Questions For Survivors
Questions For Survivors
- Thread starterTabor
- Start date
Tabor,
You do have a lot of good questions. I'll try to answer as best I can.
Best I can offer. Hope it helps some.
Joe
You do have a lot of good questions. I'll try to answer as best I can.
Listen. Don't disbelieve, don't judge, don't evaluate, don't solve, don't fix. Just listen. A lot.
Not usually. Sometimes I do need to be alone, but that's not when I push my wife away. When I push I want to see if she notices how much I'm hurting.
N/A in my case. More often, I send emails.
Yes. Why wouldn't she? Everyone else did, and none of them are as smart as she is. If they could figure it out, so could she.
Listen. Lots.
Best I can offer. Hope it helps some.
Joe
Thanks, Outis!
I love the candor that comes with these posts! Both you & Roland are very brave!
I am wondering - I do not read the MS threads unless specifically invited... is there any way to issue an invitation to the other guys who post there to come & visit us here at F&F more often???
I love the candor that comes with these posts! Both you & Roland are very brave!
I am wondering - I do not read the MS threads unless specifically invited... is there any way to issue an invitation to the other guys who post there to come & visit us here at F&F more often???
ConcernedGal
Registrant
Great questions since they pertain to me also.
I'm currently in a frustrated place with my friend. I really still consider him my boyfriend, but he seems to feel very little after our break-up in early December so I think we're only friends.
I love the answers so far, but I'm in a situation where he will not even discuss anything with me. I feel completely ignored even though I want to go the distance with him. He just isn't doing anything for me support him on. We live three states away from each other, so that makes it harder and makes me have to try harder since I'm not in close proximity. I actually believe he wants me to go away and stop bugging him even though I try not to push too much. I feel like I'm obsessed because I'm frustrated at being ignored. I've tried ending it twice before but we always seem to hash things out and continue to stay connected, yet he will not discuss anything with me. It's as if he's trying to fulfill his own prophesy of me abandoning him as he pushes me away. It's insanity to me.
Sorry Tabor...I think I hijacked your topic. Just ignore my rantings.
I'm currently in a frustrated place with my friend. I really still consider him my boyfriend, but he seems to feel very little after our break-up in early December so I think we're only friends.
I love the answers so far, but I'm in a situation where he will not even discuss anything with me. I feel completely ignored even though I want to go the distance with him. He just isn't doing anything for me support him on. We live three states away from each other, so that makes it harder and makes me have to try harder since I'm not in close proximity. I actually believe he wants me to go away and stop bugging him even though I try not to push too much. I feel like I'm obsessed because I'm frustrated at being ignored. I've tried ending it twice before but we always seem to hash things out and continue to stay connected, yet he will not discuss anything with me. It's as if he's trying to fulfill his own prophesy of me abandoning him as he pushes me away. It's insanity to me.
Sorry Tabor...I think I hijacked your topic. Just ignore my rantings.
Hi Curtis!!!
Your story is incredibly inspiring!
You can find the "can of worms" if you go back a few months ago into some of the old threads: most of us, I feel reasonably safe in saying, are happy to have re-sealed the can & tossed it somewhere very deep & dark... where the worms are happy & where the rest of us don't usually meet up with them.... EEEEEWWWWWW!!! Slimy, yukky things!!!
Seriously - I think the common resolve was that we ALL want to preserve the site as a place for healing men & for helping the partners of the healing men.
Accordingly - if there is any man who may feel uncomfortable with having women view his posts, then I think it has been the consensus of the F&F community to want to refrain from doing so.
Nevertheless, it is ALWAYS invaluable for us to have the comments of the healing men!!! As you point out so cogently, what we may learn here could very well be important to another male survivor... SO! PULL-EASE, Guys, if you are reading this: come & visit with us more often & let US know what's on your minds....
Thanks!!!
Your story is incredibly inspiring!
You can find the "can of worms" if you go back a few months ago into some of the old threads: most of us, I feel reasonably safe in saying, are happy to have re-sealed the can & tossed it somewhere very deep & dark... where the worms are happy & where the rest of us don't usually meet up with them.... EEEEEWWWWWW!!! Slimy, yukky things!!!
Seriously - I think the common resolve was that we ALL want to preserve the site as a place for healing men & for helping the partners of the healing men.
Accordingly - if there is any man who may feel uncomfortable with having women view his posts, then I think it has been the consensus of the F&F community to want to refrain from doing so.
Nevertheless, it is ALWAYS invaluable for us to have the comments of the healing men!!! As you point out so cogently, what we may learn here could very well be important to another male survivor... SO! PULL-EASE, Guys, if you are reading this: come & visit with us more often & let US know what's on your minds....
Thanks!!!
Tabor - Thank you for asking. Anytime someone tries a little harder to understand, I feel it is a privilege to share. I find these to be good questions that deserve well-thought out answers, so I will do my best. Pardon me all if this turns out to be lengthy.
