Seeking advice/ a friend of a survivor.

[Judith]

Hi

Would like advice from male survivors too. need from male survivors.

Kevin I know you gave me valuable advice. among others.

For those of you who dont know me and I have been on here before seeking feedback about my friend who is a male sexual abuse survivor by a woman who use mother to get to him.(anything you can shed light on that will help)
Also for those of you who know me I am sorry I havent been on here but I am reading the forum.

I need to update you before i ask for advice on what i am seeking.

I ask while back about this male friend call Greg about whether or not to stay in touch with him. Due to circumstances beyond both our control.
He is married and has a step daughter by his current and only wife.
I am still in contact with him as of this writing. We were text on his wife phone , she encourage the interaction until two weeks ago.
He had yet to get his own phone. Due to a misunderstanding a year ago. He was becoming comfortable with me again and how I knew he did that was that he text me from a work dinner two weeks ago. I knew that but needed him to confirm that.

HE is starting second year of recovery wtih professional counseling.
His wife is a sexual victim too. not abuse though

I need to inform some things before I ask.

He likes that I can relate to him due to sexual abuse. HE wants to stay in touch with me due to my understanding where he is coming from. He has no one else to relate to like me. He says. I believe him when no one else cared.
His background is that his mother rejected him at nine years old, his father left when he was a year old. He was in foster care.
He wanted mother/ son, us to be mother and son, year ago but that brought up some things that needed healing. Actually it was not that perse , IT was a subject under the heading of that.

He ended up have to start counseling a year ago due to use unhealthy coping behaviors to help control his emotional pain.
HIs wife not being a sexual abuse victim was and is scared that he would repeat the behavior if we were mother son again. now.

IN result of year in counseling he is able to set a boundary now with me when he couldnt do that before. He is better emotionally to experience me being mom to him. Real or not he needs to do it to heal. TThey call it reparenting now and children like him benefit from it. His wife is -
His wife is scared that he will have a repeat of a year ago. She is let her fear control what he needs to do to heal regardless if it is mother and son. She is let her fear of not wanting him to have what he wants or needs to heal but keeping him stuck. She needs counseling too. But due to a stuttering thing she wont seek it perse. Although this latest incident involve what he failed to ... do and so she went in to talk to him etc.

HIs wife and I were friends as of a month ago. She found out by seeing him have a mothers card for me in his sack and felt betrayed by me becuase he and I knew she didnt what that to happen. Mother and son.

I have seen him do two things that is hindering his recovery. He thinks highly of me and so.
His wife disconnected from me because -she says -He and I betrayed her on doing mother son.

I offered it to him becuase he wanted to give me something for helping him. Offered him mother son.

He was scared that she wouldnt like it but that i agree that we would wait six months but she found out by looking in his backpack for stamps. She disconnected from me. Forgive me if i repeat.

His local therapist said that his wife gave me and him alot of trust but that he and I took advantage of the situation to do mother and son. I know I did nothing wrong and I can explain why i say that on offering him mother son. And I know why it was not about advantage. I see things from a counseling viewpoint or analytical viewpoint. I dont take sides and I see this as in what needs to happen.

HIs wife told him and me we were not to talk to one another.

He and I met on this message board simiilar to this one but it is not for abuse survivors. I have found him being the fourth one abuse male survivor on that site.
In the beginning a year ago I helps him with sexual stuff not realize his wife had sexual issues. She admit to me months ago she was a victim of assault. in her teens

He said he doesnt want to lose me etc. She has no clue we talk on this site. through the PM like this one has.

This site has other fathers who have wives/mothers who are sexual abuse victim and i help the fathers with understand women. Sometimes it is hard to help a woman understand a man.

I will not come between a couple -never since I come from abuse myself and understand how that happens. . And So on. She felt like I was involve me in the marriage due to not be honest with her about her husband wanted he and I to be mother and son. Adopted in name only.
HE was going to send me a mothers day card. He wanted that so bad.

I can be friends and mentor share experiences and help others to heal where they need. Dont how to explain the word -help.

He needs to work on stand up for himself and not appear weak to others etc.

HIs wife only text on iphone and so i didnt have phone for tone of voice where he will do that.
I can let people get close to me but text doesnt allow you to be able to learn and relate very well.
Also his wife was scared to be open with me through text anyway and has suffered rejection that I think that she really struggle to relate to me.
Anyway I shared about me and she was helping me and Inform her husband that I was resting a day in april- when He and I had schedule to talk on wed every week. We just started he and I reconnecting and reaquainted because he was in a different place and I was relearning his emotional responses and need him to initiate. He got up set and told her not to inform him about me. He had not done that before with her. But that he had reacted similar to her before year ago. after talk to me. But this time was better and needed to happen. IT was not repeat what she was afraid would happen.

He reacted by protect me mom and she didnt know that it was about him seeing me as mom at that time.
He did better than he did a year ago in responding. His responses even happen without being mother and son.

He wanted to get to know me more and discuss things but I am concern about how he will handle responses even when we are not mother son because he is still working on how to control his emotions. now in talk by PM it is called on this site from him talk to me from work. He would like to continue the contact.

I need to inform that the two other fathers from this site that has wives who are sexual abuse victims that I help to get them back into the grove of physical contact like they both needed. One of them found valueable help in me and would not say no to the wife. The wife didnt like - "A" didnt like he was talk to me but he did anyway. A's wife is ok with it now but she wont talk to me directly.

MY point with that is the women are insecure and dont understand why the father wants to talk to me. IT is due to the trauma of them not have a father teach them how to relate to men and the father teach teh daughter about how the father and mother relate to one another in a marital relationship.
He only talks to me the father from these sites to help them with teh wife who is a sexual abuse victim.

Greg wife is insecure and so on too. She met with his counselor about what he did with me and her. They have assignments to do to get back on track. He says that he should nt have done what they didnt want. for reasons whY cant remember waht he said. I know deep down he still would like to have it. I understand that becuase I do to want that due to my own father being a jerk.

I fear he is not standing up for what he needs. He is seeing his wife's relative coworker for therapy and that is not always good. I know he needs to work on not let his wife fear keep him from doing what he needs to heal. THe purpose of the contact he wanting to talk to me, is to learn about me and discuss things.
I can see that he has obviously control issues due to abuse that he needs to work on in resolve not only in relationship but...

