repressed/false memories

repressed/false memories
R

roadrunner

Registrant
On another thread the issue of repressed as opposed to false memories has been raised, and I would just like to ask what people know about this.

I was going to buy a book once about repressed memories of sexual abuse, Renee Fredrickson's Repressed Memories: Journey to recovery from Sexual Abuse. Then I heard that the book was controversial and based on poor research, so I gave it a miss. But now I get the idea that the dismissal of repressed memory is a fraud.

Has anyone looked into this? I would appreciate any ideas or tips for things to read.

Much love,
Larry
 
I saw something or read something, it might have been here, but the focus was based on the fact that most therapist were leading the patient during the session. Other than that I don't know anything else Larry. Sorry for not being of any help but I thought I would say something to let you know I care. I would like to know more about this myself.

Good luck,
 
I had repressed memories and I can assure you that I'm not a fraud. My T explained that repressed memories are intentionally blocked by the brain as a self-defence mechanism, to be released later when it is safe. As it is, I still have very few memories of my actual abuse.

Not sure what books are out there but I would bet on Victims No More having something to say about the subject.
 
Recovering repressed memories is a very dangerous thing. While some people surely must forget some things, there are many not-so-good therapists out there who will claim that if you "think you remember" an incident which was of an abusive nature, it probably happened. Some of these people go even further, encouraging people to put effort into remembering abuse - but sometimes, what ends up happening is that the person simply imagines an abusive scenario, and subsequently accepts that scenario to be fact when it isn't necessarily so. Sometimes, the memories are nonsensical or so improbable as to be dismissable.

Sometimes it takes a bit longer to realize - I recall reading in some detail about a case in Alaska (I think), in which two girls were declared to have been raped by their father, a sheriff's deputy. As the girls' memories were "helped to recover", soon the whole Sheriff's Department, a good deal of the city government, and pretty much everybody who was anybody in this town was "remembered" as having been a rapist or co-abuser. The father, who couldn't remember abusing his daughters but couldn't understand why they would make such a thing up, wanted to cooperate. A therapist told him to "imagine a scenario" in which he molested his daughters, which he did; the therapist then explained that this was really a repressed memory that had just been recovered. He decided to believe the therapist and pled guilty, and went to jail. What he wasn't aware of was that in preperation for a trial, the authorities had the girls medically examined, and they were both found to still be virgins. Upon finally hearing this, the father recanted and demanded to withdraw his plea; the appeal was denied. Whoops.

So if you're trying to recover repressed memories, again I'll allow it's possible - but be VERY careful. And if your therapist starts talking about alien abductions or satanic baby-eating rituals, run (don't walk) across town and get a second opinion, quickly.
 
Repressed memories?

If I can believe someone (a family member) who told me of things I don't remember (and I remember PLENTY) about other times I was abused, then, yes, there are repressed memories.

What she said had the ring of truth to it. I know she is probably right. Why is it repressed? I don't know. Becuase I know that what I DO remember is a nightmare that doesn't end. I don't want anymore nightmares.

We can debate about repressed memories until the cows come home. But in the end, it is what we KNOW in our HEART that counts.

Forget the psychobabble and listen to YOU!
 
Memory is a hard place to be.
The important factor is never to deny a memory as being false, rather work on the issue it raises and try and put yourself back around the time it happened.

Repressed memory is just that, your mind put it away until it can be dealt with in a safe place.
Denial in memory recall can do more damage than good, as we seek to deny it all.

The only way of recalling memory is to recall the good and the bad.
This is where a good T is a must in recalling memory events.

ste
 
Perhaps I should explain where my question comes from. In working with my T I have found that my memories are "all there", like they are floating on a lake but disconnected into safe and unchallenging bits. What triggers me is when pieces and sections drift together and encourage me to look for other similar pieces that fit. They are always there.

The immediate situation is that I recently got triggered badly by something I would never have expected to affect me, and I recalled that the abuser would sometimes refer to the possibility of "sharing" me. That entirely gutted me for all sorts of reasons. I wondered if I was going to get used by all the men in our church, for example, was the pastor "in on it", doesn't this show what a really dirty boy I am, does everyone know but they just pretend they don't, and so on.