I don't always know what I want from my partners or friends or family. What I do know is that I want them to be there for me unconditionally. I want them to understand that the mistakes I've made in life, sometimes at their expense, were not intentional or malicious. I want them to know that I often acted in ways that I didn't understand either. But, as I move through my recovery, I am beginning to see how I behave, how I react to things and, maybe, how to change my reactions and behaviors.
When we push you away, I think it is probably an unconscious challenge to see if you'll stay. However, sometimes it is conscious. Like everyone else (maybe even more so) we need our space and a break from the intensity of it all.
Your emails are appreciated but there are times when I don't have the energy to respond. Or, more likely, your message was cheery and light, a simple, well-intended "How're ya doin?", when I really don't want to let you know. I regularly try to protect those close to me by not sharing my bad day because it doesn't have to be their bad day too. I'm sorry if you feel hurt that I haven't responded, that was exactly what I was trying to avoid, hurting you (funny how I personalized this). So do this, try not to read into it either way. Your friend appreciates your effort to keep in touch, he just might not feel inclined to respond in kind.
When you distance yourself, we may not understand why, so we should ask. I try not to make assumptions about why people do the things they do. I do know that people need to distance themselves not necessarily from me, but from what I'm experiencing. It tends to be exhausting and, sometimes tedious. I know that, unfortunately it's more difficult for me to get away from myself than it is for you to get away from me. I envy your ability to do that.
You can reinforce your support simply by gently reminding us that you are there and will continue to be there when we need you... when we need you. Please, not when you want us to need you or when you need to be needed or when you think we need you, okay?
You feel that communication is lacking on his end. He might feel that it is adequate. Follow his lead, that's the only way to know what to do. We all do this at a different pace. We can't always decide what that pace is.
I hope this and the other responses have been helpful. And, as usual, this was a good exercise for me. It helps me see what I'm doing and offers some insight into what's going on with those around me and how I affect them.
And, finally, Victims No Longer by Mike Lew is an excellent book that will help you to see things from your friend's perspective and to understand his experience more clearly.
Most likely it is the former. I've read some of your previous posts and get the impression that you are close friends. If he had the answers he would probably share them. But we don't always know. Oftentimes the questions we are asked are about things we may not have previously considered. If he doesn't have the answer at that moment, offer to ask again after he's had time to think about it. Of course there is also the possibility that he refuses to answer because the subject is too painful. Assure him that you will not judge, that your only intention is to offer support and an open mind.
I don't always know what I want from my partners or friends or family. What I do know is that I want them to be there for me unconditionally. I want them to understand that the mistakes I've made in life, sometimes at their expense, were not intentional or malicious. I want them to know that I often acted in ways that I didn't understand either. But, as I move through my recovery, I am beginning to see how I behave, how I react to things and, maybe, how to change my reactions and behaviors.
When we push you away, I think it is probably an unconscious challenge to see if you'll stay. However, sometimes it is conscious. Like everyone else (maybe even more so) we need our space and a break from the intensity of it all.
Your emails are appreciated but there are times when I don't have the energy to respond. Or, more likely, your message was cheery and light, a simple, well-intended "How're ya doin?", when I really don't want to let you know. I regularly try to protect those close to me by not sharing my bad day because it doesn't have to be their bad day too. I'm sorry if you feel hurt that I haven't responded, that was exactly what I was trying to avoid, hurting you (funny how I personalized this). So do this, try not to read into it either way. Your friend appreciates your effort to keep in touch, he just might not feel inclined to respond in kind.
When you distance yourself, we may not understand why, so we should ask. I try not to make assumptions about why people do the things they do. I do know that people need to distance themselves not necessarily from me, but from what I'm experiencing. It tends to be exhausting and, sometimes tedious. I know that, unfortunately it's more difficult for me to get away from myself than it is for you to get away from me. I envy your ability to do that.
You can reinforce your support simply by gently reminding us that you are there and will continue to be there when we need you... when we need you. Please, not when you want us to need you or when you need to be needed or when you think we need you, okay?
You feel that communication is lacking on his end. He might feel that it is adequate. Follow his lead, that's the only way to know what to do. We all do this at a different pace. We can't always decide what that pace is.
I hope this and the other responses have been helpful. And, as usual, this was a good exercise for me. It helps me see what I'm doing and offers some insight into what's going on with those around me and how I affect them.
And, finally, Victims No Longer by Mike Lew is an excellent book that will help you to see things from your friend's perspective and to understand his experience more clearly.
Hey Sinking!
Some of your remarks really had an impact on me...
You wrote some of your post in the 1st person & then seemed to notice your own style...
"(funny how I personalized this)," you wrote. But this truly made such a difference for me - and, I would think, for the other Sisters here too: we are so accustomed to silence that sometimes it is very difficult to "hear what our Loved One is not saying..."
