I'm him now.
So from Winston to Winston (pretty cool name we have isn't it? I've become OK with it and no, don't call me 'Winny" I was teased mercilessly for years about being a fat yellow bear - none of which describe me) - get to know your 'little Winston' - he's been waiting a long time. All the things you have described in here are the symptoms of what was done to you. The root of it all will begin to surface as you talk with your psy - get the help you deserve. There's no right or wrong way to do that - when you're with him just start talking, it will begin to come out as you become accustomed to saying it out loud. Getting the help will take you down the road of recovery - and we'll walk that road with you because it's where we are, too. Heal well, Winston in Seattle

 

[Winston]

Thank you for your answer Winston from outer sea. To be honest my first name is not Winston, I use this pseudo as a tribute to Winston Smith.
Its a nice first name. It sounds like England, a cigar and a comfortable set of chairs where people enjoy Wiskey, a good book or a chess game.

Anyway, you are right and I think more and more about the possibility to have an happy life. It might sound something strange to say, but I had been 100% sure that something terrible will happen to me in near future. Taking drugs or mixing alcohol and benzo was not really dangerous if I was doomed.

The odds of a terrible thing happening to me might be above average but remains low. I can talk to a therapist and stay general at the beginning, "I was abused when I was a child" is not that hard to say.
His job being to help me healing, he would be a bad therapist to ask specific things in a crude way. Even then, other therapist exists, so this help is accessible.

So I can live and receive some support, it's a possible path. The other path is waiting for the drugs to kill me, and being deeply depressed most of the time. And I and only I get to choose the path.

I will go for the first path, I do actually want to live.

At this point, I am less miserable than the guy that nearly killed me. He probably know what he did, even with alcohol and Ambien. He is clearly on the road to death. I must admit I am not always nice when he talk about killing himself, but he talk about this since at least five year. My sister told me once that it would have been better for everyone if he did it. I don't know if wishing for your father death can help, but I do not blame her.

I never discussed directly with her about abuse. I talked to my mother who refused to listen and did not understood why I would say that. He is not perfect but he his not a monster. She suggested some time in a mental health institute to help me. This was nice from her. Her saying that I would not be welcome to her place until I was cured was less nice.

The only person who believed me is gone now, it was my mother's mother. At no point she suggested I was lying, actually she briefly talked about daddy raping her daughter once in a while.

The worst was a call from my mother's sister, that was not understanding why I lied on something that serious. More specifically, given the fact that I was lying, she assumed that I had some benefit, but my dad did not deserved this.

I did not disclose to my father parents, neither to his two sister. But the older sister explained me that he went to far by trying to finger her. The younger one talked once about my grand father nude and in erect, running in the house during a maniac episode.

The people that accused me of lying are more miserable than me. They might not know it, but I am almost sure they knew something was not good, and looked away.

No reason for hating any of them, or trying to prove their denial and accusation could have killed me. At some point they know it. They had a choice as well.

 

[WG]

Very true - as you say, "they had a choice as well". I will say that you have chosen the right road - healing. Drugs and alcohol will do nothing but make everything worse. And when you return to the real world, the problems are still there - or have become far worse.
I will tell you this : stay with your therapist. Their work is to help us, and if you have one as good as mine, you will learn to be able to actually speak about it out loud, beyond "I was abused" but to name each part of it - I asked my T to help me to do just that. It's taken a very long time, but every moment is worth it all. Never give up. Never go back to what didn't work before - drugs, not talking, pretending and on and on. Keep moving forward. You're doing great right now- keep going !

 

[Winston]

I don't have a regular therapist for the moment. I was used to look for the first psychiatrist available to get my anti-depressors. This is more expensive but allowed me to make almost no connection with the doctor.

For sure it can not work this way, I have to pick one.

I am not sure about the situation in US. In France psychiatrist are medical doctor that can make prescription, they are used to talk but I think they heal with drugs.
Therapist are specialized in healing through talk, art or various other way, but they are not able to prescribe drugs.

Do you think I would benefit more from a psychiatrist or a therapist? Assuming the former is not just an expensive drug dealer.

When you started to look for a therapist, did you had some method? Like finding information on the net, or getting feedback from one of his patient.

I don't want to delay the first appointment, because I could change my mind for some stupid reason. At the same time I want someone good at his job.

Thanks again for advices, I am moving in the right direction at the moment. Even if I fail this time I will know that it's possible.

 

[ForeverFighting]

Winston, I agree with you completely on the difference between psychiatrists and therapists. I don't even bother talking to my psychiatrists. She is only there to figure out which meds might work for me.

When I called around for a therapist, I asked if there was anyone who specialized in PTSD. A lot of therapists specialize in families or depression or anxiety or coping in life, but PTSD is a whole different thing. PTSD is not just remembering or coping with the memories of abuse--it is reliving the abuse. I live in a place where there was no chance of finding a therapist who specializes in helping male victims of sexual abuse. I don't know that one exists within 500 miles of me. However, even a therapist who works with combat veterans is of way more help than a general therapist, because a lot of what we deal with is similar. I searched for therapy offices near me online, and then I called and asked if anyone there worked with PTSD. And having found someone who knows about PTSD, it turns out that she also works with several men who were sexually abused. I wish I had started many years with someone who knew about PTSD. I might have been in a different place now.

I hope your appointment goes well. It sounds like getting the right medication might help, too, although I always feel like a walking science experiment for the first few months while they try different things on me. I am finally on something that is really working for me, and my therapist says she thinks that might be why I am able to do the really hard work now in therapy.

I wish you the best. Take care of yourself.

Michael