Greg wife now doesnt know that we are talk through this site

His goal is to have his wife and I reconnect and She said that i meant alot to her but after she found out what happen she disconnected from me -he and I did. He more so than me. I wanted it mother son but and he did too but ... His goal is to fix the damage to his marriage that the mother son thing created teh second time. and have her and I reconnect ---

What do I do. I dont want hurt him and say we cant talk due to what his wife said. He is not sharing much with me what the assignments are.that his wife and he need to do. As far as I am concern two victims married and the marriage is not healthy to begin with. I inform him after what she did that she needed counseling.

.
My fear and concern is we have had minor things that come up that is could be a misunderstanding. which would lead to conflict. That sort of happening before. Conflict may not be the right word but he doesnt have very good control over his emotons and I know why he has some healing to do with emotions from teh abuse as well as he needs healing in the child developmental dept. He when he reacted defend me mom from his wife-he should have got that as a child but that happen when he was in contact with me.
He is better than a year ago about controlling his emotions but my concern is he reacting or have issue with something I said and his wife wondering who he is talk to.

He has things like that he needs to work through but his wife wont let him.
HE is obviously dealing with co dependent stuff.

I can handle this but I am concern in how he would respond at home. He only talks to me through the message board from work so his wife doesnt know anythign about the board.

What would you do in my situation? Continue to talk to him privately through this message board-it is one that people go to seek help on like support group.

I dont want to hurt him

cAn you share your experiences in how you would handle a similar situation.?
My fear is that his wife

I leave it up to the father like Greg to be the one to deal with wanting to talk to me or not. and ...

HE wasnt able to stand up for himself with his wife to say that he wanted mother son and that he could handle it now. I know he could

One of my other questions is why would mother /son, us doing it, be a issue for him to do when his wife is scared that he would have a reaction taht not good when he didnt when we talk This time?

Why is he afraid to stand up to his own wife?

I realize the abuse has something to do with it.

What would you do in my situation when he wants to talk to me and i dont want to hurt him and let him talk to me?

His wife could make it difficult for me.I havent had a chance to talk to him yet about my concern but I am waiting on a response to something related to this from him -next week. He contacts me from work. not home.

It was said that he self sabotage the mother son thing by letting his wife find the mother son card that he was getting ready to send me.
I think he did to- but he says no -do you think he did because of his wife have issue with it and he was scared to inform her? Why would he?

What would you do in my situation?

A year ago his wife made him give up a female friend. I dotn think he remembers who I am talk about but that person was not really healthy to be in his life because she had no good boundaries and he is working on them.
I have good boundaries but I dont want to hurt him but want him to have what he -you all know it is hard to have friends when your abuse victim and any you gain that are good are hard to come by. I am one. I have boundaries.

I can elaborate on why I am "better" tahn his other but he said he didnt have to give her up either. His wife doesnt want him talk to me but what could I do to hurt him etc?

I see him as brother or father in name only.


I feel like I am forgetting something

Judith

 

[Mishka95673]

Hello Judith,

Sorry for the delay in my response; I needed some time to carefully think through my response.

I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in. It must be hard.

My best suggestion is to listen carefully to his therapist, and your own as well if you have one. You seem to have really good intentions. Regardless, you seem to be more involved in their marriage than what might be healthy for any of you. I would not tolerate my man sneaking around my back with another woman, keeping interactions with her secret from me so as to not stir up trouble. Having been in a triangle like yours, and having kicked my man to the curb as a result, let me suggest one possible explanation for what is going on. He made need his ego stroked, or he may need to feel emotions...regardless, he could be telling you all sorts of lies just like my man told his female friend. She was actually my friend first but their running around like they did, whipping each other up emotionally, caused tremendous damage to the relationship - I kicked his butt to the curb. We are back together and he knows there is no place for her in our lives ever again...as well intentioned as she was, she caused major damage neither of us want to see again.

So my best advice is to not believe what he is telling you (especially about her and the relationship) and to follow the advice of the therapists involved.

I wish you luck

 

[Bluedogone]

Hi Judith,

I'm really sorry you're in such a complex situation that causes such tension and quandary. It must be pretty frustrating not to know what to do.

Since you asked for advise from male survivors too, I'm going to jump in with both feet. I can only relay personal experience, and perhaps it will be meaningful enough to shed some light on your situation. Keep in mind, while I have heard of a biological mother/son relationship and an adopted child mother/son relationship, I must admit I am not at all familiar with the relationship you describe. It seems it would be rather explosive for the marriage under the most ideal circumstances, and adding in the fact of sexual abuse sustained by both parties can only harm a marriage.

I have been married (this second time) for 45 years.
Sexual abuse for me was during the ages of approximately 10-15. I married for the first time long before I connected the dots that childhood sexual abuse at 10-15 could possibly have had any bearing on anything I did later in life. How WRONG that was.

My own biological mother was almost like a third person in that first marriage. It was doomed from day one. And the relationship with my mother was just a simple plain everyday mother/son relationship, nothing out of the ordinary. A mother who loved her son and wanted only the best for him, and a son who, (other than sexual abuse at the hands of people other than a mother), had a reasonably normal childhood. This marriage was completely torpedoed with no hope of saving it. Although divorce took a year or so, the marriage lasted a couple of weeks, at best. Certainly not 100%, but mostly the reason it failed so miserably was because of that damn mother/son relationship that I thought was so important to make the marriage meaningful.

It's hard to remove yourself from a person's life, when it's someone you care for.
This is probably what you really don't want to hear, but take it for what it's worth.

My thoughts and best wishes are with you in this most difficult situation.


CJ

 

[Mishka95673]

CJ,
Thank you. You worded it much more softly than I could with the time I had to type. Judith, it is a very sad situation and we wish you peace and happiness

 

[Judith]

Mishka95673 -bluedogone see below this and or next email? below

First off help me to understand why you say don't listen to him?

Secondly he is wanting to help me and his wife become friends again. He is limited his contact with me and working on his marriage
Work to on the changes that led to his wanting mother son and not want to do what his wife wanted.
Secondly she is not want him to do it out of fear because she is afraid he will repeat what he did before.

3. In the mean time I still don't understand why his wife wont let him do it.
And he is not doing mother son because his wife does not want him to. What I said still stands true and still seeking response on what I said.

