"Room-mate" Blues

"Room-mate" Blues
S

stride

Registrant
Hi folks, I'm in need of a place to ramble. Feeling really down. Not aware of hope at the moment.

My partner and I have not had sex in a month. I call it "sex" cos' that's basically all it is. We don't make love. That requires presence and an intimacy that my partner does not seem able to give and participate in. And while it might sound like it, I'm not feeling bitter about that right now, just really, really tired and sad.

I have tried for so long
to be patient, supportive, understanding, etc, while also trying to remain positive, attractive and desirable. But in the past month I have gone from a hopeful and emotionally/sexually available woman to one who largely stays well away from
the minefield that is our sex life. If nothing else, I just haven't been able to face the prospect of yet another encounter with my guy that will almost surely leave me feeling emotionally/psychologically/spiritually and sexually alone and abandoned. He seems to have welcomed the reprieve and, while that makes some kind of sense to me, it nonetheless leaves me feeling even worse. He's not so much as even hinted at a desire for any intimacy between us during this time and though I know he's noticed my withdrawal, he's not given any outward indication of that.

Then tonight he called me (en route from his day job to his night job)and casually observed that we've been living more like "roomates" than anything else for the past few weeks. (That, after asking a routine question of how I was and commenting that I sounded really tired.) He didn't seem upset about the situation, just volunteered the acknowledgement. He did say that since we are going to see a counsellor (for the first time) this Thursday night, that perhaps it will at least be a start in helping to relieve the growing strain between us.

I dunno. It's not like me to lose desire for and interest in him, but lately I've just been bouncing around from one emotional state to the next--utter sadness and depression, exhaustion, surrender/resignation, intense anger and resentment, detachment, etc--every emotion and headspace except, other than a few rare moments here and there, hope.

I have read a lot of posts by the men of the MS forums and many, if not all, have a strong ring of familiarity to me. I have mentioned some of them to my partner but he says he's not interested in checking them out himself.

Anyway, I'm starting to wonder if my persistence in staying the course with him is still coming from a place of love and desire or from habit and a reluctance to face the loss of a very dear dream. It is all I can do to get through the days right now. I love my man. I know I do. Right now though, it's hard to feel anything but tired and just very heavily weighed down by it all. I think I've done everything I can, but it feels like I'm the only one (of the two of us) truly committed to working on these issues. Perhaps counselling will help. We'll see. For now though, Thursday night seems a lifetime away and I worry that it'll prove to be "too little too late."

Please forgive me for sounding self-pitying or bitter here. Am feeling a little raw right now.

Stride
 
Anyway, I'm starting to wonder if my persistence in staying the course with him is still coming from a place of love and desire or from habit and a reluctance to face the loss of a very dear dream.
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Dear Stride -

This is a question many partnes struggle with.
When do you go from being loving and supportive to an enabler/codependent?


When I finally asked this question, I received the following responses from a friend, perhaps it will help you.

“I have wrestled with this one for a while. I guess you have to know in your heart that you are a healthy person, making good decisions for ourself, setting a good, healthy example. I think it is a fine line but if your tuned into your own soul and heart you know when the line is being crossed. I think there are reasonable compromises we all make in relationships/partnerships; being a POS takes a bit more, but when you go well beyond your limits and it is too much of yourself or you are sacrificing beyond your good boundaries then it is Co-dependent/enabling.
Everybody is different though so it is really up to you to decide what is right. I try to tell myself the key is staying healthy and grounded in my own boundaries; while remaining flexible, is the best way to maintain. This way I can be secure in saying that something is not ok or I
won't accept this or that.

You have to be attuned to your instincts and ready to act on them. When you have that awful feeling of "this doesn't feel right," then don't even blink. It's NOT right. Our "gut" is there for one reason only: to protect us"

Couples therapy is a good start - but don't expect any miracles - at least not at first. You might want to consider seeing a therapist on your own to help you clarify your "issues". I do not think it is totally by chance that "victims" choose us for partners or that we choose them. I know that there was a time that I had few "boundaries" . In the end, you will have to look at yourself.

