Psych Explanation Vs. Suck It Up

Psych Explanation Vs. Suck It Up
C

cogito

Registrant
Hey- I don't know if this is just me, but I get to vacillating between these two ideas:

Idea #1: Physical and psychological abuse within the home, and sexual abuse out side the home are the main causal factors in the problems I've experienced with self-hatred, substance abuse, bad relationships, poor job prospects, etc.
~or~
Idea #2: I really am just a lazy stupid slob, and my selfishness, lack of motivation, irresponsibility, and general no-goodness are the real reasons for my problems.

Honestly--I actually think #2 is the truth. I'm hoping I can convince myself of #1, because it gets me off the hook, and being a lazy irresponsible sonofabitch, there's nothing I like better than gettin off the hook.

Does anyone relate to this?
 
Hi Cognito,
Yes, I can relate. Guess it's what was told to me so often in my youth I tend to believe it and work extra hard to try and disprove it. Doesn't help though.
BT
 
Originally posted by brokentoys:
Doesn't help though.
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I think maybe that says it all, BT. I guess I'm looking ofr what DOES help. At 44 yrs old, #2 has never helped at all. Maybe I need to forget about what I think the truth is, and concentrate on what's going to help the situation. It is so frustrating to know something and not be able to believe it, if that makes any sense.
 
I definitely understand what you're getting at. I've heard it a lot at 12-step meetings, this either/or debate. Either I'm a victim of my past or I just do rotten things.

But what I've found is that when you get right down to it, there is no debate. Just because being abused inspired me to take certain actions, doesn't in any way let me off the hook for those actions. I'm still responsible for every choice I've made -- rotten or not. We all are, really. And ultimately, it's my actions that I am trying to control.

So it's a tough balance. Sometimes it's really just enough to know that I have to "do the next right thing" and not think any more about a harmful impulse beyond that. Then other times I really have to search to understand my destructive impulses. They are so inexplicable to me, I have to know more about them. One of my sponsors advised me to figure out why I want to look for reasons before I go smashing around in the past. If I want to excuse myself for some behavior, he said, then I should understand I can do better than finding an excuse, I can have forgiveness -- the real deal. I can just forgive myself and go on. But if it's to try to make it easier for me not to repeat a behavior, then go ahead and open up the past.

Anyway, thanks for posting your comments. Got me thinking -- which is always a good thing.

Take care.
 
Originally posted by Dan88:
But what I've found is that when you get right down to it, there is no debate. Just because being abused inspired me to take certain actions, doesn't in any way let me off the hook for those actions. I'm still responsible for every choice I've made -- rotten or not. We all are, really. And ultimately, it's my actions that I am trying to control.
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Well said, Dan.

And Cogito, I think you answered your question. "Sucking it up" hasn't really worked so far. In my experience, I think that exploring the underlying reasons to your symptoms - addiction, laziness, etc. - is usually the only way to change them.

I mean, when people tell you to "get over it" or "suck it up" - do you ever want to look at them and say, "Oh yeah! Hey - I never even thought of that! Thanks!" Wouldn't be nice if it were that way? But it just doesn't work that way - for me, at least.

I guess if you look at Dan's analysis above, he sums it up very well. You have to look at why you are the way you are, work on healing your past, decide if you want to be that way anymore, and work on empowering yourself to make better decisions in the future. See? It's that simple! LOL... wish it were.

Keep us posted...
 
cogito,
It's NOT just you. What you are feeling is very common to abuse surivors.
Please read my whole Post before freaking out.

Is it #1 or #2? Well it's Both. But not the way you currently believe it to be.

Reason #1 led to Reason #2. But, I think you have #2 mis-described.
"lazy" & "slob" is actually a "Lack of Motivation" brought on by feeling "stupid" which is really "Lack of Confidence", and your "selfishness" which more likely is your "Attempt to Satisfy Internal Needs by Acquiring External (Materialistic) Things", & "irresponsibility" which may be "Fear of Success" & which supports your incorrect view of self that its your own damn fault anyways, (Which Perps plant in your thinking to begin with), and "general no-goodness" which is "Low Self-Esteem" which is caused by all that other shit plus a lot more you have not even touched on, yet.
Those are the real reasons for your problems. They became your problems After your Perpetrator inflicted IT upon you in the first place.
More than half the Battle it seems, is with our selves.
Blacken
 
The first thing I relate to is the vascillating which, in my case, was between "how could something that - for a moment - felt good be so bad?" and "if MY 12-year old nephew faced what I did I KNOW it would be abuse!".