Judith

 

[Judith]

Bluedogone and other responses are welcome please. Even respond to this one too others...

Thank you

YOur right I am in a quandary.

Oh by the way I forgot she talks to me on text and has a stuttering problem and value me highly and due to being rejected her self she thought highly of me. Sorry about leave that out.
We do not live in the same state. He and her live in on the east coast.

So how did you heal bluedogone without experience a mother son relationship with someone vs didn't you still have to work on relationship issues and didn't that still affect you and your wife due to your mother not doing her job? How did you work through that and was a woman in your life or was it a therapist or both? that help you to heal that relationship thing that your mother created in result of abuse you suffered from whoever hands?
Do you think that there is any hope for me to reconnect to her by contact her and ? he wants us to be friends again not just for her sake and mine but I am sure his as well. I would like to be friends with both. It hurt that she disconnected. She really doesn't understand his trauma. She initially said that I help him where she couldn't but that doesn't count now. So question is

???? Did a woman help you a nonsexual nonromantic friend help you more who understand where you were coming from than your own wife who wasn't? etc?

She feels that since he and I didn't/ wasn't honest with her about it when she said no-doing mother son -the reason I say in name only is because we adopted each other but ...its not legal and it was to not only help but.

Judith

 

[Mishka95673]

Judith, the best people to help you navigate through your quandary are therapists. Therapists can help him identify why he feels the need to adopt you as a mother figure, knowing that such a relationship complicates and puts at risk his marriage. If I understood your note, his therapist does not support your relationship.

Your therapist is the best person to talk with regarding your desire to play the role of his mother and to ascertain whether it is a healthy choice for you to allow or place yourself in their relationship and if not, what needs of your own have not been met in your life to motivate you to interact with another woman's husband behind her back. It would be completely different to me if the wife welcomed you but she doesn't and instead of distancing yourself from the situation so you can see things objectively, you seem caught up in your own turmoil to want to spend time with someone else's husband, regardless of the role. You say he needs to get firmer with his wife, to stand up for you and your relationship with him. I offer another perspective - if he cannot respect the wishes of his wife when as you said his relationship with you has caused trouble in the past, he needs to accept that he may be throwing away his marriage to be with "pseudo mommy" and then you would need to accept that due to reasons you should work with your own therapist to discover, you were ok with betraying the sisterhood and serving as the "other woman" with whom this man cheated on his wife. It doesn't matter that it was mommy-child. It doesn't matter that you want it. It doesn't matter that he wanted it. What matters is that you two are betraying his wife and interfering with the marriage. What matters is that his own therapist pointed this out to you two. What matters is that he has distanced himself from you and shut you out of the marriage because he is trying to save his marriage. What matters is the reason why he isn't sharing the exercises with you - that information is not your right to know. And most of all, what matters Judith is that the relationship you describe is very unhealthy...down right toxic to all of you. And because you and he are embroiled with whatever this need is for him to play a child and for you to play mom, neither of you would easily be able to see when you are trying to justify an unhealthy relationship...that is why you both need to work with your therapists to put yourselves on healthier footing.

Look, I am not saying women can't be friends with married men. I have male friends who are married. One of those friends doesn't understand women well so he made the mistake of excusing himself from date night with her in order to accept my call. As soon as I learned what he did, I told him he needed to go back into the room, sit next to her, and tell me "I'm sorry but I am having date night with my wife and cannot speak with you at this time. I will call you tomorrow." And it was a good thing because by talking to me instead of staying with her, he was showing a prioritiation which had absolutely nothing to do with insecurity. The wife comes first, last, and always. I am not a priority. You are not a priority.

Now in the past, he had an indiscretion with another woman which hurt his wife's ability to trust him. He was very grateful to me for some help I gave him and clearly she was very uncomfortable with us spending alone time together. I understand this and created a rule that we do not go to lunch together unless his wife agrees to come to, or declines and encourages him to go alone. She is ALWAYS invited and we NEVER hide anything from her. We want her to trust us and the only way to earn trust from anyone is to behave in a trustworthy fashion. You and your friend sneaking around behind the wife's back doesn't show trustworthy behavior at all. It also shows a lack of consideration for her, his first priority. She is your sister, Judith...as am I. We're are women, not little girls sneaking around with people. If it is difficult to honor your sister, as it clearly is, your own therapist can help you identify the nature of the difficulty.

One more example, Judith. I have another friend who was unfaithful to his wife, actually left her for another woman. The wife thought I was friends with the other woman and therefore endorsed the relationship. It created hard feelings with his wife towards me and I didn't understand for a long time. The friend and new girlfriend kept their relationship secret from me and when I found out, I stopped talking completely to the female. She was no longer a sister...she disrupted a marriage, leading to damage to a family.mlike your friend, there were even children involved. The husband returned to the wife and she took him back. She has no issues with our close friendship BECAUSE I act in a trustworthy fashion - I don't sneak around with her husband. I visit them in their home. I talk with her. I play with the children. And she knows I am her sister and would not disrespect her or harm her and the kids.

A long answer Judith but hopefully helpful. I am nervous you cannot see the mess you have walked into. I am nervous your feelings are getting in the way of you being able to see your situation more objectively. Sister, please talk with your therapist about the situation; he or she will be better able to guide you.

Be well and be safe

 

[Bluedogone]

It would be foolish of me to say I know a lot of the inner-feelings and thought process of women. But I do know that one of your statements is not practical and almost impossible to accomplish. It can only lead to disaster for a marriage.

[quote:Judith]I see him as brother or father in name only.[/quote]

Mother Teresa may have been able to have such a relationship, I don't know, but otherwise I think it highly unlikely this type relationship can continue with any positive outcome. It's true that two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead It's also true that when there are three people involved it will ALWAYS be two against one. And in your situation the wife is the one left out. Never a good situation.

I did not mean to further confuse the situation by inserting my relationship with my own mother. We continued to have a great mother/son relationship until her death. But if I had learned nothing from the first marriage then I would have had another divorce very promptly. The difference with my successful marriage is mother did not come first before my wife; mother did not sneak around with me with therapist appointments. When problems arose (and there were many) all three of us from time to time discussed them, NEVER clandestine just me and my mom. If you add in the element of a pretend mother son relationship then it can only make things worse.

