question to survivors...why disclose?
question to survivors...why disclose?
- Thread starterCupcake
- Start date
roadrunner
Registrant
Cupcake,
When I disclosed to my parents last November it was something that was at the absolute top of my list of priorities. I had been living with my secret for 42 years, silenced by the threats of the abuser, and silenced so effectively that for most of that time I had no coherent recollection of the abuse. The abuser had also worked hard to cut me off from the support and love of my Dad. He told me the foulest lies about how my father didn't really love me, felt I was a disappointment to him, and would put me into an orphanage if he ever discovered what "we" were doing.
So I had several motives for disclosure. I wanted and needed my family's help, but would not have it unless the two central people in my family - my parents - knew what the problem was. I also felt a compelling need to break the silence. By telling my parents I would be taking a big step towards rejecting the blame for what had happened to me, and I would also be empowering myself for further work towards recovery. Finally, I would be healing the damage done by the abuser to the relationship between my father and me.
I think for most survivors the needs to break the silence and reject blame for the abuse must rank very high among their reasons for disclosing. The two are very closely linked, after all. If the abuse really wasn't my fault, why shouldn't I talk about it? And similarly, if I talk about it that in itself is a way of refusing to accept blame; by disclosing I am pointing to the person who is really at fault.
Much love,
Larry
When I disclosed to my parents last November it was something that was at the absolute top of my list of priorities. I had been living with my secret for 42 years, silenced by the threats of the abuser, and silenced so effectively that for most of that time I had no coherent recollection of the abuse. The abuser had also worked hard to cut me off from the support and love of my Dad. He told me the foulest lies about how my father didn't really love me, felt I was a disappointment to him, and would put me into an orphanage if he ever discovered what "we" were doing.
So I had several motives for disclosure. I wanted and needed my family's help, but would not have it unless the two central people in my family - my parents - knew what the problem was. I also felt a compelling need to break the silence. By telling my parents I would be taking a big step towards rejecting the blame for what had happened to me, and I would also be empowering myself for further work towards recovery. Finally, I would be healing the damage done by the abuser to the relationship between my father and me.
I think for most survivors the needs to break the silence and reject blame for the abuse must rank very high among their reasons for disclosing. The two are very closely linked, after all. If the abuse really wasn't my fault, why shouldn't I talk about it? And similarly, if I talk about it that in itself is a way of refusing to accept blame; by disclosing I am pointing to the person who is really at fault.
Much love,
Larry
If you want to read more on disclosure (and confrontation), check out:
https://www.malesurvivor.org/Survivors/Adult%20Survivors/Articles/singer3.htm
Ken
PS for some reason this page and the survivor's articles section is not working right now. If you can't get it, try later.
https://www.malesurvivor.org/Survivors/Adult%20Survivors/Articles/singer3.htm
Ken
PS for some reason this page and the survivor's articles section is not working right now. If you can't get it, try later.
Thanks, guys. That all makes perfect sense to me. But how about adding this twist to the question...disclosing and never apparently doing anything towards healing (at least not in the present, perhaps having tried in the past)? and what is really expected from the person he disclosed to ???
well if i disclosed and that person didnt run away from me ,then i would be happy,i think that disclosing itself means more than the reaction i would get,it is a hard thing for the person being told because no one knows what to do or say to a victim,sometimes it can be as hard on the person you tell as it is on you.it shows great trust to disclose ,but it puts a heavy burden on the person you tell ,its almost like making them a part of the abuse somehow and expecting them to know what to do or say is asking too much i think
roadrunner
Registrant
Cupcake,
I think many survivors fail to think through what they want from disclosure - this is an issue highlighted very clearly in Ken's article (see above). Clearly the survivor must want something, but it's interesting to see how many times thinking about disclosure isn't accompanied by thinking about what the survivor hopes to achieve or what he would like to see happen next.
