problem thoughts (long, sex, trigger)

problem thoughts (long, sex, trigger)
U

unknownsoldier

Registrant
Hello all,
I haven't really posted here before, and I want to say that I really appreciate this site. The support here is amazing, especially to men who feel outside of the rest of the world, and have trouble making stable bonds with people.

I feel for you guys that are really having a hard time over the holidays. I know how that is, its where I was last year. Thanksgiving last year was pretty much the breaking point for me, and I ended up crashing into a serious depression. This year I am lucky, I have some friends that invite people over for Thanksgiving and Christmas, so I wasn't alone, for which I am very grateful.

I am having trouble that it seems like other people have this too, and I don't judge them, but its different when its in your own mind. I feel like the lowest, dirtiest form of life. I've been with women before, but only for the physical sensations, I don't love them. So the other night I was at a bar, and I got together with this guy, we didn't have sex but just made out and stuff. That night it was great, I think I am gay. And the whole thing got my engine revved pretty high, but over the next few days I was thinking about him, but then the fantasies changed to thinking about having sex with my parents, ach one separately, and in the scenaios I had changed from a grown man to a boy. I know my mom had some bad boundries, and she kind of made me her partner for a couple of years when I was adolescent, but she never really did much SA type stuff. My dad did some stuff when I was younger (he's kind of a weirdo, in his own little world) but not as much as I was fantasizing about. So there might be a grain of truth in the thoughts, but they are exaggerated from the reality. I can't stop thinking about this stuff. It makes me feel ill, but also turns me on, and its totally compelling. I've had some thoughts like this before, but I always put them out of my head. I can't stop and I'm hating myself. I've been finding ways to punish myself, but that doesn't help and just makes me feel sicker. I have a therapist, but I haven't been seeing him for that long, but I think that he wouldn't freak out if I told him this, but I don't know if I can say this stuff out loud. It takes me forever to talk about less weird things. Plus what if he did just think I am some sick bastard. Sorry for people who are reading this. I don't know what to do. I'm starting to feel like I felt last year, like I can't make my life work. Like I'm too damaged.

Anyway, you guys take care. It just takes one person who cares and you don't feel so alone, so hang in there.

Jim
 
Jim
we care, because we know.

I have to go out now, but stick around for some good support

Dave
 
Hi Jim... believe me, many of us know where you are right now, just as you know how many people feel here. We are all here to share our experiences in the hope that we all feel less alone. I am glad that you posted. It takes courage, especially when it feels like you are exposing your soul and psyche.

The first time I posted it was also on the theme of fantasies (I hate using that word... I consider them to me more like uncontrollable mental compulsions) and I felt sick to my stomach for days after posting about it.

I have a g/f and the images come during sex and they are always violent male encounters. This makes me feel ill... the fact that I should not be turned on by these things and yet I am. I also know what you mean by the exaggerated... and that it puts doubts in your head about your actual memories. Been there too, Jim. But I think that sometimes, in our minds, because that sexual switch was flipped so early, we are drawn to the images. And maybe, by exaggerating them, we can feel the same humiliations that have seared themselves into our minds as "turn ons" without remembering or feeling the actual feelings of our abuse. Just speculation, but this is something that I have done a lot of thinking about.

I am terrified to have my g/f find out that this is what I think about in order to get off when we're having sex. And I have told my therapist a little of it and my god, if that wasn't the hardest conversation to start! And then to have those words out there... it still makes me feel sick when I really think that someone else knows.

Please PM if you need support. We're all here for you. Honestly. And if you can feel comfortable anywhere, it's here.

-Sean
 
Dave and Sean, thanks for replying. I can't beleive you read that stuff and were willing to "speak" to me. Thank you.

Sean, I really relate to what you said. I think you're right about the switch getting turned on too early, and to weird stuff instead of normal stuff. What you said about not feeling the actual feelings of the abuse is really insightful. I know little kids want their parents to care for them (I hate the word love, can't use it) but the thought that I would have wanted that from either of them makes me sick, so I really can't even think about how it all felt.

Good for you for actually talking to your therapist. That must have taken a lot of courage. Did that help you? Make it less shameful or whatever?