If you really want to help this couple I think you should remove yourself entirely. If she would like to include you later, as part of a professional program of healing and recovery in which all three understand what each of you can offer, that may be helpful. As it now stands neither your friend nor his wife are being helped in any way.

CJ

 

[Judith]

Hi bluedogone and CJ.

First off he and I have already talk to out therapist and we have talk to our support groups etc. Also he will not continue mother son with me.

I am just seeking understand of stuff and helping me to understand things I don't understand. I seek feedback from you all because it helps to have other perspectives to understand where I may be missing it.

I want to reconnect to her outside of her husband and include. She welcome our contact as long as she knew about it
I come to groups like this after I Talk to my therapist and I already talk to not only my therapist but groups like this who understand abuse. My therapist has not been through abuse and so males who have will understand his side.
which helps me a lot.

Also bluedogone

You did help with sharing your own mother -the one comment you said that it help you to learn etc female male relationships without mother son that that help a lot. Confirm something for me. I seek to be affirm and confirm.

I like to seek all perspectives because of my lack of have a lot of perspectives. Please know the therapist on both sides know about this etc.
I am still asking mine about certain things related to this but because my dad was abuse and my father mentor help me with that. And to understand males perspective who heal help a lot.

Also I have no way of knowing if he will contact me again. I know his behavior from last year.

I may not hear from him at all or weeks on end.

I be surprised if I hear from him again at all.

Before and after last year. I was not so sure I wanted contact with him at all now then or now.

The goal is to reconnect to his wife not because of her husband but because she fill a friendship need I had by live in this apartment and so on. She had a need in me being a friend to her as a sister before he and I ever talk again.

Whether or not that changes your response my point is I just need other perspectives in addition to the therapists. And I am at point in my life I need support group if you will along with ..So this board is valuable to me in responses

I wanted to talk to them both and I know his wife felt other wise after the situation happen. I don't like to talk to one over the other.

Remember this is online and I don't see these people in person. [b]it is online like this board.

[/b]

Again it goes she gave me a thing of being a friend in a difficult life in an apartment where I am alone daily and I cant work anymore. She may so more than ...

FYI just remember when you work I am and others are home alone through no fault of their own. WE cant help but seek friendships in way we can. That is what the goal was to start with. Not expecting that something that wasn't so hard could be so hard.
I learn as I go and I never expected this. and this shows that how abuse ruins relationships for kids as kids and then have to learn as adults when adults and it is hard.

I wish I had gotten this education growing without what happen in this situation but again it goes back to the dilemma I mention and someone responded to and that is

Are you rude to a person who contacts you? Especially abuse victim.

To put it close to home is on this board. There women on this board who is seeking helps for their husbands who are not on this board talk to other men

There are victims of abuse males on this board talk to other victims and family who are females. Asking females for advice etc.

What I just said is the same as the other board where he and I started talk on?

So why are you all on this board without your spouse?

Does your spouse know about you being on this board?

See my confusion?

What I see on this board is the same as on the other board I mention.

Thank you for your responses experiences do help me even if you cant see it.

Judith

Judith

 

[Judith]

HI

adding to what I said above.

I am wanting to contact her but scared to. I have known severe rejection due to abuse. I am mixed emotions about being in contact with both. I said today that I would be glad he doesn't contact me. But when you have never had your father like you and no guy even in grade school like you and a guy does not just him -it is ...

NOt sure what else to say.

I was glad I was talk to both. I know it sounds like I want contact with him more than her but if you heard me tonight. You would have heard me cry because I am not talk to her. I talk to her while I was at my parents and being at my parents yesterday and today knowing I wasn't talk to her his wife-, hurt.

I know I am forgetting something and wrote this trying to say something but it didn't come out. I cried tonight not be able to talk to her and others due to my past that my mind is fuzzy.

Judith

 

[Mishka95673]

.

 

[Judith]

TO Mishka and others staff, male victims too-members etc. Kevin etc.


:blush:

Will try to keep short.

read all the way through before responding. I am sorry it is long but as you read it you will understand why.

About Greg and me and his wife E. in all of it except where the places are that i mention another letter or name.

A means i have a communication challenge that i cant always control sometimes and it is like you all see a helicopter and i see a plane. That is the only way to know how to explain it.
Sorry for mispells i know how to spell but.

I need to respond to this in alot of ways and will do so underneath. I also need to inform you of somethings you may not be aware of. I also need to say taht I like support groups like this because I get more than one person perspective and due to my past I also like to have male perspectives. IT is easier to explain a woman to a man than the reverse. I usually dont talk about myself in detail in a group like this for alot of reasons include the fact of seeing a therapist or not.

Give background info mostly at first underneath then ask questions at the end


I do have a relationship challenge that I will carry teh rest of my life therapist or not. I have talk with a therapist in the past about my past to heal from it. I finally realize due to some things related to people that I have experience enlightening things about my relationship challenges that will stay with me the rest of my life. There are some things
IT has a name and i can give it. But one of the things it shows is the little professor. I see things from facts and from like i see a helicopter and others see a plane.


I will continue to heal from the rest of my life due to growing up in it-due to CSA-so I am survivor and friend of a victim.

Before i respond to the below that i need to not only to share but inform and update and so on so i can continue to have feedback on this particular situation and others. I have had males from this site like what I Have to say and want to share something I also have learn in response to experiences I have had with other abuse victims.

Kevin I would like your take on this even though.

Not sure where to start.

I like to seek confirmation and affirmation on things mainly.


Judith, the best people to help you navigate through your quandary are therapists. Therapists can help him identify why he feels the need to adopt you as a mother figure, knowing that such a relationship complicates and puts at risk his marriage. If I understood your note, his therapist does not support your relationship.

Judith; First off I am talk to a therapist about this situation but i really dont need her and can diagnose myself but I have realize sadly to late after the fact taht I saw how things have happen beyond my control due to this connection i have. And that the A i mention that is a communication difficulty that i have the rest of my life-little professor. meaning that A is the thing of it is easier to be a helper than a friend.

I like to have male perspectives due to my past and my father failing to give me what i needed about males.
The goal is to develop friends locally inspite of my challenge I will have the relationship thing i have the rest of my life.
I am in support groups and have contacts online that are mostly female. I like to help and usually helping is safer than being friends. That is a part of that name, I am willing to give- if you want to know ,which plays into the reason why I have struggle with this connection with this father who is in his 30s and male sexual abuse victim who suffer at the hands of a woman who use being a mother to hurt him sexually.
I have now forgotten what i wrote but As i write through here I will add or clarify to have you help me to understand some male things.