And in some cases the disclosing survivor doesn't provide the people he discloses to with enough information (my T called this minimum information a "plausible framework") for these others to process what he is saying and respond effectively. Just saying "I was molested when I was a boy" leaves an awful lot to the imagination, and the startled person hit by such a lightning bolt may not know how or whether to seek further details.
There is also the problem that most folks "out there" don't have any background that would allow them to immediately see what they can best do or say to support the survivor. So I can easily see how things would get stuck once the survivor has disclosed.
If you are in this situation I would react to the survivor by trying to be as supportive as possible and letting him know that you are there for him and want to help. But you really lack any idea of what he needs. The answer will probably be "Nothing" or "I wish I knew", but I think the important thing here is to keep the channels of communication open.
Much love,
Larry
I think many survivors fail to think through what they want from disclosure - this is an issue highlighted very clearly in Ken's article (see above). Clearly the survivor must want something, but it's interesting to see how many times thinking about disclosure isn't accompanied by thinking about what the survivor hopes to achieve or what he would like to see happen next.
And in some cases the disclosing survivor doesn't provide the people he discloses to with enough information (my T called this minimum information a "plausible framework") for these others to process what he is saying and respond effectively. Just saying "I was molested when I was a boy" leaves an awful lot to the imagination, and the startled person hit by such a lightning bolt may not know how or whether to seek further details.
There is also the problem that most folks "out there" don't have any background that would allow them to immediately see what they can best do or say to support the survivor. So I can easily see how things would get stuck once the survivor has disclosed.
If you are in this situation I would react to the survivor by trying to be as supportive as possible and letting him know that you are there for him and want to help. But you really lack any idea of what he needs. The answer will probably be "Nothing" or "I wish I knew", but I think the important thing here is to keep the channels of communication open.
Much love,
Larry
roadrunner
Registrant
Shadow,
Have you read Ken's article? It really does help. Also, have a look at the comments I make about the "plausible framework" in my reply to Cupcake above. My T suggested that this minimum information ought to include who the abuser was (if not the name, then at least the relationship or connection to the survivor), when the abuse began, how long it lasted, and if possible, some idea of "what happened". That last one is rough, but details aren't necessary; when I told my parents I just said that what happened included everything they could imagine and some things they couldn't.
You are right about disclosure being a risk and imposing a burden on the one who gets the disclosure, and sure, I suppose in some cases things could go badly wrong. But I can say that so far I have received nothing but support, though some people, just out of ignorance, have asked some pretty triggery questions in the ensuing discussion.
But here, as in all other important exchanges, understanding has to work both ways.
Much love,
Larry
Have you read Ken's article? It really does help. Also, have a look at the comments I make about the "plausible framework" in my reply to Cupcake above. My T suggested that this minimum information ought to include who the abuser was (if not the name, then at least the relationship or connection to the survivor), when the abuse began, how long it lasted, and if possible, some idea of "what happened". That last one is rough, but details aren't necessary; when I told my parents I just said that what happened included everything they could imagine and some things they couldn't.
You are right about disclosure being a risk and imposing a burden on the one who gets the disclosure, and sure, I suppose in some cases things could go badly wrong. But I can say that so far I have received nothing but support, though some people, just out of ignorance, have asked some pretty triggery questions in the ensuing discussion.
But here, as in all other important exchanges, understanding has to work both ways.
Much love,
Larry
Your insightful is always invaluable, so thank you again. Here is where I am at. My friend disclosed to me years ago, 6 to be exact. It almost goes without saying that I never expected to hear the words that came out of his mouth that night. I have never known a survivor. I am proud to say that my response was supportive. I'm not sure where it came from, but in the moment, I simply asked him the very same questions you suggest are the framework..the who, the how old was he, it only about a year ago that i knew how long it lasted. to this day, no details. i only know what he wants me to know.
so the thing is, when i first learned of this, i immediately began to educate myself, and found you guys here. and so i knew to give him time, because he did retreat for a while (i suspect he didn't know what to expect from me or how i'd react; and maybe needed to adjust). i let him know that it wasn't his fault, and i would be here for whatever support he needed. at that time, i somehow expected we would discuss it again and i would learn more, and maybe he was trying to heal.
but i don't think he is. or maybe he is in his own way. we rarely discuss it, but it's to me the pink elephant in the room. i see it as the source of his insomnia, his depression, and a few other things. i don't know if i can tell him that though. He is smart enough and he knows it himself, i know he does. He did tell me that at one point he did see someone for help, not sure if that was an extended period of therapy or what. i think it gave him all the information he wanted though.