From the moment of my abuse starting my outlook on life, and people, changed. Trust? Gone. Secrets? Here! Running? Yes - to the bottle, to promiscuous sex, to other drugs. Love of self? Any chance of that, even knowing what it might be, was history!

Now (in my experience-to-date) even in "recovery" from substance abuse, i.e. "the rooms", I was still running from the root cause - namely the sexual abuse. That doesn't mean I can ever drink or use "normally" but I need to look back farther than the first drink or drug, too!
 
Excellent insights! THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I think I can go with the idea that #'s 1 & 2 are not different things. #1 is the explanation for #2! I KNEW that, but the knowledge is still new, and I get back into old thinking habits and seem to forget it really easily. I get in a self-hating mood and it's like I'm a different person.
ANyway, thanks again. It really helps to hear it from so many different people.
I don't know where I'm supposed to go with this new knowledge though. ? . I guess I need right now to just try to hang on to it.
 
Cognito
I recognise that man!

It was ME :eek:

I might have an advantage over you here though, I acknowledged that I'd been abused and needed help - therapy - back in 1998, and I think that you might be newer to the healing process?

I thought EXACTLY that way before 1998, and during the early days of my healing. But the truth slowly emerged.
I wasn't a complete "lazy slob", I was actually a fairly normal kind of guy who sometimes enjoyed a few beers in front of the TV and didn't have massive ambitions.

The idea of the "lazy slob" had a direct connection to the non-existant self-esteem that I had.
Eventually "Idea 1" became my reality, I didn't become that man, I was ALREADY that man locked in "Idea 2" thinking.

Dave
 
Cogito
I guess that what I mean is the point in my life when I said "f**k it, I've just got to do something - anything!"

My abuse finished at 16yo, I was married at 21 and never told a soul until I disclosed to my wife when I was 46yo.
That's the point when I consider I started healing, the day I disclosed and accepted that "kill or cure" I needed help.

I'm now 51yo, and doing OK.
I still have bad days, but nothing compared to the ones I used to have, and nowhere near as frequently.
Dave
 
Originally posted by cogito:
I'm hoping I can convince myself of #1, because it gets me off the hook, and being a lazy irresponsible sonofabitch, there's nothing I like better than gettin off the hook.
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Cogito,

it is not a matter of 'getting off the hook'. There is no reason why it can't be both. Someone who has been abused can still be a selfish, immature pile of sh*t. Maybe one is in reaction to the other, but both can exist at the same time.

There are times when we hear of the 'abuse excuse', for like criminals and such, who kill half their neighborhood and then say, 'but I was abused as a child'. Well, that is sad, and you are still full of sh*t. Because what happened to us in the past does not EXCUSE criminal or antisocial behaviors. We are still held responsible to uphold laws and behave as civil members of society.

Investigate both of your scenarios. I can see part of myself in both. But I certainly don't see accepting the affects the abuse had on me as being 'let off the hook'. Maybe it is just me reading it wrong.

leosha
 
No you read it right Leosha. In fact all these responses are illuminating for me. I think there's a 3rd option, and that's self-acceptance, or at least self-toleration. That's the one I hope to strengthen and bring to the fore, at least get out of this black & white 'it's all my fault/ I am blameless' dichotomy. I yam who I yam. And in many ways I am a victim of circumstance, just like everybody else. No one gets thru unscathed. But I feel like I am held responsible for personality flaws that I can't help, or that I only recently understand I might be able to help, but only with time and effort. It's nothing major--just my social ineptitude.
Reality is too many things to think about. I get dizzy. :confused:
 
there's a 3rd option, and that's self-acceptance
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That's it. Now if we could all just quiet those nasty little negative voices long enough to realize that we're OK just the way we are, wouldn't the world be a whole lot easier.
 
Cogito,

I was very struck by this comment of yours.

Idea #2: I really am just a lazy stupid slob, and my selfishness, lack of motivation, irresponsibility, and general no-goodness are the real reasons for my problems.
Click to expand...
I still think that is what I am sometimes. Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Because if I accept that premise, then I wasn't really abused. Or if I was, it was inconsequential. And I don't have to be a victim. I can just be worthless. Which in some sick way feels better than accepting that I am not a man anymore. Just a scared, stupid kid.

Marc
 
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