Silence and Trust

Silence and Trust
T

Trish4850

There are two threads on the survivors forum that Ive been watching quite intently and they prompt this question to s/os: Did you worry about yourself, your family, your children, etc. when you found out that your s/o was a survivor? I think some of our answers may help the men to understand a little of it from the other side.

Before my b/f told me of the csa, I knew that he had been physically abused and that concerned me. You always hear about breaking the chain of abuse which leads you to believe that the abused will be an abuser. I thought long and hard about it over several weeks. I became more aware of his interaction with me, our friends and my family. Nothing in his behavior indicated that he would abuse or hurt another human being. My fears were unfounded and forgotten.

Several years into our relationship, he disclosed the csa. At that time, my daughter was about 15 years old. My thoughts again went back to everything Id read in the paper or seen on the news - the horror stories, the trials where the defense counsel would bring up mitigating circumstances, specifically that the defendant had been abused. I pride myself on accepting or not accepting people for how they act with me and mine, not whats in their past. So why was I worried? Because I just didnt know and because I had not only me, but my child to worry about. Her safety and well-being depended on me and if I made a wrong decision, the ramifications would be devastating.

I loved and still love my b/f very much so I decided to learn. I knew in my heart that the idea of harming a child was as repugnant to him as it is to me, but I still needed to calm my own irrational fears.. This site and several others taught me that much more often than not, an abused child becomes a hurt adult and that hurt adult would never inflict that same hurt on another.

Today, Im ashamed of my earlier feelings, but in my heart, I know they werent malicious in any way and I believe that my concerns as a person uneducated and ignorant of csa were to be expected. Again, Im ashamed of that now, but I just didnt know any better.

I felt so much pain because of the pain my b/f was in. I believed him, I hurt for him, I was angry for him, but when the dust settled, I was still stupid and I had to make that stupidity go away before I could be anything good for him or me.

Men, as if you dont have enough to deal with, Im afraid that you also have to deal with an ignorant population, of which the person/people you choose to disclose to may be card carrying members. Thats not to say we intend to stay that way, but when faced with a foreign fact, it takes time for the depth of that fact to sink in, be absorbed and dealt with.

ROCK ON........Trish
 
After my boyfriend disclosed, my biggest fear was that he would kill himself. I was also afraid that his acting out and general lack of caring would get out of control to the point that it really affected our lives-- that he would get fired, or arrested, something like that.

At no point was I concerned about him abusing our children.
 
I was only scared for half second that my b/f would kill himself, he is the one that put that to rest, unprompted. Fired or arrested, no - he was messing around with consenting adults, albeit ones who were just as damaged in one way or another as he was. His acting out though to mess up our life, well as you know that's been my reality.

I wish I hadn't though the things I did, but my ignorance facilitated that. Its only knowledge that made it go away. My b/f himself believes the "factual" statistics. I asked him years ago if he would ever want children. His immediate answer was no, which was relief to me since I considered myself done with that phase of my life. Only later did I find out why. Despite everything that he is today and for as much as he puts children on a pedestal, he is still too scared to even think about raising his own. I've learned the truths, but he has not. I suspect that his 1st wife put many of those fears in his head. Regardless, he believes it.

ROCK ON........Trish
 
Trish,

Today, Im ashamed of my earlier feelings, but in my heart, I know they werent malicious in any way and I believe that my concerns as a person uneducated and ignorant of csa were to be expected. Again, Im ashamed of that now, but I just didnt know any better.
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There was never anything shameful in you not knowing enough about CSA to judge the risks. Even in the police and judiciary the level of ignorance is still pretty shocking.

What you did was the right thing. You got your info straight before you acted. Well done!

Much love,
Larry
 
Trish, I am not trying to be hard on you with what I am about to say. It is hard for people to admit how their actions and thoughts were misguided in the past, and how their ignorance had the potential to hurt others. I think your post is brave. And yes, it's a sad fact that some people are going to allow their prejudices to affect the way they respond to men who disclose.

But I feel that there is a part of this discussion that is missing from your post, that I'd like to add.

I wish people would take the same active stance to discourage this kind of sexist attitude as they do to discourage other forms of prejudice.

I can't endorse just chalking it up to ignorance and saying that good people do it too, so survivors should have to deal with it. Should we say that to homosexuals, or racial minorities? Should we say that to women who are discriminated against in their workplace-- oh, well those guys in the office mean well, but they've just never had a female boss before, and it's going to take them a while to start respecting you?

It is DANGEROUS to say that ignorance and bigotry "should be expected" and NOT say at the same time, that it's still wrong, that it's not universal, and that those of us who know better have a responsibility to speak up about it.
 
Sar

Oh! for such wisdom. There are so few people in life who think like you do. I think any sophisticated thought process' of my own have atrophied.