Larry---you said the best thing--and I think it is the perfect thing for me to ask him. "What does he need from me?" Shadow is 100% on point when he says the disclosure does place a burden on me. A burden of not knowing what to do or not do; of maintaining his privacy when all around us I see other people going "what the ???". I know the ???, but can't tell them. It's not for me to tell.
After reading here for so long, I have questions. Would it be appropriate if I asked him these questions:
1) do you think about this every day?
2) do you have triggers like i've read about?
3) do you think you've reached the level of healing you want through therapy?
4) Do you want or see yourself ever having a healthy relationship?
5)what can i do as your friend?
I'm not sure if I am entitled to ask these questions. I still cant' link to Ken's article, which I would like to read eventually. Do you think my questions are OK? This guy is very different to me in his handling of his abuse than what I observe here. Or he's good at hiding from me. He does not have outbursts of anger. He doesn't have a pendelum of emotions. Instead, he is a very funny, outgoing, successful and determined business man. His personal issues from insmomnia and depression occasionally mean he goes to work in a bad mood. His reaction to certain stresses is also different from mine or others. But overall, he functions normally and successfully. He has a good facade showing.
it's the behind the scenes, when he likes to spend his time alone, doing things solo, and when he gets depressed about something and decides to shut a few close people out. that's the time i want to remind him of why he needs help sometimes. and to not be afraid to ask for it rather than push ppl away. Maybe he is further along iin his healing than i know or can see. but he does not want to be married or in an intimate relationship...but he wants kids even if he adopts them himself. i think his setting up a life of isolation or loneliness is worrisome.
thoughts???
warmest wishes to you all...
cupcake
so the thing is, when i first learned of this, i immediately began to educate myself, and found you guys here. and so i knew to give him time, because he did retreat for a while (i suspect he didn't know what to expect from me or how i'd react; and maybe needed to adjust). i let him know that it wasn't his fault, and i would be here for whatever support he needed. at that time, i somehow expected we would discuss it again and i would learn more, and maybe he was trying to heal.
but i don't think he is. or maybe he is in his own way. we rarely discuss it, but it's to me the pink elephant in the room. i see it as the source of his insomnia, his depression, and a few other things. i don't know if i can tell him that though. He is smart enough and he knows it himself, i know he does. He did tell me that at one point he did see someone for help, not sure if that was an extended period of therapy or what. i think it gave him all the information he wanted though.
Larry---you said the best thing--and I think it is the perfect thing for me to ask him. "What does he need from me?" Shadow is 100% on point when he says the disclosure does place a burden on me. A burden of not knowing what to do or not do; of maintaining his privacy when all around us I see other people going "what the ???". I know the ???, but can't tell them. It's not for me to tell.
After reading here for so long, I have questions. Would it be appropriate if I asked him these questions:
1) do you think about this every day?
2) do you have triggers like i've read about?
3) do you think you've reached the level of healing you want through therapy?
4) Do you want or see yourself ever having a healthy relationship?
5)what can i do as your friend?
