Question for SO's-please, no male survivors read :)

Question for SO's-please, no male survivors read :)
L

LadyTheo

Registrant
I am not sure what I am looking for, so please bear with me while I ramble, and hopefully it will make some sort of sense.

Theo and I have been struggling lately. The main issue is our boundaries. I too am a survivor, so it makes it especially hard sometimes for us to both respect each other's boundaries.

Last summer, Theo acted out by surfing the internet for pornagraphic materials, and that was a very trying time for us in our relationship. But in the end I told him that as long as he promises to never do that crap again, that I will stay by his side. About a month ago he came to me saying that he was feeling resentfull of my making him promise to never do that again. I was dumbfounded, because A) I had no clue that he was feeling this way, and B) because I don't feel that I MADE him promise. I told him that if he promised, then I would not leave....and I can see how that put him in a tough situation, but did/do I not have the wright to set those types of limits in our relationship? We were able to get past that somewhat. I apologized for his feeling that way, but did say that I don't feel that I am at fault.
Well, a week ago he comes to me and says that he has been doing some writing in which he has come up with a fictional world that allows him to escape the pressures of daily life (which i understand that need to do), and that it does involve some sexually explicit material. Once again I am dumbfounded. I do not want to tell him that he cannot do this, but yet I don't want to jeopardize my own sense of safety. I recognise that this may be something that he needs to do in order to get farther in the healing process, but I am totally not comfortable with it.
How do I respect his needs/boundaries without jeopardizing (sp?) my own? I am at such a loss in all of this.....This is a big obstacle in our relationship and I have no clue how to get past it. Any help/advise on this would be greatly appreciated.

I hope this made some sort of sense to you all, if not, I do apologize.

Thank you all, and take care,
Lady Theo
 
Hi Lady Theo

First of all, yes, you do have the right to set limits for yourself and what you will accept in a relationship. In terms of deciding what is appropriate for "the relationship" though, that is up to you and theo to do together, and maybe that's what he resents? The idea that you "took over" that process?

I know my boyfriend does this a lot-- I've talked about it in other threads-- he "gives in" in places where I'm not looking for him to give in-- I might be looking for honest discussion or compromise but he just ends it right away by doing/saying whatever it is that he thinks I want. Sometimes I can pick up on this and try to reassure him that I really want to hear his opinion, but sometimes I miss it and think that we've really discussed something-- and then later when the topic comes up again he is resentful.

I think he does this for two reasons--the first is fear of conflict and the second is his own shame/unworthiness which tells him "people don't really care what I feel and do, they just want me to tell them what they want to hear, I'm only good for giving other people what they want..." which means that even when his feelings really do match up to what he's saying, he's still given me what I wanted so he still gets that way. There are actually times he's been mad at me for making him "give in" to what amounts to his honest opinion.

This is not to say that you are at fault for setting boundaries about his acting out or for his feeling this way--or to say that he didn't really want to stop acting out-- just some ideas about what might have been going on with him when he said he resented your making him promise.

Also, there is so much more to the "acting out" process than the act itself--the act is just the last step in a domino effect that starts with very different behaviors and feelings. But in the survivor's mind, this all happens so fast that it collapses on itself and the parts become inseparable. In my boyfriend's case, this meant that he stopped acting out before he was ready to disclose to me about his SA, and he wanted to tell me about the acting out, but didn't because he was convinced that anyone who knew about his acting out behavior would be able to tell that he'd been abused.

For you and theo, this means that theo may be confused about what you expect from him in terms of his promise, and what he can safely share with you. You can't expect him never to think about or feel the desire to act out again--that's something he will have to work out slowly as he finds new places to put his energy. But he may be worried that if he shares other things with you, you'll "know" that he wants to act out, or that you'll be opposed to other behaviors of his because of the ways they relate to the acting out-- and so he may be keeping things from you that he doesn't really need to hide and then feeling bad about that. For my boyfriend, I had to specifically tell him that it was okay with me if he still wanted to or thought about acting out, in fact I wanted him to be honest with me if he was struggling and I would not hold that against him. And honestly, I wasn't really angered or bothered by his struggles when we talked about them this way-- I felt worried a little, but mostly just trusted and happy that he was taking active steps to fight it instead of trying to suppress it.

I hope this helps
SAR
 
Sar,
Thank you for your reply, It did allow me to see some things that I didn't before.
I have told him that I don't expect him to just stop wanting to escape using that route, but that may be something that I need to say to him again. In the beginning he did come to me and tell me when he was having the urges, and updated me on the progress of different ways he was/is using to combat the feelings, but that has slowly tapered off to where he rarely if ever talks to me about it anymore. I never really thought about what you said about his fear that I will over-react or what have you though. I don't think that I did over-react when he came to me before, but he could have percieved that I did, and it took off from there.