I'm sorry you have to go through this too. You should have been able to just enjoy being with your g/f, and not have to think about this stuff.

I hate the compulsive part of it, its like I'm not even in control of my own mind anymore. I've been walking around like a zombie at work, with these films running in my head the whole time. Its a little better today. I'm really trying to focus on whatever task is in front of me, and not think too much. I remind myself that the little things I'm doing, cleaning my house or making plans with somebody are the things that will make my life better. These thoughts make me want to punish myself, but that just makes me feel worse, more ashamed, and I really can't do much more to mysel physically without starting to do damage. Sorry if that's too messed up. I just really want to get through today without doing anything.
 
Hi again Jim... I'm glad today is a little better. And you are doing well to focus on the day to day and try to stay in the present instead of in your head. That will help.

Hmmm... did talking to my therapist help about this? Sort of. But I am afraid of three things:

1. Every time I tell, I freak that someone else knows about this and can use it against me. (I'm not the paranoid sort, just with this.)
2. That no one will believe me, understand me, or the combination of both. (This is why I haven't told my g/f about the images I need during sex.)
3. That by telling my therapist, she will ask me to stop using them and I will never be able to get off again.

LOL... sorry to be so blunt, but there they are. My ultimate fears of telling anyone about the abuse and the resulting "fantasies." As if the abuse weren't enough, that we all have to suffer with the ramifications and the aftermath of how our minds chose to process the abuse.

PM me anytime. If you couldn't tell, I know where you are coming from. :)

-Sean
 
I wished to say welcome here, i know that you will find it as good place. I am sorry I could not read through your whole post. I have gone through so many post today, and I think emotions, are just overloaded right now. I wish you good luk, and wish you well.

leosha
 
Welcome tole malesuvivor. We understand. You are not alone. You matter to us
 
Jim - Sean
the therapist that runs the group I attend started her career in therapy as a psychosexual therapist, and this problem of unwanted fantasy is something we talk about a lot in the group.

A point she makes to us is that a fantasy is something secret that runs inside our heads, and if we share that fantasy with others - I did it in 1 to 1 and group therapy - then the power of the fantasy diminishes.
And for me it's working, slowly I admit, but working.
Also, the opposite is true. I am replacing my old fantasies with new ones, the kind that I find acceptable to me and not based on acts that were done to me as abuse, and I keep them secret.

If you tell your therapist, the chances are they've heard it all before and won't be shocked, then the secret's out. A good therapist isn't going to tell the world either.

And it's no use anyone telling you to stop either, only you can do that, it's not easy and won't happen overnight, but it's possible and YOU have the power to do it.

Dave
 
Thanks for the welcome, Leosha and MrEdd. I really appreciate it. Since you guys didn't run screaming from my posts, I guess you aren't judging me too harshly.

Sean,
number 2 on your list hits home. Especially about not being understood. I've already had kind of a bad experience with the therapist I just left. When I tried to tell him anthing about my mother, he just got this fixed expression on his face and let my words just go right by him. apparently he could only deal with some of the issues. also he said I was interpreting the things she did as sexual, and that he understood how it would seem that way to me, which is bs, because she is a freak. I quit him, and have a different one now that I already feel better about, I think he's a good guy. But I still fear that he will not understand or not be able to deal, or beleive me about her. You really articulated it clearly.

Also #3 is rather an important concern. :p Its hard to just quit things without havnig some sort of alternative coping mechanism to take its place.

Dave,
dang I can't beleive you shared this stuff in a group. Someone should pin a medal on you. That makes a lot of sense to replace the old pictures with new ones. I've been writing them down. Sometimes that just makes me think about them more, but sometimes it helps to me to get some distance from them, like I'm just an observer and not a participant anymore. Then I can at least control my behavior better.

Thanks for sharing your experince with this.

I have my appt. wednesday, and I got through today pretty well. I think Ive lined up enough activities to keep me busy and not sitting around the house looking for trouble.

Thanks to you all for opening up your own lives a little. It does help to have this understanding from other men. i guess its feeling connected instead of far away from the rest of the world.