I'm with a wonderful T and trust her completely, so that part is okay. She has been helping me with this, and the situation in general is the background for my question.

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry,

Memory is an act of re-creation, isn't it? As such, there is always the possibility that an external source can suggest false elements into the act of remembering. The cautious T takes what the client remembers and works with that, listening for the elements of memory that point to external verification -- the process comes from and is driven by the client. The incautious T projects his or her own expectations of what 'must' have happened, or what it 'must' have been like into the therapeutic process (perhaps because a particular set of presented symptoms "always" points to past abuse) with results that can be catastrophic for the client and for people who in consequence are wrongfully accused as past abusers. It sounds to me as though you have a good T, and it certainly sounds to me as though *you* are the source of the factual material being processed -- all well and good.

As for the book you mention, if it has fallen into disrepute I suspect it may have something to do with that other, incautious model of therapy driven by the therapist, with the client ultimately being used to fulfill the therapist's own poorly-understood need to "discover" things in his or her work and "champion" the stereotypical victim against a stereotyped (and possibly fictitious) monster.

John
 
I repressed the memories of my abuse until I was 40. When the memories began returning, I thought I had to be making them up. It became apparent to me that I had to trust myself and admit that these things actually did happen to me. I worked with a good therapist who never tried to force any additional memories other than the ones that spontaeously occured. I worked through the issues related to that and some other memories did come back, but I have never sought to remember all the details.

I was able to confirm the reality of my memories with another victim of the perp who never repressed his memories of the abuse and knew that I was also being abused at the same time.

Do I think that some people have manufactured memories? Possibly. but I feel the majority of recovered memories of abuse are real. I think there are far more people who manufacture memories of happiness than do so for abuse and misery.
 
My therapist said it's normal for childhood abuse when I told him about feeling slightly insane... remembering the abuse that is.

You want to know something? I am becoming more and more aware that I've always known about the abuse. But I just wasn't willing to look in the mirror and face the harsh and ugly reality of my past life.

steve-o
 
I like to say I "repressed" memories of my abuse; but I mean that in an active way (i.e., I prevented myself from thinking about it). It's not easy to decide to not think about something and succeed. If you don't believe me, I want you to not think about a purple elephant drinking Kool-Aid out of a birdbath right now.

See what I mean?

I managed to put these things out of my mind, and eventually I was able to live life without ever being reminded of them. Kind of like the way you can go a long time without thinking about a car accident. But when somebody asks about your car accident, you can reach back and still remember it. This is the way it was with my abuse. When the occasion called for me to start thinking about that which I had not been thinking of, I was able to do it easily enough. See, I'd never actually forgotten.

I believe people can go years and years not thinking about something, but not quite forgetting either. Then, when the occasion calls for remembering, people do - but the memories are so old and disused that they're all dirty and rusty. Like people who watched the Challenger shuttle blow up on liftoff back in 1986. Everybody talked about it for awhile, and then nobody did for a while. People who watched the event haven't thought about it for decades - they had no reason to. Now, 20 years later, if you ask somebody, they often correctly remember watching the Challenger explode on television - but the memory is so dusty that when they try to describe it moment-by-moment, much of the time their descriptions don't jibe with the reality of the event (as can be seen via recorded footage).

If this sort of thing is what you mean when you talk about repressing/recovering memories, I suppose I can accept those. Understanding that you were abused at some point, but having disassembled memory of the specific details. I am wary, however, of events that have been so completely forgotten that a person most genuinely and vehemently denies they even happened until a therapist starts making them 'emerge'. I've just seen or read about bad things happening way too often with this approach.
 
The idea of repressed memories was always ridiculous to me till August 22, 2003.

I began remembering things that day (no therapist involved) when I was triggered by a magazine article I read while sitting in my doctor's office waiting for and appointment because of a severe sinus infection.

I don't know if you could say exactly that they were repressed so much as I simply had stored them away and refused to go there. I think I always knew there was something there. I was just so practiced at not going there that I didn't think about it for years. Does that make sense?

On the rare occasion memories or a part of one would try to surface and I would shove it back down almost violently, if you will. Like Larry's description, It was almost as if they were broken up into very small pieces none of them connected to the other. This made them sorta harmless.