You also wrote -
"You can reinforce your support simply by gently reminding us that you are there and will continue to be there when we need you... when we need you. Please, not when you want us to need you or when you need to be needed or when you think we need you, okay?"
Sigh.
How I tried & tried & tried... but ultimately, as a survivor myself, I found that I had needs too
You are quite, quite right, though - it is faaaar too maternal/ overbearing for us to attempt to "be there" when we THINK our Loved One needs us: that approach can be suffocating.
SO. Now I am having a personal quandry. I have been out of touch with my friend for over a month now - and I truly believe he understands WHY I had to take a break, but I have a feeling that he "knows" only on an intellectual level. I think he may be feeling a bit betrayed by my disappearance. I miss HIM terribly, but I don't miss his behavior/ aloofness. My head tells me that I am safer being by myself, but my heart & spirit feel diminished by being out of touch. He has a birthday next week & I am thinking of getting in contact again, but am very frightened of starting up the whole mess again...
Some of your remarks really had an impact on me...
You wrote some of your post in the 1st person & then seemed to notice your own style...
"(funny how I personalized this)," you wrote. But this truly made such a difference for me - and, I would think, for the other Sisters here too: we are so accustomed to silence that sometimes it is very difficult to "hear what our Loved One is not saying..."
You also wrote -
"You can reinforce your support simply by gently reminding us that you are there and will continue to be there when we need you... when we need you. Please, not when you want us to need you or when you need to be needed or when you think we need you, okay?"
Sigh.
How I tried & tried & tried... but ultimately, as a survivor myself, I found that I had needs too
You are quite, quite right, though - it is faaaar too maternal/ overbearing for us to attempt to "be there" when we THINK our Loved One needs us: that approach can be suffocating.
SO. Now I am having a personal quandry. I have been out of touch with my friend for over a month now - and I truly believe he understands WHY I had to take a break, but I have a feeling that he "knows" only on an intellectual level. I think he may be feeling a bit betrayed by my disappearance. I miss HIM terribly, but I don't miss his behavior/ aloofness. My head tells me that I am safer being by myself, but my heart & spirit feel diminished by being out of touch. He has a birthday next week & I am thinking of getting in contact again, but am very frightened of starting up the whole mess again...
ConcernedGal
Registrant
Kolisha:
My thoughts exactly! All of it is the same as with me. Thank you for putting it into words for me. Weird....my survivor has a birthday coming up next week also (3/13).
SINKING:
Thank you so much for your very helpful insights and honesty. Hearing it from a survivor helps us supporters very much.
Because I'm so far away from my survivor I feel so left out of his life. Being only human, and wanting to be there for him unconditionally, it's very hard to hang in there when he doesn't tell me that he needs me. For all I know he could really care less if I stay or if I go. He has stated, very impersonally sometimes that he's glad I'm in his life. Hard to know on a day to day basis as I try to interact with him.
My thoughts exactly! All of it is the same as with me. Thank you for putting it into words for me. Weird....my survivor has a birthday coming up next week also (3/13).
SINKING:
Thank you so much for your very helpful insights and honesty. Hearing it from a survivor helps us supporters very much.
Because I'm so far away from my survivor I feel so left out of his life. Being only human, and wanting to be there for him unconditionally, it's very hard to hang in there when he doesn't tell me that he needs me. For all I know he could really care less if I stay or if I go. He has stated, very impersonally sometimes that he's glad I'm in his life. Hard to know on a day to day basis as I try to interact with him.
How does one know when we should offer to ask again without it becoming a push? That's my confusion. If he doesn't acknowledge my questions, or share any kind of thoughts, I find it hard to gauge him for a good time to readdress the questions to him. I think he's definitely in the "not able to respond" mode.
The need for space is very understandable, especially for my survivor (I call him mine because I love him very much) since he's just starting out. I actually don't want to push because he's in intense school until the end of May. I would love to "stay" if he would only let me in a little bit. He doesn't want to see me, or talk about any of this. I'm his ICON of PAIN because I'm the one who was the catalyst that started the pain bubbling up. Maybe because deep down he knows he safe with me? Because I had my own recovery experiences and lots of therapy over the years? I just don't know.
Hello everyone.
There is a lot in this thread and I don't think I can respond to all of it. But I would like to start by saying,
Sinking,
A lot of survivors, (and now I am going to personalize this), even the ones who push at and test their loved ones, still LOVE their loved ones and don't really intend to hurt them. Therefore, they (I) don't say this really important thing that needs to be said. I know how hurtful it is to tell my boyfriend to go away sometimes, and I know how much he "needs to be needed" at the time, so I just grit my teeth and let him hug me even though every muscle in my body wants to push him off. Or I sit there "listening" but really I just can't think of a nice way to say, "Thanks, but no thanks."
