Repressed memories...
Repressed memories...
- Thread starterWhicker
- Start date
With apologies to Whicker, I urge all who are dealing with repressed memories NOT to read the report he has suggested without first talking to your therapist or someone who is quite knoledgable about the subject of repressed memories. What is written here can be very disturbing to you. It is a scientific document and should not be read without someone present who knows how to interpret what is written.
One of my therapists, after a couple of years of therapy during which we discussed repressed memories suggested that I read: PSYCHOLOGY, PUBILIC POLICY, AND LAW, Volume 4, Number 4, December 1998: Final Report of the American Psycholigical Association Working Group on Investigation of Memories of Childhood Abuse.
In this publication which, believe me, for one such as I, is not easy reading, basically two groups comment on repressed memories from opposite sides of the proposition. Judith L. Alpert, Laura S. Brown and Christine A. Courtois are the "yeas" and Peter A. Ornstein, Stephen J. Ceci, and Elizabeth F. Loftus are the "nays". Now, that said....this is an amazing over-simplification of the material. However, to read one half of this agrument without also reading the other half could be very damaging.
I urge you NOT to read this suggested report alone, but with someone who can help you understand it. Bobby
One of my therapists, after a couple of years of therapy during which we discussed repressed memories suggested that I read: PSYCHOLOGY, PUBILIC POLICY, AND LAW, Volume 4, Number 4, December 1998: Final Report of the American Psycholigical Association Working Group on Investigation of Memories of Childhood Abuse.
In this publication which, believe me, for one such as I, is not easy reading, basically two groups comment on repressed memories from opposite sides of the proposition. Judith L. Alpert, Laura S. Brown and Christine A. Courtois are the "yeas" and Peter A. Ornstein, Stephen J. Ceci, and Elizabeth F. Loftus are the "nays". Now, that said....this is an amazing over-simplification of the material. However, to read one half of this agrument without also reading the other half could be very damaging.
I urge you NOT to read this suggested report alone, but with someone who can help you understand it. Bobby
Some times, too much information is a bad thing.
The REAL work of Healing takes place within you, not within the pages of a book.
Reading up on the ISSUE from every viewpoint, does not equate comfort, contentment or understanding.
The belief that Knowledge will set u free, can instead trap you within its million possibilities.
As helpful as books/articles on the subject of CSA/SA can be, they can give you the deep Healing you need. People's bad judgement (Perps) got us into this mess, People's Good judgement (Therapist's) will get us out.
The REAL work of Healing takes place within you, not within the pages of a book.
Reading up on the ISSUE from every viewpoint, does not equate comfort, contentment or understanding.
The belief that Knowledge will set u free, can instead trap you within its million possibilities.
As helpful as books/articles on the subject of CSA/SA can be, they can give you the deep Healing you need. People's bad judgement (Perps) got us into this mess, People's Good judgement (Therapist's) will get us out.
Mike Church
Registrant
I find this to be a very interesting article that does indeed raise questions. It does not, however delve too much into real repressed memories that she does admit does occur but does not document to any extent. It seems to me to be a very one-sided article written by a professional who's work is sometimes in the Department of Criminology, Law, and Society, University of California as her home page states. I have not verified this.
Here is her home page description.
Elizabeth F. Loftus
University of California, Irvine
Distinguished Professor
Department of Psychology and Social Behavior
Department of Criminology, Law, and Society
Department of Cognitive Sciences
Fellow, Center for the Neurobiology of
Learning and Memory
2393 Social Ecology II
Irvine CA 92697-7085 USA
Before reading this I would urge, as Blacken and Bobby have both indicated in their own way, two sides of any dissertation must be viewed and real healing takes place within.
I know many survivors here who's memories are hidden for years, due to a large measure, by societies attitude that males should suck it up and if it happened it must have been your fault or you were looking for it. Added to that the bullshit that was fed to them by their individual perps along the lines of: You are a piece of shit, nobody will believe you, I will hurt you our your family, you are gay and everyone knows that, you must be gay or you would not have reacted, It is our little secret, You are special. I could go on and on ad nauseum but you all know what I am talking about. Then there are those of us who remember it all and believe, wrongly, that it was no big deal and it does not affect my life, or that we are afraid of being shunned by others. So how do we cope we bury it and pretend and then believe that it was either no big deal or we forget it.
Unfortunately the article in no way presents any of these types of situations so we are left with only half the story.
Another thing that I suspect is that the Lady has no friends that she is aware have been abused and it certainly is apparent she has not been. I love experts who cannot identify with the subject on a personal basis.