No memory or part of a memory was ever recovered while sitting on the therapist's couch. One was recovered while typing a post on the member's side not long after I came here. The rest just sort of fleshed out stuff I had already remembered back during those first few days following the original revelation.

On the other hand, I had no real sense that I had been physically and emotionally abused by my mother till January of 2005. Those memories were hidden right out in the open, and I only recognized them for what they were one evening when I was sitting in a joint session with my wife at the therapist's office. I was describing some of the punishment I received as a child and writing it off as normal when I noticed tears in my wife's eyes and a very concerned look in the T's.

Don't know if it helps, Larry, or if I've only further revealed myself to be a nut case, but either way, I'm OK with it.

Lots of love,

John
 
John,

What I wonder now isn't whether my memories are true; I am quite confident that they are (but see below). My feeling these days is this: What more and how much else is still "out there" waiting to drift into place? I talked to my T about this on Thursday and she liked the metaphor of the jigsaw puzzle. We worked on that and agreed that I have the border and enough to see that it's a portrait and not a seascape. So I guess that's reassuring.

I also find that what triggers me isn't so much the memories themselves, but how they fit together and make sense of my mixed up youth. It's good for that to happen, I know, but many times I weary of being reminded.

I do have to admit one thing though. I have been to see four Ts at various times and places now, and in every case I keep asking them if they believe what I am telling them. They do, but I keep asking. So I wonder: Is some part of me still clinging to the hope that I will wake up and none of this has been true?

Much love,
Larry
 
Larry & John & Everyone Else Who's Posted,

I identify with Larry's questioning, and with the jigsaw puzzle metaphor. One of the images I carry with me is having been "shattered" or "split" by the experience -- I became a Good John who wasn't really real, but who went to school and smiled and did what good boys do, and a Bad John who *was* really real and was doing things so nasty there was no place for him in the good people's world. Some of us feel the split as good/bad, others as a sense of unworthiness or shame.

The result, of course, was that I had no consistent concept of self anymore, starting from the age of nine. As a nine-year-old, I began a course of experience whose associated memories could not be processed into a coherent self-image. I was many Johns. And I was still John, too, who felt like he was many Johns and knew that no one anywhere was like that and so even HE couldn't fit in. Much like a piece in a jigsaw puzzle, as a matter of fact.

Since starting T, I've started the process of coalescing the various pieces of memory into a coherent picture of who I was then, who I was as I matured, and who I am today. Because some of the pieces in this new picture are the results of bad choices I made as an adult, the process isn't easy and is often painful. But I have a good T, and with his help, the full, really real picture is emerging of John who has a place in the world.

But the doubting part of me still comes through, much like Larry and his questioning of belief. In my case, I know and do not question the reality of the incest memories. There is family history around them that verifies the reality, and even more importantly my brother and I have spoken of the incidents as adults. It happened, and it happened much as I remember it.

I do continue to question, however, the relevance of the long-ago to the here-and-now. Why does it matter? Why does any of it matter? I don't know any other answer than to say it matters because it happened to me, and I think it has something to do with how I came to be who I am today. But I and my T also see this as a way of trying to minimize the trauma, of trying to make myself back into John-who-does-not-fit. If it doesn't matter, then I am just some asshole misfit. And Larry, I'd like to suggest, if I may, that you will continue to question as a defense against the trauma, as a way of clinging to the Larry who had to go to Scouts and Church and school with no ability to say "This happened to me."

Hugs, both nationally and internationally,
JS
 
John, Larry,

Thanks for those well expressed posts. I too have no doubts whatsoever that the things I have remembered actually happened. There is enough verifiable history surrounding them that I KNOW they happened. I just chose to not "go there" for 30 years. I would say to those that downplay or dismiss the idea of repressed memory "Don't be so sure. Your version of what may or maynot happen surrounding this issue is just that. YOUR VERSION. You've never experienced it, have no first had knowledge of what it's like, or even understand it, so you're talking from a position of ingorance in most cases". (I know that sounds rather aggressive, but I don't intend it as such)

I too find myself going back and thinking "perhaps I am making this up". This self doubt creeps in especially at times when I've encountered people who express doubt or disdain for the whole concept. I seem to have a number of people in my life who fall into that category and are often vocal about their ideas on the subject. Most of them have no idea the devalidation they are throwing my way when they talk like that. None the less, I know what happened, and I know it was real.