This is NOT during his bad times, even when his issues are triggering me I am able to remain calm and loving and give him what he needs. This is about when I'm having a bad day and don't want to make it any worse by hurting the feelings of my boyfriend, who I know is reaching so far out of the depths of his own hurt to give me something, it's like I don't feel I have the right to refuse it.
Come on now, people, we all know the "not-listening" signals. We all know the glazed eyes, twitchy fingers, unmotivated changing of the subject, and we all know that they really mean "I'm not really a part of this conversation." If your friend didn't care about you, he would probably say exactly how he felt without worrying about whether or not it was hurting you. Sometimes silence is a WAY of caring.
Everyone in the world wants to be left alone and not bugged sometimes. For people who are finally learning how to be alone with their thoughts, maybe they want it more than usual. It hurts to have to ask for time alone sometimes. Any other parents out there who have had to finish a shower listening to a teary kid waiting for them on the other side of the door know what I'm talking about. But ALL people, kids, adults, survivors, partners, go through stages of learning about empathy and the needs of others. As a kid this is about letting mom shower and pay the bills without trying to break stuff to get attention.
Maybe as adults this is about really trying to live our lives in accordance with the knowledge that we all say we possess--that when it comes to ourselves, we have to think of ourselves and our needs, but when it comes to others, we have to hold off thinking about ourselves and our needs?
Many of us DO feel guilty caring for ourselves, putting ourselves first. Why should it be any other way, when so many of us were taught that this was "bad" "inconsiderate" "naughty" "not allowed" "selfish" etc? WHY do you feel guilty putting yourself first? I think that should be the question. Where did that come from? Who benefitted from you NOT putting yourself first? I think THIS is the way to getting rid of that guilt. If you have felt guilty about this since childhood (and I think most of us have to some degree) then getting "permission" from a friend, partner, MS member, or anyone else to go ahead and put yourself first is not going to alleviate your guilt. Let yourself put yourself first. Think about why you didn't do it in the first place and whether or not those reasons still apply to you.
End of rant. Have a peaceful and fun weekend all,
SAR
There is a lot in this thread and I don't think I can respond to all of it. But I would like to start by saying,
Sinking,
YOU ROCK. I don't think I could have found a nicer way to say that, and it really really needs to be said.
A lot of survivors, (and now I am going to personalize this), even the ones who push at and test their loved ones, still LOVE their loved ones and don't really intend to hurt them. Therefore, they (I) don't say this really important thing that needs to be said. I know how hurtful it is to tell my boyfriend to go away sometimes, and I know how much he "needs to be needed" at the time, so I just grit my teeth and let him hug me even though every muscle in my body wants to push him off. Or I sit there "listening" but really I just can't think of a nice way to say, "Thanks, but no thanks."
This is NOT during his bad times, even when his issues are triggering me I am able to remain calm and loving and give him what he needs. This is about when I'm having a bad day and don't want to make it any worse by hurting the feelings of my boyfriend, who I know is reaching so far out of the depths of his own hurt to give me something, it's like I don't feel I have the right to refuse it.
Come on now, people, we all know the "not-listening" signals. We all know the glazed eyes, twitchy fingers, unmotivated changing of the subject, and we all know that they really mean "I'm not really a part of this conversation." If your friend didn't care about you, he would probably say exactly how he felt without worrying about whether or not it was hurting you. Sometimes silence is a WAY of caring.
Everyone in the world wants to be left alone and not bugged sometimes. For people who are finally learning how to be alone with their thoughts, maybe they want it more than usual. It hurts to have to ask for time alone sometimes. Any other parents out there who have had to finish a shower listening to a teary kid waiting for them on the other side of the door know what I'm talking about. But ALL people, kids, adults, survivors, partners, go through stages of learning about empathy and the needs of others. As a kid this is about letting mom shower and pay the bills without trying to break stuff to get attention.
Maybe as adults this is about really trying to live our lives in accordance with the knowledge that we all say we possess--that when it comes to ourselves, we have to think of ourselves and our needs, but when it comes to others, we have to hold off thinking about ourselves and our needs?
Many of us DO feel guilty caring for ourselves, putting ourselves first. Why should it be any other way, when so many of us were taught that this was "bad" "inconsiderate" "naughty" "not allowed" "selfish" etc? WHY do you feel guilty putting yourself first? I think that should be the question. Where did that come from? Who benefitted from you NOT putting yourself first? I think THIS is the way to getting rid of that guilt. If you have felt guilty about this since childhood (and I think most of us have to some degree) then getting "permission" from a friend, partner, MS member, or anyone else to go ahead and put yourself first is not going to alleviate your guilt. Let yourself put yourself first. Think about why you didn't do it in the first place and whether or not those reasons still apply to you.
End of rant. Have a peaceful and fun weekend all,
SAR
Wow, I love when what I have to say has an impact. Even the little things, like answering questions such as those posed, can be affirming. We are a needy group, despite our drive to always be meeting the needs of others. Anyway, I'd like to address some of the comments to me.