Jim
 
Jim,

Welcome. I'm glad you found us, although I'm sorry you need us.

You know, if you had talked to me a few months back, when my repressed memories came to the fore, I'd have agreed with you one hundred percent. The things my abuser made me do, what he made me think, were all warped and colored how I thought of myself my whole life. Even though I didn't remember the particulars of what happened, that, added to all the abuse (emotional, mental) I've taken made me think I was less than nothing. That I was a vile, disgusting person who didn't deserve happiness and DID deserve all the crap that came my way.

Boy, what a difference a few months, good friends, and a great therapist has made!

Jim, we are not what we were made out to be. We are worthy people who had bad things happen to them. No more, no less. We are humans. We are strong. We can heal, and we WILL heal. Never doubt your value. You are valuable.

I love you, my brother. No strings.

Peace,

Scot
 
Scot,
I really appreciate what you said. It soundslike you've come a long way in a short time.

I'd say I love you back, but that kind of thiing freaks me out, so for now I'll say I look forward to getting to know you, your words realy help, and I'll try to be as supportive to you when you need it.

Jim
 
fantasies are a hard thing to face. i just keep telling myself that my therapist has likely heard it all, and that he can only help me if i am open and honest. my fantasies and at times my reality has revolved around animals, so i know what it is like to be turned on by something you wish made you sick. it is hard to live in that confusing mix, but you can. i guess part of it is to realize that there is a line between imaging and living. it has helped me some to realize i can fantasize something, as long as i hold to my morals and dont live it.

there are few fantasies i havent used for motivation over the years. i too have thought of my mother, though i havent my father, but then i'm straight so men dont really do it for me. i think you'll find that you are never alone in any of this. someone, somewhere has always gone through it before.
 
Sean,
Also #3 is rather an important concern. :p Its hard to just quit things without havnig some sort of alternative coping mechanism to take its place.
Click to expand...
Precisely. My therapist has talked about the fear of not having anything to "get me off" anymore and the fear that without these images, I will be left having to actually be present in my body during sex which scares me to death. We've done some work around it recently, but nothing really concrete. She had me do drawings and shit... I always feel stupid when she has me do little kid stuff, but hell... the things that come out of my mind scare the hell out of me.

But I am glad she knows in some way... but she has never asked me to try to stop using the images... I don't know if I'd like it if someone asked me to do that before I was ready.

Just more thoughts... I hope they help.

-Sean
 
Phoster, Good for you for coming to some kind of peace with your fantasies. I hate that our own sexuality is still hostage to what someone did a long time ago. That helps to know that there can be progress. Thanks, brother.

Sean, about being present, sometimes I'm there during sex, and sometimes not. Sometimes I can't stand to feel anything from my skin or body.

I don't like drawing or things like that for therapy, either. Maybe like you said, because of the things that come out. I always want to be able to edit what comes out.

peace,
Jim
 
Hey Jim,
Fantasies are just that ... fantasy. I've had zillions of them. As a kid and teenager, I fantasized about sex with almost everything that moved, including my parents (which was a quick way to lose my hard-on) and a whole lot of things that didn't move. In conversations with other guys over the years, I have come to understand that most guys have fantasies, some more bizarre than others. Although I am sure that SA probably triggers some fantasy stuff, I am fairly certain that most people fantasize, although maybe SA victims feel more guilty about them.
Peace, Andrew
 
Andrew,
yeah. Thanks for saying that. I probably just need to hear that another thousand times and I'll be fine. thanks for responding.

I guess these particular thoughts just bug me because I feel that they were programmed directly into my sexuality by the abuse. My dad sucked on my dick and it felt good, as young as I was. Now I think of that and its an instant hard on. I hate it. I hate that he made me turn on to an image that is shameful to me. I know that this doesn't make me like him, but the feelings are too strong right now, and I act out by hurting myself, and the sexual feelings and the shame and the pain all get wrapped up together. I hate it, and it just seems like more of the same abuse where I can't control what is happening to my body, even though I am the one doing it now. That's why I'm going on and on about it here at this site. I can't deal with this any more. I know that I'm responsible for figuring out how to stop, and I'll figure it out eventually. sorry for the rant.
 