Trish

I also think that is a brave post, well done and like Larry says, you got appraised before you acted. I can't help wondering that something in your situation provoked you to question your bfriend?? From your posts you seem a very non jundgemental person, I've seen some posts of yours and thought wow, I wish I was that understanding. I'm no angel but it never crossed my mind that my partner was / could be an abuser, maybe there was just nothing there to make me think twice. Is doubting a survivor a positive thing a person does rather than a passive state of understanding that is corrected by information? I think so but would debate where those doubts originated. Media? Personal situation? Upbringing? I mean this in a general sense not directed at yourself.

I guess I'm thinking out loud.. I remain of the opinion that you did absolutly the best thing in acknowledging you need to understand and getting more info.

I've been away and not caught up with posts yet. Hope you are doing well.
Love

Tracy
 
I never worried about my survivor abusing children or anyone...until he started abusing me. First it was very covert verbal abuse, then emotional abuse, then physical intimidation, the sexual abuse and violent emotional abuse.
In the time right before the physical abuse started I heard him use a tone with a 6 year ols girl that made my hairs stand up on the back of my neck...I had recognized it form my abusive father...
Then when we were planning a family he threatened to take the children away from me to "protect them" if he thought I was not raising them right. I could not pin him to a specific- did that mean beating them or sending them to sailing camp instead of computer camp.

I would never think he would SA a child- no way- I think he would not PA a child either...because he is horrified by those things- but until he gets help, he will surely amotionally abuse a child, he can not help himself - he has PTSD and borderline personality disorder from his own abuse.

I NEVER would have thought this was possible until he showed me that it was through his actions.
 
SAR,

You're 100% right in that attitudes have to change and those who do know better have an obligation to try to change them..

Part of the ongoing problem, for survivors and partners is: how often does the subject come up. I for one can't very well bring up the subject of male csa because then it begets the question, how or why do I know about it? My b/f has not given me the right to tell his story.

When there is a story in the paper or on the news, which sadly there almost always is, I've actually taken the discussion beyond what the child is dealing with now and projecting what he/she will have to deal with as an adult. I can get pretty passionate in such discussions, but I need to watch myself for the reasons I stated above. Here's the thing, as I see it anyway. While everyone I know is horrified by what happens to the child and they will agree that the child will have difficulties when he/she grows up because of that trauma, unless you know an adult who has/is suffering, it's an abstract concept. This is true even for women who were abused as children, although to a lesser degree.

The general attitudes Ive observed are: First, oh gosh thats horrible, Second, if you need a hand, Ill help you out or if you need to talk, Ill be there and then: for crying out loud why cant he/she just get past this, it was so long ago? This could be true of anyone, unless that anyone happens to have a vested interest in the survivor and cares enough to truly educate themselves.

The media seems to finally be getting on the bandwagon and recognizing that csa, whether perpetrated against a boy or a girl is vile and must be punished. Some people are starting to see that this is true and if I get the opportunity, I will encourage them. But the ignorance does exist and years and years and years worth of conditioning has planted it very firmly in our collective psyches. I believe there are more people out there like me who didnt know any better and had no one to tell them any different. Until my own world was rocked, I went through life, fat, dumb and happily oblivious

I dont have a clue how to change my own oil I the car because I never had a reason to learn, someone else took care of it. Thats how many things are in this world, including knowledge of the effects of csa. If someone doesnt have a reason to know about it, then they probably dont think about it much and if they do, its with the skewed information that has been common knowledge for too long a time.


I will do my best to change the attitudes and beliefs of people around me, which is all I can do for the moment.

ROCK ON...........Trish
 
Tracy,

I think the fact that I had a teenage daughter when my b/f and met and when he disclosed is what instigated my concern. There was never anything from him to raise a warning flag, just my own imagination. Again, you hear stories about mom's b/f hurting mom's kids, etc., etc., etc. It was never a reality, just an irrational fear brought about by dumb. :rolleyes:

ROCK ON.......Trish
 
Trish,

Thanks for pointing me to this thread. It brings to mind a discussion I have had with my T in various forms since my first "public" disclosure.

How much responsibility do we (survivors, partners, anyone with a real understanding) have to educate people? In the face of so much misunderstanding, when our voices are drowned out by sensationalized presentations of skewed logic (the "vampire theory"), do we owe ourselves and our relationships more than we owe "society?" "Society" is like "normal," a convenient mathematical fiction. In the real world, real people make decisions and act on them, even if, like the song says, "If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Society doesn't do anything. People do.

You chose to get facts and find understanding. One of my teachers used to bemoan the fact that so many hide from thinking and prefer to be entertained. There's a lot of truth in that. It seems that more people would like to "be entertained" than would care to learn about the true nature of CSA and its effects. Is our energy put to better use in our personal lives? Or is that like the civil rights demonstrator who "believes" but fails to act?