As for the mother son thing. IF you all dont know there is therapists today doing what is called reparenting and being a parent mentor. I have a author and title of a book taht i can give about it that has stated that is what she is doing. The therapists are doing this now. My father mentor i have talk about did this for me back in 2001 and just recently called me his friend. THis father mentor is online in another state in the US.
I ask my theraipst about if i did wrong by doing it and i didnt regarding offering mother son to greg. Therapists and mentors etc can do this in and out of the office. My former therapist Heidi told me that i would learn more about relationships in person and online than being in her office. She encourage the father mentor online contact that i had/have. My current therapist that is helping me with this is said the same thing.
Mother son thing: I have had a local person she is an adult and the woman is an adult-recently mention that a woman adopted her as a mother here locally. Due to her own mother not being there for her. Also my current therapist said I did nothing wrong by offering that to him. Greg.
Males bring order out of chaotic feelings. My former therapist supported the online father mentor contact.

It is called reparenting and anyone can do it. Online i research that about male female connections in relation to doing reparenting and found that when there is like ten years age difference or more-it is good especially for male victims who mother rejected the person in childhood. Which his mother did at age nine and his family females hurt him more after that.
I have been told i sound like a therapist which i am not but due to my relationship challenge i have that i have limited control over-has that thing in it.

I am not sure if i was clear on what happen that caused it to stop for the second time and i realize with him it may never be. But even though sadly it didnt turn out like i had hope he had given me a gift without realize it. And i need to inform him -and have apologize to him about it-that...

One thing I have learned in talk to both male and female sexual abuse victims is that the parents didnt teach teh child male and female how to have healthy nonsexual nonromantic connections friendships. by how the parents related to one another in the marriage and have friends outside of it.

Also I have seen that the abuse victim or sexual trauma victim has insecurity in a relationships due to rejection but also at the same time in a marriage of lose the other person. IF this doesnt make sense in this sentence let me know.
His wife suffered sexual trauma in childhood by a boy force himself on her got her pregnant and her daughter is in college now.

Also something else about his wife you need to know
HIs wife has a stuttering physical challenges. She had suffered rejection in childhood over it. She like that i was wanting to be friends with her and was afraid to lose me. She after he informed me of her not initially wanting to talk to me becuase of the mother son thing on may 4 2015 . He was surprised -she did on that tues may 5. Also he informed me she said that i meant alot ot her which meant alot to me. She also called me sisters of sorts. I like talk to both because I could help both and see the male female differnces play out etc. She was devasted to learn about me and him in what he and I offered each other. I was devastated that she -as of this writing -....
She only talk on text and talk from home and was not always forthcoming to me about things. Finish below Now i realize she was still very sensitive to rejection worse than I was. and or so it seems. And she has done things similar to me that i used to do due to us both being rejected in our pasts. We do share a similarity with regards to communication difficulty.

Also i have seen with my father mentor that the woman who is secure in her self and her spouse relationship is when knowing why the contact with a woman is fine with them talk to both. I understand why wives who are victims and or both spouses are victims why the relate as they do with another person. I know a father who talk to me regardless he told his wife if i could help him save his marriage he was talk to me anyway. I know some fathers do that. Not the same person as Greg.
Since the first time around Greg needed the contact year ago in 2014 after starting counseling with his therapist the first year. He told me recently he wanted the contact 2015 and like my talks almost seeming like better than his therapist. I have supported his therapists choices and inform him so.
He said he wanted to continue the talks and as of last week was going to try to continue the talks on the phone daily etc. like we had been doing. He calls from work when he has time. I know he has obligations. I do phone for tone of voice. And i have to. I usually do once a week in addition to other forms of communication online.
I wanted to learn his emotions this time and he had just gotten comfortable with me on text on his wife phone by take it to a work dinner on a wed before may 4, 2015, . Because and due to male victims have a trouble initiate due to a woman abuse them-that I need him to make the contact.

I dont break up marriages at all. Can explain that if you want me to.

I had informed him of another father who failed to help himself continuously after he got some initial help from me. Whatever the word help means.

R said that by talk to me due to his mother cause him to fear relationships with women-that he said by talk to me help him to be able to talk to his wife.

Greg wife E also experience the mother son thing from him the first time around due to his responding to me about a subject we were talk about that had nothing to do with being mother son but the relationship was in the context of that. She has not his wife experience sexual abuse like he and I have and so would not understand that what he did aa year ago would not happen now. So she would also now understand that it wasnt the mother son thing that led to him hurting himself it was a different topic.
He was able to set a boundary with me earlier this year. and separate out the mother son thing last year from his abuse. So he was able to do it this time better than last year.
When we were doing mother son this year-he responded to me by protecting me his mother -we adopted in name only.
His emotional response of have me protecting me his mother over his wife was out of emotional response not a behavior response.
But she doesnt realize that he is going to respond on a emotional roller coaster as he heals from his past etc adn taht that is only temporary. (what amazing to me about this site is the wife is on here seeking help from others including male sexual abuse victims. )
My thoughts is and i dont know if it is true or not and i struggle with that. Is two fold. One is Would he be not talk to me becuase he likes talk to me so much that since he responds in a way where he is learning to control his emotions that he is not talk to me yet for that reason. I have no way of knowing if this is true. I wont hear from him unless i get a notice. aS of this writing I am battling thoughts on that.
Secondly on this is First off this is online and not through any other means. Long distance like this site is. He is in the US and i am in the US.


On this site that i met him in like the others fathers-has now more sexual abuse victims on it than it had in the past. But it is a place that has all kinds of topics and is not like this one.

Anyway, He has child developmental stuff to work through and abuse victims do. She doesnt understand that and what happen in result of me getting close to her sharing about me and me to him cause this to happen separately and together and exclude him , include him, exclude her , include her. It was not going to be ongoing.

The thing is his wife was scared that he would repeat what he did the last time he talk with me.
Also the physical intimacy was a factor last year which that is nnot the case this time.
So there will be mother son child developmental stuff to work through adn I can get you the book that i am now reading that talks about this.
I am leading up to a question.