I'm not sure if I am entitled to ask these questions. I still cant' link to Ken's article, which I would like to read eventually. Do you think my questions are OK? This guy is very different to me in his handling of his abuse than what I observe here. Or he's good at hiding from me. He does not have outbursts of anger. He doesn't have a pendelum of emotions. Instead, he is a very funny, outgoing, successful and determined business man. His personal issues from insmomnia and depression occasionally mean he goes to work in a bad mood. His reaction to certain stresses is also different from mine or others. But overall, he functions normally and successfully. He has a good facade showing.
it's the behind the scenes, when he likes to spend his time alone, doing things solo, and when he gets depressed about something and decides to shut a few close people out. that's the time i want to remind him of why he needs help sometimes. and to not be afraid to ask for it rather than push ppl away. Maybe he is further along iin his healing than i know or can see. but he does not want to be married or in an intimate relationship...but he wants kids even if he adopts them himself. i think his setting up a life of isolation or loneliness is worrisome.
thoughts???
warmest wishes to you all...
cupcake
roadrunner
Registrant
Cupcake,
The part of the site where Ken's article lives is still down, so that will have to wait a bit. Do you have a copy of Mike Lew's "Victims No Longer"? There's a really good discussion of disclosure there as well.
The way your friend is behaving and viewing things is pretty common among survivors. The facade is something we learned to put up as boys; we thought we were alone and would not be believed, or thought we would be blamed, so it became a matter of absolute priority for us to hide what was happening to us. Also unsurprising is his negative attitude towards marriage and intimate relationships; many survivors find intimacy extremely difficult or suffer from such low self-esteem that they simply cannot imagine themselves as ever being able to establish or maintain such a relationship.
You are right. His willingness to enter a life of isolation and loneliness is worrisome indeed. But only he can take the decisions required in order for him to move forward. That said, your support could be very important to him and may help him to see that he is not as doomed and unworthy as he feels.
This is where your list of questions comes in. I think the most important is no. 5: "What can I do as your friend?" Some of the others he may find uncomfortable or intrusive, or he may not have any idea what the answer would be. In the main, I think if you work on this fifth question you will also see when and if opportunities arise to discuss other issues with him. What he needs to see is that you are a safe confidant in whom he can trust.
Much love,
Larry
The part of the site where Ken's article lives is still down, so that will have to wait a bit. Do you have a copy of Mike Lew's "Victims No Longer"? There's a really good discussion of disclosure there as well.
The way your friend is behaving and viewing things is pretty common among survivors. The facade is something we learned to put up as boys; we thought we were alone and would not be believed, or thought we would be blamed, so it became a matter of absolute priority for us to hide what was happening to us. Also unsurprising is his negative attitude towards marriage and intimate relationships; many survivors find intimacy extremely difficult or suffer from such low self-esteem that they simply cannot imagine themselves as ever being able to establish or maintain such a relationship.
You are right. His willingness to enter a life of isolation and loneliness is worrisome indeed. But only he can take the decisions required in order for him to move forward. That said, your support could be very important to him and may help him to see that he is not as doomed and unworthy as he feels.
This is where your list of questions comes in. I think the most important is no. 5: "What can I do as your friend?" Some of the others he may find uncomfortable or intrusive, or he may not have any idea what the answer would be. In the main, I think if you work on this fifth question you will also see when and if opportunities arise to discuss other issues with him. What he needs to see is that you are a safe confidant in whom he can trust.
Much love,
Larry
Hi Larry and all,
Thank you for your response. I read it when you first posted, and took some time to think about it. You confirmed my instincts and so I will not ask those questions, except the one you recommend. Today was not a typical day, as I ended up spending the entire day with my friend, the first half in some meetings with others, and then the second half we spent alone. It was rather spontaneous because we had planned on all day meetings. So when we both got our afternoon back, we just ran errands etc.
The more I think about this, the more apparent to me how the question of "what does he need from me" has plagued me. I had not planned on asking him today, but somehow I covered it--incompletely. The conversation basically went like this; I was joking with him about something he did and said I would add it to the list of things he did to make me mad, reaching #5 (jokingly of course). And he laughed; I said don't you wanna know what 1-4 on the list are and he said nope, he didn't care. So I took him back briefly to what happened a couple of weeks ago when he was not talking to me. I wasn't mad that he wanted alone time; just mad that (1) he couldn't just tell me he wanted alone time and (2) when I told him by email that his actions were hurtful to me, he did nothing to stop that but compounded it.