Kolisha - I'm glad it made a difference for me to personalize my answer. I'll take the wink you added as a signal to tell my wife some of the things I might not be saying to her. And, of course you have needs too, Survivor or not. I'm just saying that I don't need you when you need me to need you. I can try to be there to address your needs, but I have trouble if you are trying to push me to do or say something that I'm not ready to say. I wish you luck with your quandry. Please be careful not to set yourself up for disappointment.
ConcernedGal - I'm sorry to hear that your friend is as aloof as he is. Maybe, as I stated before, he is testing your loyalty and dedication to see if you will hang on. But this is unfair to you. While I don't suggest that you should push him to address issues he's not ready to address, I think it is fair for you to ask him, point-blank, whether or not he wants you around and, if so, in what capacity. Which leads me to the second part of your post where you ask when is it okay to ask again. It's not. But it is okay to remind him that you are there if and when he ever gets around to addressing his issues. If you do push, you run the risk of him resenting you for not allowing him the space he needs. If all of this means that his needs and feelings take precedence over yours and you're just waiting in the wings for him to come around, you should probably reassess your relationship. One very important thing you mention is the stress he is experiencing with school. It could be that he can handle only so much at one time. School is of high priority for him right now, not something that is as easy to put aside as the effects of childhood sexual abuse. We are all very well versed in hiding from that and oftentimes need to. That could be what you are witnessing. With all of these things in mind, take care of yourself first, because if you don't, you're no good to him or yourself.
Tabor I'm glad I made you cry. What I really mean is, I'm glad I was able to touch a nerve and make you feel better about how your friend has been communicating, or not. Of course your feelings matter, probably more to your friend than you realize. But we aren't always good at expressing how we feel, many of us are just now learning how to feel and it's pretty foreign and pretty weird. Have patience.
SAR - Thanks for saying I rock. \
/ I read and then re-read your 'rant'. All I can say is compromise. While you feel you are sacrificing your own feelings in deference to your boyfriend, assume that he does the same for you. We all do. And if you can find the ability to do it at that moment, then do it. I know I do and I get through it every time, unless it's something heated or escalating, then it's time to bow out.
This has been, as I said before, a very healthy exercise for me. I see things I may be doing, saying, not saying, that I will try to work on or stop or continue, whichever fits. So thank you all, especially Tabor for starting the thread.
Kolisha - I'm glad it made a difference for me to personalize my answer. I'll take the wink you added as a signal to tell my wife some of the things I might not be saying to her. And, of course you have needs too, Survivor or not. I'm just saying that I don't need you when you need me to need you. I can try to be there to address your needs, but I have trouble if you are trying to push me to do or say something that I'm not ready to say. I wish you luck with your quandry. Please be careful not to set yourself up for disappointment.
ConcernedGal - I'm sorry to hear that your friend is as aloof as he is. Maybe, as I stated before, he is testing your loyalty and dedication to see if you will hang on. But this is unfair to you. While I don't suggest that you should push him to address issues he's not ready to address, I think it is fair for you to ask him, point-blank, whether or not he wants you around and, if so, in what capacity. Which leads me to the second part of your post where you ask when is it okay to ask again. It's not. But it is okay to remind him that you are there if and when he ever gets around to addressing his issues. If you do push, you run the risk of him resenting you for not allowing him the space he needs. If all of this means that his needs and feelings take precedence over yours and you're just waiting in the wings for him to come around, you should probably reassess your relationship. One very important thing you mention is the stress he is experiencing with school. It could be that he can handle only so much at one time. School is of high priority for him right now, not something that is as easy to put aside as the effects of childhood sexual abuse. We are all very well versed in hiding from that and oftentimes need to. That could be what you are witnessing. With all of these things in mind, take care of yourself first, because if you don't, you're no good to him or yourself.
Tabor I'm glad I made you cry.
What I really mean is, I'm glad I was able to touch a nerve and make you feel better about how your friend has been communicating, or not. Of course your feelings matter, probably more to your friend than you realize. But we aren't always good at expressing how we feel, many of us are just now learning how to feel and it's pretty foreign and pretty weird. Have patience. SAR - Thanks for saying I rock. \
/ I read and then re-read your 'rant'. All I can say is compromise. While you feel you are sacrificing your own feelings in deference to your boyfriend, assume that he does the same for you. We all do. And if you can find the ability to do it at that moment, then do it. I know I do and I get through it every time, unless it's something heated or escalating, then it's time to bow out.This has been, as I said before, a very healthy exercise for me. I see things I may be doing, saying, not saying, that I will try to work on or stop or continue, whichever fits. So thank you all, especially Tabor for starting the thread.
ConcernedGal
Registrant
Sinking:
Yes! You have helped me tremendously as I'm sure you did the others. We are a passionate, caring, loving bunch of supporters. I wish I was married to my survivor, like so many on this board, but I don't see him ever wanting that anymore.