THis is a day that I can write things without the emotions being all over the place.


I have and as of last week he has said he was still talk to me -and still wants to. May 28,He is a male father sexual abuse victim. HE has his mother left him when he was nine.

Your therapist is the best person to talk with regarding your desire to play the role of his mother and to ascertain whether it is a healthy choice for you to allow or place yourself in their relationship and if not, what needs of your own have not been met in your life to motivate you to interact with another woman's husband behind her back.

Judith: I Responded to most of this above.
What happen was is on May 4 she found a mothers day card he was going to send me. He and I agreed that we would inform her about us doing that. We were waiting for the right time to do it. I dont like lie and he doesnt either and abuse victims dont but we lie out of self protection. I dont do it now since i heal from stuff back in 2001-3 but i was leave it up to him to inform her about what we were doing.
What is confuse is he was waiting for he and i to inform her but he -even though I know she has the right to see his backback-usually victims sabotage things. She accidently found it in his backpack when she went to get stamps to mail me something. I still dont understand why it happen like it did. He usually was waiting on to things etc.
He offered to do somethign for me and wanted to becuase of my helping him. I offered that if he ever wanted to do the mother son thing in the future i was open to it. I was surprised that he did it again this year. I know why because abuse victims want a parent and our parents will never heal from the past etc. It amaze me that he also was able to pick up that i wanted a connection-either to a father or brother or mother son.
Even though it is not mother son-he has wanted still the connection for alot of reasons which i name in here.

His wife would never understand the loss a abuse victims experiences with regards to mother loss and father loss. Alot of us even people today are wanting a parent. In this book I am reading which I agree with -the person needs to heal the mother son etc stuff from the past before have children etc. Every one really today is live out the child part of them in relationships with adults and treating that adult in regards to how the person hurt them. their parent and relate to persons in life as what their parents formerly did. book Reparenting Yourself Growing up Again recovering Your lost Self. ARt Martin.
Reparenting the child who Hurts : Developmental Trauma and attachemnt. CAroline ARcher. She is a parent mentor to kids -she a therapist -therapists do a form of it when it is called transference.

I was not going behind her back. She left it up to him to inform her about our talks. She let him have private talks with me and that was his thing.
I agreed that i promised that i would not reveal our talks to his wife but i would inform her about things related to me that had to do with emergency type things.
I hinted at that to her that we were doing it.
What has caused me confusion is her not seeing the value of it.

What i dont understand is can a wife be afraid to let her husband do what HE needs to do for HIMSELf in order to heal due to her own past being afraid of hurt etc. ?????????

He was deeply hurt and sadden that she rejected me for finding out that we were doing this. HE wanted us to have connections her and I. I hope that -and I explain why i say this-that i since he can help me to understand her better was to talk to him first and ask him about how we can have her be comfortable with us talking again. but i need advice from him about how to talk to her. I apologize to him for what happen.
The thing I struggle with that i will have the rest of my life that has a name to it that starts with the letter A
talks about how my difficulty in relating to her a person who has difficulty talk online -her stuttering thing and my difficulty pick up on social cues etc on the internet.
I wonder if she would have been able to be able to talk to me at all given our communication difficulties. Since we both have that and he doesnt. He can talk on the phone and she is scared to do so. ????I would not have him talk to her for me before me.

It would be completely different to me if the wife welcomed you but she doesn't and instead of distancing yourself from the situation so you can see things objectively, you seem caught up in your own turmoil to want to spend time with someone else's husband, regardless of the role. You say he needs to get firmer with his wife, to stand up for you and your relationship with him.

What matters is that his own therapist pointed this out to you two.

Judith: HIs therapist even though you are partly right. Didnt know that i have this thing called A. That my helping is easier to relate to people than being friends. When i have friends my communication challenges have problems. When i help i dont.
I can talk about anything but sometimes it depends. WHich this concerns me in that i have informed him of something related to this that leaves me for cause for concern explain this later. She saw that i have this thing called A and that is also what caused him to not be so sure of me the first time but there was no need of it now.

Due to my father not getting counseling for himself and resolve teh abuse he had by his mother- I have learn alot about men and fathers. through avenues like this site.

I help others because of my past. My sister who is was a therapist did the same thing. she help teen boys due to our father not teach us how to relate to men. I wanted and never had female friends and never thought I would have someone like his wife to want me to be her friend and that i would mean alot to him. HE wanted and is and i support it that he is working to get his marriage on track. The website that i respond to his first post in a year ago-has other persons on it -the wife is on their to seek help for the husband and vice versa. I am not the only never married single on the site.

I have never had guy friends and never understood how to relate to them. This is a learning experience for me. I never had a guy want to talk to me and like the talks i gave on how to heal things etc.

He is different than the other fathers I have talk to from this TAM site. even though they like talk to me and stay in touch with me etc. He is very different than them and the youngest one.
This is new to me in how he behaves and the males on this site can understand what he is doing and can give me male perspective here in male survivor.

They never said to me they wanted to talk to me even though that is the case the other fathers from the other site. Also I never knew that he wanted to be a friend to me.
Also due to the A thing I Have -it is hard to see when someone is wanting to be my friend even a guy. I had alot of rejection in my childhood when it came to males.
I dont want and never break up a marriage my parents almost divorce and i am a product of a divorce in my family tree etc. Also my grandmother lied about my bio grandfather and cause problems in the family tree as a result. I am illegimate granddaughter.

Children need the parents. The only way he is talk to me is through the TAM site similar to this one. He is contact me. I dont him she has no clue we are in contact on there. I wait for him to contact me but. I will not be rude etc but I do have to let him know some things.

He said as of last week on thurs by email through TAM website that he would still want to do the daily contact by phone etc. when he could.

I have not heard from him since last week. even by email

Since my experience with males healthy and abuse victims is minimal -i ask questions from this site to understand males.

I like Kevin response early on when i started. partly because he shared his experience regardless of what may happen. I wont be rude to someone who seeks me out and wants help etc. and still wants contact with me.

Here is why i am talking about him still even if i do or dont hear from him. Due to A that I have i have a hard time with time factors and dont understand somethings that are confusing. I am talk to my support system which i kind of see this as that.
Also his wife does not know that i know of that he is talk to me on the site. His notice on the site to him has been turned off. The goal is to reconnect to her.
She has family that has what i deal with but seeing it online is very different than talk to someone on text on an iphone with it.