I had more of a point when I started on this, but it's late and I'm rambling. Thank you, though, for sending me here.

Thanks,

Joe
 
outis said:
How much responsibility do we (survivors, partners, anyone with a real understanding) have to educate people? In the face of so much misunderstanding, when our voices are drowned out by sensationalized presentations of skewed logic
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i think the fact so many survivors think that they are alone belies the fact that no, they are not only NOT alone, they are probably more in the majority than they even realize!

consider the prevalence of csa; (some put the stats for women as high as 50% in some countries, 30% for boys and some even say it's the same for boys as girls)

consider the consistency of standard lies told by the perps to their victims,
consider the fact csa is perpetuated throughout society without regard to economic status, race, class, ethnicity, and, most recently as we've learned, the perpetrators may just as likely be female as male;

now, consider this - such a high number of people have been effected by csa, how many at any one time are actually either:

in denial of it having happened in their own lives;
in recovery,
have dealt with it and consider it part of their past,
or
know someone or more than one who is one of the above??

is it any wonder society doesn't seem to want to talk about csa and how it effects adults?

that is, survivors and partners who become engaged in discussion about csa maybe should realize you (we?) are actually at the forefront of where society is headed - towards a more open and honest reality about life in general -

an interesting discussion was made in the book "Beyond Betrayal" when the author raised the point that it does no good to "fix" victims of csa only to unleash them back into a world where what caused their problem in the first place still exists....that part of one's healing must include changing society in a way that helps other children to be safe...that this must include breaking the silence about csa in general.

too many parents i know won't let their little ones out of their sight, not to go to school, not to ride the bus, go to a friend's house, they are petrified now something will happen and that fear fuels mistrust in those children who will only grow up thinking just around the corner is someone waiting to hurt them.

is this truly the world we want for our children?

to think that anyone would hold back information about csa, hold back your opinions about how it effects adults, for fear of someone questioning WHY you know about it - isn't that just perpetuating the "keep the secret" aspect which is part of what is so damn damaging?

as one who recovered from extreme, and i mean EXTREME physical abuse as both a child, teenager and adult, i do understand the shame of not wanting people to know - of how deep that fear can strike inside and hold onto you like a vice - that you must not tell anyone or your life will be over...

i say, talk about it first and don't worry about what people will think. if they ask what seems like 'ignorant' questions - they are doing so because they see you as knowing something and they want you to explain it to them - if they make ignorant statements - it's based on lack of correct information - will you just let them continue running around in the dark bumping up against the wall or will you take the time to turn the light on??

information is everywhere these days - chances are if someone seems to think you know an extraordinary amount of detail about csa and even ask - you can always say - hey, i found it on the internet :whistle:

all the best,
indy
 
Trish:

I think you ask an interesting question about whether we had concerns about the survivors in our lives with children. For me, the answer is unequivocally NO. I never thought my survivor friend capable or considered he would do harm. It never crossed my mind. He is very protective and nurturing to the nieces and nephews he has. And to all children I have observed him encounter. Kids love him. Maybe it's because he's just a big kid too.:-)

But then later you made a point that sheds light on this in relation to your survivor that I must thank you for:
Despite everything that he is today and for as much as he puts children on a pedestal, he is still too scared to even think about raising his own.

My friend has expressed wanting children of his own, but I believe that he too "is still too scared to even think about raising his own."
 
I've had waking nightmares when I see kids and realize how fragile they are. I questioned whether "noticing their fragility" was a precursor to taking advantage of it. The fact is that when I notice how vulnerable a child is, I feel protective. It becomes my responsibility to ensure that child's safety. If I see a kid walking away from a distracted adult in a store, I keep an eye on the kid and call the adult to them. I step in front of a toddler who's wandering toward a street to block their way.

I've met a lot of CSA survivors in the last few years, and I get the impression that the desire to protect children from any kind of harm is in all of us. Yes, there are some perps who were abused, but in the people I've met, people who are actively trying to heal, protecting children is an imperative we cannot ignore. It's so deeply ingrained in us that it's like breathing.

Thanks,

Joe
 
... that i was so certain that k would never harm a child is one of the reasons we stayed married even when we had our own problems ...

... like many survivors, protecting my own children from what happened to me was a priority ... to me, it was THE most important thing i could do for them ... i had a daughter from a previous marriage when i met k and it was SO important that i could trust him to never hurt her ...

... there were many things kept him from being the best father he could be, all connected directly or indirectly to his abuse, but he was still a good father and i always knew for certain that he would never hurt anyone, especially a child ... not in a sexually or physically abusive way ...

selene
 
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