He called me tonight and we had a long talk, but he was "spent" after we were done and I had dried all my tears.
I was trying to ask for something little. Some kind of simple schedule that would help me to feel a part of, instead of feeling discounted. He is just not "feeling" right now for good reason I'm sure, but I'm so emotional sometimes that I feel I'm not a good supporter at all. I'm trying so hard to understand and to love him unconditionally, but it's crazy making. I told him I want him to go into therapy NOW and get fixed NOW. We both laughed.
He agreed to two things that I came up with (literally-at the moment):
On Friday nights I can send him an e-mail with something having to do with his issues (a chapter that I re-typed from a survivor/supporter book, an e-mail with my thoughts or questions, or maybe a post from this site that I feel might be encouraging or informational) and on Sunday nights we will talk on the phone about fun non-issue stuff as he enjoys talking to me still. I think that will make things easier than me always forwarding stuff and him reading it when he can absorb it. Most of the time he reads it then just closes it, never to think about it again.
He was so kind to me tonight and has always treated me with respect. But, I'm now feeling like I bruised him with our hour long talk. He said he was going to go to bed and didn't seem very up any more. I feel so bad.....but I had to ask for something. I gave him the option to tell me to just go away. Truly, I would have understood. But he admitted that it was best for him to have me in his life, albeit on a limited basis, but he didn't think it was good for me to stay around because I can't get what I need. He also feels that I'm a reminder of how much he hurt me. He feels bad about our break-up.
Yes, his schooling is a lot for him and I have to remember that. He works very hard and deserves some peace right now. We've been on a long and winding roller coaster for 3 months. Especially me, since I'm the emotional nutcase who can't let go. I wish I could, but I can't. Is God keeping me here?
Something little gives me hope, when I maybe shouldn't have any? Early in our relationship last year I had sent him a picture of me on a pony when I was about 4 or 5. You know, the pictures of those ponies that come around your neighborhood? Well, he had a picture of the same thing when he was the same age and put them both into a frame and kept it on his stereo speaker in the living room. I just had to ask him about it and he says it's still there. That just meant so much to me, ya' know? I have become certifiable haven't I?
Jeez, this is hard for everyone. I can't imagine what it's like for the survivors. God bless your little hearts, all of you.
I hope I haven't hurt him. He such a doll baby. He said I'm f*&king making him crazy. We laughed about that, but I know I've been too needy since our breakup. He's just the best man, so please say a prayer for us. (How selfish of me). OK then, say a prayer for him (still selfish of me)
Going to bed, it's been an emotional week.
God bless you b-friend. Have fun hiking tomorrow.
Yes! You have helped me tremendously as I'm sure you did the others. We are a passionate, caring, loving bunch of supporters. I wish I was married to my survivor, like so many on this board, but I don't see him ever wanting that anymore.
He called me tonight and we had a long talk, but he was "spent" after we were done and I had dried all my tears.
I was trying to ask for something little. Some kind of simple schedule that would help me to feel a part of, instead of feeling discounted. He is just not "feeling" right now for good reason I'm sure, but I'm so emotional sometimes that I feel I'm not a good supporter at all. I'm trying so hard to understand and to love him unconditionally, but it's crazy making. I told him I want him to go into therapy NOW and get fixed NOW. We both laughed.
He agreed to two things that I came up with (literally-at the moment):
On Friday nights I can send him an e-mail with something having to do with his issues (a chapter that I re-typed from a survivor/supporter book, an e-mail with my thoughts or questions, or maybe a post from this site that I feel might be encouraging or informational) and on Sunday nights we will talk on the phone about fun non-issue stuff as he enjoys talking to me still. I think that will make things easier than me always forwarding stuff and him reading it when he can absorb it. Most of the time he reads it then just closes it, never to think about it again.
He was so kind to me tonight and has always treated me with respect. But, I'm now feeling like I bruised him with our hour long talk. He said he was going to go to bed and didn't seem very up any more. I feel so bad.....but I had to ask for something. I gave him the option to tell me to just go away. Truly, I would have understood. But he admitted that it was best for him to have me in his life, albeit on a limited basis, but he didn't think it was good for me to stay around because I can't get what I need. He also feels that I'm a reminder of how much he hurt me. He feels bad about our break-up.
Yes, his schooling is a lot for him and I have to remember that. He works very hard and deserves some peace right now. We've been on a long and winding roller coaster for 3 months. Especially me, since I'm the emotional nutcase who can't let go. I wish I could, but I can't. Is God keeping me here?
Something little gives me hope, when I maybe shouldn't have any? Early in our relationship last year I had sent him a picture of me on a pony when I was about 4 or 5. You know, the pictures of those ponies that come around your neighborhood? Well, he had a picture of the same thing when he was the same age and put them both into a frame and kept it on his stereo speaker in the living room. I just had to ask him about it and he says it's still there. That just meant so much to me, ya' know? I have become certifiable haven't I?
