Race and SA

[Marc]

Being a survivor of sexual abuse and having a Korean bf the following questions occur to me:
(Bear with me if you think these are stupid.)

While mental illness does cross most cultures and races I wonder what the prevelance of SA is in say Asians, African American, Hispanics, etc...

What relevance does race/ethnicity have in dealing with SA in men? I.E. my experience with many Asian men as a whole leads me to believe that they tend to repress feelings more than most.

Do American born ethnics have more or less ablility to deal with issues of abuse than their foreign born brothers?

I tend to be very ethnocentric when on this website. That is to say that I assume no color but white here even though I suspect that this is not the case.

Pardon my dumbness.

 

[andrew-almost52]

Another question that might be related to what you are saying is: Would an individual who is, by our standards, being abused as a child feel just as abused if he were being raised in a different society than we are i.e. China, Thailand, Chile, Japan, Singapore, Iran. I know that in a couple of those countries the child sex trade is rampant. Do the children of those countries carry the life long stigma that we westerners attach to the act? Are they effected negatively in an emotional or mental sense? I really don't know the answers to those questions, or yours Marc. An excellent thread to have started tho. Peace, Andrew

 

[Mike Church]

Andrew & Marc:

I certainly do not know the answer to that. I do, howver, suspect that Male Sexual Abuse knows no geographic, religious, race, or social status. Where there are boys and young men and others who are sick and in a power positition it happens. I also suspect that the same emotions are felt by victims. Each society has its own beliefs but I do not think they are worth a hill of beans to a victim.

I may be wrong but I dont think so. And I would not want anyone answering this post to talk about their societal backgroung unless they felt completey free to do so.

All I know is that every Survivor here is here for the same reason and that we have members from all over the world. I can only assume from that that SA is a world wide problem. What is important is how we deal with it and move on.

 

[outis]

Geez, two days in a row. A new personal record.

Once again, I shouldn't be answering before my first cup of coffee, but here goes.

In "Leaping Upon the Mountains" Mike Lew includes quotes from male SA survivors to the readers, other male SA survivors. He identifies each by the man's self supplied first name, age, and country or U.S. of A. state. Some of the countries represented include Argentinia, Brazil, Australia, Canada, Ireland, Jordan, Kenya, Israel, Wales, and Zimbabwe. A lot of different cultures.

He also has an essay by M.E. Hart, a lawyer with an impressive set of credentials and professional accomplishments. He's an African American male SA survivor, and he writes about the experience of seeking help with his recovery in the modern day U.S. of A. I won't try to summarize except to say that his skin color definitely impacted the experiences he had versus, say, the experiences that I have had.

As for American born vs. foreign born survivors in the U.S. of A., I would guess that there are differences, perhaps somewhat like the ones Atty. Hart discusses, based in part on how well assimilated the survivor is. For example, I'm assimilated well enough to seek English language resources because all of my grandparents were born in this country. Someone who comes here as a child or adolescent and is struggling with the language, etc. is going to be in a different situation, I'm sure.

Our prez, Dr. Gartner, wrote "Betrayed as Boys" and cites specific attitudes in one culture (I think it's a Pacific island, but I'm not sure.) which most of the people I know personally would consider horribly abusive. Yet in that culture it's more like a rite of passage to adulthood.

Sorry I'm so vague on Dr. Gartner's examples, but I don't have a copy of his book with me. I did check my copy of Mike Lew's book for the stuff I mentioned there.

Before Victor jumps in , let me put in a plug for anyone who wants to read more to use the Male Survivor bookstore to order from Amazon. I didn't and I waited about 3 weeks for these very books to arrive when I took a "free shipping" offer from another bookseller.

Again, I find I'm regaining contact with the world beyond my glasses (not bifocals yet, I'm too vain.) as the first cup drains. Time to post.

Later,

Joe

 

[James_dup1]

I remember reading a study/artical or something once last year about incest in other country's. Seems like I found the link to it here but looked and cant find it now. But it talked about how in the middle east they witnessed an older brother fondling his youner brother in the streets, how in Greese they believed by masterbating the boys as infents it would make them more of a man or by doing that to girls it would help them sleep. How in India young girls would be passed from bed to bed of male family members. At the time I read this I remember wondering if they feel the same amout of shame and guilt as we do. If they know that the boy beside them is having this done as well. I sure wish I could find the link so I put it up here for ya'll to read. But just my thoughts. Cool thead Marc.
James

 

[Wuamei]

If anyone wants to follow the links provided & try to figure out some of the stats there good. I for one think there is a crying need for simple & specific stats on all this.