What is confuse is when we were mother son -he made an effort to talk to me regardless.

Before and after we did mother son he didnt ... realize and agree with him in work on put his marriage back on track and i can understand why he may have difficulty have two things going on at once. I had a person inform me that males have a hard time have several relationships at once. His mother was to teach him that etc. And or i wonder if that is just a male thing. also. ???????

I realize he is focusing on his marriage and get it back on track and regrets doing mother son with me given what his wife response was. He was the one to say yes. I realize i probably should have said no but the goal was to inform his wife. I didnt expect him to leave it where it could be found. I realize why -but his actions was confusing. to say the least. When he and i agreed that he would and I talk to her about it.
She agreed that his conversations were private between me and him. How do you keep a promise to someone who wants the convo private and the wife is respect the convos by letting them be private to him and I. ??????

My thought was to inform him that she would see waht we talk about so that we all three can be connected to each other again.

What i dont understand is why a wife is afraid to let a spouse father do what he needs to do to heal -.. I realize he may not have been telling me every thing. ????????
Any experience especially the males to share with me your experiences with women married or not that was there for you when you needed someone even if it was not in a needing capacity. If that makes sense?

Unless things have change since last week. He was not very good at all to begin with in responding to me after we reconnected last summer by email.
Since he was needing the help before he saw his therapist last year-he was consistent in responding. Obviously given slight variation in the circumstances again he is doing the same thing on some level what he did last summer.

It is just confusing in that -he wants the contact wanted us to continue our talks and so on but is not make a effort to talk and he said he was going to call etc. Also he when he was doing mother son he went out of his way to make contact to call me. So why the difference besides the marital thing being a factor. ??? what is it i am missing besides that?
like my talks better than his therapist on some level. I do know that his therapist knows his wife , relative coworker for whatever that is worth.

I am just seeking understanding about his behavior regardless if he talks to me or not and due to A that i have time constraints difficulties is a challenge to say the least.
Is it me being a female being a factor, Is ti he being a male a factor? is it him being a victim a factor? what is it?

I have mixed emotions about being in touch with him now.

I wont be rude but i would like to learn from him if he is still wanting to talk. I said to him in our convo a week ago by email-i want to learn from a guy. how would he have taken that?

Along with that is i have mention that to him that his wife struggle to talk to me because she couldnt always carry the convo. I explain to him what that was-being A -
He wanted to talk about anything and I can. But am concern about how he received that. How would you the males on here receive that?

This being the internet and i do this with all people not just him but because his is or was a nonromantic nonsexual connection friend etc supporting him in his recovery from abuse and that i was the first one that understood him in his past and accepted him and not reject him for what he went through. That he until i know different -glad i understood him enough that he has someone he can connect to. I had the understanding that his wife cause him to lose another connection from childhood but unless he is not understanding me-he, i understood couldnt have her. He says not-but i dont think he is understanding me. His wife is to afraid of not letting him heal etc regardless if it is mother son-... Codependancy-think of that. That is a fact given her past and ....


I am just seeking understanding in helping me to understand him as a male etc. What I am missing in this?

I would like feedback regardless of how this turns out.

I kind of sometimes need to talk about something to work it through regardless of how it ends.

Mishka . I have read the rest of what you said and responded in the above. I have deleted out stuff that I have already responded to above. I understand all of what you said and appreciate it.

Look, I am not saying women can't be friends with married men. I have male friends who are married.

Judith: This helps with the confirmation of how it can happen and still be.

One more example, Judith. I She has no issues with our close friendship BECAUSE I act in a trustworthy fashion - I don't sneak around with her husband. I visit them in their home. I talk with her. I play with the children. And she knows I am her sister and would not disrespect her or harm her and the kids.

Judith: This is what i would have hope to have happen with his wife after she found out. She has no way of knowing if he has contact me. see comments above. I dont know if he is or not going to now. as of last week. see above. I respect what he does. to save his marriage. My goal is to if he does ask him about how to talk to her etc and then...he wants us to reconnect his wife and I . and i want to talk to her. You have no idea how painful this is that -she .... He is sorry taht we are not talk to each other due to his actions. But I have been told and suggested that to apologize to her and inform her taht i am sorry and she does need to know how my A played into it. that it was that that was a contribute factor in why it also happen. THat she may come around. The "A" thing that i have -has affected other connections -again it is like I think like a plane and you all think like a helicopter.
Due to the "A" thing which three other people know what it is that is not on here have seen it play out and not disconnect from me. Julie saw it when she said she saw that i couldnt see social cues on the internet. I take things literally.

just needed space and then was glad i recontact them. But her response to me in May...
She is very confuse on some level too.

A long answer Judith but hopefully helpful. I am nervous you cannot see the mess you have walked into.



Judith: It is helpful in most ways. See above. You dont have to worry adn i Hope what i have said above has .. whatever.

My point among others is I just seek info etc even if nothing happens and it ends. But i wont be rude. The above explains things.

Not sure what else to say here.

 

[Judith]

MIshka

Thank you for this latest response. See other email. I dont remember what i said in it to
have this latest response.

 

[Judith]

HI CJ and all male survivors.

Please share your experiences.

First off let me say thank you for sharing your experience. Responses below yours.

Hi Judith,

I'm really sorry you're in such a complex situation that causes such tension and quandary. It must be pretty frustrating not to know what to do.

Judith: YEs it is even now after you read the other one. I dont want to be rude to him but at the same time. I want connection to both. I am hoping unless things have change and he is afraid to say-which i dont. IT is usually just my mind thinking things that are not true.

I do want you and others to read the other and respond too.


Since you asked for advise from male survivors too, I'm going to jump in with both feet.

Judith: As you read the other I do want you to always have male responses.

I can only relay personal experience, and perhaps it will be meaningful enough to shed some light on your situation. Keep in mind, while I have heard of a biological mother/son relationship and an adopted child mother/son relationship, I must admit I am not at all familiar with the relationship you describe.

Judith: Part of it is because of the type of trauma a child has will determine if that is a factor or not. Also i am one to seek out books etc to work and find out about things like this the latest thing that helps a person to heal. etc. attachment issues is what usually brings this up.