Jeez, this is hard for everyone. I can't imagine what it's like for the survivors. God bless your little hearts, all of you.
I hope I haven't hurt him. He such a doll baby. He said I'm f*&king making him crazy. We laughed about that, but I know I've been too needy since our breakup. He's just the best man, so please say a prayer for us. (How selfish of me). OK then, say a prayer for him (still selfish of me)
Going to bed, it's been an emotional week.
God bless you b-friend. Have fun hiking tomorrow.
ConcernedGal
Registrant
One more thing...
I think I'm going to try and find an Alanon meeting for Incest Survivors Anonymous if they have such a thing.
One for the supporters.....
If anyone knows of these, let me know. I'll also look on the web.
I think I'm going to try and find an Alanon meeting for Incest Survivors Anonymous if they have such a thing.
One for the supporters.....
If anyone knows of these, let me know. I'll also look on the web.
ConcernedGal
Registrant
Goodbye and Thanks:
Cancel all of the above. He just completely ended all communications today. It seems the conversation above was too over the top for him and he wants me to find another man. It's just too hard for him to offer me anything but a casual friendship.
So, I'm movin' on folks. Good luck to you all. I've had enough of all this for awhile. I actually had some plans for my immediate future and look forward to a fresh start. Don't know what all this past year was suppose to have meant, or what meaning it played in my life, but I hope some good comes out of it somewhere.
Thanks for all your wonderful input, and support, in spite of it all. It's been an "E" ticket ride, that's for sure.
No Longer "ConfusedGal"....
Cancel all of the above. He just completely ended all communications today. It seems the conversation above was too over the top for him and he wants me to find another man. It's just too hard for him to offer me anything but a casual friendship.
So, I'm movin' on folks. Good luck to you all. I've had enough of all this for awhile. I actually had some plans for my immediate future and look forward to a fresh start. Don't know what all this past year was suppose to have meant, or what meaning it played in my life, but I hope some good comes out of it somewhere.
Thanks for all your wonderful input, and support, in spite of it all. It's been an "E" ticket ride, that's for sure.
No Longer "ConfusedGal"....
What is it that you want from your partners/friends?
Well, that is a hard thing to answer. Because, speaking for myself, I do not always know, what I want, what I need, or anything such as that. I think what most survivors will want is safety, consistency, attempts at understanding when understanding is impossible, and realizing that sometime, yes, understanding IS impossible. To say 'I understand' if you don't or can't, that is not support, that is patronizing. But to attempt to empathize, that is a good and loving thing.
When you push us away, do you really want us to go?
Want you to go? No, not usually. Expect you to, yes, probably. Because a lot of survivors were abused by adults they should have felt trust and safety with, I think most of us have abandonment problems also. And, oftentimes, we feel we do not deserve good people in our lives.
Do you appreciate the emails we send just to say hello and that we care, and when you don't respond does it occur to you that maybe it hurts us that we"ve been ignored?
Yes, they are appreciated, greatly, speaking for myself. And sometime, there will be days before I able to get online, or days before I will be able to have the energy to respond to emails, or to posts here at the forum. And I feel very guilty for it taking that time. I am lucky, that the people who are most important to me and have been going through all this with me, they understand my schedule, and also my emotions. I have apologized many times for taking time to respond, and I think they all know now that it is NOT something personal against them. Still, when I have not responded within a day, I will still apologize, but I know more now that the person understands, and they know me enough that they do not feel ignored or hurt, as they know I will respond when I can.
If we do distance ourselves do you feel that we're giving up on you?
Everyone, even the physically and mentally healthiest person, needs distance and space from stress. Speaking for myself, I understand that, and my girlfriend and I do that on a pretty regular basis right now, for both our sake. On occasion, I will become much more insecure and worry of someone leaving me, but I will ask them. I will make that worry be known, and usually we will talk it out.
Is there anything we can do to reinforce that we're on your side?
It is a hard question to answer. Because, in a way, I think we want to be treated the way we always were, because we are the same person, and do not wish the abuse to be identified as a self entity. But, of course, we can not be treated fully the same, because our behaviors and emotions are some different. I think we want to make sure that people are not going to degrade their relations with us based on the abuse. I think as long as it is a good relationship, based on honesty and respect, it will remain as such.
Good luck with your friend.
Leosha
Well, that is a hard thing to answer. Because, speaking for myself, I do not always know, what I want, what I need, or anything such as that. I think what most survivors will want is safety, consistency, attempts at understanding when understanding is impossible, and realizing that sometime, yes, understanding IS impossible. To say 'I understand' if you don't or can't, that is not support, that is patronizing. But to attempt to empathize, that is a good and loving thing.
When you push us away, do you really want us to go?