White Cat
 
Stride, I am very very sorry for your struggle. I now it too well. My wife (we are now seperated) was feeling my lack of intimacy in the relationship for a long time. Our sex life was different from what you discribe; I hounded her for sex constantly and ultimatly made her feel like an object and not much more (that was all the intamacy I could give at the time). We went to couples counseling which was a great start, but that alone was not enough. I refused to admite that I needed therapy to address my SA issues and that ultimatly lead my wife to give up on our relationship. It was only then (I'm not suggesting you do the same) that I "hit bottom" and relized that I did need help dealing with the many many issues that my SA caused. So what I would advise you is to also seek couseling on your own to keep yuorself from becoming a victim of his SA, and to work on becoming the best YOU that you can be which is seperate and independent from who he is. As far as helping your hubby, try any way you can to get him to seek cousleing by himself. It is an absolute nessity if he has any hope of growing and becoming a happy health man caple of a mutually satisfying relationship. I thought I didn't need the help of a theripist, and I couldn't have been more wrong.
My wife has made great progress in her therapy, she is now a happy person and building herself into quite a beautiful person inside and out. I have been in therapy for a short time and already am feeling good about myself and making great strides becoming a happy healthy (physicly and mentaly) person.
 
I am gonna print this and hand it to my wife???
 
If you all say it's ok for me to share this with her that is.....me, my wife, same thing over here...going on three months (none this year)....
 
Whitecat & Taipan--Thank you both for your responses here. I do think that much of my recent malaise (an understatement!) is the result of my having crossed over from healthy to enabling behaviours. I was going to add "however good my intentions" but realized almost instantly that the intent of my enabling behaviours has been, if only subconsciously, an attempt to get what I want as much or more than they were for any benefit to my partner. A misguided effort to be sure, as such behaviours do more damage than good, changing little for him and leaving me feeling worse than ever (self-betrayal). Not that I think I don't deserve to have my needs met in a relationship, but they're hardly going to be met by pretending to enjoy things that I don't or not to feel hurt by things that hurt, you know? Oh sigh.

Anyway, as always, my heartfelt thanks for your understanding and support.

Orodo--I certainly haven't any objection to you sharing my posts with your wife. Hope they help!
In the meantime, would you be willing to share more about your situation ("going on three months" etc)and what that's about for you?

Stride
 
stride,
I am glad you wrote us. You will get a lot of good advice.
You have been giving a little too much of yourself to your partner. Only he can truly choose to heal. Give him some tools + try to talk about the SA or sexual problems.
My situation is that my hubby can barely even be touched by me, let alone be intimant. Let me tell you about my hubby when he was 5-11. MrEdd was put into a filthy daycare with 3 Perps. MrEdd was violently raped 3x a week at first. My hubby is not going to want sex or even sexual touches for at least months now that his theripy is starting.

Just keep talking + suggesting information. Also get an outside support system. Friends you can tell or church.Stride just do some stuff outside of supporting your partner.
WITH MUCH LOVE,
Kim :p
 
this is a problem we talked about in our group therapy a week or so ago, the guys there all felt some kind of discomfort with whatever 'normal' sex might be defined as.

Some might be as Taipan, demanding but unemotional, others like Orodo, and myself, retreating into asexuality.
However the problem manifests itself in the relationship, we seem to develop such deep rooted hang ups about our sexual relationships, and no matter how much therapy and reading we do it's still one of the hardest things to overcome.
It is for me anyway.

It's not that I don't love my wife anymore, or find her unattractive, I don't. The problem is in my head.

When we were younger we were at it like rabbits, but that's the benefit of youth I suppose. We had stronger sex drives then.
As we've got older and things eased off naturally I tried fantasy to spice up our sex. But I never shared it with her, and the fantasy was about what I did as a boy.
Then confusion set in, sometimes the fantasy worked, sometimes not. It took over, I hated it.
I developed the fantasies, I acted the fantasies out.
And all the time our sex life was degenerating.

As best as I can remember about when we were younger, sex was still a strained affair between us . I didn't speak, suggest anything, ask anything and my main concern was to go for as long as possible. The macho thing.
I didn't kiss much and foreplay was quick and fumbling.
I improved on the foreplay and not much else.

My role models were perverts who taught me to be a slave to their sexual needs. Nobody taught me any scrap of usefull sex education at all. The only thing we learnt in class was the very basic biological facts, in ten minutes flat !
When I started work I was an apprentice at a big engineering plant where porn was common, so my already distorted ideas about sex were bent out of shape even more.

Is it any wonder I can't deal with being intimate ?

I fear I'm not alone either.