Can I ask your opinion on whether or not you think his new means of ecape (using the fantasy world) is a healthy one or not? On the one hand, I do recognise that he is not truly "acting out", but on the other hand I am sooo terrified that his fantasy world will get out of hand and spill over into his "real" life.
I know that it isn't about sex and all that, but I can't help but fear that he will enjoy his fantasy world so much that he will start to expect me to fill the role(s), and if I don't then I will be percieved as "less than". I feel so selfish for even thinking that though. Because this is not about me, it's about his struggles.
I am just so confused about all of this, and I feel so alone. It really sucks.
Thanks for hearing me ramble again,
Lady Theo
 
>>>In the beginning he did come to me and tell me when he was having the urges, and updated me on the progress of different ways he was/is using to combat the feelings, but that has slowly tapered off to where he rarely if ever talks to me about it anymore.

LadyTheo: I find that my partner too swings from close and then starts to move further and further away.. and then we talk and it starts over again. I dont think any of us in our relationships, SA or not, have any kind of a "steady state" - they flux and flow and have to be tuned up from time to time. Thats just the nature of relationships.

As far as his "acting out" - my partner still mastubates to porn sometimes.. prior to us being together and even early on in our relatioship he used to do it every day, sometimes more than once per day. I dont get too worked up about it because I figure a) its tapering off and b) I try to look at it as him having *some* feeling of complete control over part his sex life (which he had stolen from him when he was abused) WITHOUT having to act out with anyone else. My partner kind of looks at masturbation as "practice" - he tries to stay "grounded" and not float into an PTSD state when he is masturbating - as a way to try and get a hold of his zoning out and to desensitize himself.. so he can stay "in the moment" when we are together.

As far as sexual acting out, porn/masturbation/ fantasy, as long as it is not taking over or detrimental to the relationship is not a really bad thing. ALL people in all relationships (SA or not) from time to time have a sexual fantasy life - single or married, we all have that side to us and there's nothing wrong with it!!! It may be asking too much of Theo to NEVER do that kind of thing again... to keep it in control and let you know when he is feeling the urge to run away and use it as a place to hide may be a more workable option?

The problem with the fantasy world/porn/etc. is not looking/fantazising itself (my moral issues against the porn industry notwithstanding). The problem starts when someone resorts to the fantasy world MORE than their partner/relationship and uses it as a way to escape, and it becomes detrimental to building closeness and intimacy. At that point we are looking at that behaviour as any other maladaptive "coping" or addictive behaviour - distancing, isolation, drug and alcohol use, affairs, anger, etc. Any behaviour moves from an effective coping technique to a maladaptive one when it starts to have negative consequences for the user and their family/friends/people in their life.

I often think back to an article Lloydy posted about a year ago saying that Sexual Abuse (or abuse of any kind) resorts to an "intimacy" disorder - That's what we are fighting to have more of in our relationships with a survivor - someone who is more "there" and more "available" sexually, physically, emotionally. So in that way, sexual acting out is no different than alcohol abuse, drug abuse, anger (pushes people away, creates distance, destroys intimacy).

>>>I never really thought about what you said about his fear that I will over-react or what have you though. I don't think that I did over-react when he came to me before, but he could have percieved that I did, and it took off from there.

My partner lives in total DREAD of my anger, of me over reacting. Its a hard line to walk - sometimes you DO have to set limits and the survivor does have to respect those, but sometimes, in my own relationship anyhow my fiance sometimes is in total paralyzing fear of this anger.. sometimes he avoids me and keeps secrets, sometimes he resorts to the "best defence is a good offence" and his fear drives him to be really angry and standoffish and pull away. Expressing limits and boundaries and workign with and through anger is a difficult thing when in a relationship with a survivor - its somethign I've not mastered well yet. And I think its a function of both my explosive, reactive anger, and my partner's hypersensitivity to anger.

>>>Can I ask your opinion on whether or not you think his new means of ecape (using the fantasy world) is a healthy one or not?

As I said - it depends on how much he does it. If its once in awhile - not too bad. The vast majority of guys look at porn (guys are guys after all) and I dont think theres anyone on earth who has not had a sexual fantasy about someone other than their spouse/partner.

>>>On the one hand, I do recognise that he is not truly "acting out", but on the other hand I am sooo terrified that his fantasy world will get out of hand and spill over into his "real" life.
I know that it isn't about sex and all that, but I can't help but fear that he will enjoy his fantasy world so much that he will start to expect me to fill the role(s), and if I don't then I will be percieved as "less than".