I also believe there is relevance of contemplating the "long ago". How else am I going to understand where my thinking went wrong because I was trying to protect myself, etc? How else am I going to unlearn those thought processes if I have no concept of what caused them in the first place?

Thanks John and Larry for your posts. They were very validating for me.

Lots of love,

John
 
Larry
If you want controversy on this issue, then here's a good place to start.

https://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/

I've looked at this issue until I'm confused, I really don't know 'where' the line would fall fall between 'surpressed' - 'forgotten' or 'denied' memories?

Dave
 
Sometimes I wish I had repressed all the memories. Unfortunately I hid mine only skin deep and remember everything with great detail. I do not know which is easier to cope with. I remember times of day, locations, details of surroundings, situations, sounds, smells and even the way I felt in some instances. I guess this type of rememberance is what I need for my healing so I can process it. Sometimes it is detrimental to me especially when it comes to triggers. I have been triggered by a smell before.
 
"I'd like to suggest, if I may, that you will continue to question as a defense against the trauma, as a way of clinging to the Larry who had to go to Scouts and Church and school with no ability to say "This happened to me."" -johnsurvived

That really hit me when reading this. The whole thing of memory still bugs me. I haven't confirmed the abuse because my abuser is dead. It's been 19 years since the abuse ended. I can't say I really remembered in the way I remember what I did last weekend, but more knew.

And I knew one night during sex with my wife - I heard myself say in my mind, "I was abused." When we were done, my wife asked me, "were you abused?"

Within the next week pieces of memory, some that were always in my face, but mislabled or understood, became clear. I understood why when he died I was overjoyed, I understand why I hated him - when I have always been a pacifist and love everyone and am moved with sympathy when someone dies.

I've had memories that seem to surface on their own - when I force myself to look. The thing that always helps me understand the reality is my body's reaction and my overall sense of increased well-being as I work through the memories and realizations. I understand my panic attacks and anxiety attacks and their source and they have decreased - some even gone completely.

I guess I'm rambling - but I'm going to ramble on a little more. The next thing I am facing is telling the extended family. It's always maintained the "perfect" image and I don't know how it's all going to be received. At points I'd like someone to say, yes, it happened so I know I'm not crazy; but at other times I want them to say no, it never could have happened, and then I would know anyway, because I remember. I told my parents and they immediately backed me up and never denied (knowing the man - they didn't know I was left alone with him)

My memories were never forced on me or even suggested. Most of the time they just hit me in the gut when reacting to something in the odd way I used to react to the situation. They are never what I expect - I expect them to be like my fantasy, distant in a way, watching (which a couple are) but they are close, they dig into my soul, it's like his pants against my face, the feel of the material, the zipper... It's never what I expect and it's always too close.

My body always remembers. As I understand and the pieces come together, my body begins to relax. These pieces come together because I cannot understand my way of thinking until I have an ah-ha moment and something so simple and yet so messed up lends clarity, and I find a little more peace.

So be they repressed or suppressed or long forgotten or fragmented or experiences we couldn't understand or buzzed to oblivian by the terror of being raped, who's to say? I guess we are.

One last thought. I started therapy after memories were clear - some continue to arise and I don't know how many there are. I've forgotten 3 years of my life after he raped me. I don't know if there is anything else there. I told my therapist that sometimes I question my memories. He asked me why I would make it up. My mind for the first time in years drew a blank.
 
Scooter,

Thanks for that post. It really touched a chord with me. It seems we have the same experience.

Lots of love,

John
 
I know that the abuse I remember happened but at times I doubt myself until I put the pieces of the puzzle back together. It seems that when I put them back together I feel stronger and very sure of my history.

I know that my abuse was done in secert and I was not suppose to wake up. My teenage and young adult years were lost to confusion about who I was. I guess I was lucky that I did not put myself in unsafe situtations.

My family is unable to listen or resond to my needs. I find that very annoying and it seems to motivate me to find happiness. I guess that is what it is all about.
 
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