The conversation happened quickly with us, but I reminded him how a long time ago he told me that if I wanted or needed something I needed to tell him or let him know. And that was mutual, because I am often left wondering what he needs from me. He agreed this was fair. I didn't probe him further to tell me then what he needed, but that's OK. let him think about it. He had previously admitted that he doesn't want or like to ask for help (a typical guy thing to me but a heightened issue for him of course).
Tellingly though...I asked him about an email I sent to him during all that silence. I said some firm, harsh things. I wanted to know if he had even read it, and what he thought of it. He confirmed what I suspected. He admitted he couldn't read it all at once, that it took him a few days to get through it (it was not that long!) but the words were sharp, concise, and on point. He said it offended him. I apologized but said to him that I wish he would tell me when I make him mad, or offend him, or whatever. I needed to see or hear him get angry. Remember, I said he is so even tempered and easy going. He sort of half laughed and said "you mean you want me to fight with you?" i said no, i dont want to fight with you but I need to know when I make you mad. I tell you if you make me mad, you need to do the same.
And therein was my revelation....not expressing his feelings or anger for fear of the reaction from me.
What do you think of that? And as a follow up to what you wrote above, how do you suggest I let him know how deserving, and WORTHY he really is? I don't know if words are enough to convince him. So what works?
Thanks a million and hope you're doing well.
Cupcake
Thank you for your response. I read it when you first posted, and took some time to think about it. You confirmed my instincts and so I will not ask those questions, except the one you recommend. Today was not a typical day, as I ended up spending the entire day with my friend, the first half in some meetings with others, and then the second half we spent alone. It was rather spontaneous because we had planned on all day meetings. So when we both got our afternoon back, we just ran errands etc.
The more I think about this, the more apparent to me how the question of "what does he need from me" has plagued me. I had not planned on asking him today, but somehow I covered it--incompletely. The conversation basically went like this; I was joking with him about something he did and said I would add it to the list of things he did to make me mad, reaching #5 (jokingly of course). And he laughed; I said don't you wanna know what 1-4 on the list are and he said nope, he didn't care. So I took him back briefly to what happened a couple of weeks ago when he was not talking to me. I wasn't mad that he wanted alone time; just mad that (1) he couldn't just tell me he wanted alone time and (2) when I told him by email that his actions were hurtful to me, he did nothing to stop that but compounded it.
The conversation happened quickly with us, but I reminded him how a long time ago he told me that if I wanted or needed something I needed to tell him or let him know. And that was mutual, because I am often left wondering what he needs from me. He agreed this was fair. I didn't probe him further to tell me then what he needed, but that's OK. let him think about it. He had previously admitted that he doesn't want or like to ask for help (a typical guy thing to me but a heightened issue for him of course).
Tellingly though...I asked him about an email I sent to him during all that silence. I said some firm, harsh things. I wanted to know if he had even read it, and what he thought of it. He confirmed what I suspected. He admitted he couldn't read it all at once, that it took him a few days to get through it (it was not that long!) but the words were sharp, concise, and on point. He said it offended him. I apologized but said to him that I wish he would tell me when I make him mad, or offend him, or whatever. I needed to see or hear him get angry. Remember, I said he is so even tempered and easy going. He sort of half laughed and said "you mean you want me to fight with you?" i said no, i dont want to fight with you but I need to know when I make you mad. I tell you if you make me mad, you need to do the same.
And therein was my revelation....not expressing his feelings or anger for fear of the reaction from me.
What do you think of that? And as a follow up to what you wrote above, how do you suggest I let him know how deserving, and WORTHY he really is? I don't know if words are enough to convince him. So what works?
Thanks a million and hope you're doing well.
Cupcake