LadyTheo - you said that you yourself are a survivor - I think this particular part of the issue may be the part that is "your stuff". What I mean by that is all of our struggles in relationships we all have our own responsibilities and our own issues and our own insecurities that play into our partners issues - the best thing we can all do is to really look at each situation and figure out if the issue or the problem is "MINE or HIS".

In the case of porn/acting out/ex girlfriends/past acting out, etc, for me, this triggers my own insecurities about myself vs. other women. Myself also being a survivor of some pretty awful psychological and verbal abuse by my dad, as well as having my heart smashed a few times by some pretty rotten guys, has made me pretty insecure about my own worthiness and attractiveness to men - including my partner.

I have recently realized a lot of my anxiety about "other women", acting out, his ex girlfriends, acting out-history is MY stuff - my own anxieties and insecurities being triggered by his behaviour. Its my responsibility to work on those insecurities and it is NOT appropriate to try and control my partner's behaviour/thoughts in order to protect myself. Its up to ME to try and make myself feel better so that the "what if he finds someone better, what if I can't compare to his ex-girlfriends-ex-acting -out-partners-women-in-porn- shows-fantasy-life" fear does not result in me trying to control my partner.

I CAN, however, tell him that behaviour x or behaviour y hurts me and hope that he'd cut back on it because of that.. but that does not always happen. That, however, involves making me really vulnerable, opening myself wide up to him and sometimes because of our past history of fighting and not so considerate behaviour I am very afraid to be so open..

however... as I said the best route to deal with this is to let your anxieties about this try to tell you what is YOUR issue that you have to work on, and focus on yourself, rather than trying to control Theo. Working on that will make you feel makes you feel a lot safer, a lot more "in control" and less prone to try and make your issue his problem and his responsibility.

In my case, trying to control NEVER works (VERY stubborn Taurean partner who is hypersensitive to anything smelling remotely of control) and usually winds up in a big big fight!!
 
Lady Theo

PAS makes a good point when she points out that porn as a form of acting out is addictive behavior. With that in mind, I don't think that you should keep track of how much it happens, or even how much it hurts you when it happens, so much as why it happens.

I was told as a kid, that if I did anything and it made me feel pretty, to stop. The "pretty" stuff is BS but you can put a lot of other words in there-- it all means that addiction starts when you say to yourself "When I do this thing/ consume this substance, I am better than I am without it, in a way that I can't be without it..." whether "better" for you means prettier, stronger, in control, smarter, richer, whatever.

My point is that what's very unhealthy for some is not a big deal for others. And what's acceptable to some is not acceptable to others. Just because there may not be anything "unhealthy" about someone's behavior doesn't mean that you have to find it acceptable. You're allowed to have moral objections to healthy behavior-- and you're allowed to have reservations about someone's behavior without bringing morality into it, if that's not an issue for you. But I do think it's important to separate these issues and decide where your objections really lie.

In terms of the fantasy world... the way I see it, you're not talking about the same world in these two situations. Viewing internet porn is a passive act, writing about fantasy is a creative one. The first is an impression and the second is an expression. You can't "express" yourself looking at porn any more than you can get in shape by watching sports. Where is he going to look for material to fill his fantasy world? His own heart and mind, of which you are already a part. Yes, the fake-fantasy porn images are part of his experience as well, but maybe writing them down will help him to sort out his perceptions/expectations?

SAR
 
LadyTheo - I agree that you should respect your own boundaries. If something makes you uncomfortable, you should at least explore and find out why. But it may also be that in all this sexual acting out, there is an attempt on his part to tell you something and this is the only language he knows. After all, he did tell you about it. Perhaps a bit exploration in that direction might help ease the issue and help both of you move forward. Good luck!
 
I wanted to take a moment or two to thank you all for your insight. Things have been so busy with school that I haven't had much of a chance to devote this time, so I apologize for the late response.
I am not really sure where I stand on this issue at this point. Alot of what you all said hit home and it does make since. I don't feel as freaked out or threatened by this fantasy world as I did when I first found out about it, but yet it still feels really awkward.
I do realize that a lot of my fears involved in this is "my stuff", and that has been really hard for me to admit, but I have recognised it now and am going to try to deal with it. Two survivors being in a relationship is so hard sometimes. Trying to figure out what is a legitimate response and what is my past interfering is tedious sometimes. I think you all for allowing me to come here and ask advise in all this. At this point, I need all the help I can get! lol.
Thanks again,
Lady Theo
 
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