Meanwhile here are a couple of general summary statements also with links provided.

Race. The NIS-3 found no race differences in maltreatment incidence. The NIS-3 reiterates the findings of the earlier national incidence studies in this regard. That is, the NIS-1 and the NIS-2 also found no significant race differences in the incidence of maltreatment or maltreatment-related injuries.

https://www.calib.com/nccanch/pubs/statinfo/nis3.cfm#child


https://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats.htm#Child


Race

Overall, when comparing whites, blacks, and all persons of other races, blacks had the highest violent crime victimization rates.


Trends in violent victimization by race, 1973-2001

In 2001--

Per every 1,000 persons in that racial group, 31 blacks, 25 whites and 18 persons of others races sustained a violent crime.

Black and white persons experienced statistically similar rates of simple assault.
Black, white, and other races experienced similarly rates of rape/sexual assault and robbery.

https://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_v.htm#race


Whether or not ethnicity increases rates of abuse overall in different ethnic groups is unclear. Tragically there are those who seem to get turned on by "getting" someone of a particular race.

No doubt ethnicity affects how we deal with SA as do the many other factors of who we are, not just as parts of various groups but as unique individuals.

Joe is right on. While no stats are provided,
"Leaping Upon the Mountains" offers stories & help
from the perspectives of individuals from many races & cultures around the world.

Thanks for the plug Joe. I'll add to it that Amazon.com (thru MS bookstore of course!) has free
shipping going on for orders of most new books over $25.

While I find the lack of stats typical of the neglect of SA survivors especially men, I also know that we male survivors all share in common the horror of SA and the hope of recovery.

Victor

 

[Marc]

Wonderful responses!

Victor

It is interesting to note (And I haven't read all the available data yet) That whites have the most prevalant reported level of abuse.

My question is of the other races is, "How much of the abuse is actually reported vs. what is actually occurring and how do these statistics actually reflect this?"

If we are going to address this issue (Male Sexual Abuse), we musn't be half-hearted in our attempts! Because we traffic to other countries, we must include our response to them as well.

James & andrew-almost52

Thank you for the comments! You bring up some very interesting questions/points.

This is exactly the kind of information that we need to address and to review.

I personally (if you follow some comments I made on other threads), feel that this is very much a 'SOCIETAL' issue; Society being global in context. The best way I believe to deal with it is by crossing the cultures at large and 'nipping it in the bud' as it were.

Who here has NOT heard of the 'sex-junkets' to Thailand, Laos, The Czech Republic and South America?

The US and Europe both tend to be the primary perps in this case by and large. I feel it is OUR responsiblity to address it.

Yes? No?

 

[Leosha]

I do not know that it answers your thoughts. But I am from Russia, which is where my abuse occurred. There, it is still not heard much, although prostitution is. Someone here says that years ago, in 1960s or so, it was understood that such things as sexual abuse or incest will not be discussed. That is where Russia is now. Just my answer to you.

 

[Wuamei]

Thank you Leosha. We need to see the worldwide pic
becuz it is a worldwide problem and we male survivors are a worldwide brotherhood.

Here's hoping we hear from men in the many other nations represented on this site.

If anyone can find statistics for their country or continent, or even for their state or province,
it would be a big help.

Even here in the USA where I suspect more stats & more gathering capabilities are available than in most places, I am finding the collection of any stats about male survivors of SA to be very challenging. They tend to be tucked in with stats
about SA in general that focus on women, or on stats about all kinds of abuse in general.

Good thread Marc, thanks.

Victor

 

[outis]

Victor,

For the US of A, the Census Bureau conducts surveys for the Department of Justice. An index to the survey reports is available online here .

The specific table that shows rape/sexual assualt victimization by gender of victim (among other things) for 2001 is here . Note that the numbers for male victims are footnoted as being based on about 10 or fewer sample cases.