We all go for therapy and to Pdocs and search for a place like this for one reason and one reason only. Our lives are so screwed up we reach out to make sense of it all and admit that we need help. And that is what we get. Help through the minefield that is our brain.
I personally do not recommend that anyone here read this onesided treatise, which while well written and seemingly well researched, does not include anything about real repressed memories, except annictdotally.
I am neither a pdoc or a therapist. I am just a guy who remembered it all and felt it was no big deal and because of it wound up a Male Prostitute for three years, a heroin addict for less than three years, and a practicing alcoholic from 17 to 36 and now is a non practicing alcoholic. A guy who hated and resisted authority and could not stand to be told what to do to the extent that anything anyone said would be interpreted as either or both of the above. A guy who was terrified that his past not be revealed, even to his wife and daugther until he was 60. A guy who feels like he is a pharmacy for the medication that he is taking and a guy who has recently been diagnosed confirmly as having ADHD. Whether the last was a result of Rape I do not know. But I do know that it sure exaggerated the affects.
If anyone gets through this mumble I want to thank you. I know I can be very verbose at times.
Here is her home page description.
Elizabeth F. Loftus
University of California, Irvine
Distinguished Professor
Department of Psychology and Social Behavior
Department of Criminology, Law, and Society
Department of Cognitive Sciences
Fellow, Center for the Neurobiology of
Learning and Memory
2393 Social Ecology II
Irvine CA 92697-7085 USA
Before reading this I would urge, as Blacken and Bobby have both indicated in their own way, two sides of any dissertation must be viewed and real healing takes place within.
I know many survivors here who's memories are hidden for years, due to a large measure, by societies attitude that males should suck it up and if it happened it must have been your fault or you were looking for it. Added to that the bullshit that was fed to them by their individual perps along the lines of: You are a piece of shit, nobody will believe you, I will hurt you our your family, you are gay and everyone knows that, you must be gay or you would not have reacted, It is our little secret, You are special. I could go on and on ad nauseum but you all know what I am talking about. Then there are those of us who remember it all and believe, wrongly, that it was no big deal and it does not affect my life, or that we are afraid of being shunned by others. So how do we cope we bury it and pretend and then believe that it was either no big deal or we forget it.
Unfortunately the article in no way presents any of these types of situations so we are left with only half the story.
Another thing that I suspect is that the Lady has no friends that she is aware have been abused and it certainly is apparent she has not been. I love experts who cannot identify with the subject on a personal basis.
We all go for therapy and to Pdocs and search for a place like this for one reason and one reason only. Our lives are so screwed up we reach out to make sense of it all and admit that we need help. And that is what we get. Help through the minefield that is our brain.
I personally do not recommend that anyone here read this onesided treatise, which while well written and seemingly well researched, does not include anything about real repressed memories, except annictdotally.
I am neither a pdoc or a therapist. I am just a guy who remembered it all and felt it was no big deal and because of it wound up a Male Prostitute for three years, a heroin addict for less than three years, and a practicing alcoholic from 17 to 36 and now is a non practicing alcoholic. A guy who hated and resisted authority and could not stand to be told what to do to the extent that anything anyone said would be interpreted as either or both of the above. A guy who was terrified that his past not be revealed, even to his wife and daugther until he was 60. A guy who feels like he is a pharmacy for the medication that he is taking and a guy who has recently been diagnosed confirmly as having ADHD. Whether the last was a result of Rape I do not know. But I do know that it sure exaggerated the affects.
If anyone gets through this mumble I want to thank you. I know I can be very verbose at times.
Morning Star
Registrant
The other day I was Price of Tides again and realised that why I dont have any happy memories of my childhood. The weight of abuse pushed everything down. And so I concluded that my parents didnt love me.
Further, I subconsciously blamed them for not protecting me and negated them completely from my memory.
I just have photographs of my birthday parties but no memories. I only recall the bad moments, the pain. As I was looking at my life thru a dark lense. I could not perceive joy or love.
Further, I subconsciously blamed them for not protecting me and negated them completely from my memory.
I just have photographs of my birthday parties but no memories. I only recall the bad moments, the pain. As I was looking at my life thru a dark lense. I could not perceive joy or love.
willtobecomplete
Registrant
There is a ton of information on reppressed Memories on the site www.jimhopper.com . It contains an objective analyis of all the studies and psycologists on the subject. Very well done! He has a section on the above mentioned psycoligist and her so called "studies". Afer reading it becomes obvious that her agenda is political rather than theraputic.
ForeverFighting
Registrant
The temptation is strong to have somebody else tell us what in our heads is real and what isn't, but I agree that it's really down to each of us to figure that out.