It seems it would be rather explosive for the marriage under the most ideal circumstances, and adding in the fact of sexual abuse sustained by both parties can only harm a marriage.

Judith: Depending on the attachment issues will determine if ...
The thing is he never got to heal the child developmental part of life-. A child does go through the defend the parent as a child. It is either in a healthy situation where the parent teaches the child the healthy way it happens and usually it only happens once.
IN a unhealthy situation like abuse. the child usually will defend the mother and protect her from an abusive father.
In his case he never got to do that . I did it but realize why i was doing it but while growing up i had no choice but continue it. I see now why i did it then. I can see why he was doing it with me and i saw it has him healing from his past when he did it. Even though we were doing the real thing as in my comforting him etc.
I realize one can do mothering in skills even when it is not in the context of a mother son relationship
There is a book by the title called mothering ourselves.

Usually in the info i have seen on the net-there has to be a ten year difference when it is male female thing. He is in his late 30s and i am in my late 40s.
It usually goes from mother to child
then child is an adult and gets married. In a son case. He has his mother until age 18. Then he marries then his mother if it is healthy is still close to him but in a different way. His wife is first. A son needs to defend both women depending on the situation. But if is healthy there is no reason to defend. But when your helping a victim-your showing him how it works. Then if the son has a daughter-the daughter is third. The wife understands the unique relationship-and he is close with all three in different ways. I know this was the goal with GReg and I but his wife couldnt see it. for starters. She only has a daughter and a brother and says her ....

I have been married (this second time) for 45 years.
Sexual abuse for me was during the ages of approximately 10-15. I married for the first time long before I connected the dots that childhood sexual abuse at 10-15 could possibly have had any bearing on anything I did later in life. How WRONG that was.

My own biological mother was almost like a third person in that first marriage. It was doomed from day one. And the relationship with my mother was just a simple plain everyday mother/son relationship, nothing out of the ordinary.

Judith; Could you give an example of what this looks like for you.

A mother who loved her son and wanted only the best for him, and a son who, (other than sexual abuse at the hands of people other than a mother), had a reasonably normal childhood.

Judith: Since mothers teach sons how to relate to women. Before age 18 and also teach sons how to have a healthy marital relationship with the opposite sex. First off that is why in your next sentence it had challenges but.. Was your abuse by a woman. How did your mother help or hinder you with females?
In his case his mother failed him and cause him not to be able to heal male female issues. etc.



This marriage was completely torpedoed with no hope of saving it. Although divorce took a year or so, the marriage lasted a couple of weeks, at best. Certainly not 100%, but mostly the reason it failed so miserably was because of that damn mother/son relationship that I thought was so important to make the marriage meaningful.

Judith: What do you mean by that? Was it anything like what i describe above about what you sought it to be?

Can you elaborate on this. I know that this helps but.

It's hard to remove yourself from a person's life, when it's someone you care for.
This is probably what you really don't want to hear, but take it for what it's worth.

Judith: See above and other email i call them.

My thoughts and best wishes are with you in this most difficult situation.


CJ

Mother Teresa may have been able to have such a relationship, I don't know, but otherwise I think it highly unlikely this type relationship can continue with any positive outcome. It's true that two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead It's also true that when there are three people involved it will ALWAYS be two against one. And in your situation the wife is the one left out. Never a good situation.

Juidth: Agree but the goal was not to leave her out and i was see other email etc. I understand what you said. Can you elaborate on -the secret was not going to stay taht way -just long enough to show her that he was doing well in talk to me not being mother son but then ask her that... My thought process is that he was going to respond to me anyway by working through emotions by talk to me. My concern was... But i wanted contact with her too not just him. I still want contact with her even now.

I did not mean to further confuse the situation by inserting my relationship with my own mother. We continued to have a great mother/son relationship until her death. But if I had learned nothing from the first marriage then I would have had another divorce very promptly. The difference with my successful marriage is mother did not come first before my wife; mother did not sneak around with me with therapist appointments. When problems arose (and there were many) all three of us from time to time discussed them, NEVER clandestine just me and my mom. If you add in the element of a pretend mother son relationship then it can only make things worse.

Judith: Did your past play into affecting your ability to know how to relate to women--why did it come first in the other vs the second one. I understand why given my info above as to why it would not come first usually in a healthy situation but he was healing from his past and didnt get to experience mother son stuff to heal. is the only reason why first off he reacted by protect me his mom-then her not understanding why he did and not understanding that there were going to be bumps in the road...

NO you did not confuse me. I just seek to understand why when someone wants it to heal as well as to experience it since they didnt get it and in time woudl have work out to where it would be the way it needed to be. And the wife my friend would have been informed and involved. why she would prevent him from doing something that would help him to heal?

If you really want to help this couple I think you should remove yourself entirely. If she would like to include you later, as part of a professional program of healing and recovery in which all three understand what each of you can offer, that may be helpful. As it now stands neither your friend nor his wife are being helped in any way.

JUdith: I am hoping that it will be that we are all talking again. Something was said that they have counseling and then come back to talk to me but as you read the other for more info. You will understand more to probably respond to this here. See other email

CJ

 

[bey]

I am a csa survivor with major parent issues, and sure I've tried to recreate parent-child relationship in my life (romantic and non-romantic) but for me it is never ever healthy. If I mentioned starting up such a relationship to my partner he would take a very hard line of "no way".

Im not saying its unhealthy for everyone, but it for sure would be for me. And by the sounds of it, either he or his wife or both think its not healthy for him. And really its their decision.

I agree that a lot of adult issues come out of parent issues growing up. But that cant be undone. For example, my husbands adult relationship with his mother is based on 38 years of good parenting, starting from infancy and evolving over time.. I can never recreate that, the base of any "fake" parental relationship would be adult. Reparenting makes some sense but for me thats an internal thing. External people just muck it up.

It sounds like your heart is in the right place but maybe they are telling you that what you want to give isnt what they need to get. Good luck with it all, relationships and connecting with people is hard, no matter who you are.

Ben

 

[Judith]

Hi

I do benefit from other male responses and would like to see more than one. Someone offers something different each

Judith

 

[Mishka95673]

.

 

[Judith]

Mishka

I already saw those. I was talk about the latest one i sent to the thread.
Only one responded after the latest response. on june 3

They responded to my earlier one before June 3. I update since June 3 and only one responded since June 3.

Judith