Want you to go? No, not usually. Expect you to, yes, probably. Because a lot of survivors were abused by adults they should have felt trust and safety with, I think most of us have abandonment problems also. And, oftentimes, we feel we do not deserve good people in our lives.
Do you appreciate the emails we send just to say hello and that we care, and when you don't respond does it occur to you that maybe it hurts us that we"ve been ignored?
Yes, they are appreciated, greatly, speaking for myself. And sometime, there will be days before I able to get online, or days before I will be able to have the energy to respond to emails, or to posts here at the forum. And I feel very guilty for it taking that time. I am lucky, that the people who are most important to me and have been going through all this with me, they understand my schedule, and also my emotions. I have apologized many times for taking time to respond, and I think they all know now that it is NOT something personal against them. Still, when I have not responded within a day, I will still apologize, but I know more now that the person understands, and they know me enough that they do not feel ignored or hurt, as they know I will respond when I can.
If we do distance ourselves do you feel that we're giving up on you?
Everyone, even the physically and mentally healthiest person, needs distance and space from stress. Speaking for myself, I understand that, and my girlfriend and I do that on a pretty regular basis right now, for both our sake. On occasion, I will become much more insecure and worry of someone leaving me, but I will ask them. I will make that worry be known, and usually we will talk it out.
Is there anything we can do to reinforce that we're on your side?
It is a hard question to answer. Because, in a way, I think we want to be treated the way we always were, because we are the same person, and do not wish the abuse to be identified as a self entity. But, of course, we can not be treated fully the same, because our behaviors and emotions are some different. I think we want to make sure that people are not going to degrade their relations with us based on the abuse. I think as long as it is a good relationship, based on honesty and respect, it will remain as such.
Good luck with your friend.
Leosha
It's a shame that ConcernedGal has come to the end of her 'one sided' relationship, but I still want to thank her for for all the love and support that she gave. But in the end some Survivors push someone away one time too many.
It's a balancing act of making ourselves 'victims and martyrs' once again and letting someone into our lives on a sharing basis - something I knew NOTHING about.
We think we're so bad and beyond hope, why would anyone want to be with us anyway ?
That's a great feeling when you're really down and feeling like shit ! It just pushes us further down into the pity-pit so we never see anything else.
And that's a place we know all too well, it's where we are before we become Survivors, or at least active Survivors that are somehow struggling to regain what we never had.
And if we get the balance 'right' and push away just enough then out loved ones come back to us, and I also developed the wonderful technique of transferring ALL the blame onto my wife, which made her 'return' all the better. It was on my terms, and that was a powerful feeling of control over someone else.
Something I knew all about, from being on the receiving end during the abuse.
So turning it around made me feel good, never mind the expense !
This thread has so much good stuff in it that I've forgotton some of what I was going to say, but I do know that I would be in agreement with the other guys.
The abuse is more about power than sex, I'm convinced of that, so suffering a major abuse of power along with the conflicting and unknown sexual experiences that go with it is a major mind f**k !
Most of the normal things we should have learned as kids and young men were lost, the social skills, sense of 'right and wrong', sexual morals, and so much more all went out the window.
I think it was Sinking who said that "we just don't know" and he's right. When we're faced with a problem or dilemma we freeze like startled deer, "hey, did you see ball game ?" suddenly becomes the answer to "do you want to talk about it ?"
Sometimes I wonder how any of you put up with us, it can't be just because we're handsome !
Dave
And this is just what we do, I did it for years and just about got away with it, but it was close.
It's a balancing act of making ourselves 'victims and martyrs' once again and letting someone into our lives on a sharing basis - something I knew NOTHING about.
We think we're so bad and beyond hope, why would anyone want to be with us anyway ?
That's a great feeling when you're really down and feeling like shit ! It just pushes us further down into the pity-pit so we never see anything else.
And that's a place we know all too well, it's where we are before we become Survivors, or at least active Survivors that are somehow struggling to regain what we never had.
And if we get the balance 'right' and push away just enough then out loved ones come back to us, and I also developed the wonderful technique of transferring ALL the blame onto my wife, which made her 'return' all the better. It was on my terms, and that was a powerful feeling of control over someone else.
Something I knew all about, from being on the receiving end during the abuse.
So turning it around made me feel good, never mind the expense !
This thread has so much good stuff in it that I've forgotton some of what I was going to say, but I do know that I would be in agreement with the other guys.
The abuse is more about power than sex, I'm convinced of that, so suffering a major abuse of power along with the conflicting and unknown sexual experiences that go with it is a major mind f**k !
Most of the normal things we should have learned as kids and young men were lost, the social skills, sense of 'right and wrong', sexual morals, and so much more all went out the window.
I think it was Sinking who said that "we just don't know" and he's right. When we're faced with a problem or dilemma we freeze like startled deer, "hey, did you see ball game ?" suddenly becomes the answer to "do you want to talk about it ?"
Sometimes I wonder how any of you put up with us, it can't be just because we're handsome !
Dave