In my experience, I know I can't trust a memory I attribute to myself when I was between 4 and 6. When he was 3 or so, my nephew was in the back seat when his parents had a car wreck. A few months later, he was riding in my truck, and he asked what the key was for on the dash of his passenger side. I told him it's the key to turn off the air bag over there. Then I thought, he doesn't know what an air bag is, so I tried to explain it to him in 3-year-old speak. I told him it's a giant pillow that pops out if the car wrecks to keep your head safe. Another month went by and he told me about this car wreck he had been in with his parents in their "red car" and this giant pillow came and kept him safe. There weren't any airbags in that car.
On the flip side, I have strong attachments to my grandfather on my mom's side. I remember doing things with him, him teaching me to whistle. I loved him. He was my hero. And to this day, I have a gut connection to him. He died when I was 6. I have a contrasting gut hatred for my uncle, my dad, my grandfather on my dad's side. The only thing I know for a fact is that my mom came home one night from school and found me covered with bruises after she'd left me with my dad. When we're really young, I believe we learn things like trust, not trusting, emotional attachments, and fear. And of course, I do remember things like MB and other acting out that was certainly not appropriate for a young boy that was home schooled--no contact with the outside world. I have to sort out my own history. I believe my gut instincts, and I believe the symptems. Throw in a large dose of dissociation, trying to forget so the evils don't show in my face, and I do believe in repressed memories.
I've always appreciated Jim Hopper's site. It was the life stories on his Hope page that really helped me start confronting my past. Sexually Abused Males--Giving and Receiving Guidance and Hope by Jim Hopper, Ph.D.
Loftus is somewhat controversial, and the 'experts' seem to be either against or for her theories. There doesn't seem to be much mid-way views as far as recovered memories are concerned.
Elizabeth Loftus is hugely respected though, and probably someone who's ideas shouldn't be dismissed lightly, even if like myself I have trouble with agreeing with much of what she says.
I would agree with the previous guys who said "don't just read this, read the other side as well"
Jim Hopper seems to make more sense, but that's just my opinion.
Dave
Elizabeth Loftus is hugely respected though, and probably someone who's ideas shouldn't be dismissed lightly, even if like myself I have trouble with agreeing with much of what she says.
I would agree with the previous guys who said "don't just read this, read the other side as well"
Jim Hopper seems to make more sense, but that's just my opinion.
Dave
I too believe in repressed memories. It is just a matter of faith, since I remember every ugly detail from the time it all began. It isnt difficult for me to see how more fortunate minds would bury these details.
By the same token, we are always looking for a scape goat. A way to forgive our own failings. Just as some memories are repressed, so also are some created in falsehood. We survivors dont like to admit that we are ourselves are some times less than honorable. On occasion our deceitful minds even fool themselves.
Memory is a frail creature, shaped as much by conceit as by events. It should be rigorously questioned in the light of honest and brutal self examination. Of course bad things happened. They should be openly acknowledged. Yet we, in our human failings, are often wrong. My mind is clouded by traumas from the past. It is not too much for me to accept the possibility that some of the details of my memory may have been manufactured by my flawed psyche in order to justify my personal faults.
I am not even all that impressionable and have no agenda beyond understanding the truth. That is why I can freely admit that not only is it possible for me to have mis-remembered, in fact I have intentionally lied. I have lied both to others and to myself. Creating a fantasy that suits my ego driven needs, I have come to accept that fantasy as a fact.
Maybe this admission makes me a small, imperfect creature. OK. I accept that judgment, and will remember it, for real!
By the same token, we are always looking for a scape goat. A way to forgive our own failings. Just as some memories are repressed, so also are some created in falsehood. We survivors dont like to admit that we are ourselves are some times less than honorable. On occasion our deceitful minds even fool themselves.
Memory is a frail creature, shaped as much by conceit as by events. It should be rigorously questioned in the light of honest and brutal self examination. Of course bad things happened. They should be openly acknowledged. Yet we, in our human failings, are often wrong. My mind is clouded by traumas from the past. It is not too much for me to accept the possibility that some of the details of my memory may have been manufactured by my flawed psyche in order to justify my personal faults.
I am not even all that impressionable and have no agenda beyond understanding the truth. That is why I can freely admit that not only is it possible for me to have mis-remembered, in fact I have intentionally lied. I have lied both to others and to myself. Creating a fantasy that suits my ego driven needs, I have come to accept that fantasy as a fact.
Maybe this admission makes me a small, imperfect creature. OK. I accept that judgment, and will remember it, for real!