Digging into the survey documentation I found:

For the NCVS, rape is defined as forced sexual intercourse including both psychological coercion, as well as physical force. Forced sexual intercourse means vaginal, anal, or oral penetration by the offender(s). This category also includes incidents where the penetration is from a foreign object such as a bottle. A rape victim can be either female or male and the rape can be heterosexual or homosexual.

NCVS also obtains information on attempted rapes and verbal threats of rape and sexual assault. An attempted rape is an incident in which the offender intends to force the victim to have sexual intercourse, but the offender does not penetrate the victim.

Unwanted sexual contact is separate from rape or attempted rape. Unwanted sexual contact may or may not involve force and includes such things as grabbing and fondling without the consent of the victim.

Rape, attempted rape, sexual assaults, and threats of rape and sexual assault are all considered to be personal crimes of violence.

I wish I could believe that low sample is based on low occurrence, but I fear it's more likely that it's not getting reported. So, the survey is confidential and the confidentiality is protected by law, yet the responses on male victimization are incredibly low. Till we get it out in the light, we're not going to get the public to support us in efforts to stop it.

State by state violent crime estimates from FBI reports covering 1960-2001 are here . Note that their definition of rape specifically excludes male victims, and there is no sexual assault category.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Wuamei]

Thanks Joe,

Most of those stats I've seen. Unfortunately they only confirm the point that any stats about male survivors of SA are very hard to access even where
they do exist in some limited form. Right now I can't even convert the pdf files I downloaded.
https://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Foghorn_Leghorn/ltfl_060.wav
Another reminder of how we've really got our work cut out for us men!

Victor

 

[dwf]

Thanks for opening up this discussion, Marc.

I'm not sure if my experience is exactly what you
had in mind, but it's what I reacted to in your topic.

I was sexually abused from 15-21 by an African-American male teacher who was 40 years my senior.

I am Caucasian from the hinterlands of West Texas. The anglo culture there is extremely racist, but the percentage of African Americans is fairly low, around 12 to 15%.

This man assumed a "parental" role in my life, which I guess makes having sex with me more like incest.

Looking back now, it seems to me that the other boys who were under his influence were almost exclusively white.

I don't know any facts or really how to express the impact this had on me. Perhaps it was one more element of the fear of telling; like somehow it was worse to be molested by a black man than by another race.

Once in the course of the years of abuse, a social worker contacted the welfare person in my home town of Odessa, Texas. The lady in Odessa spoke to my mom. My mom reported to me that the Odessa welfare person told her, "Your son is living with ni***rs."

Notice she didn't say with a 55 year old man, we suspect he's being abused.....racial hatred is such an unnatural, illogical belief system that I've got to believe it can only aggravate any harmful practice such as sexual abuse of children.

By the way, my mother's reply: "He doesn't sound like a ni***r."

At that time and to this day, I firmly resist any type of racism or ethnic prejudice. I now wonder if that is part of what made me such an ideal victim for my African-American abuser.

That would fit the pattern of betrayal of the sexual predator. He seized on my immaturity and vulnerability to "protect" me and have sex with me.

He used my desire for a spiritual life and dedication to overcoming racial prejudice, both very noble, especially for a 15 year redneck from Andrews, Texas. He used the best parts of me to get what he wanted, then he discarded me.

Up until about the age of 21, I had many black friends, acquaintances along others of various nationalities. That ended about the time the abuse ended......Hmmmm.....never saw that before.........

I have begun to imagine having a life filled with more diversity and variety of people. Maybe this is part of my recovery.

The abuse did not turn me into a racist. I am still very active in attempts to break down barriers between groups of people.

There is a presentation I give, for residents of nursing homes, in schools and to religious and social groups using fresh flowers to illustrate the value of diversity.

As I build the flower arrangement while giving my talk, I can see the message of unity in diversity sinking in without having to go throught the tangle of human prejudice many of us have embedded in our minds.

I say "Imagine how dull and boring a flower garden would be if all the flowers were the same color, height and shape. Diversity should not be merely tolerated. It must be valued as a precious gift."

The story told by the flowers goes straight to the heart of the listeners. It reaches them through the color, the fragrance and freshmess of the blossoms. It is unity in still life.

But, you know, I don't have hardly any friends now. And none of them are of a different race.