Dave
 
My wife and I have been married since 1989, and we dated exclusively for two years prior to that. I told her I'd been abused by a priest, a much older boy when i was 8 on, and she knew that i'd been having multiple sexual relationships all thru grammar school, high school and college, male and female. She hated my gay friends, and all my sex partners living in my dorm when i was a senior in college. At one point before we were "monogamous", and not mutually exclusive sexually, i initiated a "threesome" with her, me and a male friend of mine. At first she was intrigued, but later during the nite, got turned off, and hauled me outta there. On the ride home, she said, "you have to choose, keep living like this (drunk, high, sex all the time) and be dead, or choose to be with me only, and live." I chose to be with her, and here i am. So I have remained monogamous, but had not realized what an impact the abuse had on my life. We married, have three boys now, a home, both work full time all that. have always had problems with intimacy for the whole marriage, but attributed that to "who i am, who we are". About a two years ago it was getting bad, so i requested that we do marriage counseling. she refused. so i went alone. didn't get much done that way. still trying to overcompensate by doing more stuff, buying more stuff for her. I do laundry, pick up and drop off kids, chauffeur them around town, cook sometimes, give baths, make lunches, do dusting, vaccuuming all the home maintenance, buy her jewelry, flowers. the more i do
the more she has come to expect
so last year, the church scandal breaks

I realize that what hapened to me, has a had a terrible impact on me, and now my wife is in it as are my kids. learned that my perp living down the street. more therapy. more distance from her, she claims i am always on the computer, spaced out, "on another planet" not present, not inimtate.
so i try to change some more
start having sex with her every nite
soon she gets tired of that
wants me to "hold her hand, goose her, make kissy face, not necessarily have sex all the time, she's too tired"
so...i lay off
then she says she's not getting enuff intimacy, we are like roommates, and starts sleeping on the couch, or sometimes i do
that was around the holidays of '02. and we haven't had sex this year.

i think it stemsback to an incident where i encouraged her to a position, that actually reminded me of what one of my perps did to me. I had to stop what we were doing, and go vomit. that really turned her off.

she still won't come with me to therapy. she won't sleep in the same bed as me, "cuz you smell like a cigar" ( i smoke cigars like a a chimney) and she does not want to be intimate with me cuz we don't appear to be "in love " and I don't love her, andit's all my fault, cuz i'm so fucked up.

SSSooooo

i stopped taking the anti-d's, stopped the therapy, trying something different than what i've done for the last year.

I go to bed with her just last weeekend, try to start something, and she gets up to go to the bathroom, and doesn't come back. til morning
things that make u go hhhmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Peace

Orodo
 
Hi O,

It takes two to tangle--but it also takes two to be a loving couple. If there is no mutuality, well you did what you could.

If your sons joy is important to her she will try to be a warm friend to you at the least. Your boys deserve a warm home but you can't do that alone. It is especially hard if strong cold winds from the north rip through the house all the time.

I am sorry that there are always complications for you and your family. Would puttng your sons health and happiness ahead of either of yours make things be different? I really don't know how you and your wife can have much energy for the kids if you spend so much of it being unhappy with each other.

Of course, I have never married, so I don't know. Maybe married folks can pull it off. I sure know I could not.

My prayers are with you, all five of you.

Bob
 
Orodo,

Thank you for elaborating re: the situation between you and your wife, though I am very sad to read it. It sounds to me like she is, for whatever reason, not open to exploring these issues with you (of which many are clearly her own). It also sounds like you are doing everything you can think of to bridge the current distance between you two. I wish you the very best with those efforts, but remember to take care of yourself too! (Advice I could use a little more practice with myself.)

A thought: While it may not be the case here at all, I thought I would throw this out there, just in case. My guy is very sweet about making thoughtful phone calls, cooking me dinner, and almost always greeting me with a warm smile, etc. He surprises me with flowers every once in a while, cuddles me when we're sleeping, encourages me to do more things just for myself (go out with friends, return to grad school, find a job I like, do less around the house and leave things for him [e.g. dishes, laundry]), etc. In short, he is very loving and considerate of me in certain ways. He almost always has a hug for me, always introduces me to his friends and acquaintances that I've not met before and generally lets me know that I'm very special to him and matter in his life. (And if he's been drinking [2-3X/wk], he's often even more attentive, frequently opening up to me in ways that he doesn't when he's sober or leaving me very sweet, sentimental and appreciative notes, though he never does this when he's sober so it's not exactly a positive aspect of our relationship.)