It is amazing what a person can do to themselves when they hate the person they are. One thing that really troubles me is that I am stuck in the same confusing mix. I want to hate the things I did, because I see them as sick, but on another level I miss them. I wish just the thought of having a woman urinate on me would make me sick, but it doesnt. It excites me. I wish I saw the world through the same conventional eyes as what society says I should, but I dont. I wish I hated it when my abuser orally stimulated me, or when I did it to him, but I didnt. I loved every instant, and even understanding the facts doesnt make living with it easier. I know it wasnt my fault, and that it is normal to like sexual contact, but it is hard living, knowing that I didnt just enjoy it. I loved it enough to base my entire life on sex, thirty-eight years of all shapes and forms of it. How does one suddenly not want that? I guess we just keep plugging away, living the best we can; trying not to let it overwhelm us. I keep reminding myself that there is a separation between making love and acting out sexually. I try reminding myself that all that twisted stuff is acting out, not sharing my love. It doesnt help sometimes, and I wonder if I will ever be content and happy in marriage, or if I am eternally doomed to live by denying myself? I wonder if it will ever not be an issue for me? for us? take care Jim. be kind and compasionate to yourself.
 
Jim,

I feel weird and messed up too a lot of the time. Freaky fantasies, hating myself whenever I or anybody else does something good to or for me, feeling guilt, shame, hurting myself, etc. These are all symptoms of abuse.

They did it, we feel the pain.

Eventually, I guess, each of us hopes to get to the point where we aren't beating up on ourselves anymore, can put aside victimhood and get on with our lives.

Its hard but I just kind of fell into starting somewhere and have gone from there. I am kind of in the middle of it having made a lot of progress (after having experienced a great deal of emotional pain) but still having a long way to go.

I used to think that "recovery" was some sort of end-point goal but I've started to see it more as a process. I can't ever erase the abuse but I can, I think, do a lot more in terms of releasing myself from its effects.

I don't suppose that I will ever be perfectly released but I do expect to gradually be able to function in the world in a much more enjoyable and fulfilling way.

Brett
 
So, does a person who hasn't been abused and had a 'normal' upbringing, with good - open sex education and 'normal' relationships have similar fantasies ?
Do they dream of the 'kinky stuff' or the 'degrading acts' such as we do ? And if they do, do they see them in the same way we do ?

We attach guilt and shame to our fantasies because we realise that our fantasies are derived from what we did in an abusive situation, is it the guilt and shame that affect us - or is it the content of the fantasy ?

There are probably millions of people out there enacting their fantasies with willing partners and doing no harm at all. And is it doing any harm if they indulge in 'water sports' or a bit of whipping ? I don't think it does as long as nobody is being forced into it.
And people who do indulge themselves often seem to be cool with it. The TV programmes that document their lifestyles ( Late night British TV is very open and often bares all ! ) show people who do all manner of things without the guilt and shame, and the enjoy it.
I agree that a limit has to be set, a 'moral' limit, and the boylovers, pedo's etc cross those limits - although they would use the same arguments to justify their fantasies when they enact them.

Is having a fantasy about the gorgeous girl that served you in a shop today any worse that a fantasy about giving bj's to strange men ?
As long as it's a fantasy and remains in our head then what's the difference ?

That's the logic of it as I see it, but for me one comes with guilt and shame, and I can see the ancestry going back to my abuse.

And that pisses me off, the abusers still have some hold over me while I have those bj fantasies.

Dave
 
much of this is a matter of perception. it's like masturbation on the other thread you started Dave, it's a problem when we see it as a problem. i'm sure there are many people doing it continually with no damage to thier esteem or life. it becomes a problem when it effects us in negative ways. i guess, realizing this i have made peace with my past to an extent. i dont feel as sick as i once did because i realize that much of it was only wrong because i was telling myself it was. i also realize it is fine to be aroused by whatever does that for me, as long as i realize i dont have to act on it. for example, bestiality turns me on, but that doesnt mean i need to act on it. i dont have to go looking for porn of women and animals, or go fence hopping. i cant change the fact that it excites me, but i can control how i act, if that makes sense.
 
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