I don't know.......maybe working on this would be another way of grabbing back some of my value as a human that was lost due to the sexual abuse.

Thanks again, Marc. You've opened up new paths for my recovery.

Hope this makes sense to someone, or some of you can help me make sense of it.

I love all of you guys because of what is in your hearts,

Your fellow wolf-pack member,

 

[Marc]

Danny....

You are another of those gentle souls that R O C K!

You have my admiration that in the face of your own pain you 'chose' to see the truth as it really is instead of what people told you that it should be.

Please add me to the list of people that you call 'friend'.

So proud of you!!!!

Incredible pain, incredible suffering, incredible guy!!!

Bonus points for being so honest and having the 'balls' to get out and share your story and your life... and not just with us!

 

[Wuamei]

Interesting...

Was about to respond that I've had 8 perps and none of them were of a different race or ethnicity, tho I'm well aware of who my perps are.

Then it hit me: of my last two perps (they did it together, a couple) one was Afro-American, and oh yeah the other was Norwegian--"Caucasian" but still of a different ethnicity.

Oh yeah DUH: my father was Italian!

So of course I myself am an Italian-American, at least 1/2 Italian.

Guess I just haven't thot much in these terms becuz with all the fatal flaws in my upbringing I was not brot up to be racially/ethnically prejudiced. Perp #1 my bio mother had a lot to do with this.

All I've seen in the 2 years I've been really remembering my SA is 8 perps. 4 female 4 male. 4 family/household 4 not. Race never occured to me.

Which actually is kinda strange...

For a good part of my early childhood years, the majority of my friends were Afro-American. They seemed less inclined to make fun of my Italian heritage by for instance telling "wop" jokes. Guess they understood what it was like...

This began to change when at age 12 I was put into a children's home. The high school there was
racially charged to say the least. My first day of school I got hit from behind, asked the guy (Afro-American) why he did it and he said becuz you're a damned honkey! A damned what? I thot.

Soon after I got beat up by a gang of Afro-Americans becuz I refused to let one of them take away a basketball I was using--I offered to share, & there were plenty of other balls around.

As I began to have struggles with racism I'd never had before, I thot it was becuz of things like this. Plus maybe being away from the non-prejudical influence of my mother.

That's pretty much what I'd thot until right now.

Now this thread has me realizing there may have been more to it than that...

Perhaps my problems with racial bigotry also stemmed from that last incident of sexual abuse, by an Afro-American (and a Norwegian) when I was 11, only about a year before the move from my mother to the children's home.

Since I didn't remember all this till a couple years ago I wouldn't have thot it woulda mattered
but maybe subconsciously it did.

Guess I couldn't be prejudiced against whites becuz I was white.

As for Italians, I had long denied & even hated my Italian heritage. Of course my (hmmmm not so racially unprejudiced!) mother & family (her side) had taught me that well already, as did the hated "wop" jokes. Maybe buried memories of the SA by my father had something to do with that too.

Also this incident of SA by the Afro (and Norwegian) was the latest one, the freshest in my at least subconscious mind, and also the most apparently abusive as it was the most apparently physically violent and also at the hands of relative strangers. Compared to what happened with my father which ended before I was 4.

So now, thanks to this thread, I'm realizing that
at least part of the reason for my adolescent struggles with prejudice racially no doubt had to do with my SA.

What's strange about that in a neat way is that the more I've begun to deal with my problems and remember my abuse, the less I've struggled with racism.

This process actually began when I was 22 (when I became a Christian), continuing thru marrying my current wife a year later, having children, going to a multiracial church, having daughters who made lots of friends of different races, especially at the college & post-grad schools I went to, starting therapy, and getting a big boost when I recalled specifically my SA starting two years ago and began recovery.

After all SA affects us all regardless of race, color, ethnicity, creed, culture, orientation, religion, gender, etc. We are all survivors of it together and must fight it together.

Also this has led to a gradual recovery, especially in the last 2 years, of my "Italian-ness". And I like it!

Part of my refusal to let my SA make me bigoted or make me anything else.

OK guys I rambled but this thread has proven to be very powerful for me. Thank you so much Marc for starting it and thanks to all who have contributed to it.