Despite all of this, however, our sex life remains problem-ridden and his unwillingness/inability to deal with his CSA issues leaves a HUGE hole in our relationship. Consequently, the lack of intimacy, open and honest personal communication, and the long-standing problems with our sex life are increasingly having a degenerative effect on our relationship overall. In other words, while I do treasure and appreciate the smiles, the flowers, and the dinners he makes for me every few days, these things do not address the issues that are tearing us apart. All the flowers in the world will not heal the pain and other deleritorious effects of not being able to really connect with him emotionally/sexually/etc.
Anyway, the longer our problems with intimacy and sex go on, the less I find that I am able to respond as positively to his other gestures of love. I find myself withdrawing more and more, not out of vindictiveness or as some kind of attempt to manipulate him, but out of a growing sense of hopelessness and loss of faith. Does this make sense?

This is also becoming increasingly true of those occasions when he does initiate or respond to my sexual overtures. My budding tendency to withdraw in that arena comes from a place of distrust: Basically, a distrust that the experience will be a positive and mutually fulfilling one for either of us. I long to make love with him and to have an active, happy sex life, but have become quite gun-shy about even trying to "go there" with him anymore, given my experiences with him thus far.

I've also noticed that if I become really withdrawn for any length of time (which is not characteristic of me by any means), he tends to start making "peace-making" overtures. Unfortunately, the nature of those overtures do not address the real issue or my needs. Not to take anything away from what he is able to give me, but it is a deep and abiding connection with HIM that I want and need most, not flowers. I need intimacy. Reciprocal communication and sharing. I want him to TALK with me. Caress me. Be able to relax and enjoy my caresses and expressions of love for him. Make love with me (which is not to be confused with simply going through the motions of having sex).

So, he winds up frustrated and pissed-off cos' despite the flowers, etc, I'm still unhappy and still wanting to talk about/resolve the very issues that he is so utterly loathe to discuss, nevermind explore physically. I am asking for more intimacy and he's channel surfing in loud silence on the couch, after having moved the vase of flowers out from his line of vision.

On rare occasions, my guy does seem to make more of an effort to have sex with me more often and will even go for spells where he doesn't look at porn in an effort to help things between us (tho' he works in a strip bar by day!). Sadly, this just means that we have sex more often for a short while, but nothing about the sex itself changes. He is still not able to be "present," still instantly loses interest (and physical ability) if we're not in the most impersonal of positions possible, still says absolutely nothing and insists that I remain quiet too, still clearly does not enjoy much in the way of foreplay or pleasuring me, still jumps out of bed as soon as it's over for him (often going to bathroom immediately to wash), etc. So at those times, yeh, we're having more sex, but I end up feeling more discouraged, hurt and frustrated than ever. Meanwhile, he sometimes asserts that this only goes to show that "no matter what [he] does won't be happy."

Anyway, if you've always had problems with intimacy, is it possible that over time your wife has simply come to harbour so much distrust, anger or a general sense of hopelessness that she can't find her way back to you right now?

My sense of anger towards my partner is a recent development in our relationship, but when it rears its ugly head, I don't want to sleep with him either and if he's been drinking, his breath will leave me cold at those times. (If he's been drinking, BTW, he's usually exceptionally attentive, but NEVER sexual--very mixed messages that are very hard to process when all of the attention only makes me want him more.)

Again, this is not about trying to "punish" him at all. It's about my own fears and the desire to avoid being further upset. It's about my feeling so impotent in trying to fix things with him. It's about knowing that if I'm in close proximity to him when I'm feeling that way, I may well do something that will only cause more hurt for us both (e.g. lose my temper, say unfair or hurtful things, etc). Sometimes it is just about knowing that if I lay in bed with him I'm likely to become physically aroused only to be rejected or, if not, have things turn out like they almost always do (see 2 paragraphs above), is enough to. In the latter case (wanting him but fearing how it'll turn out), I have gotten up from our bed a few times now (making some excuse about being hungry or something) to go and sleep on the couch, feeling utterly cornered by the whole scenario.

I dunno, O. A big difference between your situation and ours is that you HAVE sought help for your SA issues and it sounds like your wife is the one who's uncommunicative and unwilling to work on things, at least for now.

Perhaps what I've shared here may hold some applicable insights into your wife's behaviour for you, perhaps not. I'm sure you feel like your beating your head against the proverbial brick wall with it all (don't do that;-).

Hope things work out for you, one way or the other. In the meantime, don't stop taking care of YOURSELF, ok?

Stride
 
Stride:

Thank you for your reply. I'm cryin right now, I'm not sure why. But thank you for the insight from the Survivor's Wife perpsective.

Peace

Orodo
 
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