Victor

 

[TheTraveler]

Interesting question(s). In my way out opinion, I feel that there are 3 distinct parts which can not be necessarily answered together. Of course I have threatened to delete this since it is my opinion, but oh well. Note that while I don't like stereotyping, I mention groups of people based on MY perception of how things are. My perception is my reality so if you dissagree, then speak your perception to help my reality become 'more realistic.' I am looking at this from an African-American man(from now on in this post known as Black - shorter key strokes.)

Part 1) "While mental illness does cross most cultures and races I wonder what the prevelance of SA is in say Asians, African American, Hispanics, etc..."

Here it seems we all agree that it is a problem with all races, but most stats appear to deal with these races in American culture and not necessarily from their native land which can be big factor. Since on American soil, we may segragate into 'ethnic' communities, but there is continuous interaction with different races at all levels of life most everywhere in this country so that SA can easily happen at anytime between folks of different race. The public and private daycare & schools are examples.

Part 2) "What relevance does race/ethnicity have in dealing with SA in men?"

I think that race/ethnicity plays a large part in recovery efforts of SA in men. For example, 15 years ago it seemed that 'counseling' became an OK thing to do and it was socially acceptable to have a counselor (hint the rise in the number of therapists). However, that was for the mainstream, media focused surveys result readers which to me appeared to be native born Caucasian Americans. On the other hand, in the Black community, counseling and therapy has not been embraced yet but has made tremendous strides in recent years. With that said, I know that the counseling staff and support groups are there, but it is part of the answer. The other is how involved you are in your culture and what type of support you get from your family and friends. Therapy is wonderful, but I think that SA issues need to be dealt with inside and outside of the 'counseling' office. Because with the SA comes a lot more than being violated physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. While it robs you of innocence and childhood, it also deposits a wealth of garbage, improper thoughts, and many heavy burdens into your core being that is not meant for anyone to carry - even more so a child that can't even articulate it. I am speaking from my Black history and it is like I am in this alone as far as family and friends are concerned. I have many White friends which are wonderful, but when you have a living family of origin that can't seem to acknowledge SA, therapy, or even why you have close friends of another race, it is like another type of abuse that I'll call "cultural abuse." I believe the image of a Black man seeking counseling is even more foreign in the mainstream Black community. My White friends are much more accepting of therapy and are very encouraging of my journey. It is tough for the White friends to identify with how my family thinks, feel, or believe even though we all are Christians. My family ties are 'strong' but not very close on my personal matters and I can not say that my community, job, social life, or church life is ever totally in the Black community. All of my adult life for work, job, church, and friends has been in predominately White groups. So, even though I am attempting to become a whole person. It is like dealing with 2 different worlds which I can't understand why they won't come together.


Part 3) "Do American born ethnics have more or less ablility to deal with issues of abuse than their foreign born brothers?"

I would refer back to Part 2 about how they interact in society in America. If they are totally involved with their ethnic cultures and that cultures ways, then it is very hard to tell. But if they open to a lot of the mainstream American ways then the avenues of getting assistance is there, however how they 'deal' with it may depend on how they hold onto their cultural ideas.


I know I did not give this response justice in my thoughts but it is a very tough subject and very subjective to a persons life.

thanks

 

[Lloydy]

I wonder also just how much stereotyping of racial groups, especially amongst young men, affect the way SA is dealt with ?

Certainly here in the UK there is a gowing trend for young males to stick within their racial groups more, and the influence of targetted media seems to push a small, and probably ill proportioned, vision of how that group 'should' act and behave. The gangsta rappers for example have become huge role models for many black youths. And how many wannabee gangsta rappers are going to admit to being victims of SA - or having therapy. It's not going to happen, not publicly anyway, they have a hard man macho image to protect.

Possibly the superb TV series "The Soprano's" will do something to dispell the myth of therapy being for "girls". The lead character Tony is a hard mafia man, but still needs therapy. But he keeps it private, and those that have discovered his secret pour scorn on him for being weak.

Only when getting help is seen as the cool option will things change.
But a lot of young men seem to be going the opposite way, insulating themselves in their version of an ethnic group and worshipping the hard man.

Dave

 

[Marc]

Bless you all!!!

This is exactly what I wanted to represent in this post and the questions that need to be asked and addressed if we are to end this epidemic.